Remembrance Sunday

[JUDAS]

The United Kingdom national ceremony is held in London at the Cenotaph on Whitehall and, since 2005, also at the Women's Memorial. Wreaths are laid by the Queen, the Duke of Edinburgh, the Prince of Wales, the Duke of York, the Princess Royal, the Duke of Kent, the Earl of Wessex, and Prince William of Wales; the Prime Minister, leaders of major political parties, the Foreign Secretary, the Commonwealth High Commissioners and representatives from the Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force, the Merchant Navy and fishing fleets and the civilian services.

This forum has many ex and current members of the Armed Forces. Many members have also been affected by the lose of friends and loved ones in war. Some of us have been lucky and never lost someone close to us but still wish to express our respect and gratitude to those who paid the ultimate price.

[smokie36]

:jap:

[Kwasaki]

That was good "Judas " it's nice to think if it were not for people like my dad and his brothers and so many more like them from around the world doing what they did l wonder what the world be like now. l don't think l would of been free to retire in Thailand somehow.

[MSingh]

RIP Heroes.

[Tonto21]

Some 15 years ago my feelings and admiration for those that not only gave there lives got a tune-up and started to include all those left hunted by there past and those who had to endured the horrors around them, and still do!I served, took life, spilt blood, lost friends and comrades to enemy action, I lived with a demon on my back for a number of years, feeling isolated from the civilian world even from my own family. I didn't seek help, I didn't need it...did I?

Thankfully things changed.

This came about by my unit being invited to take part in the commemoration of operation MARKET GARDEN (the capture of Arnham bridge,along with other bridges in 1944) I was lucky enough to be involved and jumped in every year for five years ending with the 50^th anniversary For the first 4 years this involved a non tactical drop into the only DZ from the original drop left open, it's interesting to note that the organizing unit 10 (X) Para, now a TA unit had the honour because they are the only para unit left serving from that operation, and it amazing too that the only original DZ left open was X paras original DZ.

For the first 4 drops it was to most a bit of a jolly, a nice level flight a non-tac drop followed by a bit of a light tab to Arnham bridge, about 15k, jumping with nothing more than your trapping cloths and beer coupons. The following day consisted of a ceremony at the Arnam war graves, (more on the war grave ceremony in a mo) The last drop I did was on the 50^th anniversary, this turned out to be very physical and emotional. This OP was planned to follow the original flight plan and timings, (hopefully no one was waiting on the DZ with ackack) Sounds fun a? Words can not describe what these men must have gone though just to get there. This was no cake and ass party! At jump hight I would have jumped without a frigging cute just to get out of the aircraft, and I wasn't being shoot at. As a matter of interesting, it is said that doing a static-line full battle order descent is equivalent to a 10hour day of hard labour. It felt it, fear takes it out of you!

What stuck me and made me feel very humble was the amount of locals, old and young who came out to welcome us, hundreds, possibly running into a few thousand people genuinely happy to see us, (strange feeling, not the sort of welcome I got as a soldier normally) I very quickly realised that these people had not forgot and passed the memory on to there young. The story of how in September 1944 men gave there lives and sanity in the name of freedom.

The War Grave ceremony! The rows and rows of graves, all so young. What stuck me was the amount of locals there, young and old, and lots of families, all carrying flower and small cross's. The graves were very well kept...........All year round, they are maintained by school children who are each given a grave to look after and learn a little about the history of who's grave they are tending. At a certain point in the ceremony the child who has been looking after a grave for that previous year lays flowers on it along with the child who will be looking after the grave for the next year, it's very moving.

I consider myself, as far as soldiering go's to have got the T shirt, seen the film and eaten the pie but, I'm not ashamed to say it, I struggled to remain composed. As each year came around and I kept getting asked if I wanted to jump, I would say yes, but my head would be screaming NO! Fact is I couldn't handle the war grave ceremony, I didn't turn into a blubber wreck, but my head was shoot away, I couldn't handle these emotions being forced on me.

To me, those men who lost there lives gave more than there lives they gave me my sanity back. By going to the ceremony I think I subconsciously saw that people do care and have compation for others, (a feeling that I did not have for a number of year) Maybe I'm not exsplaning this well, so I'll stop trying! Suffice to say it helped me!

If you ever get the opportunity to attend this grave side ceremony you should, especially if you can't see what all the fuss is about!

On last thing; across from the Market garden cemetery is a small plot, in this small quiet corner are the graves, side by side of the entire crew from a Lancaster bomber, (I think 10 from memory) shot down, the oldest being only, (again from memory) 24 years of age.There but for the grace of God go I!

Lest we forget.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Tonto21

[sbk]

This was tried before but became problematic due to members who could not and would not keep it on topic.

Out of respect for those who have served I will leave it open on the condition that members realize if they pull it in this thread they will see suspensions.

Thanks for your consideration in keeping this thread what it should be.

[JUDAS]

Tonto21. Really don't know what to say, apart from, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us.

[onnut]

RIP and Thank you to all who fought in battles for my freedom

[JUDAS]

I watched an amazing program presented by Jeremy Clarkson recently. It was about some of the men who were awarded the Victoria Cross. Just googled it and found it's actually on youtude. Here's the link to the first part

Highly recommended.

[Mosha]

Judas I think that was prompted by his wife's farther.

I thank my lucky stars that dad suffered an awful injury playing Rugby League. He spent a long time on crutches, I may not have been here bit for that. I have a photo of him where people ask if he was German. A Dutch friend say's I look German. Must be my nose. Thanks to all who kept me free, in both World Wars

[JUDAS]

Indeed it was Mosha and, IIRC Clarkson's wife was not even aware her father was a VC holder until after his death, speaks volumes as to the character of the man.

[Tonto21]

RIP and Thank you to all who fought in battles for my freedom

Yes, there are many who should sit back and understand our thoughts, perhaps the old can teach the young or just point them in the right direction, which we tried to do on other threads. Gob smacked on some attitudes but then l am one of the older ones. Only when my mum and dad passed on that l understood stuff and l wish they talked more.

Transam;You mention some peoples poor attitudes, to the issue of remembrance. Sadly I think remembrance day is going to be marginalized a little bit more year on year, Forgive my ignorance, but is anyone still alive in the UK from WW1? Survivors of WW2 are well into there Autumn years. The big mile stone of the 50^th anniversary has come and gone, and the advertisers/money makers just can't get a good spin out of paying respect to our fallen, (there's no profit in it for them). Our politicians are all for cutting spending on anything thing that doesn't enhance there position or create them more personal wealth.

As far a our youth being told about our heritage and understanding what sacrifices our forefathers gave, it not happening, let alone just understanding what remembrance Sunday is about, and then there the: "No, you can't sell poppy's here, you may offend someone"

A true short story; some time a go, in the UK I had just got back to my house from working, I had a poppy in my shirt, I saw my two teenage girls (twins, about 13 years old at the time) I have a good relationship with them both and we often joke and take the mickey out of each other. That was until one started to laugh at me because I had bought a poppy, "Oh, I see they got you" she said, "they tried to get me but I told the old bloke.......War is wrong" Well! I had a melt down!! We had a long chat that night, I got out the old biscuit tin, full of old photos, the girls had seen these photos many times..............But this time I pointed out the faces of those individuals smiling back..............The one's who will never come home, I talked about my father, his father, and the countless father, sons, daughters and mothers who lost there lives.

The next day after school I meet my daughters in town, the one had reluctantly agreed to apologize to the old poppy guy and both buy and wear a poppy, as long as her sister went with her....and I didn't. I didn't go with but witnessed the whole thing.....................We then went for pizza!

To this day, the one daughter places flowers on a mates grave who is near where she lives, as I now can't get there.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Tonto21

[onnut]

Hi Tonto

What you say may well be right, sadly that is. but what I think is happening, the remembrance Sunday now is not just to pay respect to WW1 troops, but all troops who have fallen in the UKs wars. the UK have fought in no less than 17 wars since the 50s, of course these are only the ones we hear about, the Special forces get sent into all sorts of areas that we would not hear about, so there may well have been many more wars fought during that time. And it is because of this I reckon that remembrance Sunday will continue. lets face it, it is the least we can do for the guys & girls who have given there lives for us.

TA

you must of really upset that bloke to make him say that

[JUDAS]

Tonto21, another great post, you do have a way with words. This time though, I'm more than happy to disagree with you. The Royal British Legion is seeing record sales of poppies, undoubtedly due to the awareness of the public of recent conflicts our Armed Forces are involved with.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/3401165/Record-number-of-poppies-sold-by-Royal-British-Legion.html

[Moonrakers]

This year saw a record sales of poppies, I don't think it is being marginalised at all.

[Cobalt60]

And then you have those that choose to burn a giant poppy in front of the Albert Hall.....what hope is there for us and the UK I wonder.

Ex RAF myself and would not miss rememberance on 11 11 or Battle of britain day 15 -9 if I can help it.

[Kwasaki]

This was tried before but became problematic due to members who could not and would not keep it on topic.

Out of respect for those who have served I will leave it open on the condition that members realize if they pull it in this thread they will see suspensions.

Thanks for your consideration in keeping this thread what it should be.

Thankyou.:jap:

[NALAK]

i made the trip up to Kanchanaburi on 11/11/2010 got there just after 11 due to traffic in BKK i thought there would have been some sort of ceromony being remembernce day but no sign hardly at all, just the 2 of us in the cemetry in fact. i was expecting some thing. i visit war cematories when ever i get chance.

i was privilaged to work with Bill Reid VC and got my lancaster print signed by him. thought about him last week so googled him, past away 2001 but read his story in wikipedia, Bills answer when ever asked was i was more scared of a telling off from the CO than the germans. read his story and see why he really got the VC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Reid_(VC)

amazing generation.

Edited November 14, 2010 by NALAK

[Kwasaki]

" Tonto21 " luv to buy you a beer anytime and have a chat, nothing like daughters to lift your heart.:jap:

Edited November 14, 2010 by Kwasaki

[JUDAS]

i made the trip up to Kanchanaburi on 11/11/2010 got there just after 11 due to traffic in BKK i thought there would have been some sort of ceromony being remembernce day but no sign hardly at all, just the 2 of us in the cemetry in fact. i was expecting some thing. i visit war cematories when ever i get chance.

i was privilaged to work with Bill Reid VC and got my lancaster print signed by him. thought about him last week so googled him, past away 2001 but read his story in wikipedia, Bills answer when ever asked was i was more scared of a telling off from the CO than the germans. read his story and see why he really got the VC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Reid_(VC)

amazing generation.

Yet another VC holder who didn't seem to talk much about it, his wife wasn't even aware of it until after they were married. Must be some truth in the saying, 'It's the quiet ones you have to watch'

[onnut]

Thanks Judas for the link, great story.

[Tonto21]

Hi Tonto

What you say may well be right, sadly that is. but what I think is happening, the remembrance Sunday now is not just to pay respect to WW1 troops, but all troops who have fallen in the UKs wars. the UK have fought in no less than 17 wars since the 50s, of course these are only the ones we hear about, the Special forces get sent into all sorts of areas that we would not hear about, so there may well have been many more wars fought during that time. And it is because of this I reckon that remembrance Sunday will continue. lets face it, it is the least we can do for the guys & girls who have given there lives for us.

TA

you must of really upset that bloke to make him say that

No, we were just fooling around but the guy must have had his exploits firmly fixed in his head. Think that is my point, a guy doing something he didn't want to do and it's always with him in his daily life. I now always try and put myself mentally in someone's position. If l had to eliminate someone l am sure it would be with me for ever. Thankfully l have not been in that position but thats my thoughts.

Sorry guys, T/A, onnut! but am I being a bit thick here, I've read the above over and over, am I the one supposedly upset by T/A's comments? Not at all!

As for my comments about remembrance day being marginalized, I hope your right and I've got that all wrong.

Kawsaki! Beer and a chance to trade funny story's, always up for that, but must warn you! I'm a bit of a light weight in the beer monster department.

[onnut]

Hi Tonto

What you say may well be right, sadly that is. but what I think is happening, the remembrance Sunday now is not just to pay respect to WW1 troops, but all troops who have fallen in the UKs wars. the UK have fought in no less than 17 wars since the 50s, of course these are only the ones we hear about, the Special forces get sent into all sorts of areas that we would not hear about, so there may well have been many more wars fought during that time. And it is because of this I reckon that remembrance Sunday will continue. lets face it, it is the least we can do for the guys & girls who have given there lives for us.

TA

you must of really upset that bloke to make him say that

No, we were just fooling around but the guy must have had his exploits firmly fixed in his head. Think that is my point, a guy doing something he didn't want to do and it's always with him in his daily life. I now always try and put myself mentally in someone's position. If l had to eliminate someone l am sure it would be with me for ever. Thankfully l have not been in that position but thats my thoughts.

Sorry guys, T/A, onnut! but am I being a bit thick here, I've read the above over and over, am I the one supposedly upset by T/A's comments? Not at all!

As for my comments about remembrance day being marginalized, I hope your right and I've got that all wrong.

Kawsaki! Beer and a chance to trade funny story's, always up for that, but must warn you! I'm a bit of a light weight in the beer monster department.

no mate, I was refering to TAs first post where he said he had upset some guy, only for this guy to say he had killed better men then him.

[smokie36]

Spoke to my grandmother today as every year on Remembrance Sunday as its an important day for her.

I remember as a kid the picture which always had pride of place in the lounge of her with her two WAAF friends who served together at Biggin Hill.

For many years I thought she simply enjoyed the picture as it reminded her of her youth and friendships of the time. Only in recent years has she shared with me the hopes and fears for her airmen friends and how she and her friends danced and laughed with men they knew had little chance of a long and happy future.

Even as I write this its hard to comprehend how difficult this was for the young woman I remember smiling and joking in the photos of 1940.

Its a priviledge to listen and be told as I have been over the last few years of the hardships and spirit of the time.

:jap:

Edited November 14, 2010 by smokie36

[dingerbel]

Hello to all who have replied to this thread,

I am Tony Bell, I help to run and organise thr Royal British Legion here in Bangkok and Thailand. If you would like to know more about what we do in Thailand then please pm me and ask. Each year we have a trip to kanchanaburi for ANZAC day, a trip to Malaysia for the Malay emergency and on remembrance sunday we have a ceremony at the British Embasey.

We also have many events throughout the year, this year we have poppy golf in April and November, A childrens Garden party in June on Armed forces day and a cycle challenge from bangkok to Phuket in October.

We are trying to help with the education element of remembrance in Thailand by visiting schools and making presentations with some ex-forces living here in Thailand. This year we are having a poetry competition 'poem for remembrance' which we hope will be contested by the international schools in Bangkok and Pattaya.

Last year the poppy collection did produce a record year of poppy sales here in Thailand, in my region,Bangkok, we collected 115,000THB and overall in Thailand it was over 450,000THB. We have RBL Branches and sub-branches in Pattaya, Bangkok, Korat and Chaing Mai all of which work hard to try and keep the poppy going!

Oh by the way the RBL and the Poppy is 90 Years old this year!

[Beetlejuice]

I darn well know that if it weren't through the selfless actions of our heroic servicemen and their allies during World War 2, I would possibly not be here today. For this I am eternally grateful and deeply respect the memory of those who fought for their lives, their nations and the lives of the descendants.

I believe the last American WW1 veteran died a couple of weeks ago, he was 110 and that the last British WW1 veteran departed last year.

Not sure if there are anymore WW1 veterans still living around the world, but that WW1 is almost passed living memory.

As for WW2, the number of survivors that served in the armed forces are rapidly declining each year, I think the youngest are now in they're early 80s and soon that will be out of living memory.

It is now up to us the descendants to keep the memories alive and passed on to our descendants, because the sufferings and sacrifices our parents and grandparents made on our behalf should never be forgotten or lost into the dustbin of history.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Beetlejuice