Loss Of Face ... Can Someone Tell Me What It Is Really All About ?

[dansat]

Agreed.

Because many of them have the minds of children. When you drop out of school in the 8th grade (or lower) or didn't go at all, you will have the mind of a child. Hence their LOVE for cartoons, hence the live shows with cartoon sound effects, hence not accepting accountability for anything, hence acting irrational when angered or embarrassed, and so on.

This is how children act, not adults.

On the one hand, this is just racist drivel and you're clearly a first-class wanke_r. On the other, thank you for reminding me why I almost never read this website and why it's best to stay as far away as possible.

Why is it anyone can post bad comments about Brits, Germans , Russians or what ever country people are from and nothing is said. But as soon as someone points out a fault with Thai people they are called racist.. Thai people can say whatever they want about farangs no matter how racist it is there is always some farang to come on and defend them and say it must have been a mis-understanding. But if its farangs saying anything bad ( no matter how small ) about Thai's they are racists and should quickly go home becuase they dont love all Thai people. !!

I and many other Farangs who live here would say it is 100% ture what Tokay posted.

Dansat, you've obviously started this as a Thai-bashing thread. Anything that anyone posts that doesn't follow this theme pisses you off, doesn't it? You and tokay should seriously consider getting together for a love-fest of Thai-bashing twits. Then you can bash away with impunity, never having to worry about these evil "defenders of Thailand" whom you so obviously detest.

hahaha Say again ?

WOW i am so sorry i said anything bad about the greatest nation on earth. I didnt mean to offend you.......

By the way in the opening post on the topic can you just point out to me where i was bashing anything Thai ? ... just write the opening post again and just point out to me where i was Thai bashing. I just cant seem to see the words that insult any Thai person or Thailand.... I need the help...

Thank you Khun Berkshire :jap:

[sillyman99]

My main complaint on this thread and many other topics is the arrogance of some people who ALWAYS believe that THEIR way is always better.

Then you go on and tell everyone else how they should react , what they can and cannot say, how they should stick to the topic without wavering, when you're hardly staying on topic yourself, having posted a picture of your girlfriend and called some people neanderthals.

Have another beer Ian.

[Berkshire]

Why is it anyone can post bad comments about Brits, Germans , Russians or what ever country people are from and nothing is said. But as soon as someone points out a fault with Thai people they are called racist.. Thai people can say whatever they want about farangs no matter how racist it is there is always some farang to come on and defend them and say it must have been a mis-understanding. But if its farangs saying anything bad ( no matter how small ) about Thai's they are racists and should quickly go home becuase they dont love all Thai people. !!

I and many other Farangs who live here would say it is 100% ture what Tokay posted.

Dansat, you've obviously started this as a Thai-bashing thread. Anything that anyone posts that doesn't follow this theme pisses you off, doesn't it? You and tokay should seriously consider getting together for a love-fest of Thai-bashing twits. Then you can bash away with impunity, never having to worry about these evil "defenders of Thailand" whom you so obviously detest.

hahaha Say again ?

WOW i am so sorry i said anything bad about the greatest nation on earth. I didnt mean to offend you.......

By the way in the opening post on the topic can you just point out to me where i was bashing anything Thai ? ... just write the opening post again and just point out to me where i was Thai bashing. I just cant seem to see the words that insult any Thai person or Thailand.... I need the help...

Thank you Khun Berkshire :jap:

Man, are you in serious denial or what? Ok, your words from the OP: "Can this really happen to someone over the age of 21 with a brain ?" I think anyone "with a brain" can read into your sarcasm about the Thais. And the fact that you're in 100% agreement with tokay--he of the "one beer short of a six-pack" brigade and a rabid Thai basher--it's just so freakin obvious.

[dansat]

Why is it anyone can post bad comments about Brits, Germans , Russians or what ever country people are from and nothing is said. But as soon as someone points out a fault with Thai people they are called racist.. Thai people can say whatever they want about farangs no matter how racist it is there is always some farang to come on and defend them and say it must have been a mis-understanding. But if its farangs saying anything bad ( no matter how small ) about Thai's they are racists and should quickly go home becuase they dont love all Thai people. !!

I and many other Farangs who live here would say it is 100% ture what Tokay posted.

Dansat, you've obviously started this as a Thai-bashing thread. Anything that anyone posts that doesn't follow this theme pisses you off, doesn't it? You and tokay should seriously consider getting together for a love-fest of Thai-bashing twits. Then you can bash away with impunity, never having to worry about these evil "defenders of Thailand" whom you so obviously detest.

hahaha Say again ?

WOW i am so sorry i said anything bad about the greatest nation on earth. I didnt mean to offend you.......

By the way in the opening post on the topic can you just point out to me where i was bashing anything Thai ? ... just write the opening post again and just point out to me where i was Thai bashing. I just cant seem to see the words that insult any Thai person or Thailand.... I need the help...

Thank you Khun Berkshire :jap:

Man, are you in serious denial or what? Ok, your words from the OP: "Can this really happen to someone over the age of 21 with a brain ?" I think anyone "with a brain" can read into your sarcasm about the Thais. And the fact that you're in 100% agreement with tokay--he of the "one beer short of a six-pack" brigade and a rabid Thai basher--it's just so freakin obvious.

I asked you to point out to me where i said anything bad about Thai people or Thailand. You have failed to do this. So can you please stop accusing me of ' Thai Bashing ' on this topic.

You said ' I think anyone 'with a brain' can read into your sarcasm about the Thais ' .... Well this doesnt say alot for you as you have read wrong.

I am afaird to say you have ' lost face' here Khun Berkshire :jap:

[Murgatroyd]

Of course loss of face occurs in western society... It's just as embarressing to be bawled out by your boss in front of your co workers in the west as it is here in Thailand... (I still find that I lose face when some bright spark comments on my lousy spelling, even though I'm dislexic). The difference is that in the west the issue is usually quickly forgotten, here in Thailand, it remains a problem for years....

I always remember that line in the song by Supertramp : "Called the man a fool, Stripped him of his pride, Every one was laughing up until the day he died..."

Here in Thailand loss of face causes a suprisingly high number of suicides every year. It's a very serious matter.

[Berkshire]

My main complaint on this thread and many other topics is the arrogance of some people who ALWAYS believe that THEIR way is always better.

Then you go on and tell everyone else how they should react , what they can and cannot say, how they should stick to the topic without wavering, when you're hardly staying on topic yourself, having posted a picture of your girlfriend and called some people neanderthals.

Have another beer Ian.

I have to agree with you, Sillyman. Ian always wants to come across as the good guy, so objective and even-keel, always willing to listen and offer advice that the majority can accept. Yet, he also tries to score points with the disgruntled farangs, offering understanding and compassion, even if the basher in question is a certifiable nutcase. I'd like to see him take a stand occasionally against some of these serial complainers, at least defend this country that he has happily chosen to call home.

[SweeneyAgonistes]

Why is it anyone can post bad comments about Brits, Germans , Russians or what ever country people are from and nothing is said. But as soon as someone points out a fault with Thai people they are called racist.. Thai people can say whatever they want about farangs no matter how racist it is there is always some farang to come on and defend them and say it must have been a mis-understanding. But if its farangs saying anything bad ( no matter how small ) about Thai's they are racists and should quickly go home becuase they dont love all Thai people. !!

I and many other Farangs who live here would say it is 100% ture what Tokay posted.

If someone made a post claiming that all Germans were cretinous morons, I would think it racist so I'm afraid that one doesn't wash. If you read the post I quoted and thought it fair comment then you're a cretinous moron yourself, you're a racist, or - and my money's on this - you're both. It's not a matter of pointing out 'faults' with Thailand, it's a matter of making ludicrous - and ludicrously unpleasant - blanket assertions about all Thais, almost always solely on the basis of the poster's half-dozen meetings with his (soon to be regretful) hag-faced internet bride/bar-girl (and, of course, her venal family). Well, and this may come as a surprise to you, that's not exactly a representative selection of the Thai population (in much the same way as the illiterate, sub-fascist oafs who populate this forum are thankfully not representative of their home nations.) In fact, other than stomach-turningly embarrassing moments at ex-pat 'parties' when I've been forced to acknowledge some excessively loud, gold-draped skin-tight monstrosity, I never meet the kinds of people who are described in such detail on Thaivisa. But perhaps I just move in the wrong circles.

I asked you to point out to me where i said anything bad about Thai people or Thailand. You have failed to do this. So can you please stop accusing me of ' Thai Bashing ' on this topic.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really not understand your own words? There is only one way to understand your OP: Thai adults feel loss of face. Only those without a brain feel loss of face. Therefore,Thais do not have a brain. I think a sounder example of the syllogistic form might be: Those who do not understand their own words are imbeciles. Dansat does not understand his own words. Therefore, dansat is an imbecile.

[Berkshire]

Man, are you in serious denial or what? Ok, your words from the OP: "Can this really happen to someone over the age of 21 with a brain ?" I think anyone "with a brain" can read into your sarcasm about the Thais. And the fact that you're in 100% agreement with tokay--he of the "one beer short of a six-pack" brigade and a rabid Thai basher--it's just so freakin obvious.

I asked you to point out to me where i said anything bad about Thai people or Thailand. You have failed to do this. So can you please stop accusing me of ' Thai Bashing ' on this topic.

You said ' I think anyone 'with a brain' can read into your sarcasm about the Thais ' .... Well this doesnt say alot for you as you have read wrong.

I am afaird to say you have ' lost face' here Khun Berkshire :jap:

Ok dansat, I see how you are. You've lost the argument, so you're going to just personally attack me. That's fine. I can live with that. Just stop trying to hide your Thai-bashing. We know what you're about.

[Berkshire]

I asked you to point out to me where i said anything bad about Thai people or Thailand. You have failed to do this. So can you please stop accusing me of ' Thai Bashing ' on this topic.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really not understand your own words? There is only one way to understand your OP: Thai adults feel loss of face. Only those without a brain feel loss of face. Therefore,Thais do not have a brain. I think a sounder example of the syllogistic form might be: Those who do not understand their own words are imbeciles. Dansat does not understand his own words. Therefore, dansat is an imbecile.

Exactly right, Sweeney. This dansat guy is, as you say, either being "deliberately obtuse," or just a complete tool. I think a little of both.

[dansat]

Why is it anyone can post bad comments about Brits, Germans , Russians or what ever country people are from and nothing is said. But as soon as someone points out a fault with Thai people they are called racist.. Thai people can say whatever they want about farangs no matter how racist it is there is always some farang to come on and defend them and say it must have been a mis-understanding. But if its farangs saying anything bad ( no matter how small ) about Thai's they are racists and should quickly go home becuase they dont love all Thai people. !!

I and many other Farangs who live here would say it is 100% ture what Tokay posted.

If someone made a post claiming that all Germans were cretinous morons, I would think it racist so I'm afraid that one doesn't wash. If you read the post I quoted and thought it fair comment then you're a cretinous moron yourself, you're a racist, or - and my money's on this - you're both. It's not a matter of pointing out 'faults' with Thailand, it's a matter of making ludicrous - and ludicrously unpleasant - blanket assertions about all Thais, almost always solely on the basis of the poster's half-dozen meetings with his (soon to be regretful) hag-faced internet bride/bar-girl (and, of course, her venal family). Well, and this may come as a surprise to you, that's not exactly a representative selection of the Thai population (in much the same way as the illiterate, sub-fascist oafs who populate this forum are thankfully not representative of their home nations.) In fact, other than stomach-turningly embarrassing moments at ex-pat 'parties' when I've been forced to acknowledge some excessively loud, gold-draped skin-tight monstrosity, I never meet the kinds of people who are described in such detail on Thaivisa. But perhaps I just move in the wrong circles.

I asked you to point out to me where i said anything bad about Thai people or Thailand. You have failed to do this. So can you please stop accusing me of ' Thai Bashing ' on this topic.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really not understand your own words? There is only one way to understand your OP: Thai adults feel loss of face. Only those without a brain feel loss of face. Therefore,Thais do not have a brain. I think a sounder example of the syllogistic form might be: Those who do not understand their own words are imbeciles. Dansat does not understand his own words. Therefore, dansat is an imbecile.

Wow strong words. Just a few points. I am not married to a Thai girl be it a internet gf or a bar girl or any other Thai Girl. . My wife was born in Argentina Rasied in Singapore to a Argentinan Mother and Brazilian Japanese Father.. So please..... Dont think every Farang who lives in Thailand has a Thai Wife. So i dont no why you are getting so worked up and insulting my non existent Thai Wife. You call me a racist, you dont know me.

Listen i live in Thailand not really by choice but by having a good job here for which i am greatful for. Just because i live here doesnt mean i have to walk around with a T shirt saying ' I love Thailand ' . I dont really take living here seriously because its not my home and it doesnt feel like my home. In 3 -4 years i will be gone. Are Thai people racist towards Farangs...YES 70% i would say ( which is high compared to other counties where i have lived in and been a minority race) Does it really bother me NO. Because i as i said i dont take living in this country seriously.

:jap:

[GooEng]

Most of the time Thais just take advantage of foreigners naivety to get away with things they wouldn't otherwise

absolutely true - i would rephrase slightly to "take advantage of foreigners naivety about being taken advantage of".

in thailand any advantage is an advantage, be it gotten fairly or unfairly. all advantages are exploited and to not make the most of an advantage is seen as stupid and weak.

[sillyman99]

in thailand any advantage is an advantage, be it gotten fairly or unfairly. all advantages are exploited and to not make the most of an advantage is seen as stupid and weak.

Is this why so many financially privileged Farangs travel to Thailand and similar countries to take advantage of financially underprivileged people for their own amusement and gratification, then go on internet Forums telling the world how bad the very people they exploit are ? Is this a way of trying to purge the guilt they feel, I mean, many of the guys that come here for a sex holiday would hardly go home and tell their grandchildren about what they get up to would they ?

So maybe trying to dehumanize the people in some way gives them some self justification for their actions.

[GooEng]

in thailand any advantage is an advantage, be it gotten fairly or unfairly. all advantages are exploited and to not make the most of an advantage is seen as stupid and weak.

Is this why so many financially privileged Farangs travel to Thailand and similar countries to take advantage of financially underprivileged people for their own amusement and gratification, then go on internet Forums telling the world how bad the very people they exploit are ? Is this a way of trying to purge the guilt they feel, I mean, many of the guys that come here for a sex holiday would hardly go home and tell their grandchildren about what they get up to would they ?

So maybe trying to dehumanize the people in some way gives them some self justification for their actions.

i'm not even going there.

your profile id says it all.

[sillyman99]

i'm not even going there.

your profile id says it all.

Care to elaborate on that and Tell me where I'm wrong and what is silly in my post, or does my post strike a little too close to home for you to feel comfortable ? If you can associate yourself with my post, then that's your problem, I can assure you, as I don't know you it's not personal, it's just an observation and generalization.

No need to feel guilty.

[GooEng]

marshmallow anyone? flame grilled burger?

[sarahsbloke]

What's wrong with a sex holiday?

Whenever I went to Torremolinos I was always hoping for sex .... It's what a holiday is for (excluding family holidays of course where there is no chance of sex at all)

Hands up guys, who went on a holiday without a partner, and didn't hope for some sex? ......... nobody! thought so!

[JurgenG]

What's wrong with a sex holiday?

Whenever I went to Torremolinos I was always hoping for sex .... It's what a holiday is for (excluding family holidays of course where there is no chance of sex at all)

Hands up guys, who went on a holiday without a partner, and didn't hope for some sex? ......... nobody! thought so!

You, pervert !

As a friend of mine put it nicely, when you go the beach, you don't bring your own sand. So why take your girlfriend to Thailand ?

[anothertorres]

Loss of face? sure. it's the #1 reason why Thailand will never progress. that and lack of decent education. these peeps don't even know their own history...

Isn't it funny that the stupid people and culture of Thailand able to provided you all the good life, roof over your head, which can not be said of your motherland, the fact that you chose this country over your birth place, although you have a negative view of Thailand and its people, speak volume. It is like a hypocrite that hates the chickens but loves the eggs, and please don't tell us you only have smart people in your motherland.

i have no idea what you are going on about. who hates chickens? that's silly. and don't wink at me either, you're creeping me out

[richieudon]

I fell off my bike drunk the other day. I told my wife a dog walked out in front of me. No loss of face for me!

Most of the village were condemning the dogs actions, I kind of felt good about it, after 22 years on and off in Thailand I'm finally getting used to it...

[Wavefloater]

Here's an example of "losing face" that happened to me about a week ago. I went to my local Bangkok Bank branch to ask about opening a savings account in my name for my 800K Baht as required for a retirement extension. The female clerk said. "No, can't be done". Reason: must have proof of income of 65,000 Baht from your embessy to open account. Gave me a book in English and showed me the requirements for opening the account. In that book it said I could open a savings account by bringing the equivalent of 800K baht into country OR was able to show 65,000 Baht income monthly OR a combination of the two. When I pointed this out to her she still insistedI must have proof of my income from my embessy.

It only took me a few minutes of talking to her to realise that , in fact, she had no idea of what to do to open my account, and she was simply useing the "proof of income" reason as an excuse to "save face" by admiiting she didn't know how to open the account in the first place. If she had to say she didn't know how to open an account in my name she would have "lost face" by saying that, So she hid her ignorance behind the phoney "proof of income" excuse.

So I went to another branch of Bangkok Bank, one that had more experience dealing with Farang customers, and I opened the account I wanted there.

And that's a classic "losing face" Thai situaton...because she didn't really know what to do, to avoid "losing face", she made up a reason for not opening the account.

After 30 years in Thaland, I've learned to recognise the situation.

I had almost the exact same thing happen to me, and eventually it became very clear what was going on.

I wanted to transfer money from my SCB account to one overseas, so I went into the village branch of the bank with what I understood to be the required documents. The first time they told me I needed something else, so I got it and went back a couple of days later. Then I was told that I needed something else...then something else...and so on until it was getting to the point of being ridiculous. I then caught on that nobody in the branch had the foggiest idea how to do this type of transfer, but they wouldn't say so and risk losing face. As a matter of fact, most of the staff I dealt with were extremely confused even by the idea that a foreigner wanted to sell Thai baht and buy another currency. I finally took all the documents I had been accumulating (at their request) and went to a larger branch in a bigger city where the transfer was done in a matter of minutes and requiring only the documents I had originally gone into the village branch with. I think that if I had continued to deal with the village branch, they would have next asked for the results of my latest urine test.

It doesn't seem to matter to a Thai how much someone else suffers or is inconvenienced in the cause of saving face. I can't help but think that a Thai person would choose to let a family member die if he or she had to risk losing face in order to save that person.

[Naam]

Other than Loz's humourous version of it (dark humour), it is an Asian thing, but not unlike embarrasment in western cultures, as others have already said. BUT, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!

Asians do not like to be corrected in any shape or form. It is a culture thing and a form of respect. Respect for others is VERY important in Aisa. And, because there IS a racial, class culture system in Asia, then someone who is determined to be a "superior" can not be questioned. Whatever they say is supposed to be the gospel truth. That is a major cause for problems in the Thai education system. Thais who feel they've been embarrased in public, or even in private, take it VERY personally. They DON'T understand constructive criticism and take it very badly. And, enough so that they will quit an otherwise excellent paying job.

A further problem in business is that Asians always try to be respectful... even when they have to basically lie to whomever they are speaking to. That is why a company will agree with any business proposal even though they have no ability to carry out the agreement.

And, because there are ALWAYS two ways of saying the same thing, it takes a special kind of person to manage the personel in Asian companies. Some westerners NEVER learn that process.

excellent summary Ian. chapeau!

[Naam]

I fell off my bike drunk the other day. I told my wife a dog walked out in front of me. No loss of face for me!

Most of the village were condemning the dogs actions, I kind of felt good about it, after 22 years on and off in Thailand I'm finally getting used to it...

[Lancelot]

I fell off my bike drunk the other day. I told my wife a dog walked out in front of me. No loss of face for me!

Yeah but the dog lost face...