Thai Politicians Urged To Have Morality

[Thai at Heart]

One has to have a shot in the dark, how about some free speech being allowed first, no wounder there's no morality, ya can't say nothin.

And yet, so much is said. Funny that.

There are immoral politicians all over the world. They even exist in countries where you face legal punishment for actions or public disgrace in the media.

If there are no apparent punishment or chances of disgrace for politicians in Thailand, what hope that they are all of a sudden going to become moral?

Are the people simply to ask them nicely to be good, and hey presto they will be good people?

This really is like dealing with children. If you have no way to punish bad behaviour, kids will act badly. It isn't lack of moral standards that have let the country get like this, it is the lack of appropriate and swift sanction for wrongdoing that has caused the problem.

Correct. It's just that the people and the media are the magnets on the Thai moral compass.

And when someone is proven to be corrupt, there is violent rioting to give him amnesty.

Hard to imagine how anyone will feel the need to act with morality and ethics, when the people continue to vote in corrupt representatives, and then decry the moral / ethical for their not 'dealing' with the corrupt guys they voted in more 'expediently' or 'morally'.

It isn't the politician's fault that they are allowed to keep standing.

One only has to remember Banharn's famous quote that went

"Why does it matter if the Prime Minister of Thailand is short? All the deals are done under the table anyway."

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Hard to imagine how anyone will feel the need to act with morality and ethics, when the people continue to vote in corrupt representatives, and then decry the moral / ethical for their not 'dealing' with the corrupt guys they voted in more 'expediently' or 'morally'.

It isn't the politician's fault that they are allowed to keep standing.

One only has to remember Banharn's famous quote that went

"Why does it matter if the Prime Minister of Thailand is short? All the deals are done under the table anyway."

Sorry I'm a bit confused by who/whom you are referring to, when you say "politician's". Do you mean the corrupt politicians Abhisit has been saddled with?

I'll refrain from comment further to avoid misunderstandings based on my - probably incorrect - assumptions.

Regardless, I believe my point (that it's the 'peoples' fault) remains. Especially when the people attack someone who clearly wants transparency, and they base those attacks on situations where he is forced to deal with the results of their actions, in a way that is Obvious to everyone. Obviously unfair, but who's fault is the 'unfairness'? The voters who vote in corrupt representatives? Or the politician who is forced to make concessions to those representatives?

Of course, the correct answer is the former. Of course, if you listen to the media across Thailand, the answer is the latter.

[angmo]

Politicians worldwide need a wake-up call.

Maybe the people should use a new approach. We vote you in. You screw up we vote you out.

You steal - we shoot you.

Next guy might be more careful

Time to take serious action against serious corruption.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Maybe the people should use a new approach. We vote you in. You screw up we vote you out.

I could not agree more.

It would be a superior strategy to the one they normally use: We vote you in. You screw up we vote you in again.

[selftaopath]

One has to have a shot in the dark, how about some free speech being allowed first, no wounder there's no morality, ya can't say nothin.

And yet, so much is said. Funny that.

There are immoral politicians all over the world. They even exist in countries where you face legal punishment for actions or public disgrace in the media.

If there are no apparent punishment or chances of disgrace for politicians in Thailand, what hope that they are all of a sudden going to become moral?

Are the people simply to ask them nicely to be good, and hey presto they will be good people?

This really is like dealing with children. If you have no way to punish bad behaviour, kids will act badly. It isn't lack of moral standards that have let the country get like this, it is the lack of appropriate and swift sanction for wrongdoing that has caused the problem.

Correct. It's just that the people and the media are the magnets on the Thai moral compass.

And when someone is proven to be corrupt, there is violent rioting to give him amnesty.

Hard to imagine how anyone will feel the need to act with morality and ethics, when the people continue to vote in corrupt representatives, and then decry the moral / ethical for their not 'dealing' with the corrupt guys they voted in more 'expediently' or 'morally'.

Lack of Sanctions = LOS

Re: Voting for a politician in LOS

Thai's vote for whoever give them the most Baht. So goes the way of this corrupt country. And the only real concern is "not to look bad" i.e. loose face. What a crock. If one is incompetent/unknowledgable then "thems the facts." Truth is really difficult to find in the "Buddhist" country. If the various entities in LOS teach immorality, parents "could" teach something different. I love the adage: Be- what you want others to become.

[jayboy]

not to be a skeptic but I'd love to compare Paiboon and Pramot 'official' govt salaries to their financial wealth,,, just wondering,,,

kids at Uni in Europe i would bet!!! nice mercedez benzss

You're off target completely with Khun Paiboon who is a shining example of an honest capable Thai public servant who has done several top jobs with distinction.He is married to an equally distinguished honest and capable banker (Khunying Jada).You have in effect identified one of the very few Thai public servants where the paradox you identify isn't an issue.

[Thai at Heart]

Hard to imagine how anyone will feel the need to act with morality and ethics, when the people continue to vote in corrupt representatives, and then decry the moral / ethical for their not 'dealing' with the corrupt guys they voted in more 'expediently' or 'morally'.

It isn't the politician's fault that they are allowed to keep standing.

One only has to remember Banharn's famous quote that went

"Why does it matter if the Prime Minister of Thailand is short? All the deals are done under the table anyway."

Sorry I'm a bit confused by who/whom you are referring to, when you say "politician's". Do you mean the corrupt politicians Abhisit has been saddled with?

I'll refrain from comment further to avoid misunderstandings based on my - probably incorrect - assumptions.

Regardless, I believe my point (that it's the 'peoples' fault) remains. Especially when the people attack someone who clearly wants transparency, and they base those attacks on situations where he is forced to deal with the results of their actions, in a way that is Obvious to everyone. Obviously unfair, but who's fault is the 'unfairness'? The voters who vote in corrupt representatives? Or the politician who is forced to make concessions to those representatives?

Of course, the correct answer is the former. Of course, if you listen to the media across Thailand, the answer is the latter.

Indeed I mean the polticians that Abhisit has been saddled with, along with just about all of them from all sides. There are a few exceptions, Abhisit probably one, and a couple of others who are essentially clean. Are they completely devoid of conflict of interest? Very debatable. But the idea that all politicians are trying to serve the country is miles from the truth in even the most developed democracies. In Thailand? How many?

Forgive me if I am wrong, but a bunch of politicians from various sides were just banned for having shareholdings in various companies they should not. Then the punishment is that they must stand down. But lo and behold, they can stand again? As an analogy in the real world. An accountant steals cash from a company, but the MD actually considers him for the job again?

Yes the people will vote him back, but this is the patronage system of Thailand. Remove him from the ballot is the correct punishment.

As I said, it isn't the politician's fault if the punishment for wrongdoing, is effectively zero.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Yes the people will vote him back, but this is the patronage system of Thailand. Remove him from the ballot is the correct punishment.

As I said, it isn't the politician's fault if the punishment for wrongdoing, is effectively zero.

We agree on your latter sentence. I personally disagree (kind of) with your first sentence. Democracy is all about the people. What appears to be a colossal screwup on the Constitution writers' part, could well be an intentional 'check' on the power of a compromised Court no?

The fact that the corrupt politicians would even CONSIDER running again, let alone the fact that they will almost certainly win in a landslide again...this just proves what many have been saying all along. The people either don't want democracy or - vastly more likely - they're just too (insert correct but offensive to those it's correct for...adjective here) to understand what democracy even means.

Almost certainly the latter. Because they'll vote them in again, and then whine when their representatives are found to be corrupt...again.

It's the people's fault. But that's to be expected. When you have a media like this country has. The amount of time and energy OpEd writers spent trying to demand the government do this or that...if they spent 1/10th of that column space / energy educating the public as to why it's the voters' who must wear the consequences of their actions...if only, sigh....Thailand (and every country, really) would be a far better place.

But of course, ranting and lecturing at government ministers and high court judges is a lot more 'fulfilling'...than giving the public endless Democracy 101 lessons - and a lot less productive.

[Thai at Heart]

Yes the people will vote him back, but this is the patronage system of Thailand. Remove him from the ballot is the correct punishment.

As I said, it isn't the politician's fault if the punishment for wrongdoing, is effectively zero.

We agree on your latter sentence. I personally disagree (kind of) with your first sentence. Democracy is all about the people. What appears to be a colossal screwup on the Constitution writers' part, could well be an intentional 'check' on the power of a compromised Court no?

The fact that the corrupt politicians would even CONSIDER running again, let alone the fact that they will almost certainly win in a landslide again...this just proves what many have been saying all along. The people either don't want democracy or - vastly more likely - they're just too (insert correct but offensive to those it's correct for...adjective here) to understand what democracy even means.

Almost certainly the latter. Because they'll vote them in again, and then whine when their representatives are found to be corrupt...again.

It's the people's fault. But that's to be expected. When you have a media like this country has. The amount of time and energy OpEd writers spent trying to demand the government do this or that...if they spent 1/10th of that column space / energy educating the public as to why it's the voters' who must wear the consequences of their actions...if only, sigh....Thailand (and every country, really) would be a far better place.

But of course, ranting and lecturing at government ministers and high court judges is a lot more 'fulfilling'...than giving the public endless Democracy 101 lessons - and a lot less productive.

Eggs and chickens come to mind.

Regional politics in Thailand is dominated by established family patrons. This is historical reality. These people with the local connections/power benefit personally from being elected on a national level whilst bringing some benefits to their supporters.

The local MP's thumb their nose at these rules knowing that they have control of the local population. If you want to enter national politics, you have to play by the rules, and the rules should prevent you from representing nationally if you can't follow those rules.

If the rules apparently allow proven wrongdoers to continually re-enter the national political scene, change the rules. If not, all this serves to show everyone locally is the power of the local patron supercedes the integrity of national politics, so the people will always support the most powerful local patron irrespective of his integrity.

One step at a time I guess. At least the MPs I mentioned earlier we actually removed and will have to stand again.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Regional politics in Thailand is dominated by established family patrons. This is historical reality. These people with the local connections/power benefit personally from being elected on a national level whilst bringing some benefits to their supporters.

Rats. I have to completely concede this point. My ignorance regarding the in's and out's of what goes on up in those electorates is to blame.

You're right of course, though. I do remember reading something about some Flood Graft scandal. Where it seemed our friend Mr Newin got himself a lazy LION'S share of the bailout money for his province. Which is remarkable, as he's 'banned' from politics 555

But from a purely analytical sense, I can see how those benefiting from his shenanigans would send him through again and again every election. So you're right, it must be 'dealt' with via effective sanction / exclusion.

ugh. I hate being wrong. I've drunked too much. I shall retreat for fear of duplication....

re: Abhisit in other thread. I honest-to-god hope you're right and I'm wrong. It's just....Abhisit isn't the type to strop. Hence my fatalistic leanings...he doesn't seem like a quitter either so hopefully I'm wrong again. night all...

[TAWP]

They are telling a fish to fly...

[TackyToo]

A little late for that bunch.

How about teaching it in school?

It takes two for a Tango! As long as uneducated morons are selleng their votes for 200 Baht,- poeple buy positions in all walks of life without any qualification,this country is simply not ready for any kind democracy.

[Roadman]

Democracy has a reasonable chance in Thailand right now. There are more morally correct people in the main leadership spots (Government, Army and Judicary) than there has been for quite some time. If the Gods were to really smile their blessings on Thailand it would be that the Democrats under Abhisit could pull a stand alone majority at the polls.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Democracy has a reasonable chance in Thailand right now. There are more morally correct people in the main leadership spots (Government, Army and Judicary) than there has been for quite some time. If the Gods were to really smile their blessings on Thailand it would be that the Democrats under Abhisit could pull a stand alone majority at the polls.

I do not share your optimism, but I fervently hope that I am ridiculously wrong and that you are proved comprehensively right.

But you're talking about enough Thais possessing such a high level of advanced political understanding...that they would ignore the entire gamut of print media and vote for what's best for Thailand despite years worth of mainstream media panicked and desperately trying to convince them otherwise?

I fear you gravely underestimate the power of the media, especially one in consensus (largely arrived at via the MOST unacceptable coercion tactics - threats of death if they do not start singing the Red tune). I fear you gravely underestimate the power Evil can wield over Good, in the hopeless position faced by otherwise objective media personnel who have to accept the fact that, even if they would prefer to advocate the pacifist side, if the other guys will destroy them for doing so - and it's a two horse race - they have no choice but to choose Life, even if it makes them nauseous to be seen supporting the thugs. When ONLY one side is doing the coercion, can you blame the media for taking the SAFE option and attacking the side they know will NOT kill them (when the only other option is to attack the side which has made it quite clear they will kill them if they choose that option)?

I knew this was the looming risk, and I've been doing my (humble) best in what surely was always a hopeless attempt to combat the sheer inevitability, but if you think I am talking out of my hat, I assure you I'm on the record for stating this concern months ago:

man I am in Thailand now, so is this going to turn into a nasty fight? or just peaceful demonstration? I don't want airport to get shut down or those emergency curfews and shit....what do you guys think?

I have grave concerns. Illegitimately obtained billions wired offshore and stashed away for a rainy day buys you all kinds of wet weather gear.

It buys you the 'peaceful' protesters....

It buys you the charismatic leaders who incite them to violence and arson...

It buys you filthy shills to spin your terrorism as 'peaceful protests suppressed by killer soldiers'...

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand

It even pays for Australian academics employed at the Australian National University (taxpayer-subsidised, of course) to publish your lies and censor all voices of reason from commenting....

http://asiapacific.a...u.au/newmandala

...and pays for Western liberal portals like The Huffington Post to publish your vitriol and give you censor powers over pesky comments which threaten to spoil your expensive fantasy soup with annoying realities...

http://bannedfromhuf...-amsterdam.html

...and pays for your employees - who happen to be leaders of large political parties - to demand you be granted 'amnesty' (read: "or we'll riot again" whilst spinning your refusal to negotiate with terrorists as "unwilling to reconcile")...

http://www.bangkokpo...-for-mr-thaksin

...pays for your campaign to terrorise the capital with bombings which distract the government into, you know, dealing with terrorism; whilst you surreptitiously attempt to pull the wool over the gullible global media eyes with idiotic rhetoric...

http://www.atimes.co...a/LD02Ae02.html

Before you know it, you have a Thai Deputy PM talking reconciliation and willing to meet an animal Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have described as "a human rights abuser of the worst kind"...in his Dubai luxury hotel fleeing prison sentence for nauseating corruption....to discuss his 'terms' and reconcile.

And mainstream media sources start getting hella nervous so they start hedging their bets and giving you and your employees more and more favourable coverage.

And then all that is left to do is....? A 'peaceful' rally or two? I'm not the one writing the script; merely watching in horror as the unthinkable becomes disturbingly thinkable.

I have grave concerns.

Because this world is full of morans. Who bounce to the sound of clinking coins. Dark days ahead for Thailand....

The other day, my predicted fears crashed into unthinkable reality when a mainstream daily printed "Mr Arisman's" orders for widespread killing of innocents in a respectful and very clear supporting tone. The comments were so vile; outright illegal in fact, I was stupid to quote them I now realise (but I'm still at a loss as to how one adequately shows the level of OMG!...without showing the OMG!...hmm) - it was a word-for-word quoted excerpt and very appropriately moderated out (apologies for that, mods - I did spend some time thinking about whether it was appropriate or not to post the excerpt...I was wrong to do so, they're just too vile to be acceptable - heavens, they are clearly outright illegal, I should really have realised that sorry)

But please take my word for it that they were of the nature that...the fact a mainstream daily was broadcasting them so openly and with such clear deference and respect to Mr (? omg) Arisman...it beggars belief. But yet, it shouldn't be surprising really. Of course this is the inevitable result if there is not enough people willing to stand up to fight for the side that isn't going to kill or injure you if they win or lose...in a fight against a side that follows through on their threats to kill or injure those in the media who don't play to their game-plan, when they win. Or when they lose.

It's a sign of what I fear is the tragic inevitable now. Evil wins this round. Hopefully, the suffering and carnage will not be as immense as I fear it will be. And hopefully Good wins out the next time.

[jayjay0]

I think the government should publish a list of MPs absent from parliamentary meetings after the news every day on every channel,keeping a running total of their absences. Name them and shame them.

We have Wisdom....

Not to rain on your parade but shamming them will not help. You will get yourself a lot of animosity and possibly a visit from immigration.

Perhaps a list of all members showing who was there and was not there and keep a total. If you give credit it will make the negative more acceptable.

[jayjay0]

Today I drove home behind a small van carrying school children of a very young age. I'd estimate a bus full of 8 year olds. A constant stream of litter was thrown out; cartons of drinks, sweet wrappers etc.

The point is that no adult on the van did anything to intervene. So the children have no moral compass; no role model adult. So I witness the young without a sense of morality and an adult in charge of children also without a sense of right and wrong.

That's typical across Thailand. It is a society without morals, professionals without ethics; organisations without standards. Bangkok pubs flaunt the rules and 60 die in the inferno. Same in Pattaya. Death at Siam Paragon as a child falls to its death as there is no balcony rail. The examples are endless.

A friend of mine reckoned that 99% of thais were corrupt. The other one percent were simply awaiting their chance.

How often have you suffered the antics of an out of control child ina restaurant or shopping mall where the parents seem oblivious to appalling tantrum behaviour? It is a common place occurrence. The Thais will not act responsibly with their children neither do they apply a normal level of moral certitude to their own lives.

And where they do approach anything resembling compassionate morality it is bizarre. I witnessed a well dressed Thai at a Loi Kratong celebration point to a single baht in the road, gesturing for the beggar to seize it. There was no inclination to give money or to hand over a meal, but at best there was this strange attempt to do what exactly?

I despair for Thailand. The Thais are their own worst enemy and they do it to themselves. Malaysia streaks ahead; Singapore and Hong Kong operate ina different universe; Burma has the potential to roll back 50 years of stagnation over night; Cambodia is climbing out of genocide; Vietnam has forged ahead and put a War behind it; Laos can blame communism, but what excuse can you find for Thailand?

I would argue none other than it simply implodes. Currently, we have red versus yellow so it couldn't be simpler. We, the much maligned foreigners, couldn't have planned it any better.

Right on, but overall I think Thailand is still cleaner that the Philippines.

Basically I got out of your ramble that you are unhappy with Thailand because it is not like home where you choose not to live.