A Knife To Everyone's Back - Thailand's Political Landscape

[whybother]

buying seats was localised so it would be unfair to compare to the signs which were national. It is easy to say vote buying bought one particular seat and did not influence people outside of that one constituency. Signs placed nationwide or in more than one constituency would affect more than one constiuency.

yes, it is not rocket science when logic is used.

edit to add:

the fact is, however much spin you guys want to try and put on this, the dems had an unfair advantage by breaching EC regulations, none of you can say for sure how it affected results, but it would be fair to say it must have had some effect. now your boys will be disbanded and quite rightly so, hopefully 5 year banning all round, including abhisit.

The hypocrisy of him is clear, he talks about not wanting corruption but was a senior member in a party that breached Ec regulations on at least 3 occasions and now rather than hold their hands up they try to weasel out of it, clean PM, my arse.

The fact is, the Democrats have yet to be found guilty of breaching EC regulations, how ever YOU want to spin it.

And as you say, none of us can say how it affected the results, so why are you so adamant that they got an advantage out of it. They would have had signs out there anyway. How could a sign that is SLIGHTLY smaller than regulation have affected the results in any way?

As to the charges of the illegal donations, that isn't even in court yet, so a) we don't know if it was illegal, and b ) we don't know how the money was used.

But continue to spin away.

[random]

buying seats was localised so it would be unfair to compare to the signs which were national. It is easy to say vote buying bought one particular seat and did not influence people outside of that one constituency. Signs placed nationwide or in more than one constituency would affect more than one constiuency.

yes, it is not rocket science when logic is used.

edit to add:

the fact is, however much spin you guys want to try and put on this, the dems had an unfair advantage by breaching EC regulations, none of you can say for sure how it affected results, but it would be fair to say it must have had some effect. now your boys will be disbanded and quite rightly so, hopefully 5 year banning all round, including abhisit.

The hypocrisy of him is clear, he talks about not wanting corruption but was a senior member in a party that breached Ec regulations on at least 3 occasions and now rather than hold their hands up they try to weasel out of it, clean PM, my arse.

The fact is, the Democrats have yet to be found guilty of breaching EC regulations, how ever YOU want to spin it.

And as you say, none of us can say how it affected the results, so why are you so adamant that they got an advantage out of it. They would have had signs out there anyway. How could a sign that is SLIGHTLY smaller than regulation have affected the results in any way?

As to the charges of the illegal donations, that isn't even in court yet, so a) we don't know if it was illegal, and b ) we don't know how the money was used.

But continue to spin away.

I learned how to 'spin' from the best on the forum. YOU

[whybother]

I learned how to 'spin' from the best on the forum. YOU

You flatter me, but I don't even come close !

But I'm glad to see that you admit to the spin.

Edited November 24, 2010 by whybother

[random]

I learned how to 'spin' from the best on the forum. YOU

You flatter me, but I don't even come close !

But I'm glad to see that you admit to the spin.

you spin so much you have developed your own gravity

[whybother]

I learned how to 'spin' from the best on the forum. YOU

You flatter me, but I don't even come close !

But I'm glad to see that you admit to the spin.

you spin so much you have developed your own gravity

I'm sorry if you consider pointing out some facts as spin.

You are trying to spin irregular sign sizes five years (and 2 elections and a coup) ago into the reason Abhisit is PM today. IMO, that takes it's own type of gravity.

edit: maybe you can help me by pointing out the spin in my posts.

Edited November 24, 2010 by whybother

[random]

I'm sorry if you consider pointing out some facts as spin.

You are trying to spin irregular sign sizes five years (and 2 elections and a coup) ago into the reason Abhisit is PM today. IMO, that takes it's own type of gravity.

edit: maybe you can help me by pointing out the spin in my posts.

sure, the example I show below is not quite true is it?

The fact is, the Democrats have yet to be found guilty of breaching EC regulations, how ever YOU want to spin it.

oh a bit more spin here

I don't really understand your hatred of Abhisit. He's standing up to corrupt politicians

who are the corrupt politicians he is standing up agaisnt, Suthep by any chance ? oh no, he just made him deputy pm despite him having to stand down from parliament and has now re employed him in the same position, is that not spinning on your part, telling us he is standing up to corrupt politicians when the facts show differently.

and do you have any proof for this gem

The PTP and the red shirts show more puppet qualities than Abhisit ever has. Everything that they do has to be checked by Thaksin. Everything that they do is about Thaksin.

hyperbole can be classed a spinning, you have no proof of this, just speculation on your part yet you pass it off as fact, surely this is spinning, you invent a rumour and try to present it as fact. you take their association with him and spin it that everything they do is decided by him.

spin away my friend, just don't critcise others when they do the same, oh, and don't ask others to point things out in your posts unless you are sure they don't exist.

just to help you, from wiki

Spin techniques

The techniques of spin include:

• Selectively presenting facts and quotes that support one's position (cherry picking)
• Non-denial denial
• Phrasing in a way that assumes unproven truths
• Euphemisms to disguise or promote one's agenda
• "Burying bad news": announcing one popular thing at the same time as several unpopular things, hoping that the media will focus on the popular one.

Edited November 24, 2010 by random

[whybother]

^^

The first one is a fact. How is it not true? Your statements make it sound they've already been found guilty. I'm not saying they won't be found guilty, but at this stage it is still very much up in the air.

The second, I'll admit, isn't clear. I believe Abhisit is doing things to reduce and stop corruption. He isn't able to do it in one sweep, or with out the support of some shady characters, but, IMO, it is a huge step forward from some of the alternatives.

The third one - how many statements have you seen from the PTP and red shirt leaders, and Thaksin himself, stating that Thaksin as approved this, or Thaksin wants that leader.

But, I get your point. Anything that anyone says about anything is spin about something. I still don't come close to being the best - you've beaten me hands down just on this thread.

edit: why not ask for something to be pointed out. I wasn't saying it wasn't there, I just didn't know what you meant ... but I get your point now - any post is spin.

Edited November 24, 2010 by whybother

[rubl]

begin removed ...

the fact is, however much spin you guys want to try and put on this, the dems had an unfair advantage by breaching EC regulations, none of you can say for sure how it affected results, but it would be fair to say it must have had some effect. now your boys will be disbanded and quite rightly so, hopefully 5 year banning all round, including abhisit.

The hypocrisy of him is clear, he talks about not wanting corruption but was a senior member in a party that breached Ec regulations on at least 3 occasions and now rather than hold their hands up they try to weasel out of it, clean PM, my arse.

The fact is the Dem's have been accused of breaching EC rules, and two cases are proceeding. The fact is that ONLY when found guilty the Dem's may have had a unfair advantage with too small billboards. The second case is still in too early stage to say much.

The hypocrisy of stating as fact what is not true and accusing others of not wanting to state the full truth is amazing. You let your dislike of PM Abhisit colour all of your posts here it seems.

[Siripon]

A few months ago Apisit demanded a previous deputy Minister of Health from a coalition party resign due to suspicions of corruption.

He insisted both Cabinet members from Poomjaitai and Chart Thai Pattana resign their cabinet seats last week, risking facing the ire of both parties.

As for proof of Thaksin controlling everything in Pheua Maeow, as Pheua Thai is often referred to in the Thai press,

Thaksin phones in to meetings of Pheua Thai very frequently now, telling them what to do,settling disputes. 2 or 3 Pheua Thai MPs resigned recently from the executive board as all power still rests with Thaksin- they are just puppets.

Chalerm himself has said the theme and thrust in the next election campaign will be to bring Thaksin back- he knows that without Thaksin, the party will break up into factions so everything has to be for the boss- to save themselves.

Sombat, a fairly new red leader has it right when he says the red rallies are just top down affairs, the masses just clapping leaders' speeches with little critical thinking going on, the people have to think for themselves- but that's a very far cry from what Thaksin, top down efficiency CEO of Thailand wants.

[random]

^^

The first one is a fact. How is it not true? Your statements make it sound they've already been found guilty. I'm not saying they won't be found guilty, but at this stage it is still very much up in the air.

The second, I'll admit, isn't clear. I believe Abhisit is doing things to reduce and stop corruption. He isn't able to do it in one sweep, or with out the support of some shady characters, but, IMO, it is a huge step forward from some of the alternatives.

The third one - how many statements have you seen from the PTP and red shirt leaders, and Thaksin himself, stating that Thaksin as approved this, or Thaksin wants that leader.

But, I get your point. Anything that anyone says about anything is spin about something. I still don't come close to being the best - you've beaten me hands down just on this thread.

The first one is not true, it may be true in these two matters, but they have been found guilty of breaching EC regulations in the past, the vote buying is an example. You comment clearly states as fact that they have never been found guilty of breaching EC regulations. I guess you mean in these two matters, but what you state as FACT is not a fact.

The second one we agree on, the third one is pure spin from you, you clearly state that EVERYTHING they do has to be approved by Thaksin, I am sure some things they do need to be approved, but is it not spin to suggest that EVERYTHING they do has to be approved by him, in the definitions of spin from wiki I would say this is 100% spin from you.

Anyway lets call it a draw, you still seem to think i spin more judging by your last line, but even that is spin from you

[random]

drama queen, if you want to block me just block me, do you think announcing it to either me or the forum make the slightest difference

:lol:

Edited November 24, 2010 by random

[rubl]

^^

The first one is a fact. How is it not true? Your statements make it sound they've already been found guilty. I'm not saying they won't be found guilty, but at this stage it is still very much up in the air.

The second, I'll admit, isn't clear. I believe Abhisit is doing things to reduce and stop corruption. He isn't able to do it in one sweep, or with out the support of some shady characters, but, IMO, it is a huge step forward from some of the alternatives.

The third one - how many statements have you seen from the PTP and red shirt leaders, and Thaksin himself, stating that Thaksin as approved this, or Thaksin wants that leader.

But, I get your point. Anything that anyone says about anything is spin about something. I still don't come close to being the best - you've beaten me hands down just on this thread.

The first one is not true, it may be true in these two matters, but they have been found guilty of breaching EC regulations in the past, the vote buying is an example. You comment clearly states as fact that they have never been found guilty of breaching EC regulations. I guess you mean in these two matters, but what you state as FACT is not a fact.

The second one we agree on, the third one is pure spin from you, you clearly state that EVERYTHING they do has to be approved by Thaksin, I am sure some things they do need to be approved, but is it not spin to suggest that EVERYTHING they do has to be approved by him, in the definitions of spin from wiki I would say this is 100% spin from you.

Anyway lets call it a draw, you still seem to think i spin more judging by your last line, but even that is spin from you

I wouldn't call this a draw, I wouldn't even call it a random result. It's just funny that someone who likes to STATE facts would try to ridicule a remark of another poster who uses EVERYTHING in a sentence regarding PTP and Thaksin approval. You're right, the PTP MP's don't approval to go to the washroom, ONLY ask permission for ALL other decisions. Since lots of PTP MP's and k. Thaksin have said so THAT SEEMS TO BE A REAL FACT!

[random]

^^

The first one is a fact. How is it not true? Your statements make it sound they've already been found guilty. I'm not saying they won't be found guilty, but at this stage it is still very much up in the air.

The second, I'll admit, isn't clear. I believe Abhisit is doing things to reduce and stop corruption. He isn't able to do it in one sweep, or with out the support of some shady characters, but, IMO, it is a huge step forward from some of the alternatives.

The third one - how many statements have you seen from the PTP and red shirt leaders, and Thaksin himself, stating that Thaksin as approved this, or Thaksin wants that leader.

But, I get your point. Anything that anyone says about anything is spin about something. I still don't come close to being the best - you've beaten me hands down just on this thread.

The first one is not true, it may be true in these two matters, but they have been found guilty of breaching EC regulations in the past, the vote buying is an example. You comment clearly states as fact that they have never been found guilty of breaching EC regulations. I guess you mean in these two matters, but what you state as FACT is not a fact.

The second one we agree on, the third one is pure spin from you, you clearly state that EVERYTHING they do has to be approved by Thaksin, I am sure some things they do need to be approved, but is it not spin to suggest that EVERYTHING they do has to be approved by him, in the definitions of spin from wiki I would say this is 100% spin from you.

Anyway lets call it a draw, you still seem to think i spin more judging by your last line, but even that is spin from you

I wouldn't call this a draw, I wouldn't even call it a random result. It's just funny that someone who likes to STATE facts would try to ridicule a remark of another poster who uses EVERYTHING in a sentence regarding PTP and Thaksin approval. You're right, the PTP MP's don't approval to go to the washroom, ONLY ask permission for ALL other decisions. Since lots of PTP MP's and k. Thaksin have said so THAT SEEMS TO BE A REAL FACT!

so now you start spinning, who mentioned mundane matters such as the washroom, I am sure there are many matters that they don't need approval for that are more serious, I never made the statement that EVERYTHING has to be approved, your buddy asked me to show where he spun, I showed him, he accepted that he we are bith guilty of spinning, now you seem to disagree on his behalf? It is not about ridicule, I never aimed to ridicule, I was asked to show something and only at that point did I provide what was requested by whybother. Now jog on, the matter is closed, I call it a draw as we are both guilty of spinning.

strange

[SomTumTiger]

Great OP/ED that pretty much sums up what we already knew - Same same but different :jap:

[hardy1943]

I must be in one of my lucid dreams. A well written, concise, open minded information packed article by a Nation writer? WOT the..

Indeed, somebody pinch me.

Whatever happens in the coming months, the only real losers will be the ordinary Thai people...... again.

Beg to differ

If Abhist survives the upcoming election Thailand will finally have a chance to clean up the mess they call government.

Lots of talk about education. The one thing that all Thai's should learn i that who they elect makes a big difference.

Where is the difference? Will their income or status change? I think not. Richer will get richer like in any country nowadays. This is not only in Thailand this is the Global fashion nowadays.

[rubl]

I wouldn't call this a draw, I wouldn't even call it a random result. It's just funny that someone who likes to STATE facts would try to ridicule a remark of another poster who uses EVERYTHING in a sentence regarding PTP and Thaksin approval. You're right, the PTP MP's don't approval to go to the washroom, ONLY ask permission for ALL other decisions. Since lots of PTP MP's and k. Thaksin have said so THAT SEEMS TO BE A REAL FACT!

so now you start spinning, who mentioned mundane matters such as the washroom, I am sure there are many matters that they don't need approval for that are more serious, I never made the statement that EVERYTHING has to be approved, your buddy asked me to show where he spun, I showed him, he accepted that he we are bith guilty of spinning, now you seem to disagree on his behalf? It is not about ridicule, I never aimed to ridicule, I was asked to show something and only at that point did I provide what was requested by whybother. Now jog on, the matter is closed, I call it a draw as we are both guilty of spinning.

strange

Spin? Spinning? Me?

You ridicule 'everything' and I just say 'you're right, not everything' and I spin?

The matter is closed, not because it's a draw, or because we're both guilty. It's closed because it start to approach the topic too closely 'A knife in everybodies back ...'

[Thaddeus]

I'm getting dizzy.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science.

It's certainly not.

I am making a point, many on here are quick to point to the wrongdoings of the TRT/PTP etc, however when the shoe is on the other foot they try to defend the indefensible

The shoe has never been on the other foot, no matter how much TRT/PTP would like to pretend that it is. The 'indefensible' is a word more aptly applied to the initial shoe. But all of that is moot, anyway. This isn't a 'great' article, as it's being heralded. It's not even a 'good' article. It fails to acknowledge the realities, which are:

Constitutional Court rules in favour of Democrats, Reds riot because justice for them exists only in court decisions in their favour, Army suppresses riots, Army gets more powerful.

Constitutional Court rules against Democrats, general election is called, Abhisit resigns then realises that ministers cannot be forced to resign (which we all know the Constitution didn't have the foresight to deal with) and returns to the PM's office like one of his predecessors did, Army is forced to remove him with a bloodless coup (due to no legal options left), Army gets more powerful.

Constitutional Court rules against Democrats, general election is called, BJT & PTP and / or other parties form a 'coalition' with enough seats to form government, a government which plans to hand Thaksin amnesty for all past crimes, pardon for any crimes not yet committed, and effectively a severe blow to the monarchy, Royal Thai Army tanks do not concur, Army gets more powerful.

I'm sure there are other possibilities. All of them result in:

THE ARMY GETS MORE POWERFUL.

A good article would have pointed out to the Reds that Abhisit is their best 'chance' of slow improvements, of slow change to the status quo. They don't want slow change, which I understand, but they shouldn't be fooled into thinking they have a shot. They are being fooled this way, and the end result is any rioting they do will result in only one thing: The Army getting more powerful.

[truethailand]

buying seats was localised so it would be unfair to compare to the signs which were national. It is easy to say vote buying bought one particular seat and did not influence people outside of that one constituency. Signs placed nationwide or in more than one constituency would affect more than one constiuency.

yes, it is not rocket science when logic is used.

edit to add:

the fact is, however much spin you guys want to try and put on this, the dems had an unfair advantage by breaching EC regulations, none of you can say for sure how it affected results, but it would be fair to say it must have had some effect. now your boys will be disbanded and quite rightly so, hopefully 5 year banning all round, including abhisit.

The hypocrisy of him is clear, he talks about not wanting corruption but was a senior member in a party that breached Ec regulations on at least 3 occasions and now rather than hold their hands up they try to weasel out of it, clean PM, my arse.

The fact is, the Democrats have yet to be found guilty of breaching EC regulations, how ever YOU want to spin it.

And as you say, none of us can say how it affected the results, so why are you so adamant that they got an advantage out of it. They would have had signs out there anyway. How could a sign that is SLIGHTLY smaller than regulation have affected the results in any way?

As to the charges of the illegal donations, that isn't even in court yet, so a) we don't know if it was illegal, and b ) we don't know how the money was used.

But continue to spin away.

RANDOM' Please take some advice... give up. Keep your beliefs you are not alone. When the change comes and it will come, all the head in the sand forum posters and those with an agenda will be running for the wardrobe, looking for a little fetching red number. Disowning their dem comrades by burning their little plastic hand clappers in their surburban gardens. I and many others understand your reasoning and so do they but they seem to have adopted the Thai trait of burying their heads in the sand when something wont go away. All the talking in the world will stop the inevitable.. just chill RANDOM The meek shall inherit the earth and when we look back in many years time history will not be to kind to those who Govern Thailand at present

[truethailand]

It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science.

It's certainly not.

I am making a point, many on here are quick to point to the wrongdoings of the TRT/PTP etc, however when the shoe is on the other foot they try to defend the indefensible

The shoe has never been on the other foot, no matter how much TRT/PTP would like to pretend that it is. The 'indefensible' is a word more aptly applied to the initial shoe. But all of that is moot, anyway. This isn't a 'great' article, as it's being heralded. It's not even a 'good' article. It fails to acknowledge the realities, which are:

Constitutional Court rules in favour of Democrats, Reds riot because justice for them exists only in court decisions in their favour, Army suppresses riots, Army gets more powerful.

Constitutional Court rules against Democrats, general election is called, Abhisit resigns then realises that ministers cannot be forced to resign (which we all know the Constitution didn't have the foresight to deal with) and returns to the PM's office like one of his predecessors did, Army is forced to remove him with a bloodless coup (due to no legal options left), Army gets more powerful.

Constitutional Court rules against Democrats, general election is called, BJT & PTP and / or other parties form a 'coalition' with enough seats to form government, a government which plans to hand Thaksin amnesty for all past crimes, pardon for any crimes not yet committed, and effectively a severe blow to the monarchy, Royal Thai Army tanks do not concur, Army gets more powerful.

I'm sure there are other possibilities. All of them result in:

THE ARMY GETS MORE POWERFUL.

A good article would have pointed out to the Reds that Abhisit is their best 'chance' of slow improvements, of slow change to the status quo. They don't want slow change, which I understand, but they shouldn't be fooled into thinking they have a shot. They are being fooled this way, and the end result is any rioting they do will result in only one thing: The Army getting more powerful.

Excellent post.. but dont tell the Dem supporters they may have to hide heads in sand again. AS pointed out and history proves when there is a threat to the real power in this country, not all the army , just certain parts of the army, the only way to contain a threat and keep an iron grip on their wealth is too have a coup. Its coming and nobody will stop it.. deny all you wish this is what as happened for many decades.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Excellent post.. but dont tell the Dem supporters they may have to hide heads in sand again. AS pointed out and history proves when there is a threat to the real power in this country, not all the army , just certain parts of the army, the only way to contain a threat and keep an iron grip on their wealth is too have a coup. Its coming and nobody will stop it.. deny all you wish this is what as happened for many decades.

I thank you, and I conceitedly concur that the post is 'excellent'. However, I fear you may have misread it.

The only way a coup can continue to occur is if the people continue to create the kind of climate from which those seeking power by force get their mandate to act.

It's not the Democrat supporters with their heads in the sand imo. The Democrats do not = The Royal Thai Army. The Red Shirts just think they are one and the same, understandably perhaps, but then politics is often not what it seems. Nowhere is that more apparent than in Thailand.

At the end of the day, the people will get what the people deserve - by virtue of apathy or ignorance. This is true in every nation, democratic or not.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

At the end of the day, the people will get what the people deserve - by virtue of apathy or ignorance. This is true in every nation, democratic or not.

I should really clarify that by 'people', of course I'm referring to adults.

Adults of every nation get the kind of government they deserve; by virtue of the ballot box or otherwise.

Their children wear the resultant suffering; on their backs or otherwise.

[truethailand]

Excellent post.. but dont tell the Dem supporters they may have to hide heads in sand again. AS pointed out and history proves when there is a threat to the real power in this country, not all the army , just certain parts of the army, the only way to contain a threat and keep an iron grip on their wealth is too have a coup. Its coming and nobody will stop it.. deny all you wish this is what as happened for many decades.

I thank you, and I conceitedly concur that the post is 'excellent'. However, I fear you may have misread it.

The only way a coup can continue to occur is if the people continue to create the kind of climate from which those seeking power by force get their mandate to act.

It's not the Democrat supporters with their heads in the sand imo. The Democrats do not = The Royal Thai Army. The Red Shirts just think they are one and the same, understandably perhaps, but then politics is often not what it seems. Nowhere is that more apparent than in Thailand.

At the end of the day, the people will get what the people deserve - by virtue of apathy or ignorance. This is true in every nation, democratic or not.

Agree it is easy for the red cause to link the dems with the army. We have all the pieces of the jigsaw but we are not allowed to finish the puzzle. Enough said

[jdinasia]

RANDOM' Please take some advice... give up. Keep your beliefs you are not alone. When the change comes and it will come, all the head in the sand forum posters and those with an agenda will be running for the wardrobe, looking for a little fetching red number. Disowning their dem comrades by burning their little plastic hand clappers in their surburban gardens. I and many others understand your reasoning and so do they but they seem to have adopted the Thai trait of burying their heads in the sand when something wont go away. All the talking in the world will stop the inevitable.. just chill RANDOM The meek shall inherit the earth and when we look back in many years time history will not be to kind to those who Govern Thailand at present

Huh?

For several years now I have been looking for any agenda from the reds other than "Bring Back Thaksin" ... Could you please tell us what the PTP's stand/platform is on anything? They are a relatively strong in numbers opposition party, yet they do nothing. No shadow government pointing out the failures of the current government and proposing changes. No platform. Nothing. The Redsshirts are in even worse disarray than their political front the PTP. New groups of reds have been caught with weapons and have confessed to using them. The leadership is in tatters. The only good thing that can be said is that Sae Daeng is not out there doing his "how to throw a grenade" dance any more.

You suggest that the redshirts will somehow gain control. The only control they ever really had was a result of Thaksin buying up the regional power bosses like Newin etc. I still think if you want to see wich way the wind will blow next you will pay attention to what Newin is doing. Buying up the reional power bosses won't be happening again in the future. There is no leader strong enough for them to follow.The redhirts have shown their colors and that points to them being duped into becoming terrorists, arsonists, insurrectionists and they have been given a clear message. No More!

Back to the case against the Dems. When it is decided we will know more because fielding anyone but Abhisit or Korn will probably lead them into a loss. Abhisit or Korn could lead them to enough of a win to lead the next coalition government. Nobody is really likely to want to be seen in the same spotlight as Jatuporn after his parliamentary immunity dies next week.

Now, Abhisit has suggested that new elections may be forthcoming if there is no violence in the next by-elections. I am guessing that there will be, and I still don't see that a non-red candidate for office will be allowed to safely campaign in about 20% of the country. That's the kind of democracy the reds want.

[gamini]

Thailand is hopelessly divided, more than ever before.

If Abhisit falls and with him the Democratic party, Thailand doesn't lose much but doesn't win either.

But the question is, will his replacement and new Government be any better...or even worse?

LaoPo

It loses one of the most honest and uncorrupted leaders we have ever had

[Buchholz]

Thailand is hopelessly divided, more than ever before.

If Abhisit falls and with him the Democratic party, Thailand doesn't lose much but doesn't win either.

But the question is, will his replacement and new Government be any better...or even worse?

LaoPo

It loses one of the most honest and uncorrupted leaders we have ever had

What about Chalerm as the next potential PM if PTP wrests control? Or Payup Shinawatra is a possibility. He's already got a great campaign slogan and t-shirts.

You don't think they are honest and uncorrupt?

.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Buchholz

[Kered]

If the Democrats survive the court case, I believe he will still be PM after the next election. The current coalition and recent by-elections point to that result.

The red shirts will come out for another large protest following the court decision, at which time the PM will call elections and will get enough coalition seats to stay PM.

If the Democrats get disbanded, and Abhisit is banned, the new democrat party will not be able to find a leader with the quality of Abhisit, and strong enough to hold a democrat led coalition together.

The recent by-elections (or should that be 'buy elections) were held in Dem strongholds anyway so they really give no insight into a General Election, and as for the Dems not finding someone with the qualities of Abhist, well thank god for that, they might find someone with balls to stand up to the army that is controlling abhisit, all i can see in Abhisit is cowardice and other poor qualities, in fact I am ashamed that he was educated in my country, I guess you can take the boy out of Thailand but you can't take Thailand out of the boy, he is as bad, if not worse, than the rest of them.

Many are knocking Abhisit but does anyone have a sensible suggestion as to who is qualified to replace him with the qualities to unite the country and carry it forward in difficult times in addition to retaining the respect and confidence of the International community? Abhisit may not be perfect but I cannot think of anyone who could do a better job.

[LomSak27]

Kered claimed

... to replace him with the qualities to unite the country and carry it forward in difficult times in addition to retaining the respect and confidence of the International community? Abhisit may not be perfect but I cannot think of anyone who could do a better job.

You cannot think of anyone who could have done as good of job as Abhisit? – I look at it another way. I firmly believe you could have put one of 20 or 30 individuals in Abhisit shoes and they would have done as good, or more to the point just as bad.

"Retaining the respect and confidence of the International community" The international community gran jies PM Abhisit ... a lot!

[Kered]

Kered claimed

... to replace him with the qualities to unite the country and carry it forward in difficult times in addition to retaining the respect and confidence of the International community? Abhisit may not be perfect but I cannot think of anyone who could do a better job.

You cannot think of anyone who could have done as good of job as Abhisit? – I look at it another way. I firmly believe you could have put one of 20 or 30 individuals in Abhisit shoes and they would have done as good, or more to the point just as bad.

"Retaining the respect and confidence of the International community" The international community gran jies PM Abhisit ... a lot!

It is not enough to be as good, you make the point that you need better, what about the 20-30 names that you would support, even 2-3 would be interesting

[animatic]

Well one way to look at this argument is:

If Dems are the oldest party how many coups happened against them?

How many occurred during unstable governments that had

wrested power from them?"

It seems to typically be after a political power play, economic meltdown,

or because of the instability of the government that followed a power play,

that coups happened.

That said, the Thai economy is doing much better that much of the world right now,

Considering the coalition conditions, it's fractions but functional not actually unstable.

And the TRT/PPP have devolved to an inept PTP and a power play only benefits them,

if they can pull it off, and after the non-fall of the gov, last spring, this seems to break the historic pattern.

Edited November 25, 2010 by animatic