WikiLeaks alleged Russia bribed Bout witnesses

[katasyd]

I am pretty sure that it has not been decided if he will be charged with espionage, or not. What you read was probably just speculation, by someone who was guessing and may or may not have known what he/she was talking about.

A simple google search with the words 'espionage Julian assange' will link you to many stories on why they can't prosecute.

http://www.newsy.com...-espionage-act/

http://www.thirdage....-law_11-30-2010

It even states, if wikileaks gets charges with espionage then so should the New York times as they published the same leaks.

The 1st amendment has compromised that channel of investigation.

Edit: If they can't charge him, let's make up a law that can.

http://www.thestatecolumn.com/articles/sens-ensign-lieberman-brown-propose-anti-leak-bill/

Edited December 5, 2010 by katasyd

[TAWP]

Wikileaks have not carried out any espionage so anyone that thinks they can be charged for it needs to brush up on their law degree...

[hanuman1]

Interesting that the reference to WWI & WWII comes up. In both cases, the USA had adopted insular position. The US public didn't want to get involved. The wikileaks is going to give further emphasis to the growing US isolationist movement, a disengagement and pull back. Spme will welcome this. However, once shipping lanes become choked as the USN departs, once struggling nations collapse without US aid and support and once SE Asia loses the benefit of the US counterbalance to Chinese expansionism, people will soon go back to the pleas of help us, help us. The USA can easily throw up an economic wall and get by. As long as it has Canada as its largest trading partner, supplier of resources and energy, it really doesn't have the same problems as everyone else. Iran supplies 18% of China's oil. Let China bribe the Iranians. The EU needs Iran's oil, let them kiss the mullahs posteriors. The EU and Russia suffer the burden of Taliban opium, let them deal with it. Russia and China have their Islamic fundamentalists on their borders, let them deal with it. It's time the USAA pulled back and let the rest of the world deal with the problems for a change. Instead of providing the funding to turn the battle against AIDs in Africa, the US can take that money and pay down its debt. Instead of financing the malaria programs in Thailand, the USA can take that money and pay for the medical care of its citizens. Instead of trying to keep stability in Pakistan, let the Pakistanis play with their nukes and launch against India. When the fallout lands in Thailand and in the EU, let the Chinese and Russians respond.

Hi

I usually agree with most of what you post, but if you think the government of the US - and of any other country - gives a single cent (be it directly or indirectly, short or long term) to any other country out of anything other than self interest, you have misguided views on the fundamentals of foreign policy in general.

There are no Mr Nice Guys in global diplomacy. There are just countries trying to get/stay ahead. Pretty natural, really.

Cheers

Edited December 5, 2010 by hanuman1

[Ulysses G.]

The 1st amendment has compromised that channel of investigation.

Not true. The first amendment does not apply to documents that are acquired illegally or which could be used to damage national defense. .

If they do decide to bring a case, US prosecutors today would likely charge Assange or WikiLeaks with violations of the Espionage Act, a broad 1917 law.

The language of this statute is sweeping. On its face it prohibits any person from communicating to anyone not authorized to receive it “any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States.”

[Ulysses G.]

Interesting that the reference to WWI & WWII comes up. In both cases, the USA had adopted insular position. The US public didn't want to get involved. The wikileaks is going to give further emphasis to the growing US isolationist movement, a disengagement and pull back. Spme will welcome this. However, once shipping lanes become choked as the USN departs, once struggling nations collapse without US aid and support and once SE Asia loses the benefit of the US counterbalance to Chinese expansionism, people will soon go back to the pleas of help us, help us. The USA can easily throw up an economic wall and get by. As long as it has Canada as its largest trading partner, supplier of resources and energy, it really doesn't have the same problems as everyone else. Iran supplies 18% of China's oil. Let China bribe the Iranians. The EU needs Iran's oil, let them kiss the mullahs posteriors. The EU and Russia suffer the burden of Taliban opium, let them deal with it. Russia and China have their Islamic fundamentalists on their borders, let them deal with it. It's time the USAA pulled back and let the rest of the world deal with the problems for a change. Instead of providing the funding to turn the battle against AIDs in Africa, the US can take that money and pay down its debt. Instead of financing the malaria programs in Thailand, the USA can take that money and pay for the medical care of its citizens. Instead of trying to keep stability in Pakistan, let the Pakistanis play with their nukes and launch against India. When the fallout lands in Thailand and in the EU, let the Chinese and Russians respond.

...if you think the government of the US - and of any other country - gives a single cent (be it directly or indirectly, short or long term) to any other country out of anything other than self interest, you have misguided views on the fundamentals of foreign policy in general.

There are no Mr Nice Guys in global diplomacy...

You might be right, but that does not mean that one country's self interest can not correlate with the self interests of other countries and make the world a better place. Have you ever heard of the Marshall Plan?

[hanuman1]

Interesting that the reference to WWI & WWII comes up. In both cases, the USA had adopted insular position. The US public didn't want to get involved. The wikileaks is going to give further emphasis to the growing US isolationist movement, a disengagement and pull back. Spme will welcome this. However, once shipping lanes become choked as the USN departs, once struggling nations collapse without US aid and support and once SE Asia loses the benefit of the US counterbalance to Chinese expansionism, people will soon go back to the pleas of help us, help us. The USA can easily throw up an economic wall and get by. As long as it has Canada as its largest trading partner, supplier of resources and energy, it really doesn't have the same problems as everyone else. Iran supplies 18% of China's oil. Let China bribe the Iranians. The EU needs Iran's oil, let them kiss the mullahs posteriors. The EU and Russia suffer the burden of Taliban opium, let them deal with it. Russia and China have their Islamic fundamentalists on their borders, let them deal with it. It's time the USAA pulled back and let the rest of the world deal with the problems for a change. Instead of providing the funding to turn the battle against AIDs in Africa, the US can take that money and pay down its debt. Instead of financing the malaria programs in Thailand, the USA can take that money and pay for the medical care of its citizens. Instead of trying to keep stability in Pakistan, let the Pakistanis play with their nukes and launch against India. When the fallout lands in Thailand and in the EU, let the Chinese and Russians respond.

...if you think the government of the US - and of any other country - gives a single cent (be it directly or indirectly, short or long term) to any other country out of anything other than self interest, you have misguided views on the fundamentals of foreign policy in general.

There are no Mr Nice Guys in global diplomacy...

You might be right, but that does not mean that one country's self interest can not correlate with the self interests of other countries and make the world a better place. Have you ever heard of the Marshall Plan?

Haven't heard of the Marshall Plan, but of course your main point is correct. It's just that portraying a country's foreign policy as being in some way altruistic makes no sense whatsoever.

[Wallaby]

I hear today in the US that there is in fact real concern that he cannot be charged because of the first amendment (I have no idea what that is). On the news here in Australia it seems the best the US govt can do at the moment is to pass new laws to stop the dissemination of the leaks.

I doubt he could be charged with anything he did BEFORE the laws were passed but then again, this is the US govt and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to make it retrospective and charge him.

Also from what I'm getting from news media here is that the charges against him in Sweden aren't too much to worry about. They have an arrest warrant out for 'questioning'. Jeez what is that all about. Seems the girls involved may not be very credible according to some reports.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/swedens-justice-system-may-become-a-laughing-stock-over-the-rape-charges-against-wikileaks-figurehead-julian-assange/story-e6freon6-1225965652205

[Deeral]

apparently the next lot is going to concern banks....can't wait!

[katasyd]

The 1st amendment has compromised that channel of investigation.

Not true. The first amendment does not apply to documents that are acquired illegally or which could be used to damage national defense. .

If they do decide to bring a case, US prosecutors today would likely charge Assange or WikiLeaks with violations of the Espionage Act, a broad 1917 law.

The language of this statute is sweeping. On its face it prohibits any person from communicating to anyone not authorized to receive it "any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States."

Obviously you didn't click my links.

Nothing you posted here has nothing referencing the first amendment and the espionage act.

Daniel Ellsberg case is being mentioned in the media along with this case and it's similarities.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1871.html

USA should just accept that the truth is out there but also i think the guy who stole the material should answer to the courts, not Assange.

I have always believed, 'Don't shoot the messenger'

[Ulysses G.]

Yes I did and there was nothing definitive there,

The closest the high court has come to ruling on this issue may have been the famous 1971 Pentagon Papers case, in which justices rejected a Nixon administration plea that they stop the New York Times and the Washington Post from printing a leaked top secret study of the history of US policy in Vietnam.

It was a landmark ruling in regards to US press freedoms. But what the ruling rejected was the government's efforts to enjoin publication. A majority of justices appeared to indicate that it would have been possible for the administration to prosecute the two big US papers after they had printed the material. (Many of the judges weighed in with separate opinions, so it's not entirely clear what they would have agreed upon in regards to this particular issue.)http://news.yahoo.co...ts_csm/347246_1

In other words, is it possible to charge Assange with espionage despite the first amendment. .

Edited December 5, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[LaoPo]

USA will have to assassinate him for this diplomatic problem to go away.

It is too late for that, but charging him with espionage would be fair and just.

If they would hang all Diplomats , spying around the world, they would have to close all Embassies.

LaoPo

[metisdead]

Off topic posts removed from view.

[Piengrudee]

Unlike Germans, Russian Farang does not rate high in Thailand.

[geriatrickid]

I usually agree with most of what you post, but if you think the government of the US - and of any other country - gives a single cent (be it directly or indirectly, short or long term) to any other country out of anything other than self interest, you have misguided views on the fundamentals of foreign policy in general.

There are no Mr Nice Guys in global diplomacy. There are just countries trying to get/stay ahead. Pretty natural, really.

Cheers

I actually believe that sometimes governments do commit to causes and projects for more than self interest. It is not a usual occurrence, but it does happen. Yes, governments usually act in their own interests but sometimes they make a big positive difference. Often this decision comes about because the people want something to be done or there is an overwhelming sense of responsibility to humanity. Look at the malaria research projects in Thailand. Japan, Germany, Sweden and U.S. funding. There is nothing to be gained for their resepctive national economies with that. Nor is there anything to be gained when Norway funds nutrition projects.

The most recent example comes from the man everyone loves to hate;

In a recent interview Bono the singer spoke of how former president Bush took charge of the issue of funding AIDS treatment and prevention in Africa.. “Even people who are snide and snarky about the United States of America have to admit that millions and millions of lives have been saved by American taxpayers,” There was no tangible benefit to the USA aside from goodwill and even that is questionable when one reads of the attitudes expressed by some national leaders such as those in Uganda and South Africa. However, George Bush will be remembered 50 years from now as the man that changed the tide in Africa from one of despair to one of hope. (Yes, there are lots of negatives to remember about the guy and I can name a few, but the AIDS funding which also translated into malaria funding was a watershed moment in public health policy.)

Governments sometimes do express the sentiments of the people that elected them. It's one of the saving graces of democracies.

[Piengrudee]

Bribe is the daily bread & butter of Thailand.

[sydneyjed]

No not banks the next round of documents reveal where strategic oil/gas/power instulations have been targetted as vunerable by the yanks!!Thanks for omiiting my posts by the way...Thought only CRES did that(ha ha!)

[TAWP]

Well, "List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked" is interesting...since is is a list of places (often not very specific) that embassies around the globe find vital to the US.

For example:

* Cobalt mine in Congo

* Anti-snake venom factory in Australia

* Insulin plant in Denmark

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11923766

Over-scoping 'national security' a smidgen...

[LaoPo]

Well, "List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked" is interesting...since is is a list of places (often not very specific) that embassies around the globe find vital to the US.

For example:

* Cobalt mine in Congo

* Anti-snake venom factory in Australia

* Insulin plant in Denmark

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-11923766

Over-scoping 'national security' a smidgen...

...and don't forget the 2 locations of transatlantic glassfiber cables entering the shoreline in a certain country vital information...

As if nuclear powerplants all over the world aren't vital information, to be kept secret....

LaoPo

[sydneyjed]

Julian has now been branded a 'cyber terrorist' by an American senator today...They're not happy on this one..not happy at all!!!

[Deeral]

He's simply cut thru the spin and embarrassed diplomats around the world - who collectively are too old and out of touch to realise - until now - how easily their emails etc could be leaked.

He's embarrassed them and now they are out to get him.

I just hope he's got some super-stuff to publish after he's been convicted on some jumped up charge!

Edited December 7, 2010 by Deeral

[sydneyjed]

He's simply cut thru the spin and embarrassed diplomats around the world - who collectively are too old and out of touch to realise - until now - how easily their emails etc could be leaked.

He's embarrassed them and now they are out to get him.

I just hope he's got some super-stuff to publish after he's been convicted on some jumped up charge!

According to the latest news on the BBC he's turned himself in and been arrested accordingly to his lawyer!!

[Deeral]

He's simply cut thru the spin and embarrassed diplomats around the world - who collectively are too old and out of touch to realise - until now - how easily their emails etc could be leaked.

He's embarrassed them and now they are out to get him.

I just hope he's got some super-stuff to publish after he's been convicted on some jumped up charge!

According to the latest news on the BBC he's turned himself in and been arrested accordingly to his lawyer!!

So what is the connection with or inference you are trying to draw from my post?

[Deeral]

Julian has now been branded a 'cyber terrorist' by an American senator today...They're not happy on this one..not happy at all!!!

...and that's just what it is - another "label"

Maybe he could counter-sue - the US govt .....for being "labelous"???

[sydneyjed]

Julian has now been branded a 'cyber terrorist' by an American senator today...They're not happy on this one..not happy at all!!!

...and that's just what it is - another "label"

Maybe he could counter-sue - the US govt .....for being "labelous"???

Just about to appear in Westminster magistrates court..and applying for bail!!Will they give it to him??

Edited December 7, 2010 by sydneyjed

[sydneyjed]

His lawyer has stated that the female Swedish prosecuter who initiated the charges against him has ignored time and time again to send any details or copies of the actual charges against Assange and is for want of a better word 'uncontactable'...Extradinary considering the charges warrented his name going straight to the top of Interpol's most wanted list as a 'person of interest'!!

Edited December 7, 2010 by sydneyjed

[Ulysses G.]

Julian has now been branded a 'cyber terrorist' by an American senator today...They're not happy on this one..not happy at all!!!

...and that's just what it is - another "label"

Maybe he could counter-sue - the US govt .....for being "labelous"???

Maybe. He certainly could not sue them for libel as what they said is accurate.

[Ulysses G.]

His lawyer has stated that the female Swedish prosecuter who initiated the charges against him has ignored time and time again to send any details or copies of the actual charges against Assange and is for want of a better word 'uncontactable'

His lawyer is about as honest and trustwothy as Thaksin's is - come on!

[Wallaby]

Maybe his lawyer isn't trustworthy but our foreign minister also raised that concern. Not that I'd trust him either.

[LaoPo]

Maybe his lawyer isn't trustworthy but our foreign minister also raised that concern. Not that I'd trust him either.

Why would anybody say Assange's lawyer in London is dishonest and not trustworthy?

Does anybody here know him...know about his trackrecord ?

I think calling a lawyer dishonest and not trustworthy is a dangerous thing to say and maybe something out of frustration but certainly an attack below the belt towards a respectable lawyer.

Not very Gentleman alike

It's the same thing as calling the prosecutor in Sweden not trustworthy although we have more reasons to assume she could be, since she is already the THIRD prosecutor in Assange's case.

The other 2 dismissed the case already in August and September for having no evidence.

Some members should be a little more careful to compare a respectful Lawyer from London with any other lawyer on the other side of the world.

After all, defamation in Thailand is a very serious offence !

LaoPo

[Wallaby]

I was responding the other poster that intimated his lawyer was not trustworthy. I've never met the guy nor am I ever likely to meet him. Assange has a very very well respected barrister on his way to assist. Geoffrey Robertson.