Abhisit Should Get Own House In Order Instead Of Playing Game Of Bluff

[thailandbluegrass]

The author suggests the PM should solve most of Thailand's problems overnight without suggesting how that may be done. Perhaps he could borrow Harry Potter's wand.

As for the hillbilly, may I suggest that most of your problems are currency, or lack of it, related, and that is the fault of your own country not Thailand. The little Oz dollar, once referred to as the Pacific Peso, is doing fine, thank you very much, and I have no problems with local pricing, or accessing the internet.

I can even afford to buy a visa, which is why border run entries were reduced to 15 days, to encourage you to do the same. I find it quite reasonable that any country should know who is living within their borders, and not grant carte blanche entry to anybody who can afford to get to a border once a month

As for southern tourism, how many tourists have been shot or otherwise affected. I regularly visit Had Yai, Songkla, Satun and even Sungai Kolok (you can cross the border there, and BUY a visa), by bike, and never had the slightest problem.

A most admirable reponse to a pile of trash from the Nation, and a very ill-considered post by the "hillbilly". Both the reporter and the hillbilly seem to think the grass is always greener (God knows where...).

I have been here long enough to know that things have the potential to be much improved under PM Abhisit than they have been for many a year (and please refrain from taking my sign-up date with TV as an indicator of my tenure in Thailand). And by that, I don't mean for me, johnny foreigner, but for citizens of Thailand.

KhunT apparently believed that extrajudicial killings were justifiable; to him, the end justified the means. Thus, no citizen of Thailand was safe under his style of governance.

The Nation reporter apparently believes that KhunT has a point to make. I would dearly love to see him appear before the Commission, and see how he struggles with the questions on human rights issues as they pertain to the South of Thailand. He certainly shouldn't be expected to have anything to say about the riotous behavior of his Red Army in Bangkok since he was never here during any of the uprising that he incited (and continued to fuel with his daily transmissions) ... nor were his family. All of them safely tucked away while he used the lives of his misguided followers to make a point. Exactly what his point was escapes me (please, don't bother me with the details).

PM Abhisit, if given the opportunity, will certainly ensure that his house is in order, but that will require an end to all of these petty cooked-up charges against him by the inept politicians in the various parties that oppose him. If we can see an end to all of these distractions, this man has the ability to put Thailand on track and rid the country of the blight of corruption, greed and self-serving behavior, which, by the way, despite the best efforts of this inept bunch, the current PM has been shown to have risen above.

If the Nation can't think of anything better to report, then maybe they should consider taking page 3 of the Sun mewspaper and using that as their cover page. As for "hillbilly", take the advice of OzMick, get a real presence here in Thailand, and stop blaming others for your own situation!

Get a real presence here in Thailand? Is 11 years strait, never leaving presence enough for you? Why everyone seems to think I have visa issues is out of my mind-train. I was speaking about the Thai goverment is looking to bring back tourists and giving a 15 day land entry doesn't help that at all. They are just saying "Ok after you have spent 15 days worth of money here you must move on to Cambodia and Laos where they are happy to take your money".

As for the poster that wants evidence as to foriegners rotting in jail, you must have not read the news lately?

[phiphidon]

I think you stopped reading my post at the first sentence you didn't like. That diverts from my second paragraph which maybe you also wouldn't like. Reminds me of the discussion we had a while ago (on the 7th this month I think, very apt title 'a knife to everyone's back' ).

For those who don't know the intricate details maybe just start here

http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

As for photographs from Centralworld taken on May 19th, may be you mean this one?

No, no that one, I believe he's referring to a set of 63/4 photographs taken inside Central World at various locations showing a number of security, military and unknown people inside the building on the 19th May. More discussion of the content of these photographs at

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/photos-from-may-19-an-update

[rubl]

I think you stopped reading my post at the first sentence you didn't like. That diverts from my second paragraph which maybe you also wouldn't like. Reminds me of the discussion we had a while ago (on the 7th this month I think, very apt title 'a knife to everyone's back' ).

For those who don't know the intricate details maybe just start here

http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

As for photographs from Centralworld taken on May 19th, may be you mean this one?

No, no that one, I believe he's referring to a set of 63/4 photographs taken inside Central World at various locations showing a number of security, military and unknown people inside the building on the 19th May. More discussion of the content of these photographs at

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/photos-from-may-19-an-update

Interesting. Nice description, mostly plausible, nothing really new.

From the conclusion

"And while these photographs do not provide us with any ground shaking new conclusions about the CentralWorld fire, their release and the ongoing public response is striking, because it demonstrates how little information the public actually has about what happened. More than six months later we're still guessing, still bickering about who did what."

More openness would help the government.

[Siam Simon]

I think you stopped reading my post at the first sentence you didn't like. That diverts from my second paragraph which maybe you also wouldn't like. Reminds me of the discussion we had a while ago (on the 7th this month I think, very apt title 'a knife to everyone's back' ).

For those who don't know the intricate details maybe just start here

http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

As for photographs from Centralworld taken on May 19th, may be you mean this one?

No, no that one, I believe he's referring to a set of 63/4 photographs taken inside Central World at various locations showing a number of security, military and unknown people inside the building on the 19th May. More discussion of the content of these photographs at

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/photos-from-may-19-an-update

Interesting. Nice description, mostly plausible, nothing really new.

From the conclusion

"And while these photographs do not provide us with any ground shaking new conclusions about the CentralWorld fire, their release and the ongoing public response is striking, because it demonstrates how little information the public actually has about what happened. More than six months later we're still guessing, still bickering about who did what."

More openness would help the government.

Well, it's not easy for the government to be open about the events of April and May when the Army is stonewalling their requests for info. According to some posters on TV, all the evidence points to the protestors being responsible for most of the violence. Why aren't the Army metaphorically waving this evidence from the rooftops?

Btw, what I found strange about those Central World photos was all those precise sniper shots to the legs, this in an area controlled at that time by the Army.

[rubl]

I think you stopped reading my post at the first sentence you didn't like. That diverts from my second paragraph which maybe you also wouldn't like. Reminds me of the discussion we had a while ago (on the 7th this month I think, very apt title 'a knife to everyone's back' ).

For those who don't know the intricate details maybe just start here

http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

As for photographs from Centralworld taken on May 19th, may be you mean this one?

No, no that one, I believe he's referring to a set of 63/4 photographs taken inside Central World at various locations showing a number of security, military and unknown people inside the building on the 19th May. More discussion of the content of these photographs at

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/photos-from-may-19-an-update

Interesting. Nice description, mostly plausible, nothing really new.

From the conclusion

"And while these photographs do not provide us with any ground shaking new conclusions about the CentralWorld fire, their release and the ongoing public response is striking, because it demonstrates how little information the public actually has about what happened. More than six months later we're still guessing, still bickering about who did what."

More openness would help the government.

Well, it's not easy for the government to be open about the events of April and May when the Army is stonewalling their requests for info. According to some posters on TV, all the evidence points to the protestors being responsible for most of the violence. Why aren't the Army metaphorically waving this evidence from the rooftops?

Btw, what I found strange about those Central World photos was all those precise sniper shots to the legs, this in an area controlled at that time by the Army.

I beg to differ, at least a bit

The DSI is under control of the government, but both haven't been really open on all evidence collected. The army (of course) is also under the control of the government. With lines of responsibility and delegated responsibility / tasks the DSI should make a report that probably should be offered to the government which may decide to publish some or all. Normal in democracies.

As for the legshots, the article quoted tries not to speculate on who shot who, but concludes

"We can conclude that there was at least one shooter or group of shooters inside CTW, but to conclude anything more would be to go beyond what the current evidence shows. The people with guns inside CTW could have been one of a number of groups, with the two most obvious possibilities being the Thai military and the so-called Men In Black, an armed militia group believed to be associated with the Red Shirts."

The fact that both possible red-shirts and/or looters AND guards were shot makes it difficult. Or should I say more inviting for speculations ? The area controlled by the army is a statement I cannot agree with. Fighting was still ongoing.

Edited December 11, 2010 by rubl

[thailandbluegrass]

I think you stopped reading my post at the first sentence you didn't like. That diverts from my second paragraph which maybe you also wouldn't like. Reminds me of the discussion we had a while ago (on the 7th this month I think, very apt title 'a knife to everyone's back' ).

For those who don't know the intricate details maybe just start here

http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

As for photographs from Centralworld taken on May 19th, may be you mean this one?

No, no that one, I believe he's referring to a set of 63/4 photographs taken inside Central World at various locations showing a number of security, military and unknown people inside the building on the 19th May. More discussion of the content of these photographs at

http://asiancorrespo...ay-19-an-update

Interesting. Nice description, mostly plausible, nothing really new.

From the conclusion

"And while these photographs do not provide us with any ground shaking new conclusions about the CentralWorld fire, their release and the ongoing public response is striking, because it demonstrates how little information the public actually has about what happened. More than six months later we're still guessing, still bickering about who did what."

More openness would help the government.

I say ask that nit-wit farang that was caught on video saying "we're gonna burn central to the #$%&& ground, Loot everything, gold, watches" He seems to know exactly what was or did happen.

[TAWP]

The premise of the argument is wrong. The issue with Thaksin going to the US and it getting way too much attention is because of the media whoring every press-release his lying PR-staff released - nothing else.

Has not very much with Abhisit to do.

[Siam Simon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these reports suggest things really got out of hand on the 10th of April. Some have said 'if the army hadn't moved in nothing would have happened', but that's like sticking your head in the sand. The army reacted on violence rather starting it. The deaths on the 19th of May were the accumulation of violence started on the 10th of April.

This being Thailand it's difficult to get anyone to admit 'I was wrong'. It shouldn't surprise anyone the army has a problem with that. Lots of armies elsewhere have a problem with that, check wikileaks if you still can. In the end the army should owe up to their guilt, although I don't think individual soldiers should be prosecuted. They were ordered to do a job they were not trained to do. Some generals should probably step down, enough of them anyway. Next get the police force in shape. They share part of the blame, they didn't function properly.

"The army reacted on violence rather than starting it" 'history rewriting' indeed. Still, it helps divert attention from the rather annoying news that the government's own investigation is pointing the finger at the Army over some of the temple deaths. I'm sure this story will become very boring very quickly. Btw, has anyone else seen that series of photographs from Central World taken on May 19? Very strange.

Interesting article in today's Independent by Andrew Bunscombe (who was shot inside Wat Pathumwanaram on May 19:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/andrew-buncombe-i-didnt-see-who-shot-me-ndash-but-those-who-were-looking-have-few-doubts-2157437.html

[TAWP]

Earlier in the week, soldiers had been casually spraying bullets at Red Shirt protesters armed with stones and fireworks elsewhere in the city. They didn't seem to care that the protesters had taken up a position in a residential area and that the bullets of their M16s would likely travel a very long way.

An unbiased source with carefully thought out words.

Edited December 11, 2010 by TAWP

[Siam Simon]

Earlier in the week, soldiers had been casually spraying bullets at Red Shirt protesters armed with stones and fireworks elsewhere in the city. They didn't seem to care that the protesters had taken up a position in a residential area and that the bullets of their M16s would likely travel a very long way.

An unbiased source with carefully thought out words.

He was there (he got shot in the temple grounds, remember?). Unpleasant truths that don't fit the manifesto? Simple: Discredit the messenger. Thai Visa right winger 101.

[TAWP]

Earlier in the week, soldiers had been casually spraying bullets at Red Shirt protesters armed with stones and fireworks elsewhere in the city. They didn't seem to care that the protesters had taken up a position in a residential area and that the bullets of their M16s would likely travel a very long way.

An unbiased source with carefully thought out words.

He was there (he got shot in the temple grounds, remember?). Unpleasant truths that don't fit the manifesto? Simple: Discredit the messenger. Thai Visa right winger 101.

If course he was there. But please, do point out in my post where I state anything inaccurate per se.

Is his wording that of a person with knowledge and oversight or of someone that has been in one camp, has an inherit bias (due to stressful situation and being shot at, no doubt) and therefor tar rest of his 'report' with words that images aren't really backing up (unless one subscribes to hyperbole ofc).

[Siam Simon]

Earlier in the week, soldiers had been casually spraying bullets at Red Shirt protesters armed with stones and fireworks elsewhere in the city. They didn't seem to care that the protesters had taken up a position in a residential area and that the bullets of their M16s would likely travel a very long way.

An unbiased source with carefully thought out words.

He was there (he got shot in the temple grounds, remember?). Unpleasant truths that don't fit the manifesto? Simple: Discredit the messenger. Thai Visa right winger 101.

If course he was there. But please, do point out in my post where I state anything inaccurate per se.

Is his wording that of a person with knowledge and oversight or of someone that has been in one camp, has an inherit bias (due to stressful situation and being shot at, no doubt) and therefor tar rest of his 'report' with words that images aren't really backing up (unless one subscribes to hyperbole ofc).

So, you're questioning the accuracy of his on-the-ground observer reports by speculating about his motivations. Discredit the messenger. Thai Visa right winger 101.

[Roadman]

The author suggests the PM should solve most of Thailand's problems overnight without suggesting how that may be done. Perhaps he could borrow Harry Potter's wand.

As for the hillbilly, may I suggest that most of your problems are currency, or lack of it, related, and that is the fault of your own country not Thailand. The little Oz dollar, once referred to as the Pacific Peso, is doing fine, thank you very much, and I have no problems with local pricing, or accessing the internet.

I can even afford to buy a visa, which is why border run entries were reduced to 15 days, to encourage you to do the same. I find it quite reasonable that any country should know who is living within their borders, and not grant carte blanche entry to anybody who can afford to get to a border once a month

As for southern tourism, how many tourists have been shot or otherwise affected. I regularly visit Had Yai, Songkla, Satun and even Sungai Kolok (you can cross the border there, and BUY a visa), by bike, and never had the slightest problem.

A most admirable reponse to a pile of trash from the Nation, and a very ill-considered post by the "hillbilly". Both the reporter and the hillbilly seem to think the grass is always greener (God knows where...).

I have been here long enough to know that things have the potential to be much improved under PM Abhisit than they have been for many a year (and please refrain from taking my sign-up date with TV as an indicator of my tenure in Thailand). And by that, I don't mean for me, johnny foreigner, but for citizens of Thailand.

KhunT apparently believed that extrajudicial killings were justifiable; to him, the end justified the means. Thus, no citizen of Thailand was safe under his style of governance.

The Nation reporter apparently believes that KhunT has a point to make. I would dearly love to see him appear before the Commission, and see how he struggles with the questions on human rights issues as they pertain to the South of Thailand. He certainly shouldn't be expected to have anything to say about the riotous behavior of his Red Army in Bangkok since he was never here during any of the uprising that he incited (and continued to fuel with his daily transmissions) ... nor were his family. All of them safely tucked away while he used the lives of his misguided followers to make a point. Exactly what his point was escapes me (please, don't bother me with the details).

PM Abhisit, if given the opportunity, will certainly ensure that his house is in order, but that will require an end to all of these petty cooked-up charges against him by the inept politicians in the various parties that oppose him. If we can see an end to all of these distractions, this man has the ability to put Thailand on track and rid the country of the blight of corruption, greed and self-serving behavior, which, by the way, despite the best efforts of this inept bunch, the current PM has been shown to have risen above.

If the Nation can't think of anything better to report, then maybe they should consider taking page 3 of the Sun mewspaper and using that as their cover page. As for "hillbilly", take the advice of OzMick, get a real presence here in Thailand, and stop blaming others for your own situation!

Well said that man.

[Roadman]

I think you stopped reading my post at the first sentence you didn't like. That diverts from my second paragraph which maybe you also wouldn't like. Reminds me of the discussion we had a while ago (on the 7th this month I think, very apt title 'a knife to everyone's back' ).

For those who don't know the intricate details maybe just start here

http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

As for photographs from Centralworld taken on May 19th, may be you mean this one?

No, no that one, I believe he's referring to a set of 63/4 photographs taken inside Central World at various locations showing a number of security, military and unknown people inside the building on the 19th May. More discussion of the content of these photographs at

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/photos-from-may-19-an-update

Interesting. Nice description, mostly plausible, nothing really new.

From the conclusion

"And while these photographs do not provide us with any ground shaking new conclusions about the CentralWorld fire, their release and the ongoing public response is striking, because it demonstrates how little information the public actually has about what happened. More than six months later we're still guessing, still bickering about who did what."

More openness would help the government.

Well, it's not easy for the government to be open about the events of April and May when the Army is stonewalling their requests for info. According to some posters on TV, all the evidence points to the protestors being responsible for most of the violence. Why aren't the Army metaphorically waving this evidence from the rooftops?

Btw, what I found strange about those Central World photos was all those precise sniper shots to the legs, this in an area controlled at that time by the Army.

I don't find it strange. What some people seem to keep forgetting is that the scene was a war being fought for the control of the country in the city centre. That there was strategic and accurate Army bullet placing is heartening news as it shows that there is the quality in the troops to carry out "with more effective training" such operations in the future. It was a successful operation in the end to deal with murderers and terrorists holed up among Red supporters and least some also forget civilians, with their only intent to cripple Bangkok and Thailand.

Sure the Army is responsible for deaths from their snipers and their storming of the terrorists last stronghold. Do we need to run a ledger to tally them up for each side to see who wins. Nobody won the Bangkok mess. The lose and a far more worthy one was for Khun Kamonked Akkhahad the nurse still doing what her code asked of her when her life was lost.

The difference with a government and Army working together for the common good is that there is some confidence in the current administration to actually improve the system. The opposition in what ever form it offers has nothing on the table to offer the country but terrorist control and mayhem.

[Siam Simon]

Well, it's not easy for the government to be open about the events of April and May when the Army is stonewalling their requests for info. According to some posters on TV, all the evidence points to the protestors being responsible for most of the violence. Why aren't the Army metaphorically waving this evidence from the rooftops?

Btw, what I found strange about those Central World photos was all those precise sniper shots to the legs, this in an area controlled at that time by the Army.

I don't find it strange. What some people seem to keep forgetting is that the scene was a war being fought for the control of the country in the city centre. That there was strategic and accurate Army bullet placing is heartening news as it shows that there is the quality in the troops to carry out "with more effective training" such operations in the future. It was a successful operation in the end to deal with murderers and terrorists holed up among Red supporters and least some also forget civilians, with their only intent to cripple Bangkok and Thailand.

Sure the Army is responsible for deaths from their snipers and their storming of the terrorists last stronghold. Do we need to run a ledger to tally them up for each side to see who wins. Nobody won the Bangkok mess. The lose and a far more worthy one was for Khun Kamonked Akkhahad the nurse still doing what her code asked of her when her life was lost.

The difference with a government and Army working together for the common good is that there is some confidence in the current administration to actually improve the system. The opposition in what ever form it offers has nothing on the table to offer the country but terrorist control and mayhem.

Uh.....It'd be a good idea if you viewed the photos we're discussing and see who was being shot and the locations where they were being shot before you go off even further on one .

[Valentine]

Get a real presence here in Thailand? Is 11 years strait, never leaving presence enough for you? Why everyone seems to think I have visa issues is out of my mind-train. I was speaking about the Thai goverment is looking to bring back tourists and giving a 15 day land entry doesn't help that at all. They are just saying "Ok after you have spent 15 days worth of money here you must move on to Cambodia and Laos where they are happy to take your money".

As for the poster that wants evidence as to foriegners rotting in jail, you must have not read the news lately?

People are in jail for a reason, both foreigners & Thai. Are they unwanted & rotting away, who knows? The two high profile foreigners who were jailed in connection with the red riots have both been released & deported.

If I remember correctly the 15 day visa was designed to try & stop people who were working here illegally. The government has done much to promote tourism including issuing free visas.

If you really want to go after Abhisit then perhaps you should look at the corruption within his cabinet, however I feel he is doing a better job than previous PMs who were actually at the forefront of corruption.