Tha Thorn Boat Trip

[scorpio1945]

Thinking of taking the wifes family on a little trip to Tha Thorn. When it was just the wife and I we were going to take the 10:30 boat and stay over night then come back the next day at 12:30.Now with the family and renting the entire boat, wondering if we should only go most of the way and come back the same day. My questions are:. Is there a lot to see on the last stretch to Tha Thorn? Is there that much to see in Tha Thorn? Is there nice guest houses? Better to take bus back from Tha Thorn? Your opinions welcome. Thank you

[sceadugenga]

Tha Ton is one of my favourite places in Thailand, I've never done the boat trip but friends speak highly of it. (I always end up driving the car to pick them up).

There's a nice hotel there, next to the bridge, but expensive, about 1500B. Seems to be plenty of guest houses.

Edited December 10, 2010 by sceadugenga

[pomchop]

I've done the Tha Ton trip several times. My advice would be to take the bus/songtaow up and then come back downstream to CR on the public boat which I think leaves about 12;30....going downstream just seems to make more sense and I think going roundtrip on the boat might be a little bit of overkill....if you like you can charter your own boat to bring you from Tha Ton to CR as you please. They will all stop at the elephant camp....when you come back to CR you can get out at CR beach or they will take you to the dock near the bridge over near Rim Kok.

There are a lot of nice little bunaglows in Tha Ton right on the river that are very pleasant for an overnight...one is Garden House but there are several along the river in the 400 baht or so price range.

Not much to do in Tha Ton other than climb the mountain to the temple which has a very nice view....and sit around at a guest house or riverfront restaurant and watch the water flow....very pretty place. Good Luck

[scorpio1945]

Thanks both. Very good info, especially the part about traveling one way by vechile, although thus far I am loosing that battle Being out voted. Nice guys get back aches.

[pomchop]

Thanks both. Very good info, especially the part about traveling one way by vechile, although thus far I am loosing that battle Being out voted. Nice guys get back aches.

Keep in mind that if you take the boat from CR to Tha Ton they are going against the current and what this generally means is that they have to give it more gas and therefore you get to listen to more roaring engine noise for about 5 hours....slower going upstream than downstream...seems to me coming down stream there are times when they cut the engine way back and go with the flow...for what it's worth..

Edited December 10, 2010 by pomchop

[harsu]

Thanks both. Very good info, especially the part about traveling one way by vechile, although thus far I am loosing that battle Being out voted. Nice guys get back aches.

Keep in mind that if you take the boat from CR to Tha Ton they are going against the current and what this generally means is that they have to give it more gas and therefore you get to listen to more roaring engine noise for about 5 hours....slower going upstream than downstream...seems to me coming down stream there are times when they cut the engine way back and go with the flow...for what it's worth..

You could come down river very slowly on one of the bamboo rafts that are sometimes for hire. There's some lovely riverbank views to enjoy. Whichever way you decide, watch out for us and don't let your wake get too high, we have two little bright orange plastic bathtubs (shaped like boats but steer like baths) and are often out on the river south of Namlamkok at this time of year. We usually manage to up-end ourselves or beach ourselves on sandbanks at least once each time.

[klikster]

There used to be a restaurant there .. a few hundred meters down the riverside road .. on the river .. than had outstanding broasted chicken.

[brahmburgers]

I've done the Tha Ton trip several times. My advice would be to take the bus/songtaow up and then come back downstream to CR on the public boat which I think leaves about 12;30....going downstream just seems to make more sense and I think going roundtrip on the boat might be a little bit of overkill....if you like you can charter your own boat to bring you from Tha Ton to CR as you please. They will all stop at the elephant camp....when you come back to CR you can get out at CR beach or they will take you to the dock near the bridge over near Rim Kok.

There are a lot of nice little bunaglows in Tha Ton right on the river that are very pleasant for an overnight...one is Garden House but there are several along the river in the 400 baht or so price range.

Not much to do in Tha Ton other than climb the mountain to the temple which has a very nice view....and sit around at a guest house or riverfront restaurant and watch the water flow....very pretty place. Good Luck

I spell Taton like it sounds, without the silly h's and r's that transliterators add (to nearly all Thai words) in order to make the Thai language more difficult for farang. Spell it like it sounds, and drop the h's and r's and other unnecessary duff. Maybe if we, the little people, spell Thai words like they sound, then scholars, up on their pedestals, will follow. Nah, won't happen. Scholars are determined to keep the confusing transliteration methods going. After, what's a scholar (?), .....but someone who complicates a simple concept.

I've also been several times, and agree with the above post. There's also a way via bus up to Mae Chan, then take a p.u truck taxi west over the hills to Taton. I did that once, carrying an inflatable kayak. I pumped it up by the riverside in Taton, and floated down to Chiang Rai. Took 6.5 hours - though I stopped at 'My Dream' guest house which sits on the north bank down from the elephant camp. There's only about 1/2 Km of white water on the whole stretch. Would be interesting to see about going upstream in to Burma. Anyone done that?

[svenivan]

I spell Taton like it sounds, without the silly h's and r's that transliterators add (to nearly all Thai words) in order to make the Thai language more difficult for farang. Spell it like it sounds, and drop the h's and r's and other unnecessary duff. Maybe if we, the little people, spell Thai words like they sound, then scholars, up on their pedestals, will follow. Nah, won't happen. Scholars are determined to keep the confusing transliteration methods going. After, what's a scholar (?), .....but someone who complicates a simple concept.

I've also been several times, and agree with the above post. There's also a way via bus up to Mae Chan, then take a p.u truck taxi west over the hills to Taton. I did that once, carrying an inflatable kayak. I pumped it up by the riverside in Taton, and floated down to Chiang Rai. Took 6.5 hours - though I stopped at 'My Dream' guest house which sits on the north bank down from the elephant camp. There's only about 1/2 Km of white water on the whole stretch. Would be interesting to see about going upstream in to Burma. Anyone done that?

If Thai language was as simple as you say we all could learn it.

But the Thai language is a little bit more complicated.

"the silly h's and r's that transliterators add" is to help us say the word a little bit closer the way Thai people talk.

So a "T" for us is a "T" but in Thai language you can pronounce it as a "T" or as a mix of "T" and "D". So if the "transliterators" spell it "Thaton" we should pronounce it as "Taton" but if they spell it "Taton" we should prounounce it like "Dtaton".

Same with "K". A word that starts with "Kh" should be pronounced "K" but if it starts without the "H" it will be a mix of "K" and "G".

"My dream" guesthouse is quite a long way before you come to Elephant Camp. it is just before the "Motorbikebridge". That is if you come from Thaton and going down to Chiang Rai.

But going from Thaton to Chiang Rai in a kayak seems to be much more interesting and fun compared to sit in a longtailboat!

[sceadugenga]

I admire independent thought in most fields brahmburgers but in the interest of people knowing what I'm talking about on forums I find that using the same spelling as what's on the map helpful.

[chang35baht]

I've done the Tha Ton trip several times. My advice would be to take the bus/songtaow up and then come back downstream to CR on the public boat which I think leaves about 12;30....going downstream just seems to make more sense and I think going roundtrip on the boat might be a little bit of overkill....if you like you can charter your own boat to bring you from Tha Ton to CR as you please. They will all stop at the elephant camp....when you come back to CR you can get out at CR beach or they will take you to the dock near the bridge over near Rim Kok.

There are a lot of nice little bunaglows in Tha Ton right on the river that are very pleasant for an overnight...one is Garden House but there are several along the river in the 400 baht or so price range.

Not much to do in Tha Ton other than climb the mountain to the temple which has a very nice view....and sit around at a guest house or riverfront restaurant and watch the water flow....very pretty place. Good Luck

I spell Taton like it sounds, without the silly h's and r's that transliterators add (to nearly all Thai words) in order to make the Thai language more difficult for farang. Spell it like it sounds, and drop the h's and r's and other unnecessary duff. Maybe if we, the little people, spell Thai words like they sound, then scholars, up on their pedestals, will follow. Nah, won't happen. Scholars are determined to keep the confusing transliteration methods going. After, what's a scholar (?), .....but someone who complicates a simple concept.

I've also been several times, and agree with the above post. There's also a way via bus up to Mae Chan, then take a p.u truck taxi west over the hills to Taton. I did that once, carrying an inflatable kayak. I pumped it up by the riverside in Taton, and floated down to Chiang Rai. Took 6.5 hours - though I stopped at 'My Dream' guest house which sits on the north bank down from the elephant camp. There's only about 1/2 Km of white water on the whole stretch. Would be interesting to see about going upstream in to Burma. Anyone done that?

Yeah wel ,if we al took your advys on how to speek/spel thi Ty langwage Brahms, oops, lets get rid of that silly H, Brams, we may as wel giv up.

Taton, ritten as you like to rite it wood get you lost as soon as you asked the first nativ Ty speaker for directions. Baton.

There are reasons why words that sound the same have different spellings. Especially in Tyland Even in the US where you`re from I think.

Good luk with the Ty custumurs at your noo Boomurang park.

Regards,

C35B.

Edited December 12, 2010 by chang35baht

[brahmburgers]

Yeah wel ,if we al took your advys on how to speek/spel thi Ty langwage Brahms, oops, lets get rid of that silly H, Brams, we may as wel giv up. Taton, ritten as you like to rite it wood get you lost as soon as you asked the first nativ Ty speaker for directions. Baton. There are reasons why words that sound the same have different spellings. Especially in Tyland Even in the US where you`re from I think.

The above is somewhat witty by chang35baht, and it's not really too far off the mark. I wouldn't transliterate it the way you did, but you're trying to transliterate English for an English speaker - so it's a bit odd.

Transliteration (of Thai to English) is geared for farang, it's not for Thais. Unfortunately, many transliterations are done by Thais, so it exacerbates the problem - similar to having a Thai person write a book on learning English. I have one popular book like that, and there is at least one mistake on each and every page of the book.

I also looked at an English dictionary used at Thai Universities, and at least one word (sometimes half a dozen) on each page was woefully archaic. The type of word you might hear once in a lifetime (perhaps within a pre-Shakespearean poem), if that. ....but I stray a bit off-topic.

We don't have to agree on spellings, but I still stand by the simple axiom: spell it as it sounds. Alright, using dt instead of d is ok - though in the real world, you rarely hear such subtle refinements when speaking with ordinary Thai folks. I met a Thai friend in Bkk who, when she heard I was trying to learn Thai in the north, said, "Oh, that's impossible. You can't learn to speak Thai in northern Thailand. They don't know how to speak up there."

One of the first words I tried to learn, when coming to Thailand, was the word for 'people' In the esteemed dictionary, they spelled it 'korn' so I pronounced it korn, and people giggled at me, until I got corrected.

Indeed, the Thai spelling doesn't have an r, so why transliterate it with an r? (doesn't have an 'o' either, but it's implied)

There are maps of Bangkok with the same road spelled differently along its route. Look at 10 different Thai/English dictionaries and you'll see each one has a different method. Unfortunately, all 10 will still add unnecessary h's and r's. It could be much simpler, if transliterators simply spelled words just like they sound.

I just re-read the witticism by chang35baht where he implies a farang learning the town's name spelled as Taton would not be understood as well as the same farang (assuming she's a newcomer) learning it from the spelling Tha Thorn. Look at the two words 'Tha Thorn' and (without already knowing the Thai town's name) tell me exactly how it sounds. Can you say with a straight face that 'Tha Thorn' sounds more like the town's name than Taton? Up to you, dude.

Edited December 12, 2010 by brahmburgers

[bifftastic]

I spell Taton like it sounds, without the silly h's and r's that transliterators add (to nearly all Thai words) in order to make the Thai language more difficult for farang. Spell it like it sounds, and drop the h's and r's and other unnecessary duff. Maybe if we, the little people, spell Thai words like they sound, then scholars, up on their pedestals, will follow. Nah, won't happen. Scholars are determined to keep the confusing transliteration methods going. After, what's a scholar (?), .....but someone who complicates a simple concept.

If Thai language was as simple as you say we all could learn it.

But the Thai language is a little bit more complicated.

"the silly h's and r's that transliterators add" is to help us say the word a little bit closer the way Thai people talk.

So a "T" for us is a "T" but in Thai language you can pronounce it as a "T" or as a mix of "T" and "D". So if the "transliterators" spell it "Thaton" we should pronounce it as "Taton" but if they spell it "Taton" we should prounounce it like "Dtaton".

Same with "K". A word that starts with "Kh" should be pronounced "K" but if it starts without the "H" it will be a mix of "K" and "G".

Ok slightly off topic so apologies in advance

I just wanted to chip in on the spelling thing.

The problem with transliterations (there are many but I'm just going to highlight this one), is that English speakers, and speakers of other languages with roman letters, all make different vowel sounds with the same vowels.

The 'h's in Thai transliterations can, I agree, be confusing but if you were to spell the name Tha Ton as Taton, you would still get as many different pronunciations as you do now.

For instance, folks from my part of the world would emphasise the first syllable and give it a pronounced 'AY' sound and shorten the second giving it a lighter 'UN' sound and almost ignoring the second 't' completely, leaving you with a word like 'Taytun' which isn't helpful, nor does it sound like the word in Thai.

I'm sure English speakers from America, Australia, New Zealand would come up with different versions too.

Whilst the best way, by far, is to learn to read Thai script, there are semi-recognised transliterations already so adding your own, in my opinion, is only useful to yourself.

There are letters for 'o' in Thai, some of them are implied but others are written. I find the 'h's and 'bp/dt' transliterations kind of helpful in that they show me when a sound should be aspirated or a 'blend' of my own languages sounds.

Having said that, they're often miles away from the true pronunciation as in the word for island, transliterated as 'Koh' from เกาะ pretty much impossible to read correctly in roman letters, resulting in English speakers coming out with something like 'OH' with a 'K' in front of it as opposed to the, more correct, half 'K' half 'G' guttural sound followed by a very cut off, shorter than a very short thing, 'O,'

Also the separation of Tha and Ton shows two clear syllables, having seen the Thai spelling I reckon it could be Taa Torn or Taa Tawn but that would generate just as many pronunciations as Tha Ton or Taton. What it can't do is show the tones but we'll just have to learn them if we want to be understood

And it's on the map as Tha Ton, so failing all else we can point at it

Once again, sorry for pulling the discussion off topic

[klikster]

....but I stray a bit off-topic.

Nooo .. never!

[Finlaco]

I've done the trip twice

Agree with the poster that suggested going both ways is over kill and the noise of the engine going against the current

The first hour from CR is pretty spoilt.

Agree that best to travel to Tha Ton by bus and then return by boat

[sceadugenga]

There's a nice restuarant just past the hotel on the Burmese side of the bridge.

[mcgriffith]

Even mods go off topic once in a while.

In 1975, I was a young dude of 23 or so.

Visiting Chiang Mai (arrived by train from BKK), I stayed in a hotel that had an early day eco-tour/trekking thing.

They called it a "Golden Triangle Tour"

Bus to Tha Ton, boat down the Mae Kok. We got off I have no idea where on the river, but did 2 days of trekking where we visited a Yunnan, Lisu, Lahu and I think maybe some other ethnic group (Akha, Karen, Hmong...who knows?).

Remarkable trip, because at that time, the area was not very stable. All the villages seemed absent of menfolk- they were all off tending/guarding the poppy fields. Stayed in 2 villages overnight in simple accomodations. Ran into a Thai Army Ranger patrol, heavily armed in full camo/facepaint at one point.

Ended up in Chiang Rai; bus back to CM.

The scariest part wasn't the poppy zone- it was the high speed ride in the long tail boat (back then basically a dugout canoe with a blown 454 V-8).

Ah, fond memories of youth....

[sunholidaysun1]

If doing that trip I would advise only when the river is full , not the dry season when the river is at its lowest , there are lots of sandbanks and uprooted trees that can cause major problems for those longtails ,especially at speed.

The Bamboo raft looks fun , seen it many times and would be a really nice to see the country instead of zooming through with that high pitched noise of the engines. I wish they would all convert to gas with silencers fitted , much better.

[sceadugenga]

Even mods go off topic once in a while.

In 1975, I was a young dude of 23 or so.

Visiting Chiang Mai (arrived by train from BKK), I stayed in a hotel that had an early day eco-tour/trekking thing.

They called it a "Golden Triangle Tour"

Bus to Tha Ton, boat down the Mae Kok. We got off I have no idea where on the river, but did 2 days of trekking where we visited a Yunnan, Lisu, Lahu and I think maybe some other ethnic group (Akha, Karen, Hmong...who knows?).

Remarkable trip, because at that time, the area was not very stable. All the villages seemed absent of menfolk- they were all off tending/guarding the poppy fields. Stayed in 2 villages overnight in simple accomodations. Ran into a Thai Army Ranger patrol, heavily armed in full camo/facepaint at one point.

Ended up in Chiang Rai; bus back to CM.

The scariest part wasn't the poppy zone- it was the high speed ride in the long tail boat (back then basically a dugout canoe with a blown 454 V-8).

Ah, fond memories of youth....

My Mrs worked as a tour guide out of Chiang Mai back in the 80s, she did some of the first motorbike tours into the mountains around Mae Hong Son. Her boss gave her a hand gun to carry in her bag "in case of bandits".

Her experiences would make an interesting book if you could get her talking about them, she says all of her fellow guides from those days are dead, the hills tribes used to offer them drugs to take the tourists to their villages. She says she was the only one who never took them and subsequently never became addicted.

[phiphidon]

Even mods go off topic once in a while.

In 1975, I was a young dude of 23 or so.

Visiting Chiang Mai (arrived by train from BKK), I stayed in a hotel that had an early day eco-tour/trekking thing.

They called it a "Golden Triangle Tour"

Bus to Tha Ton, boat down the Mae Kok. We got off I have no idea where on the river, but did 2 days of trekking where we visited a Yunnan, Lisu, Lahu and I think maybe some other ethnic group (Akha, Karen, Hmong...who knows?).

Remarkable trip, because at that time, the area was not very stable. All the villages seemed absent of menfolk- they were all off tending/guarding the poppy fields. Stayed in 2 villages overnight in simple accomodations. Ran into a Thai Army Ranger patrol, heavily armed in full camo/facepaint at one point.

Ended up in Chiang Rai; bus back to CM.

The scariest part wasn't the poppy zone- it was the high speed ride in the long tail boat (back then basically a dugout canoe with a blown 454 V-8).

Ah, fond memories of youth....

My Mrs worked as a tour guide out of Chiang Mai back in the 80s, she did some of the first motorbike tours into the mountains around Mae Hong Son. Her boss gave her a hand gun to carry in her bag "in case of bandits".

Her experiences would make an interesting book if you could get her talking about them, she says all of her fellow guides from those days are dead, the hills tribes used to offer them drugs to take the tourists to their villages. She says she was the only one who never took them and subsequently never became addicted.

Even in 1996 when I took the boat from Tha Ton to Chiang Rai it was considered "dangerous". At one stage (don't know/remember where) we pulled into the river bank where there was a police hut. All foreigners had their names and passport numbers noted down and then a BIB complete with ancient rifle boarded and kept us safe from "bandits" for the rest of the way. I don't know what was more scary, the boat or the BIB with a loaded gun.