Thai Govt Crackdown On Street People Planned

[artinamerica]

Thailand is not a rich western country and it does a lot more for its mentally ill than a lot of other countries. India for example. The country just has not got enough funds to do everything that should be done. They need to widen tax collection to a lot more people including all the farangs who live here and pay no taxes.

I think we have found the first nutcase to put in a newly built ward...

I am a Farang who lives here and I don't pay taxes and why should I? I don't work but still contribute to the economy through my overseas savings and investments. What do you want the thai government to do introduce a farang tax? Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that someone from the thai tax office may see it and think that is a great idea. :licklips: :licklips:

If Thailand actually starts some form of "farang tax", that will be another nail in their economic coffin.

I, for one, will simply stop coming to Thailand every 1-3 months , and will simply abandon the new house I pay for, and my teerak that lives in it.

No more gravy train of baht sent over every month, being put into the Thai economy.

Maybe a rich Thai will buy the house, and enjoy a farang-free Thailand, which is what the Thais seem to want.

Farangs can only take so much BS with the existing farang rip-offs in every possible way the Thais can conceive.

Enough is enough. I am getting quite tired of being regarded as a walking ATM.

Let the rich Thai law-makers support their poor, and the lousy economy.

If all farang spending stops, their economy will feel the hit. Tough.

I love my pretty teerak, and my new house and car are nice to have in my retirement years that I am enjoying right now -- but everything has limits and a breaking-point.

"Farang tax" -- absolutely absurd.

That could maybe make me "walk away" form all the Thai BS with farangs, and start exploring other country destinations, starting with the Philippines, for instance.

Edited December 11, 2010 by artinamerica

[Colabamumbai]

There is no reason for poverty anywhere in the world. There is enough food and money to support the entire population of the world. The problem is how this money is controlled. The rich get richer and the poorer get poorer. Those of you who do not know better should understand politics and economics before you comment. I have spent too many years in the far east. Spend 15 years in Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Thailand, Laos, Malaysia, etc, before you make a qualified comment. Live with the people, eat with the people, help the people, understand the people and love the masses. Burn the bodies on the Ganges, or in the wats in Thailand before you feel qualified to comment on the subject.

[gemini81]

There's always someone who thinks that some or all beggars aren't "genuine" whatever that is.

THe truth is that in a society like /Thailand poverty is not far away wherever you are and ask youself, do you really think these beggars LIKE their work - would YOU like to sit in the road all day?

THe fact is that begging genuine or not only exists if poverty exists and "clearing the streets" won't make the problem go awayIt won't work and will create other problems especially in a country where corruption is rife.

One HAS to go to the causes of this poverty.

good points on the fail of trickle down. really things cost only what people are willing to pay for them.

However it is true a lot of those beggars don't wanna work. they're often on Thai Tv programs caught faking or feigning. others are hitting the jackpot beggin' and would rather do that than work. the ones who are really filthy and mental are the ones in need of help, not those middle aged to 50ish women with food and fresh pressed clothes posin' with a kid.

every country has its homeless I suppose, though I see few with so many fakers and unmotivated as I do here.

THis is pathetic!

Of corse there are fakes, but don't you see how useful they are ? people who want to have some kind of campaign against beggars without actually tackling the causes love to do exposees of "fakes" - this then changes the public perception and sympathies.

I would have thought that the average westerner would have been familiar with this by now

I am quite familiar. What is your genius solution then, in all of your arrogance and knowledge and expertise?

[Colabamumbai]

Thailand is not a rich western country and it does a lot more for its mentally ill than a lot of other countries. India for example. The country just has not got enough funds to do everything that should be done. They need to widen tax collection to a lot more people including all the farangs who live here and pay no taxes.

I think we have found the first nutcase to put in a newly built ward...

I am a Farang who lives here and I don't pay taxes and why should I? I don't work but still contribute to the economy through my overseas savings and investments. What do you want the thai government to do introduce a farang tax? Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that someone from the thai tax office may see it and think that is a great idea. :licklips: :licklips:

If Thailand actually starts some form of "farang tax", that will be another nail in their economic coffin.

I, for one, will simply stop coming to Thailand every 1-3 months , and will simply abandon the new house I pay for, and my teerak that lives in it.

No more gravy train of baht sent over every month, being put into the Thai economy.

Maybe a rich Thai will buy the house, and enjoy a farang-free Thailand, which is what the Thais seem to want.

Farangs can only take so much BS with the existing farang rip-offs in every possible way the Thais can conceive.

Enough is enough. I am getting quite tired of being regarded as a walking ATM.

Let the rich Thai law-makers support their poor, and the lousy economy.

If all farang spending stops, their economy will feel the hit. Tough.

I love my pretty teerak, and my new house and car are nice to have in my retirement years that I am enjoying right now -- but everything has limits and a breaking-point.

"Farang tax" -- absolutely absurd.

That could maybe make me "walk away" form all the Thai BS with farangs, and start exploring other country destinations, starting with the Philippines, for instance.

Do you really think that the Thais care?

[fma]

Anyone got the number for Hannibal Smith and the A-Team?

Thailand has its fair share of competent and dedicated people -- too bad that none of them work for the government.

[DickFarang]

Sorry, the "Briton in Pattaya" you refer to is a notorious drug addict and an absolute disgrace to other farangs.

See:

http://www.pattayada...ors-in-pattaya/

In my home country, Belgium, the law on vagrancy, begging and pimping was abolished in 1993.

Since then the cities are full of beggars, drug addicts, homeless people and illegal and other aliens who cost the community lots of money.

THanks for that Nazi manifesto!

Your reaction tells a lot about you.

If you read carefully between the lines - difficult for some -it will reveal that I don't like Nazis or those proposing policies that Nazis would like.

And I do not like the hooligan kind of Brits.

[jayjay0]

All of you who are so amazed at Thailand's inability to take care of poor people and people with health problems need to spend a night walking around in Washington DC, or Chicago, or New York City.

Yet another utterly facile argument - what has that got to do with anything???

We all know that the US has the worst health care in the "Western" world but that does not justify Thailand's ineptness to supply proper healthcare for its citizens or others to criticise the government's failure or two faced approach.

Amazing you make a observation that it is better here than in many first world countries and some one jumps on you. In all likely hood that person would be calling for Thailand to be as good as the western countries if they were in fact worse.

[What has failure or two faced approach]

got to do with any thing it is a new program that has not even started yet and you like so many other Thai Bashers can't wait to get in and condemn it. Did it ever dawn on you you might be rite then your negativity would be correct as is you are clueless.

For once Thailand has a PM who is actually willing to try. Give him a chance.:jap:

[jayjay0]

There is also a very fine line between Thailand poor and street people where in some provinces, are one and the same.

Good point. As the article says they are only starting out. If successful I can see down the line the honest poor being cared for. But this is going to be a double digit year solution in my opinion. That is if it works and we continue with leadership such as Abhist is trying to give. He has many more enemies in the real world doing every thing they can for him to fail than he has farongs on TV.

COLABAMUMBAI you said

Thai people look after members of their families, very few need to be begging, some just need to get out to contribute to the family.

Well said my wife pays all of her mothers medical and housing expenses and gives her money to live on.

Her mother still collects any thing that is recyclable and sells it so that she can feel like she is not a complete drain. That is important to her. Truth be known she is in her 80s and if I was walking down the street and didn't know her I would donate. I think she uses the money to help one of her daughters.

People do not understand the Thai's they judge them all by the actions of a few and use what they had back home as a standard to make there judgments from

[fma]

All of you who are so amazed at Thailand's inability to take care of poor people and people with health problems need to spend a night walking around in Washington DC, or Chicago, or New York City.

Yet another utterly facile argument - what has that got to do with anything???

We all know that the US has the worst health care in the "Western" world but that does not justify Thailand's ineptness to supply proper healthcare for its citizens or others to criticise the government's failure or two faced approach.

Amazing you make a observation that it is better here than in many first world countries and some one jumps on you. In all likely hood that person would be calling for Thailand to be as good as the western countries if they were in fact worse.

[What has failure or two faced approach]

got to do with any thing it is a new program that has not even started yet and you like so many other Thai Bashers can't wait to get in and condemn it. Did it ever dawn on you you might be rite then your negativity would be correct as is you are clueless.

For once Thailand has a PM who is actually willing to try. Give him a chance.:jap:

Should it not be: 'give him another chance'. ?

Along with the wish for another chance I propose that you give him some hints on how to become the 'defacto' leader.

[jayjay0]

<br>

<br>

<br>There's always someone who thinks that some or all beggars aren't "genuine" whatever that is.<br>THe truth is that in a society like /Thailand poverty is not far away wherever you are and ask youself, do you really think these beggars LIKE their work - would YOU like to sit in the road all day?<br>THe fact is that begging genuine or not only exists if poverty exists and "clearing the streets" won't make the problem go awayIt won't work and will create other problems especially in a country where corruption is rife.<br>One HAS to go to the causes of this poverty.<br>

<br><br><br>good points on the fail of trickle down. really things cost only what people are willing to pay for them.<br>However it is true a lot of those beggars don't wanna work. they're often on Thai Tv programs caught faking or feigning. others are hitting the jackpot beggin' and would rather do that than work. the ones who are really filthy and mental are the ones in need of help, not those middle aged to 50ish women with food and fresh pressed clothes posin' with a kid.<br><br>every country has its homeless I suppose, though I see few with so many fakers and unmotivated as I do here.<br>

<br><br>THis is pathetic!<br>Of corse there are fakes, but don't you see how useful they are ? people who want to have some kind of campaign against beggars without actually tackling the causes love to do exposees of "fakes" - this then changes the public perception and sympathies.<br>I would have thought that the average westerner would have been familiar with this by now

<br

The average westerner dosen't live in Thailand and he she only visits for a short time of the year.

As far as the fall down trickle what you say is true in about 1% of Thailand. There are many places where they hardly ever see a foreigner unless he is traveling through. How does that affect the price of there home or the cost of rice for them.

I am having a hard time believing the cost of housing is high because of all the foreigners paying way to much for there house in Issan

Edited December 11, 2010 by jayjay0

[Deeral]

There's always someone who thinks that some or all beggars aren't "genuine" whatever that is.

THe truth is that in a society like /Thailand poverty is not far away wherever you are and ask youself, do you really think these beggars LIKE their work - would YOU like to sit in the road all day?

THe fact is that begging genuine or not only exists if poverty exists and "clearing the streets" won't make the problem go awayIt won't work and will create other problems especially in a country where corruption is rife.

One HAS to go to the causes of this poverty.

good points on the fail of trickle down. really things cost only what people are willing to pay for them.

However it is true a lot of those beggars don't wanna work. they're often on Thai Tv programs caught faking or feigning. others are hitting the jackpot beggin' and would rather do that than work. the ones who are really filthy and mental are the ones in need of help, not those middle aged to 50ish women with food and fresh pressed clothes posin' with a kid.

every country has its homeless I suppose, though I see few with so many fakers and unmotivated as I do here.

THis is pathetic!

Of corse there are fakes, but don't you see how useful they are ? people who want to have some kind of campaign against beggars without actually tackling the causes love to do exposees of "fakes" - this then changes the public perception and sympathies.

I would have thought that the average westerner would have been familiar with this by now

I am quite familiar. What is your genius solution then, in all of your arrogance and knowledge and expertise?

Only a complete fool would think there is a "genius solution"

[Deeral]

<br>

<br>

<br>There's always someone who thinks that some or all beggars aren't "genuine" whatever that is.<br>THe truth is that in a society like /Thailand poverty is not far away wherever you are and ask youself, do you really think these beggars LIKE their work - would YOU like to sit in the road all day?<br>THe fact is that begging genuine or not only exists if poverty exists and "clearing the streets" won't make the problem go awayIt won't work and will create other problems especially in a country where corruption is rife.<br>One HAS to go to the causes of this poverty.<br>

<br><br><br>good points on the fail of trickle down. really things cost only what people are willing to pay for them.<br>However it is true a lot of those beggars don't wanna work. they're often on Thai Tv programs caught faking or feigning. others are hitting the jackpot beggin' and would rather do that than work. the ones who are really filthy and mental are the ones in need of help, not those middle aged to 50ish women with food and fresh pressed clothes posin' with a kid.<br><br>every country has its homeless I suppose, though I see few with so many fakers and unmotivated as I do here.<br>

<br><br>THis is pathetic!<br>Of corse there are fakes, but don't you see how useful they are ? people who want to have some kind of campaign against beggars without actually tackling the causes love to do exposees of "fakes" - this then changes the public perception and sympathies.<br>I would have thought that the average westerner would have been familiar with this by now

<br

The average westerner dosen't live in Thailand and he she only visits for a short time of the year.

As far as the fall down trickle what you say is true in about 1% of Thailand. There are many places where they hardly ever see a foreigner unless he is traveling through. How does that affect the price of there home or the cost of rice for them.

I am having a hard time believing the cost of housing is high because of all the foreigners paying way to much for there house in Issan

THere's quite a large body of research now that might help you believe it.

as for the money that foreigners bring in, the way that Thai society is structured around graft and nepotism ensures that any trickel-down is stemmed immediately and the cash goes to feather the nests of the already rich.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Deeral

[tbeaver]

According to DR.Duangta Kraiphasphong, a surge in blood sugar sometimes causes "diabetics to go on rampages and attack others in the public" . I was curious, having never heard of this phenonemon before, so I googled the words 'aggressive diabetic'......not one single search result.!!....No wonder the 'doctors' in this country don't want the medical malpractice bill to go through if a deputy director (DR Duangta) of an institute can't even get the symptoms for diabetes right. I feel so sorry for the Thai public.

Try a search on "diabetic, sugar, irrational" and you'll see a number of hits. Diabetics' blood sugar level can swing high and low, and severe, irrational mood swings can occur when sugar levels vary greatly.

[jayjay0]

All of you who are so amazed at Thailand's inability to take care of poor people and people with health problems need to spend a night walking around in Washington DC, or Chicago, or New York City.

Yet another utterly facile argument - what has that got to do with anything???

We all know that the US has the worst health care in the "Western" world but that does not justify Thailand's ineptness to supply proper healthcare for its citizens or others to criticise the government's failure or two faced approach.

Amazing you make a observation that it is better here than in many first world countries and some one jumps on you. In all likely hood that person would be calling for Thailand to be as good as the western countries if they were in fact worse.

[What has failure or two faced approach]

got to do with any thing it is a new program that has not even started yet and you like so many other Thai Bashers can't wait to get in and condemn it. Did it ever dawn on you you might be rite then your negativity would be correct as is you are clueless.

For once Thailand has a PM who is actually willing to try. Give him a chance.:jap:

Should it not be: 'give him another chance'. ?

Along with the wish for another chance I propose that you give him some hints on how to become the 'defacto' leader.

The red shirts never really gave him a chance.

Also it might come as a surprise but there are a lot of things to work on. Not just one. As I have said give him a chance. He might only be here for another six or seven months. Hope I am wrong. By the way I really don't like him but he is the only candidate on the scene qualified to leed Thailand.

[Deeral]

According to DR.Duangta Kraiphasphong, a surge in blood sugar sometimes causes "diabetics to go on rampages and attack others in the public" . I was curious, having never heard of this phenonemon before, so I googled the words 'aggressive diabetic'......not one single search result.!!....No wonder the 'doctors' in this country don't want the medical malpractice bill to go through if a deputy director (DR Duangta) of an institute can't even get the symptoms for diabetes right. I feel so sorry for the Thai public.

Try a search on "diabetic, sugar, irrational" and you'll see a number of hits. Diabetics' blood sugar level can swing high and low, and severe, irrational mood swings can occur when sugar levels vary greatly.

Maybe the good Doctor would care to cite some cases - or maybe he's just a crank or a charlatan? making a pronouncement to back up his own desire to clear the streets of beggars that are a result of the system that put him where he is and the beggars where they are?

[TAWP]

THose of you who think your "wealth" from abroad is helping out in any significant way - forget it.

trickle dopwn theory is a joke - it doesn't happen

What you actually do is PUT PRICES UP - you pay too much for your housing, food and everything you are old and put a strain on the health care (and put the prices up there too) - in fact in many ways you are a pain in the arse when it comes to the average low income Thai trying to scrape a living.

You not only discard economical theory but you also make up a scenario that is far from the average nor applicable in the grand scheme of things.

Listen, if you really think that the overall housing prices are being pushed up by some expats getting their source of income from outside the country - well, that is misinformed and only applicable to very few regions/streets. Not at all on a national level.

Secondary, it isn't even relevant to the discussion - as income from house's are taxable, this will *increase* the tax-revenue the government receives than if the prices was very low.

You post is just a confused mish-mash of thrown out 'sound-bites' without basis in reality.

If you want to argue the pitfalls of having expats that bring in money from abroad to the nation (therefor increasing the amount of money the nation has within its borders), then by all means, open a new thread.

Your post still don't disprove the fact that 1) foreigners pay tax here 2) even those without local income pay tax via purchases here, ergo, there is no need for 'widening the tax base by taxing foreigners' (can someone please define how does would be done?) as we already are.

[JamesMemphis]

What a crock of sh*t. These people will end up handcuffed in local jails like the recent case of the Briton in Pattaya.

As of 2006, the most recent WHO report shows that;

- There are only 17 mental hospitals in Thailand providing 13.8 beds per 100,000 population. In the last five years the number of mental hospital beds has decreased by 7% (There has not been any significant increase in funding since the report was issued in 2006.)

- There is no provision for routine follow-up community care.

- No facility has mental heath mobile clinic teams.

- In terms of treatment, a few patients last year received one or more psychosocial interventions.

- There are no mental health day treatment facilities in Thailand, except the ones specifically for children with mental retardation or for people with substance abuse.

- There are 25 community-based psychiatric inpatient units in regional hospitals with 0.4 beds per 100,000 general population.

- Community residential facilities for patients being discharged from the hospitals do not exist.

Who will take care of these mentally ill people?

- 419 psychiatrists (0.66 per 100,000 population)

- 110 other medical doctors (not specialized in psychiatry but associated with mental health care); 0.17 per 100,000 population);

- 2406 nurses (3.81 per 100,000 population);

- 163 psychologists (0.26 per 100,000 population);

- 465 social workers (0.74 per 100,000 population) (Other reports cite 0.56)

- 125 occupational therapists (0.20 per 100,000 population

The numbers speak for themselves. The mentally ill will not be treated.

There will be no occupational therapy and the problem will continue.

That is the reality. Welcome to Thailand where people that should know better call the mentally ill nutcases.

Another headline grabbing promise as elections are due - let's say this week we will fix the social issues, that should get some votes (not).

[JamesMemphis]

What a crock of sh*t. These people will end up handcuffed in local jails like the recent case of the Briton in Pattaya.

As of 2006, the most recent WHO report shows that;

- There are only 17 mental hospitals in Thailand providing 13.8 beds per 100,000 population. In the last five years the number of mental hospital beds has decreased by 7% (There has not been any significant increase in funding since the report was issued in 2006.)

- There is no provision for routine follow-up community care.

- No facility has mental heath mobile clinic teams.

- In terms of treatment, a few patients last year received one or more psychosocial interventions.

- There are no mental health day treatment facilities in Thailand, except the ones specifically for children with mental retardation or for people with substance abuse.

- There are 25 community-based psychiatric inpatient units in regional hospitals with 0.4 beds per 100,000 general population.

- Community residential facilities for patients being discharged from the hospitals do not exist.

Who will take care of these mentally ill people?

- 419 psychiatrists (0.66 per 100,000 population)

- 110 other medical doctors (not specialized in psychiatry but associated with mental health care); 0.17 per 100,000 population);

- 2406 nurses (3.81 per 100,000 population);

- 163 psychologists (0.26 per 100,000 population);

- 465 social workers (0.74 per 100,000 population) (Other reports cite 0.56)

- 125 occupational therapists (0.20 per 100,000 population

The numbers speak for themselves. The mentally ill will not be treated.

There will be no occupational therapy and the problem will continue.

That is the reality. Welcome to Thailand where people that should know better call the mentally ill nutcases.

Another headline grabbing promise as elections are due - let's say this week we will fix the social issues, that should get some votes (not).

I second...What a CROCK...How can anybody believe this job retraing BS. Here is your knife...there is the pineapple...get busy!

[spirit47]

According to DR.Duangta Kraiphasphong, a surge in blood sugar sometimes causes "diabetics to go on rampages and attack others in the public" . I was curious, having never heard of this phenonemon before, so I googled the words 'aggressive diabetic'......not one single search result.!!....No wonder the 'doctors' in this country don't want the medical malpractice bill to go through if a deputy director (DR Duangta) of an institute can't even get the symptoms for diabetes right. I feel so sorry for the Thai public.

Hypoglycemia

Hypoglycaemia means in medicine low blood sugar / glucose level in the blood (colloquially low blood sugar). The symptoms of anxiety or go binge on slightly reduced brain performance over aggressiveness to seizure, or shock, depending on the degree of hypoglycemia. In hypoglycaemia decreases the sugar content in the body so far that the viability of the cells is affected. Hypoglycemia may depend from their extent and repeated occurrence of damage to the brain even lead to death. More often, death does not occur by hypoglycaemia, but by the consequences of losing control. With increasing clouding of consciousness, it is - similar to alcohol intoxication - to severe falls or traffic accidents, due to aspiration due to lack of protective reflexes can suffocate the person.

[geriatrickid]

A couple questions have been asked;

1. Where did I source the Thailand information? I apologize for the delay, but I needed to find an online copy;

Source: http://rochr.qrc.com/bitstream/123456789/318/1/WHO-AIMS_Report_Mental%20H%20system_Thailand2007.pdf

2. How does Thailand compare to others?

Poorly, if one wishes to compare to the developed world. Not too well, but similar if one compares to a wealthier neighbour like Malaysia. Compared to oil rich nations like Qatar and Iran, Thailand isn't that bad.

Total Psychiatric beds per100,000 patient Thailand: 13.8--- USA: 77--- Canada:193 ---Malaysia: 27 - Qatar 9.7---I Israel: 81 -- -Iran: 16

Psychiatrists per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.66 ---USA: 13.7--- Canada:12--- Malaysia 0.6--- Qatar3.4 --- Israel 13.7 --Iran:1.9

Psychologists per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.26 -- USA: 31.1-- Canada: 35 -- Malaysia: 0.05-- Qatar 1.2 --- Israel 35.6---Iran: 2

Social workers per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.74 --- USA: 35.3--- Canada: 122 --- Malaysia 0.2 - -Qatar 10---Israel 35.1 --Iran: 0.6

Occupational therapists per 100,000 pop. Thailand: 0.236 --- USA: 39 --Canada: N/A ---Malaysia :0.005 -- Qatar none---Israel 6.6 --Iran: N/A

It's all about treatment approaches. Canada has a high bed count because of its geography. People in the far north and rural areas are sent to treatment centers since the mental health care cannot be provided in communites of a few hundred people. That's why the bed count is bloated. However, the numbers clearly show that Thailand doesn't have the professionals to deliver the treatment. It is unfair to dump patients on them. People will be warehoused, not treated.

In Thailand, if one is poor or in a rural area, there is limited if any, availability of mental health care.

In plain language, if located outside a major urban area like KK, BKK, HKT, CNX, the patient is on his.her own. Not much different than living in small town USA/Canada/Australia, or Wales. However, there are compensation methods in the west: The first responders are now receiving training or have already been trained. The mishmash of volunteer ambulance chasers in Thailand haven't a clue of what to do. The police, certainly are useless.

Keep in mind that social services and mental health care are strongly integrated in the western model. There will usually be trained counsellors within the school systems and local health care facilities so intervention can be launched before the patient's problem worsens. In Thailand, the problem has to be serious before there is action. Again, there is the demonstration of prevention vs.treatment philosophy.

Another point to keep in mind is that primary care physicians in Thailand dispense powerful drugs that would only be dispensed by trained specialists in the west. The result is that there is a large part of the population poorly medicated. That is why the examples cited by others are believable. Typically in Thailand, a general nurse will see a mental patient and a general physician will sign the script without more than a cursory visit. It's all about scarce resources. Thailand, doesn't invest in health care, both by choice and because of circumstance. It does the best with what it has. There is a perception barrier to becoming a mental health care professional in Thailand, much as there is a barrier in the west to becoming a geriatric health care provider. In a crude way, it is a parallel dilemma.

No wonder, mental health care wasn't included in the planned Medical Hub venture.

Edited December 11, 2010 by geriatrickid

[KhunAussie52]

A couple questions have been asked;

1. Where did I source the Thailand information? I apologize for the delay, but I needed to find an online copy;

Source: http://rochr.qrc.com/bitstream/123456789/318/1/WHO-AIMS_Report_Mental%20H%20system_Thailand2007.pdf

2. How does Thailand compare to others?

Poorly, if one wishes to compare to the developed world. Not too well, but similar if one compares to a wealthier neighbour like Malaysia. Compared to oil rich nations like Qatar and Iran, Thailand isn't that bad.

Total Psychiatric beds per100,000 patient Thailand: 13.8--- USA: 77--- Canada:193 ---Malaysia: 27 - Qatar 9.7---I Israel: 81 -- -Iran: 16

Psychiatrists per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.66 ---USA: 13.7--- Canada:12--- Malaysia 0.6--- Qatar3.4 --- Israel 13.7 --Iran:1.9

Psychologists per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.26 -- USA: 31.1-- Canada: 35 -- Malaysia: 0.05-- Qatar 1.2 --- Israel 35.6---Iran: 2

Social workers per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.74 --- USA: 35.3--- Canada: 122 --- Malaysia 0.2 - -Qatar 10---Israel 35.1 --Iran: 0.6

Occupational therapists per 100,000 pop. Thailand: 0.236 --- USA: 39 --Canada: N/A ---Malaysia :0.005 -- Qatar none---Israel 6.6 --Iran: N/A

It's all about treatment approaches. Canada has a high bed count because of its geography. People in the far north and rural areas are sent to treatment centers since the mental health care cannot be provided in communites of a few hundred people. That's why the bed count is bloated. However, the numbers clearly show that Thailand doesn't have the professionals to deliver the treatment. It is unfair to dump patients on them. People will be warehoused, not treated.

In Thailand, if one is poor or in a rural area, there is limited if any, availability of mental health care.

In plain language, if located outside a major urban area like KK, BKK, HKT, CNX, the patient is on his.her own. Not much different than living in small town USA/Canada/Australia, or Wales. However, there are compensation methods in the west: The first responders are now receiving training or have already been trained. The mishmash of volunteer ambulance chasers in Thailand haven't a clue of what to do. The police, certainly are useless.

Keep in mind that social services and mental health care are strongly integrated in the western model. There will usually be trained counsellors within the school systems and local health care facilities so intervention can be launched before the patient's problem worsens. In Thailand, the problem has to be serious before there is action. Again, there is the demonstration of prevention vs.treatment philosophy.

Another point to keep in mind is that primary care physicians in Thailand dispense powerful drugs that would only be dispensed by trained specialists in the west. The result is that there is a large part of the population poorly medicated. That is why the examples cited by others are believable. Typically in Thailand, a general nurse will see a mental patient and a general physician will sign the script without more than a cursory visit. It's all about scarce resources. Thailand, doesn't invest in health care, both by choice and because of circumstance. It does the best with what it has. There is a perception barrier to becoming a mental health care professional in Thailand, much as there is a barrier in the west to becoming a geriatric health care provider. In a crude way, it is a parallel dilemma.

No wonder, mental health care wasn't included in the planned Medical Hub venture.

Well written and researched......thanks :jap:

[Deeral]

THose of you who think your "wealth" from abroad is helping out in any significant way - forget it.

trickle dopwn theory is a joke - it doesn't happen

What you actually do is PUT PRICES UP - you pay too much for your housing, food and everything you are old and put a strain on the health care (and put the prices up there too) - in fact in many ways you are a pain in the arse when it comes to the average low income Thai trying to scrape a living.

You not only discard economical theory but you also make up a scenario that is far from the average nor applicable in the grand scheme of things.

Listen, if you really think that the overall housing prices are being pushed up by some expats getting their source of income from outside the country - well, that is misinformed and only applicable to very few regions/streets. Not at all on a national level.

Secondary, it isn't even relevant to the discussion - as income from house's are taxable, this will *increase* the tax-revenue the government receives than if the prices was very low.

You post is just a confused mish-mash of thrown out 'sound-bites' without basis in reality.

If you want to argue the pitfalls of having expats that bring in money from abroad to the nation (therefor increasing the amount of money the nation has within its borders), then by all means, open a new thread.

Your post still don't disprove the fact that 1) foreigners pay tax here 2) even those without local income pay tax via purchases here, ergo, there is no need for 'widening the tax base by taxing foreigners' (can someone please define how does would be done?) as we already are.

Rubbish! - you talk like a labourer

[Deeral]

A couple questions have been asked;

1. Where did I source the Thailand information? I apologize for the delay, but I needed to find an online copy;

Source: http://rochr.qrc.com/bitstream/123456789/318/1/WHO-AIMS_Report_Mental%20H%20system_Thailand2007.pdf

2. How does Thailand compare to others?

Poorly, if one wishes to compare to the developed world. Not too well, but similar if one compares to a wealthier neighbour like Malaysia. Compared to oil rich nations like Qatar and Iran, Thailand isn't that bad.

Total Psychiatric beds per100,000 patient Thailand: 13.8--- USA: 77--- Canada:193 ---Malaysia: 27 - Qatar 9.7---I Israel: 81 -- -Iran: 16

Psychiatrists per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.66 ---USA: 13.7--- Canada:12--- Malaysia 0.6--- Qatar3.4 --- Israel 13.7 --Iran:1.9

Psychologists per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.26 -- USA: 31.1-- Canada: 35 -- Malaysia: 0.05-- Qatar 1.2 --- Israel 35.6---Iran: 2

Social workers per 100,000 population Thailand: 0.74 --- USA: 35.3--- Canada: 122 --- Malaysia 0.2 - -Qatar 10---Israel 35.1 --Iran: 0.6

Occupational therapists per 100,000 pop. Thailand: 0.236 --- USA: 39 --Canada: N/A ---Malaysia :0.005 -- Qatar none---Israel 6.6 --Iran: N/A

It's all about treatment approaches. Canada has a high bed count because of its geography. People in the far north and rural areas are sent to treatment centers since the mental health care cannot be provided in communites of a few hundred people. That's why the bed count is bloated. However, the numbers clearly show that Thailand doesn't have the professionals to deliver the treatment. It is unfair to dump patients on them. People will be warehoused, not treated.

In Thailand, if one is poor or in a rural area, there is limited if any, availability of mental health care.

In plain language, if located outside a major urban area like KK, BKK, HKT, CNX, the patient is on his.her own. Not much different than living in small town USA/Canada/Australia, or Wales. However, there are compensation methods in the west: The first responders are now receiving training or have already been trained. The mishmash of volunteer ambulance chasers in Thailand haven't a clue of what to do. The police, certainly are useless.

Keep in mind that social services and mental health care are strongly integrated in the western model. There will usually be trained counsellors within the school systems and local health care facilities so intervention can be launched before the patient's problem worsens. In Thailand, the problem has to be serious before there is action. Again, there is the demonstration of prevention vs.treatment philosophy.

Another point to keep in mind is that primary care physicians in Thailand dispense powerful drugs that would only be dispensed by trained specialists in the west. The result is that there is a large part of the population poorly medicated. That is why the examples cited by others are believable. Typically in Thailand, a general nurse will see a mental patient and a general physician will sign the script without more than a cursory visit. It's all about scarce resources. Thailand, doesn't invest in health care, both by choice and because of circumstance. It does the best with what it has. There is a perception barrier to becoming a mental health care professional in Thailand, much as there is a barrier in the west to becoming a geriatric health care provider. In a crude way, it is a parallel dilemma.

No wonder, mental health care wasn't included in the planned Medical Hub venture.

are there similar WHO figures for general healthcare in Thailand?

I suspect that the situation is more or less mirrored in all fields?

[phetaroi]

I've certainly seen many homeless people in various places around Bangkok, and I know that I don't know what the answer is to the problem. Certainly, we Westerners don't have the answers in our own countries.

There are basically two schools of thought. Let them be -- versus -- institutionalize them.

The idea of institutionalizing them seems so cruel. But is it any crueler to leave them to their own fate, where many literally freeze to death every winter as they sleep under bridges in sub-zero weather? Or live their lives as constantly drunk alcoholics? Or die at early ages from any number of fatal diseases that are completely curable, or at least treatable? Or die from drunken fights with other homeless men where they are slashing each other with broken whiskey bottles? Or die from starvation or dehydration? I've seen these things happen.

So if one of you knows the best answer, step forward and speak up. The world is waiting. I certainly haven't seen many real solutions here.

[ryladie99]

What a crock of sh*t. These people will end up handcuffed in local jails like the recent case of the Briton in Pattaya.

As of 2006, the most recent WHO report shows that;

- There are only 17 mental hospitals in Thailand providing 13.8 beds per 100,000 population. In the last five years the number of mental hospital beds has decreased by 7% (There has not been any significant increase in funding since the report was issued in 2006.)

- There is no provision for routine follow-up community care.

- No facility has mental heath mobile clinic teams.

- In terms of treatment, a few patients last year received one or more psychosocial interventions.

- There are no mental health day treatment facilities in Thailand, except the ones specifically for children with mental retardation or for people with substance abuse.

- There are 25 community-based psychiatric inpatient units in regional hospitals with 0.4 beds per 100,000 general population.

- Community residential facilities for patients being discharged from the hospitals do not exist.

Who will take care of these mentally ill people?

- 419 psychiatrists (0.66 per 100,000 population)

- 110 other medical doctors (not specialized in psychiatry but associated with mental health care); 0.17 per 100,000 population);

- 2406 nurses (3.81 per 100,000 population);

- 163 psychologists (0.26 per 100,000 population);

- 465 social workers (0.74 per 100,000 population) (Other reports cite 0.56)

- 125 occupational therapists (0.20 per 100,000 population

The numbers speak for themselves. The mentally ill will not be treated.

There will be no occupational therapy and the problem will continue.

That is the reality. Welcome to Thailand where people that should know better call the mentally ill nutcases.

Wow?? Thank for the information and I am so surprised to see there are so many nice buildings, shopping centers, super markets, fancy hotels and variety of cars. Why not mental institution for mental health population? No money or other issue?? My take.

[geriatrickid]

are there similar WHO figures for general healthcare in Thailand?

I suspect that the situation is more or less mirrored in all fields?

There are but they need to be put in context (no it's not a cop out, honest ) I could dump all sorts of stats, but I think the real issue is that there is an absence of a national policy and a national strategy. It's wonderful to toss money at a problem, but without a plan, the money is wasted. The UK's NHS gets blasted, but despite its failings it still does the job, because it has a plan. When is the last time anyone saw or heard about of a needs analysis before a new hospital or clinic was opened in Thailand?

Thailand has the same medical staffing problem that one sees in Australia, Canada and elsewhere. The contrast in finding solutions speaks volumes. There's little if any public discussion in Thailand. One can't create doctors and nurses overnight, it takes time. Canada's provinces pumped alot of money into medical schools several years ago and now it is beginning to see increases in the number of medical school graduates that is bumping up the per 100K pop ratios. Australia and Canada were aggressive in seeking out foreign trained nurses to fill the gap while they trained new nurses. One can see it in the Philippino faces in hospitals now. And then there is Thailand. Where's the planning, the strategy? It's not there. That's why the GP ratio keeps falling. The Thai medical schools are not part of the national strategy. There are ways to get doctors to practice in rural areas and to consider understaffed specialties. Canada and Australia did it with financial incentives. The incentives aren't there in Thailand. The powers that be in Thailand won't do it. I suppose when one has a an interest in a hospital or an HMO it causes a bit of a conflict. Politicians in Sweden are treated at a public hospital just like politicians in Canada and Australia. That's why they are somewhat more aware of the problems and possible solutions. Politicians in Thailand usually go to exclusive private or military hospitals.

And now we have this silliness with some guy saying he's going to clear the mentally ill off the streets. It's a great idea. Unfortunately, there's nowhere to put these people and there's no one available to treat them.

[jayjay0]

<br><font size="2">A couple questions have been asked;<br>1. Where did I source the Thailand information? I apologize for the delay, but I needed to find an online copy; <br>Source:  </font><a href="http://rochr.qrc.com/bitstream/123456789/318/1/WHO-AIMS_Report_Mental%20H%20system_Thailand2007.pdf" class="bbc_url" title="External link" rel="nofollow external"><font size="2">http://rochr.qrc.com/bitstream/123456789/318/1/WHO-AIMS_Report_Mental%20H%20system_Thailand2007.pdf<br></font></a><br><font size="2">2. How does Thailand compare to others?<br>Poorly,  if one wishes to compare to the developed world. Not too well, but similar if one compares to a wealthier neighbour like Malaysia.  Compared to oil rich nations like Qatar and Iran, Thailand isn't that bad. <br><br></font><font face="Calibri"><font size="3">Total Psychiatric beds per100,000 patient   Thailand: 13.8---  USA:  77---   Canada:193 ---Malaysia:  27  -  Qatar  9.7---I  Israel: 81 -- -Iran: 16</font></font><br><font size="3"> </font><font face="Calibri"><font size="3">Psychiatrists per 100,000 population    Thailand:  0.66 ---USA:  13.7--- Canada:12---   Malaysia  0.6---  Qatar3.4    --- Israel 13.7  --Iran:1.9</font></font><br><font face="Calibri"><font size="3">Psychologists  per 100,000 population         Thailand: 0.26 --  USA: 31.1--  Canada:  35   -- Malaysia:  0.05-- Qatar  1.2 ---  Israel  35.6---Iran: 2</font></font><br><font face="Calibri"><font size="3">Social workers per 100,000 population   Thailand: 0.74 --- USA: 35.3--- Canada:  122 --- Malaysia   0.2 -  -Qatar 10---Israel  35.1  --Iran: 0.6</font></font><br><font face="Calibri"><font size="3">Occupational therapists per 100,000 pop.  Thailand: 0.236 --- USA:  39 --Canada: N/A ---Malaysia :0.005 -- Qatar  none---Israel  6.6</font></font> <font face="Calibri"><font size="3">--Iran: N/A<br><br></font><font face="Arial"><font size="2">It's all about treatment approaches. Canada has a high bed count because of its geography.  People in the far north and rural areas are sent to treatment centers since the  mental health care cannot be provided in communites of a few hundred people. That's why the  bed count is bloated. However, the numbers clearly show that Thailand doesn't have the professionals to deliver the treatment. It is unfair to  dump patients on them. People will be warehoused, not treated.<br><br>In Thailand, if one is poor or in a rural area, there is limited if any, availability of mental health care.  <br>In plain language, if located outside a major urban area like KK, BKK, HKT, CNX, the patient is on his.her own. Not much different than living in small town USA/Canada/Australia, or Wales. However, there are compensation methods in the west: The first responders are now receiving training or have already been trained. The  mishmash of volunteer ambulance chasers in Thailand haven't a clue of what to do. The police, certainly are useless. <br><br>Keep in mind that social services and mental health care are strongly integrated in the western model. There will usually be trained counsellors within the school systems and local  health care facilities so intervention can be launched before the patient's problem worsens. In Thailand, the problem has to be serious before there is action. Again, there is the demonstration of  prevention vs.treatment philosophy.<br><br>Another point to keep in mind is that primary care physicians in Thailand dispense powerful drugs that would only be dispensed by trained specialists in the west. The result is that there is a large part of the population poorly medicated. That is why the examples cited by others are believable. Typically in Thailand, a general nurse will see a  mental patient and a general physician will sign the script without more than a cursory visit.  It's all about scarce resources. Thailand, doesn't invest in health care, both by choice and because of circumstance. It does the best with what it has. There is a perception barrier to becoming a mental health care professional in Thailand, much as there is a barrier in the west to  becoming a geriatric health care provider. In a crude way, it is a parallel dilemma. <br><br><br><br>No wonder, mental health care wasn't included in the planned Medical Hub venture. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""> <br><br></font></font></font><br>

<br><br>

I can't really comment about Canada as a whole but I can about British Columbia. Two of the biggest institutions closed down and many of the clients found themselves on the street. I think you might want to take a look at the date of your information. Also who compiled it and what they are trying to sell. I learned that from my criminology instructor.

Also many of those who went to special homes eventually found there way to the street after having successfully completed there therapy there.

They have one big institution there and it is deplorable. Just because it is in Canada does not make it good. They have patients wandering around all drugged up just as they do here in Thailand.

Hate to mention it but the article was about street people and not all of them are deranged to the point where they need institutionalizing. If memory serves that is the goal to help all the street people. Not to happy to see crack down instead of help but I don't think like a Thai.

Not sure what geography has to do with it. Doe's that mean Russia has a lot of beds?

Edited December 12, 2010 by jayjay0

[samjaidee]

What a crock of sh*t. These people will end up handcuffed in local jails like the recent case of the Briton in Pattaya.

As of 2006, the most recent WHO report shows that;

- There are only 17 mental hospitals in Thailand providing 13.8 beds per 100,000 population. In the last five years the number of mental hospital beds has decreased by 7% (There has not been any significant increase in funding since the report was issued in 2006.)

- There is no provision for routine follow-up community care.

- No facility has mental heath mobile clinic teams.

- In terms of treatment, a few patients last year received one or more psychosocial interventions.

- There are no mental health day treatment facilities in Thailand, except the ones specifically for children with mental retardation or for people with substance abuse.

- There are 25 community-based psychiatric inpatient units in regional hospitals with 0.4 beds per 100,000 general population.

- Community residential facilities for patients being discharged from the hospitals do not exist.

Who will take care of these mentally ill people?

- 419 psychiatrists (0.66 per 100,000 population)

- 110 other medical doctors (not specialized in psychiatry but associated with mental health care); 0.17 per 100,000 population);

- 2406 nurses (3.81 per 100,000 population);

- 163 psychologists (0.26 per 100,000 population);

- 465 social workers (0.74 per 100,000 population) (Other reports cite 0.56)

- 125 occupational therapists (0.20 per 100,000 population

The numbers speak for themselves. The mentally ill will not be treated.

There will be no occupational therapy and the problem will continue.

That is the reality. Welcome to Thailand where people that should know better call the mentally ill nutcases.

Unfortunately the numbers don't speak for themselves unless you have another set of data for comparison. Do you have comparable data for a Western country? Any one will do!

Sure the numbers look low, but how low are they really?

[samjaidee]

are there similar WHO figures for general healthcare in Thailand?

I suspect that the situation is more or less mirrored in all fields?

There are but they need to be put in context (no it's not a cop out, honest ) I could dump all sorts of stats, but I think the real issue is that there is an absence of a national policy and a national strategy. It's wonderful to toss money at a problem, but without a plan, the money is wasted. The UK's NHS gets blasted, but despite its failings it still does the job, because it has a plan. When is the last time anyone saw or heard about of a needs analysis before a new hospital or clinic was opened in Thailand?

Thailand has the same medical staffing problem that one sees in Australia, Canada and elsewhere. The contrast in finding solutions speaks volumes. There's little if any public discussion in Thailand. One can't create doctors and nurses overnight, it takes time. Canada's provinces pumped alot of money into medical schools several years ago and now it is beginning to see increases in the number of medical school graduates that is bumping up the per 100K pop ratios. Australia and Canada were aggressive in seeking out foreign trained nurses to fill the gap while they trained new nurses. One can see it in the Philippino faces in hospitals now. And then there is Thailand. Where's the planning, the strategy? It's not there. That's why the GP ratio keeps falling. The Thai medical schools are not part of the national strategy. There are ways to get doctors to practice in rural areas and to consider understaffed specialties. Canada and Australia did it with financial incentives. The incentives aren't there in Thailand. The powers that be in Thailand won't do it. I suppose when one has a an interest in a hospital or an HMO it causes a bit of a conflict. Politicians in Sweden are treated at a public hospital just like politicians in Canada and Australia. That's why they are somewhat more aware of the problems and possible solutions. Politicians in Thailand usually go to exclusive private or military hospitals.

And now we have this silliness with some guy saying he's going to clear the mentally ill off the streets. It's a great idea. Unfortunately, there's nowhere to put these people and there's no one available to treat them.

Amazing research, thanks.

You don't happen to have "Mental Health" figures for the UK do you?

Thank you, in anticipation.

[geriatrickid]

You don't happen to have "Mental Health" figures for the UK do you?

Thank you, in anticipation.

I'm just pulling the numbers out of my handy dandy atlas. Depending upon the year, the numbers can be up or down a bit in the UK. Retirements, redundancies and all that stuff.

In Total

UK: 58 beds per 100,000 population 11 psychiatrists per 100,000 population, 58 social workers per 100,000 , 9 psychologists per 100,000 population

Thailand: 14 beds per 100,000 population, 0.66 psychiatrists per 100,000 population, 0.74 social workers per 100,000 population, 0.26 psychologists per 100,000 population;

Clarification: The UK also has a number of other specialists involved which accounts for the apparent lower numbers in some areas compared to other countries. For example, there are 104 psychiatric nurses per 100,000 population. I know people slam the UK alot, but the number of social workers and nurses available for mental health speak to the team approach that the UK has. It's not perfect, but I think it's the right way to do it. There just isn't a pool of psychiatric nurses in Thailand to pick up the slack. Sort of like how there is a real shortage of geriatric care nursing staff in the west.