Reluctant Retiree New Leader Of Thailand's Red Shirts - AFP Interview

[hanuman1]

I've always thought if the government could have a decent PR campaign in rural areas to highlight what they're doing for the poor folks out there, they'd have no trouble (in terms of political power - not violence) whatsoever from PTP or UDD. Why aren't they doing it?

Bingo You win the prize why aren't they doing it.

The reality is they are helping far more than Thaksin ever did why aren't they getting the word out.

Yes, the govt is making moves to create better equity. Many pro-red Thais I know just refuse to acknowledge this. When pressed further, they say that Abhisit is good at talking but that's it. When pressed further still, they acknowledge that Abhisit actually is trying to help them, but that Abhisit is not in charge of government affairs - even though he is!

There is a very good reason that they are unable to campaign properly in many rural areas (read "north and north-east") - intimidation. Although Mr. Andrew Walker, associate of Thaivisa member and "New Mandala" blogger Nick Nostitz and Thai fugitive "UDD spokesman" (according to the BBC when he was interviewed in May) Ji Ungpakorn, states otherwise...

Second, the election seemed to be conducted in an atmosphere free of intimidation and threat. Opposition electoral material was widely displayed and distributed. Local people, including many in key government and private enterprise positions, spoke freely about their dislike of the Thaksin government.

Which goes against everything else I've ever read, heard or seen about the 2005 elections! (Actually, if I remember right, pre-2006, pre-UDD and pre-DAAD the Red Shirts were Thaksin's electoral intimidation militia who were responsible for making sure that the locals were aware that the evil Dems from BKK or the elite PAD will get a good kicking whenever they come up to Isaan.) Maybe I remembered it all wrong and some nice TV poster can correct me

Could someone please remind us of at least some of the policies/projects that have already been delivered by this government with the intention of improving the lives of poor rural dwellers, and (if possible) whether or not they've been successful.

We should then be able to see more clearly what they should be grateful to the Dems for so far. Abhisit's intentions are laudable, but effective delivery is a whole other issue.

Cheers.

[Buchholz]

You are responsible for putting yourself (and your human shield toddler son, if you brought him there, too) at a rally of a group with a prior history of violence and who are making violent-tainted speeches in front of you.

Why are you doing this? Deliberately choosing a particularly emotive event (the guy with the kid at the tyre wall) just because you saw one or two - hell, maybe even three - photos of it being done, and applying it in a fashion that suggests any red-shirt could be capable of doing that.

The photo I've posted of the toddler earlier is certainly not unique. The use of human shields, be they children or old women, by the Reds has been repeatedly reported on in local and international media. Was the usage of such underhanded tactics ever condemned by the Red Leaders? Were there any repercussion from the Reds for those that were responsible? Never heard a peep out of them over the issue.

You accuse me and others of 'ad hominem' attacks but the way you characterize thousands of people is beneath contempt. And you know exactly what you are doing. Shameful and calculatedly devisive.

Thank you for proving my accusations of repeated personal attacks, the majority of which are decidedly by posters of the Red persuasion, are accurate.

.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Buchholz

[hanuman1]

You are responsible for putting yourself (and your human shield toddler son, if you brought him there, too) at a rally of a group with a prior history of violence and who are making violent-tainted speeches in front of you.

Why are you doing this? Deliberately choosing a particularly emotive event (the guy with the kid at the tyre wall) just because you saw one or two - hell, maybe even three - photos of it being done, and applying it in a fashion that suggests any red-shirt could be capable of doing that.

The photo I've posted of the toddler earlier is certainly not unique. The use of human shields, be they children or old women, by the Reds has been repeatedly reported on in local and international media. Was the usage of such underhanded tactics ever condemned by the Red Leaders? Were there any repercussion from the Reds for those that were responsible? Never heard a peep out of them over the issue.

You accuse me and others of 'ad hominem' attacks but the way you characterize thousands of people is beneath contempt. And you know exactly what you are doing. Shameful and calculatedly devisive.

Thank you for proving my accusations of repeated personal attacks, the majority of which are decidedly by posters of the Red persuasion, are accurate.

.

Don't mention it. My pleasure.

You attack thousands of people who you don't personally know whereas those who attack you on this forum have taken the time to find out exactly what you're about.

You keep bringing up newspaper articles and photos to lend a veneer of respectability to your bigotted views but I have proof to back up my views about you too. It's plastered all over this forum.

[rubl]

One of the deputies of the reluctant retiree new leader of Thailand's red-shirts, the well-know k. Somyos of the June 24 faction seems to have gone off in a different direction. From a newsflash today:

""Apichart's negligence has derailed the judicial review, hence causing the Democrats to elude punishment," he said.

After meeting with police, he said his faction would launch a signature campaign to initiate the impeachment proceedings for the five-member Election Commission, including Apichart.

Next week his faction plans to petition for the EC to rectify its flawed proceedings in order to seek a new round of judicial review against the Democrats, he said."

Nothing wrong with that, but only slightly misleading and suggestive. For one as the cases were dropped, the Dem's are still to be considered innocent and therefore saying 'eluded punishment' is incorrect. A new round of judicial reviews sounds nice, but the 'double jeopardy' clause would make that illegal (assuming we have such a clause in Thai law).

Just to seek a renewed EC seems proper though, too many accusations from many sides leave them without much standing. Who next to appoint for the EC will be an interesting exercise in 'democracy'

Edited December 16, 2010 by rubl

[whybother]

One of the deputies of the reluctant retiree new leader of Thailand's red-shirts, the well-know k. Somyos of the June 24 faction seems to have gone off in a different direction. From a newsflash today:

""Apichart's negligence has derailed the judicial review, hence causing the Democrats to elude punishment," he said.

After meeting with police, he said his faction would launch a signature campaign to initiate the impeachment proceedings for the five-member Election Commission, including Apichart.

Next week his faction plans to petition for the EC to rectify its flawed proceedings in order to seek a new round of judicial review against the Democrats, he said."

Nothing wrong with that, but only slightly misleading and suggestive. For one as the cases were dropped, the Dem's are still to be considered innocent and therefore saying 'eluded punishment' is incorrect. A new round of judicial reviews sounds nice, but the 'double jeopardy' clause would make that illegal (assuming we have such a clause in Thai law).

Just to seek a renewed EC seems proper though, too many accusations from many sides leave them without much standing. Who next to appoint for the EC will be an interesting exercise in 'democracy'

You've got it all wrong. As far as the red shirts are concerned, the Democrats must be guilty, otherwise it's double standards. It's got nothing to do with them doing anything illegal.

Edited December 16, 2010 by whybother

[473geo]

For myself I'm waiting for a group to rise who denounces the violence on all sides and genuinely speak the problems of the poor and talk about it. If this group does ever arise i will support them all the way.

I think the realistically closest thing we have is the Abhisit government. The poor need to realize this and vote accordingly.

I've always thought if the government could have a decent PR campaign in rural areas to highlight what they're doing for the poor folks out there, they'd have no trouble (in terms of political power - not violence) whatsoever from PTP or UDD. Why aren't they doing it?

Bingo You win the prize why aren't they doing it.

The reality is they are helping far more than Thaksin ever did why aren't they getting the word out.

Perhaps there is a history that suggests an attempt to provide too much assistance, encouragement and stimulus for the rural population may limit the term of a political party?

[Buchholz]

Why are you doing this? Deliberately choosing a particularly emotive event (the guy with the kid at the tyre wall) just because you saw one or two - hell, maybe even three - photos of it being done, and applying it in a fashion that suggests any red-shirt could be capable of doing that.

The photo I've posted of the toddler earlier is certainly not unique. The use of human shields, be they children or old women, by the Reds has been repeatedly reported on in local and international media. Was the usage of such underhanded tactics ever condemned by the Red Leaders? Were there any repercussion from the Reds for those that were responsible? Never heard a peep out of them over the issue.

You accuse me and others of 'ad hominem' attacks but the way you characterize thousands of people is beneath contempt. And you know exactly what you are doing. Shameful and calculatedly devisive.

Thank you for proving my accusations of repeated personal attacks, the majority of which are decidedly by posters of the Red persuasion, are accurate.

Don't mention it. My pleasure.

You attack thousands of people who you don't personally know whereas those who attack you on this forum have taken the time to find out exactly what you're about.

You keep bringing up newspaper articles and photos to lend a veneer of respectability to your bigotted views but I have proof to back up my views about you too. It's plastered all over this forum.

At least you admit to your flamings now, rather trying to downplay them as you did earlier.

As far as you taking the time to find out exactly what I'm about, what on Earth are you talking about? What exactly do you know about me? Pretty much diddly squat.

Additionally, let's see your "proof" where I attacked thousands of people.

Do I attack individual Red Leaders and their financier Thaksin? Do I attack other Reds who are involved with violence? You bet I do.

When I post newspapers that support my views or opinions, it's reflective of my views being shared by many. It also shows my opinions tend to be based on factual reporting of real events written by media from around the world.

Could you explain how my views are "bigotted", preferably in a less inflammatory manner than calling them bigoted?

.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Buchholz

[rubl]

One of the deputies of the reluctant retiree new leader of Thailand's red-shirts, the well-know k. Somyos of the June 24 faction seems to have gone off in a different direction. From a newsflash today:

""Apichart's negligence has derailed the judicial review, hence causing the Democrats to elude punishment," he said.

After meeting with police, he said his faction would launch a signature campaign to initiate the impeachment proceedings for the five-member Election Commission, including Apichart.

Next week his faction plans to petition for the EC to rectify its flawed proceedings in order to seek a new round of judicial review against the Democrats, he said."

Nothing wrong with that, but only slightly misleading and suggestive. For one as the cases were dropped, the Dem's are still to be considered innocent and therefore saying 'eluded punishment' is incorrect. A new round of judicial reviews sounds nice, but the 'double jeopardy' clause would make that illegal (assuming we have such a clause in Thai law).

Just to seek a renewed EC seems proper though, too many accusations from many sides leave them without much standing. Who next to appoint for the EC will be an interesting exercise in 'democracy'

You've got it all wrong. As far as the red shirts are concerned, the Democrats must be guilty, otherwise it's double standards. It's got nothing to do with them doing anything illegal.

How in Pete's name could I have missed that ? If it hadn't rained tonight I would go on my knees to prostate myself, oh wise one

[hanuman1]

The photo I've posted of the toddler earlier is certainly not unique. The use of human shields, be they children or old women, by the Reds has been repeatedly reported on in local and international media. Was the usage of such underhanded tactics ever condemned by the Red Leaders? Were there any repercussion from the Reds for those that were responsible? Never heard a peep out of them over the issue.

You accuse me and others of 'ad hominem' attacks but the way you characterize thousands of people is beneath contempt. And you know exactly what you are doing. Shameful and calculatedly devisive.

Thank you for proving my accusations of repeated personal attacks, the majority of which are decidedly by posters of the Red persuasion, are accurate.

Don't mention it. My pleasure.

You attack thousands of people who you don't personally know whereas those who attack you on this forum have taken the time to find out exactly what you're about.

You keep bringing up newspaper articles and photos to lend a veneer of respectability to your bigotted views but I have proof to back up my views about you too. It's plastered all over this forum.

At least you admit to your flamings now, rather trying to downplay them as you did earlier.

As far as you taking the time to find out exactly what I'm about, what on Earth are you talking about? What exactly do you know about me? Pretty much diddly squat.

Additionally, let's see your "proof" where I attacked thousands of people.

Do I attack individual Red Leaders and their financier Thaksin? Do I attack other Reds who are involved with violence? You bet I do.

When I post newspapers that support my views or opinions, it's reflective of my views being shared by many. It also shows my opinions tend to be based on factual reporting of real events written by media from around the world.

Could you explain how my views are "bigotted", preferably in a less inflammatory manner than calling them bigoted?

.

I've got absolutely no problem with you criticizing people who commit or incite violence. Why would I have a problem with that? The problem is that you go way beyond that and apparently you don't even realize you're doing it.

There's no need to go back over your previous posts. Your modus operandi is clear just from the last few.

I gave a hypothetical example of what I considered to be a typical red shirt attending a rally that turned violent. It was an attempt to portray what I believe to be a significant section of the red shirts in attendance who weren't violent.

Then you decided to insinuate that the person in my example would be capable of bringing a child to use as a human shield. Thus you debase people who are not necessarily as you suggest. I find this highly offensive. Don't you get it?

As far as what I know about you goes, I know enough through reading your posts to make a personal judgment on you as an individual. You judge thousands of people and condemn them out of hand as people willing to use their children as human shields knowing less about them than I know about you.

[Buchholz]

So, you say you have "proof", but don't show it.

You say I'm "bigotted", but don't explain why.

You say you know me, but you don't.

I think we're done.

[hanuman1]

So, you say you have "proof", but don't show it.

You say I'm "bigotted", but don't explain why.

You say you know me, but you don't.

I think we're done.

I certainly hope so.

[Siam Simon]

So, you say you have "proof", but don't show it.

You say I'm "bigotted", but don't explain why.

You say you know me, but you don't.

I think we're done.

I certainly hope so.

Feel like you need a shower?

[Emptyset]

Of course, UDD/DAAD are red shirts, and so are June 24 Democracy Group (which was actually founded before DAAD IIRC), but Thida is only president of the DAAD part of the red shirts, June 24 is a splinter group, much like Sombat's group and Thida has no say over what they do, obviously they coordinate though. Basically they're all red shirts, but not all DAAD. DAAD is the main organization which Thida is president of. Daeng Siam are also red shirts, but not part of DAAD/UDD. Obviously the media might simplify things and say Thida is president of all red shirts etc, but that's not her fault.

Let's say Thaksin returned tomorrow through whatever mechanism and was placed in power for the foreseeable future, no ifs or buts. What would happen to all these "democratic" splinter groups?

Call me a cynic...

And I'd still appreciate an answer to this from EmptySet...

Well, given both Sombat & Somyos (& also Weng/Thida) were part of the anti-Thaksin protests (before PAD got all royalist) I find it unlikely that they'd find this acceptable. I'm not sure many ordinary red shirts would want this either, but impossible to tell, of course. Certainly when you speak to the urban more educated red shirts there's little focus on Thaksin, but I suppose upcountry he's probably still the main draw. Still that's completely hypothetical and how do you see that happening? I believe if Thaksin were to get into power again, which he won't, but if he were, there'd be a realignment. I suppose people like Sombat & Somyos see the military & the elements of the amaat who use it & are used by it, as a greater evil than Thaksin, which seems reasonable to me given Thailand's history & the fact that Thaksin is just one person. Plus you've got support in the military for Thaksin, which was the cause of much of the violence in April/May. So, yes, I'd say the military & its politicization is the main problem. They see Thaksin as an elite, who they happen to be allied with right now, but that could change pretty quickly.