Creatively Stupid About Visas To Uk

[crazydrummerpauly]

I have read thousands of words of advice about putting together a powerful application to get the Visitor ( or any other ) Visa for a Thai to visit the UK.

Being 'creatively stupid' for a moment - why is there such a huge mismatch between the volume and specificity of advice here on TV and that on the

official websites of the Border Agency and its commercial wing, VFS ? If I'm looking in the wrong (official) place, please let me know, but as far as I

can see, there is virtually nothing on the official sites referring to all the proofs of income, property owned or rented, outgoings and savings, duration

of relationship, frequency of contacts with the Thai friend, etc. But, I've only been looking at the VAF1 form and Guidance Notes for the Applicant - where

should I look to find the official ( as opposed to the many helpful posts here ) advice for Sponsors ?

On a specific point - is it really essential for a Brit sponsor to fly back to the UK just to collect an Original mortgage document or house Deed to prove

that accommodation for a visiting Thai partner would be available ? Isn't that seriously OTT ? Has anyone been successful by just providing bank-statements

showing monthly mortgage-payments, and/or by getting an email from the mortgage-lender ?

Thanks in advance.

Edited December 20, 2010 by crazydrummerpauly

[kunash]

this is what I will be including for tourist visa app for my TGF. You might think t is over the top, but I believe the application to be very strong, plus a lot of the papers I have gathered would be relevant for a future settlement visa

Index for the application of a 'UK Visitor Visa', for *******

Section 1 Sponsor letter: explaining our relationship, intentions, and finance for trip.

Section 2 Completed VAF1A Application Form, 2 passport photos, and visitor visa check list

Section 3 Sponsor's passport - including Thai visa stamps ( copy only )

Sponsor's Council tax bill, Self Assessment tax bill, house utility bill,

Land Registry Title for sponsor's home

Council papers relating to the building of the sponsor's home

Section 4 Sponsor's emails to girlfriend, and my girlfriend's emails to me

(Please note: MSN Chat Logs in separate folder)

Sponsor's Finance and Income

Section 5 Letter detailing property sponsor owns, and rental income received - from ** agency

Land Registry Title for rental property

Section 6 Sponsor's Bank Statements - 6 months - current and savings account (*)

Letter from solicitor detailing ****** into my account

Section 7 Sponsor's money transfer forms to girlfriend's bank

Section 8 Sponsor's copies of credit card statements - *

Section 9 Sponsor's copies of credit card statements - *

Section 10 Sponsor's copies of credit card statements - *

Holiday Details

Section 11 Copies of hotel / flight details for April 2010 holiday

Section 12 Copies of hotel / flight details for June / July 2010 holiday

Section 13 Copies of hotel / flight details for October / November 2010 holiday

Section 14 Copies of hotel / flight details for January 2011 holiday

Section 15 Photos of us together in Thailand - date stamped

Postcards sent to each other since April 2010

Photos of my house in the UK, **

Our rented house in Thailand, and my Girlfriend's details

Section 16 Copy of House rent agreement in *, showing both our names

Copy of electricity, and TOT bill for our house in *, in girlfriend's name

Police Clearance Certificate

Section 17 My Girlfriend's passport (original) and ID card (copy)

Section 18 My Girlfriend's Letter from her employer supporting her visitor visa application

Section 19 My Girlfriend's Bank Book for last 6 months

Section 20 My Girlfriend's details about the land she owns, divorce papers, and change of surname papers

[crazydrummerpauly]

this is what I will be including for tourist visa app for my TGF. You might think t is over the top, but I believe the application to be very strong, plus a lot of the papers I have gathered would be relevant for a future settlement visa

Index for the application of a 'UK Visitor Visa', for *******

Section 1 Sponsor letter: explaining our relationship, intentions, and finance for trip.

Section 2 Completed VAF1A Application Form, 2 passport photos, and visitor visa check list

Section 3 Sponsor's passport - including Thai visa stamps ( copy only )

Sponsor's Council tax bill, Self Assessment tax bill, house utility bill,

Land Registry Title for sponsor's home

Council papers relating to the building of the sponsor's home

Section 4 Sponsor's emails to girlfriend, and my girlfriend's emails to me

(Please note: MSN Chat Logs in separate folder)

Sponsor's Finance and Income

Section 5 Letter detailing property sponsor owns, and rental income received - from ** agency

Land Registry Title for rental property

Section 6 Sponsor's Bank Statements - 6 months - current and savings account (*)

Letter from solicitor detailing ****** into my account

Section 7 Sponsor's money transfer forms to girlfriend's bank

Section 8 Sponsor's copies of credit card statements - *

Section 9 Sponsor's copies of credit card statements - *

Section 10 Sponsor's copies of credit card statements - *

Holiday Details

Section 11 Copies of hotel / flight details for April 2010 holiday

Section 12 Copies of hotel / flight details for June / July 2010 holiday

Section 13 Copies of hotel / flight details for October / November 2010 holiday

Section 14 Copies of hotel / flight details for January 2011 holiday

Section 15 Photos of us together in Thailand - date stamped

Postcards sent to each other since April 2010

Photos of my house in the UK, **

Our rented house in Thailand, and my Girlfriend's details

Section 16 Copy of House rent agreement in *, showing both our names

Copy of electricity, and TOT bill for our house in *, in girlfriend's name

Police Clearance Certificate

Section 17 My Girlfriend's passport (original) and ID card (copy)

Section 18 My Girlfriend's Letter from her employer supporting her visitor visa application

Section 19 My Girlfriend's Bank Book for last 6 months

Section 20 My Girlfriend's details about the land she owns, divorce papers, and change of surname papers

Many, many thanks Kunash for the time taken to reply so fully - and I agree with you: 'Over-the-Top' is probably the best way to go

in visa applications.

I have remaining specific questions about being a Sponsor to which I have not received any usable clarification -

1. Somewhere on the Border Agency or VFS websites, it says that all supporting documents must be "ORIGINALS plus Photocopies" -

Will somebody please tell me if they have actually flown back to their home country to, for example, pick up and bring back to Thailand

the original Mortgage Papers / House Deeds / Rental Agreements etc etc ? Or, have electronic/email versions sent from the UK been

accepted by the British Embassy ? Kunash - have you got the ORIGINALS for all your supporting docs ?

2. This questions connects directly to another post I put up a while back - "Negative Career Consequences for Thai Partner As A Result

of Time Spent Visiting Another Country" - - to which the replies were inconclusive in my opinion. Please search that Topic for the debate.

Ok, the major problem which I'm confronting comes under the general requirement to 'prove' to the Embassy that the Thai tourist to the

UK will have very good reasons to return to Thailand at the end of the trip - amongst the usual items in this category, are a Letter from an

Employer both supporting the trip and affirming that the/or a, job will be waiting when the Thai traveller returns to Thailand. Now, as far

as I can find out, a Thai employed as a GOVERNMENT-school teacher ( i.e. a Civil Servant ), will never be given permission to be away

from employment in the Thai Civil Service for longer than the total of TWO MONTHS which is their normal Annual allowance ( taken usually

in 2 x 1-month breaks. This seems to be a complete brick-wall, and the irony is heavy - a Thai fights up the greasy pole to get a secure job,

and it turns out to be the source of huge conflict - go travelling abroad for a while and lose tenure in the Thai Civil Service altogether ( NOT

just the particular job at the time ), or NEVER leave Thailand for longer than 2 months until after retirement from employment as such.

PLEASE< PLEASE<PLEASE - can anyone shine some relieving light on this depressing puzzle ???

Can it really be the case that Farangs with Government-employed g/friends are in a worse position than guys with privately or casually-

employed partners ?

[crazydrummerpauly]

Hypothetical : A UK chap wishes to be a Sponsor for his long-term Thai girlfriend for her first Visitor Visa, and they are both in Thailand. Referring to the section which is about proving that he has sufficient accommodation back in the UK - is it really the case that the Brit.Embassy will only accept ORIGINAL bits of paper showing Mortgage details, Deeds, etc...or will they/do they accept electronically-generated versions of these documents - e.g., could the chap ask his mortgage-broker to dig out the loan-papers and scan/email them to him here in LOS. ?

Of course, this worry about ORIGINAL vs COPY runs through all the supporting docs required.

All replies gratefully received.

[crazydrummerpauly]

A small but important question : When submitting photos to prove a long-term relationship with a Thai who is applying for a Visitor Visa to the UK ( or elsewhere ), is is necessary to submit a pile of actual paper-based photos ( at considerable cost ) or are memory-stick or CD-rom collections of photos acceptable to the Embassy ? I'd be very grateful to hear from members with actual experience of using either method and how things turned out. Thanks in advance.

[7by7]

is it really the case that the Brit.Embassy will only accept ORIGINAL bits of paper

From Supporting documents

Originals or photocopies?

You must include the original documents and a photocopy of each document you choose to submit. Please ensure that the photocopies are good quality and can be easily read. You will also need to provide a translation of any supporting documents which are not in English, or your application may be refused. Each translated document must:

• be dated;
• include the translator's name and signature; and
• include confirmation that it is an accurate translation of the original document

.

Although certified copies without the original may be acceptable. Anecdotal evidence suggests that printouts of internet bank statements may also be acceptable.

The problem being that photocopies and computer printouts can be easily altered.

I didn't fly back to the UK just to collect my documents. We planned ahead and I took them with me.

[7by7]

is is necessary to submit a pile of actual paper-based photos ( at considerable cost ) or are memory-stick or CD-rom collections of photos acceptable to the Embassy

Paper copies only.

The embassy wont accept electronic evidence due to the risk of it containing a virus which could infest their systems.

[7by7]

It is confusing when you ask the same question in different topics!, So I have combined them to make it easier for both you and those who may wish to advise you.

[7by7]

2. This questions connects directly to another post I put up a while back - "Negative Career Consequences for Thai Partner As A Result

of Time Spent Visiting Another Country".........

......... PLEASE< PLEASE<PLEASE - can anyone shine some relieving light on this depressing puzzle ???

Can it really be the case that Farangs with Government-employed g/friends are in a worse position than guys with privately or casually-

employed partners ?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. If someone's employer will only allow them a maximum of 2 months holiday, then this is all they can take. How is this the fault of the UKBA?

My wife wanted to return to Thailand for 6 weeks (family reasons). Her UK employer would only allow her a maximum of 2 weeks holiday at any one time, and told her that if she wanted to be away longer she would have to leave their employ and re-apply for her job when she returned.

This is the norm, not just in the UK and Thailand but, I suspect, everywhere.

[crazydrummerpauly]

2. This questions connects directly to another post I put up a while back - "Negative Career Consequences for Thai Partner As A Result

of Time Spent Visiting Another Country".........

......... PLEASE< PLEASE<PLEASE - can anyone shine some relieving light on this depressing puzzle ???

Can it really be the case that Farangs with Government-employed g/friends are in a worse position than guys with privately or casually-

employed partners ?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. If someone's employer will only allow them a maximum of 2 months holiday, then this is all they can take. How is this the fault of the UKBA?

My wife wanted to return to Thailand for 6 weeks (family reasons). Her UK employer would only allow her a maximum of 2 weeks holiday at any one time, and told her that if she wanted to be away longer she would have to leave their employ and re-apply for her job when she returned.

This is the norm, not just in the UK and Thailand but, I suspect, everywhere.

Many thanks '7 by 7' for your answers and usual wisdom. I must be losing my literary touch big-time here in LOS though, because no-one has ever 'understood my point' about the predicament facing Thai Civil-Servant teachers - i.e., full-time teachers in Government schools; my related post just produced a mish-mash of unhelpful reactions. So I'll repeat it here - yes '7', you are quite right, any employee leaving a job for a length of time that breaks their signed contract with the employer ( without prior permission or health-problems ) would reasonably expect to lose that job. But that's the point - THAT job, and that job only. When a Thai civil-servant gets a chance to go abroad for more than 2 months, he or she - as far as I can discover - is OUT of the Thai civil-service for good, i.e., cannot even return to Thailand and apply for a new/different government teaching job. Am I the only one who cannot see the point, the logic, the fairness, or the value to Thailand of this rule ? However, if anyone has concrete evdidence that I am simply wrong about this - please knock me back immediately - I'd welcome it.

[Eff1n2ret]

Am I the only one who cannot see the point, the logic, the fairness, or the value to Thailand of this rule ?

So, a Thai Civil Servant loses their job if they absent themselves for more than 2 months, if I understand you correctly. But what has that to do with the immigration requirements of another country, UK or otherwise, and the person deciding on the visa application who has to assess the intentions of an applicant who apparently has no job to go back to? Just because up to the time at which they apply they worked for the civil service, why does such an applicant, who, in your terms, will never get a similar job, deserve more consideration than a girl who worked in a bar and could probably get another similar job pretty quickly?

If someone feels disadvantaged by a "2-month" limitation on the leave from their current job, they should include with their visa application a job offer for when they go back. If they are disbarred from another teaching job, they should at least be able to show what their plans are for doing something else.

For most people in genuine regular employment 2 months is an extremely long holiday.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Eff1n2ret

[RAZZELL]

Surely the person concerned could apply for a different job with a start date two months or longer in advance?

RAZZ

[7by7]

For most people in genuine regular employment 2 months is an extremely long holiday.

Indeed, most Thais in employment only get two weeks.

In the UK, although the majority of people I know get 4 to 5 weeks holiday each year, the maximum most can take at any one go is 3 weeks. I don't know anyone who would be allowed to have two months in one go, even unpaid, except in exceptional, compassionate circumstances.

British teachers do get their nice 6 week summer holiday, of course; but every teacher I have spoken to about this assures me that it is not holiday as they spend the time preparing and training. (What do they need inset days for, then?)

My point being that one either accepts the conditions and terms of one's employement or one leaves.

None of which, as Eff1n2ret says, is the concern of an entry clearance officer who has to assess whether or not an applicant meets the requirements for the visa applied for, and nothing else.

So, again, CDP, I don't see your point. If her job only allows her 2 months, then 2 months is all she can take.

Maybe you should consider the following prayer:

O Lord, grant me;

The strength to change that which can be changed,

The patience to endure that which can't be changed,

And the wisdom to tell the difference!