Aussie Man Held In Thailand On Child Sex Rap

[chuchok]

Whether hilltribe or not, they're living in the Kingdom, same as the German guy, legal or not.  Ignorance and white skin wouldn't be an excuse in the case of the German; why should ignorance and brown skin be in the case of the girl's parents?  Either it's legal or not- and if it's illegal and they're persecuting the German for it then they should persecute the parents, too, for neglect.  Who knows?  If word got around, maybe parents would realize their kids are their responsibilities, not just cash machines (as I'm not fooled into thinking the parents let this go on for so long with no expectations from the German).

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As Oz said, I think you have got thing around the wrong way mate.

illegal hilltribes have no legal rights here.Many are uneducated, incredibly poor,persecuted and have no idea what they are doing is wrong.Going by your reasoning, maybe the Thai Government should fine them for stealing the Thai air that breathe.

I think that the reason you are so pissed off is because the orig article mentioned peds in CM that were gay, yet the perp was not?? Get over it...it's no big deal.

[Lifelover]

One of the advantages of being an old hand in Chiang Mai is that you get to build up a network of contacts that can get the skinny on anyone living here, especially blokes like Chris who had a prominent role in the shady areas of life. So this morning I sent my scouts out to find out more. I discovered all kinds of stuff about him that might make interesting reading, but I'm not one to add to gossip.

From the mouths of girls who knew him well, including those who had slept over at his house and former employees, the fact that he was sleeping with the young girl in question was well known. So was the fact that the girl didn't only earn an income from selling flowers before Chris took her off the street. She sold her body for money to others too and in the full knowledge of her Mother, who demanded money from her daily.

Other girls who knew him (of legal age) that I spoke to today were on the whole indignant that he had been arrested and thought he had done nothing too much out of the ordinary. Illegal yes, but hardly uncommon in Thailand! Apparently the girl wanted to be with him from the start (at the age of 12) and was well looked after.

Up to that point I believe what I was told. The rest was mostly conjecture; ffor example most of my informants guessed that Chris must have upset the Mother by not paying his dues. For those reading this who don't get it, that's a Thai thing.

And I have no idea about the videos or what his relationship with the girl became after he took her to Bangkok. I'd guess it is not as black and white as some have made out.

I'm just relaying the facts as presented to me by people who know. Hope that helps the debate.

[sriracha john]

An excellent, factual, intelligent, and accurate assessment...  Thank you for taking the time to compose it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i find it very difficult to understand a mature man taking pleasure with minors, and furthermore we should not try to understand them, when the so called proffesionals try to understand why a mature adult commits these offences to me it looks like they are in some way justifying his actions.

I would only add that by trying to understand them, to understand why they do the things they do, to study them... that what the psychologists, criminologists, social scientists... are all trying to do is find a solution to controlling it. Much in the same Dr. Jonas Salk studied and researched and then finally understood how the polio virus operated in order to create the vaccine that ultimately destroyed it.

We DO need try to understand them.... understanding is not to be construed as agreeing with them or condoning their actions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agre to some extent on what you are saying, but this is not a virus or disease, we are talking illegal urges and actions that are generated from the brain.

at first i used the term un natural in stead of illegal i changed un natural to illegal, because when at the age of 13 and 14 i had the urge to have sex with the girls at school, however we have to control ourselves as we progress and get older, obviously for the protection of the younger generation because they will learn at thier own pace. what you say about finding a cure there isn't one.

Example:-

you can walk down the road in england and some of the girls ar dressed and made up like adults and they look up to 4-5 years older, it is only your control and common sense along with the law of the land that will stop you doing what you should not.

thier is nothing to stop you looking and admiring the beuatiful specimen and wishing you were of the same age but it is maturity and control and that my friend is an individual trait.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you look at it from a biological point of view, what causes these urges? Is it biochemistry in the brain malfunctioning? Is it psychological scarring from some point in time in their life?

You say that there is no cure? The same was said before just about every vaccine in history was developed. I don't sell the researchers off so easily.

The human organism is extremely complex, and in particular, the brain. If you consider that less a 100 years ago, the same comments that often turn up here on this topic ("boil their balls in oil"... "feed their genitals to sharks"... etc. etc.) are quite similar to the prevailing attitude at the time regarding people that suffered from schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or any other psychosis. Mental illness at that time wasn't understood... and worse most people didn't seem to want to understand it. Consequently thousands of people, who had a disease that is treatable today, suffered countless horrors... all originating from a lack of understanding. Many state hospitals had 20,000 people locked up and abused unmercifully. It took decades to discover effective treatments... research doesn't develop cures overnight. Unfortunately even today, 40 years after medications that effectively controlled most mental illnesses were introduced, many people still ridicule and malign the mentally ill through their own ignorances.

Something more than the "law" is necessary to control impulses in some people. Something in their thinking is clearly aschew... and fear of the "law" obviously does not stop them... why?

As for me, I believe the "why" is found somewhere in the combination of their biology, environment, and upbringing. Unraveling the parts of what comes from where and what can be done about it is the answer to finding a cure and/or effectively controlling this very troubling problem.

The healthy, intelligent diaglogue we have here is a good example of how to begin the process. I appreciate your past and future comments.

[sriracha john]

I saw the German guy on Thai Tv yesterday, every time he tried to hide his face with a newspaper, the police ripped it away!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saw the same footage, but actually that was a different German. Mr. Schiffer is accused of fraud to the tune of 30 million baht and discussed here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...l=schiffer&st=0

He is not the same German being discussed here.

[sriracha john]

And what were the parents thinking by letting her go and stay with him at 12 years old? Had he already bought her?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would just say if they are typical hill people, their education didn't extend beyond the 3rd or 4th grade.

A benevolent foreigner comes along and offers to be essentially a foster parent for the child with a good life and good future in Bangkok.

Realize that legitimate NGO's work with the hill people all the time and so the whole concept of the above is and does happen to a degree.

Factor in that many pedophiles are often exceptionally gifted manipulators and liars and actors... and you end up with the situation as it occured.

I wouldn't be too quick to overly malign the parents. Uneducated, poor, perhaps not even Thai citizens...with no or little recourse... I can easily see how they would be conned and manipulated.

[sriracha john]

So this morning I sent my scouts out to find out more.

...for example most of my informants

[Ijustwannateach]

Ooops, you guys are right- got my stories crossed. :blush:

And you may be right about the hill tribe people "being tricked," but I don't think just because they're stateless that they're all that stupid (especially if people are regularly getting married at 13 among them). They shouldn't be presumed innocent any more than the German or Aussie guy or whoever it is this time should be presumed guilty. They should *all* get trials to determine their guilt or innocence- that's what the rule of law means, right?

[Nickerelastic]

One of the advantages of being an old hand in Chiang Mai is that you get to build up a network of contacts that can get the skinny on anyone living here, especially blokes like Chris who had a prominent role in the shady areas of life.  So this morning I sent my scouts out to find out more.  I discovered all kinds of stuff about him that might make interesting reading, but I'm not one to add to gossip.

From the mouths of girls who knew him well, including those who had slept over at his house and former employees, the fact that he was sleeping with the young girl in question was well known.  So was the fact that the girl didn't only earn an income from selling flowers before Chris took her off the street.  She sold her body for money to others too and in the full knowledge of her Mother, who demanded money from her daily.

Other girls who knew him (of legal age) that I spoke to today were on the whole indignant that he had been arrested and thought he had done nothing too much out of the ordinary.  Illegal yes, but hardly uncommon in Thailand!  Apparently the girl wanted to be with him from the start (at the age of 12) and was well looked after. 

Up to that point I believe what I was told.  The rest was mostly conjecture; ffor example most of my informants guessed that Chris must have upset the Mother by not paying his dues.  For those reading this who don't get it, that's a Thai thing.

And I have no idea about the videos or what his relationship with the girl became after he took her to Bangkok.  I'd guess it is not as black and white as some have made out.

I'm just relaying the facts as presented to me by people who know.  Hope that helps the debate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No

Not at all.

Children were abused.

[colinj]

DaveYo Yesterday, 2005-08-25 02:12:20 Post #30

Senior Member

Group: Advanced Members

Posts: 1,009

Joined: 2003-04-30

From: Waukegan, Illinois

Member No.: 1,450

I am still trying to figure out how humans can have huh sex with a duh bunny!!!!!!!!!!!

This is weird, and gosh have some people really gone insane and not know where their porker is poking at???????????

Hey DaveYo

Your puppy is starting to look real cute

[WhiteShiva]

An excellent, factual, intelligent, and accurate assessment...  Thank you for taking the time to compose it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i find it very difficult to understand a mature man taking pleasure with minors, and furthermore we should not try to understand them, when the so called proffesionals try to understand why a mature adult commits these offences to me it looks like they are in some way justifying his actions.

I would only add that by trying to understand them, to understand why they do the things they do, to study them... that what the psychologists, criminologists, social scientists... are all trying to do is find a solution to controlling it. Much in the same Dr. Jonas Salk studied and researched and then finally understood how the polio virus operated in order to create the vaccine that ultimately destroyed it.

We DO need try to understand them.... understanding is not to be construed as agreeing with them or condoning their actions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agre to some extent on what you are saying, but this is not a virus or disease, we are talking illegal urges and actions that are generated from the brain.

at first i used the term un natural in stead of illegal i changed un natural to illegal, because when at the age of 13 and 14 i had the urge to have sex with the girls at school, however we have to control ourselves as we progress and get older, obviously for the protection of the younger generation because they will learn at thier own pace. what you say about finding a cure there isn't one.

Example:-

you can walk down the road in england and some of the girls ar dressed and made up like adults and they look up to 4-5 years older, it is only your control and common sense along with the law of the land that will stop you doing what you should not.

thier is nothing to stop you looking and admiring the beuatiful specimen and wishing you were of the same age but it is maturity and control and that my friend is an individual trait.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you look at it from a biological point of view, what causes these urges? Is it biochemistry in the brain malfunctioning? Is it psychological scarring from some point in time in their life?

You say that there is no cure? The same was said before just about every vaccine in history was developed. I don't sell the researchers off so easily.

The human organism is extremely complex, and in particular, the brain. If you consider that less a 100 years ago, the same comments that often turn up here on this topic ("boil their balls in oil"... "feed their genitals to sharks"... etc. etc.) are quite similar to the prevailing attitude at the time regarding people that suffered from schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or any other psychosis. Mental illness at that time wasn't understood... and worse most people didn't seem to want to understand it. Consequently thousands of people, who had a disease that is treatable today, suffered countless horrors... all originating from a lack of understanding. Many state hospitals had 20,000 people locked up and abused unmercifully. It took decades to discover effective treatments... research doesn't develop cures overnight. Unfortunately even today, 40 years after medications that effectively controlled most mental illnesses were introduced, many people still ridicule and malign the mentally ill through their own ignorances.

Something more than the "law" is necessary to control impulses in some people. Something in their thinking is clearly aschew... and fear of the "law" obviously does not stop them... why?

As for me, I believe the "why" is found somewhere in the combination of their biology, environment, and upbringing. Unraveling the parts of what comes from where and what can be done about it is the answer to finding a cure and/or effectively controlling this very troubling problem.

The healthy, intelligent diaglogue we have here is a good example of how to begin the process. I appreciate your past and future comments.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A little bit off topic perhaps, but i just read this morning about a prgramme back in my home country to "re-educate" violent individuals through talks with specialists, anger-management therapies, etc. A 70-90 % success rate, depending on the type of programme. Just imagine what it could do to the society to reduce violence with just 70%.

Hopefully we will one day manage to come up with a simialr programme for pedophiliacs.

Could it perhaps be that since there does not appear to be any help availble, there are so few, if any of these people stepping forward to ask for help with their problems?

[StateSix]

One of the advantages of being an old hand in Chiang Mai is that you get to build up a network of contacts that can get the skinny on anyone living here, especially blokes like Chris who had a prominent role in the shady areas of life.  So this morning I sent my scouts out to find out more.  I discovered all kinds of stuff about him that might make interesting reading, but I'm not one to add to gossip.

From the mouths of girls who knew him well, including those who had slept over at his house and former employees, the fact that he was sleeping with the young girl in question was well known.  So was the fact that the girl didn't only earn an income from selling flowers before Chris took her off the street.  She sold her body for money to others too and in the full knowledge of her Mother, who demanded money from her daily.

Other girls who knew him (of legal age) that I spoke to today were on the whole indignant that he had been arrested and thought he had done nothing too much out of the ordinary.  Illegal yes, but hardly uncommon in Thailand!  Apparently the girl wanted to be with him from the start (at the age of 12) and was well looked after. 

Up to that point I believe what I was told.  The rest was mostly conjecture; ffor example most of my informants guessed that Chris must have upset the Mother by not paying his dues.  For those reading this who don't get it, that's a Thai thing.

And I have no idea about the videos or what his relationship with the girl became after he took her to Bangkok.  I'd guess it is not as black and white as some have made out.

I'm just relaying the facts as presented to me by people who know.  Hope that helps the debate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"I'd guess it is not as black and white as some have made out". What?!?!? A 46 year old man having a sexual relationship with a girl from when she was 12 years old. You claim that your 'informants' stated that it was common knowledge that he was sleeping with the girl. You then state that you believe this part. If so then surely you must agree that he is guilty of having sexual relations with an unerage girl. What is more clear than that? Could you explain to me what you meant by the statement I quoted from you?

You state that the girl wanted to be with him from the beginning. That is how a lot of paedophiles work. It is called grooming. They use mind games and build up a trust with their victim. I would term it brainwashing. Just because she 'wanted' to be with him does not make his actions right, even if it is "hardly uncommon in Thailand". Like that is an excuse.

"I discovered all kinds of stuff about him that might make interesting reading, but I'm not one to add to gossip." You then write 3 paragraphs on gossip that you have heard.

[StateSix]

sriracha john (and others), thanks for your comments on my earlier post. My point was that paedophiles are not necessarily JUST evil sickos who should be killed or imprisoned forever. As sriracha john correctly said, there is a reason why they act like this, whether that be biochemical or as a product of their environment/the way they were raised. Some paedophiles just cannot see why what they are doing is wrong. People are sexually aroused by a number of things, men, women, children, power etc. Other people cannot see how that can be.

Ask the average guy in the pub whether he could have sex with another man and he will more than likely answer no chance. Yet if you are a gay man it is the most natural thing in the world, in the same way as a heterosexual believes that having sex with somone from the opposite sex is. A paedophile should not necessarily be condemned for having these urges, which may be perfectly natural to them, but should certainly be punished for acting on them. If paedophiles can be studied and understood, maybe treatments can be made available to help them and prevent future generations of children suffering.

Disclaimer: In no way am I comparing paedophilia acts with homosexual acts. Homosexuality is a legal and morally acceptable form of relationship (at least in most civilised, enlightened countires). Paedophilia is legally and morally wrong.

[Johpa]

Ooops, you guys are right- got my stories crossed.  :blush:

And you may be right about the hill tribe people "being tricked," but I don't think just because they're stateless that they're all that stupid (especially if people are regularly getting married at 13 among them).  They shouldn't be presumed innocent any more than the German or Aussie guy or whoever it is this time should be presumed guilty.  They should *all* get trials to determine their guilt or innocence- that's what the rule of law means, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The majority of the hill people are not stateless and the Thai government has made excellent progress in providing citizenship to the minority folks up north. The one hard luck exception is the Akha. And trust me as one who has lived amongst them longer than most, they may be poor and disadvantaged, but rarely stupid.

Although one occasionally sees younger ones getting married, they tend to be traditional marriages between people who are close in age and not 13 year olds marrying 48 year olds. I attended a Karen wedding where the bride was 14 and the groom was maybe all of 16 and they are a happy family 15 years later.

Once you get to around 18 years of age Thai culture does not look down upon a woman marrying a much older man for the economic security, but that is well beyond pedophilia. If you want to read stories about 12, 13 and 14 year old girls having sex with much older men then read any of the Thai "True Life" magazines and note the men are rarely Farangs.

[figaro]

What a sad photo.

The copper on the right looks like he's happy to get this &lt;deleted&gt; as far away from Thailand as possible, as quickly as possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After reading such news relevant to pedophiles, am struck by the statistics that every such person is a farang, that is, Australian, European, Canadian ,

American (maybe) .

Have never read of Korean, Japanese, Indian, Chinese, African, pedophiles.

Is pedophilia a farang disease ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it is not a farang desease - it is just that in many of the countries you mentioned above, pedophilia is either allowed, ignored, or so common it doesn't make the head lines.

Sad, but true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Disagree completely with what you say.

Pedophilia is abhorant to every modern society. No culture supports, encourages, or condones it, in today's world.

My personal belief is that pedophilia is a result of restrictive societies such as those found in the countries that I'd mentioned in my earlier post; Australia, Europe, Canada , North America.

Japanese society is restrictive , therefore the obsession of middle aged Japanese men with school girls, however, I remember reading somewhere that most of the school girl look alikes on Japanese porno sites happen to be aged thirty and above. Also, haven't ever heard of a Japanese visitor to any country, being accused of pedophilia.

Why the strong co-relation of pedophilia with farangs? Don't recall ever hearing of (say) a Chinese national, or an Indian, being deported from LOS because of pedophilia.

[Lifelover]

Hey guys, don't shoot the messenger!

I relayed what I'd learned from people who are probably closer than you are to the victim and perp. I knew neither. I didn't make any judgements except to intimate, as in all these reported cases, that there is probably more going on than meets the eye.

Do not assume that a 12 year old, still less a 16 year old is naieve, or incapable. Do not assume that a Mother is all-caring but unable to help. Consider all the circumstances of this case and do not exclude those that do not meet your preconceived ideas. That is all.

As I wrote in a previous post, the sad truth is that just as children suffering from vitamin D deficiency grow up with bowed and distorted limbs, so children deprived of a parent’s love (or who are abused) are prone to develop rickets of the soul. Early experiences are crucial for healthy development. This girl has got a raw deal in life and I am very sorry for her and the 1,000's of other Thai children like her.

[chuchok]

Ooops, you guys are right- got my stories crossed.   :blush:

And you may be right about the hill tribe people "being tricked," but I don't think just because they're stateless that they're all that stupid (especially if people are regularly getting married at 13 among them).  They shouldn't be presumed innocent any more than the German or Aussie guy or whoever it is this time should be presumed guilty.  They should *all* get trials to determine their guilt or innocence- that's what the rule of law means, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The majority of the hill people are not stateless and the Thai government has made excellent progress in providing citizenship to the minority folks up north. The one hard luck exception is the Akha. And trust me as one who has lived amongst them longer than most, they may be poor and disadvantaged, but rarely stupid.

Although one occasionally sees younger ones getting married, they tend to be traditional marriages between people who are close in age and not 13 year olds marrying 48 year olds. I attended a Karen wedding where the bride was 14 and the groom was maybe all of 16 and they are a happy family 15 years later.

Once you get to around 18 years of age Thai culture does not look down upon a woman marrying a much older man for the economic security, but that is well beyond pedophilia. If you want to read stories about 12, 13 and 14 year old girls having sex with much older men then read any of the Thai "True Life" magazines and note the men are rarely Farangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HUMAN RIGHTS / HILLTRIBES

Citizenship call for all born on Thai soil

ANUCHA CHAROENPO

Chiang Mai _ Human rights defenders and highland people's networks in the North have proposed amending the Citizenship Act to allow hilltribe children born on Thai soil to automatically receive Thai citizenship.

At present, the system classifies parents into two groups _ those who migrated to Thailand before Oct 3, 1985, and those who arrived after that date.

Hilltribe children born to the first group can seek Thai citizenship, but it must still be approved by the interior minister.

Children of those in the second group have no right to seek Thai citizenship since their parents have no legal status.

Suraphong Kongjanthuk, deputy chairman of a Law Society of Thailand sub-committee on the human rights of indigenous people, said Article 7(3) of the Citizenship Act created major problems since it treats children of hilltribe people as aliens because their parents are illegal immigrants under the Immigration Act.

''If arrested they must be deported despite the fact they have committed no crime. This practice is very unfair and ruins their futures,'' he said.

''Under the Act, about 900,000 tribes-people and their children are living as 'stateless people' in Thailand. Clearly they suffer greatly since they have no rights or access to social welfare,'' he said.

This meant stateless people and their children cannot access the health-care system or get an education. As a result, many were jobless and forced into informal employment, including prostitution and dealing drugs.

''In light of this, we demand the authorities amend Article 7[3] by granting citizenship to the children through their 'right of birth', even though their parents have yet to receive Thai nationality. We believe that if all the children were granted citizenship, the problems faced by stateless people would eventually be eliminated,'' Mr Suraphong said at a three-day public seminar on the rights and status of hilltribe and indigenous people in Thailand.

About 300 hilltribe people, NGO representatives, human rights' activists and state officials took part. The seminar, which will end today, is aimed at identifying solutions and developing plans to promote the rights of hilltribe and indigenous people.

Deputy Prime Minister Chaturon Chaisaeng was expected to attend today to listen to the demands of hilltribe people.

Wiwat Tamee, coordinator of the Ethnic Minority Groups in Thailand, did not understand why the government failed to comply with the UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (1966), given that the country ratified it on Jan 29, 1997. Signing up meant the country pledged to protect the rights of all children born in Thailand.

Prayong Doklamyai, adviser to the Federation of the Northern Farmers, suggested the cabinet issue a resolution empowering the interior minister to grant Thai citizenship to all Thai-born children of ethnic minority groups, not just hilltribe people.

  Bangkok Post 30 June 2005 

[figaro]

stupid.

If you want to read stories about 12, 13 and 14 year old girls having sex with much older men then read any of the Thai "True Life" magazines and note the men are rarely Farangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have NEVER come across any stories of Thai men having sex with 12, 13 and 14 year old girls . Am not denying that such things don't happen, but am sure that Thai society (which is about the most tolerant in the world) will abhor such behavior .

On many occasions Thai taxi drivers and the usual pimps, have approached me asking whether I'd like a small girl ( propositions which sicken me). Although I'm not farang, I sometimes get mistaken for one in LOS and I do believe that such propositions were made to me because the propositioner thought that I was

farang. This has also happened to me in the Philippines, which is another pedophile venue. Am sure that similar propositions have been made to many of the male farang members of this forum.

Thai (& Philippine) low life does appear to link farangs with child sex. Am told this is also the situation in Sri Lanka.

[chuchok]

stupid.

If you want to read stories about 12, 13 and 14 year old girls having sex with much older men then read any of the Thai "True Life" magazines and note the men are rarely Farangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have NEVER come across any stories of Thai men having sex with 12, 13 and 14 year old girls . Am not denying that such things don't happen, but am sure that Thai society (which is about the most tolerant in the world) will abhor such behavior .

On many occasions Thai taxi drivers and the usual pimps, have approached me asking whether I'd like a small girl ( propositions which sicken me). Although I'm not farang, I sometimes get mistaken for one in LOS and I do believe that such propositions were made to me because the propositioner thought that I was

farang. This has also happened to me in the Philippines, which is another pedophile venue. Am sure that similar propositions have been made to many of the male farang members of this forum.

Thai (& Philippine) low life does appear to link farangs with child sex. Am told this is also the situation in Sri Lanka.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've got to be joking mate.It's just like prostitution here where the farang side of things is just the tip of the iceburg.

[WhiteShiva]

What a sad photo.

The copper on the right looks like he's happy to get this &lt;deleted&gt; as far away from Thailand as possible, as quickly as possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After reading such news relevant to pedophiles, am struck by the statistics that every such person is a farang, that is, Australian, European, Canadian ,

American (maybe) .

Have never read of Korean, Japanese, Indian, Chinese, African, pedophiles.

Is pedophilia a farang disease ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it is not a farang desease - it is just that in many of the countries you mentioned above, pedophilia is either allowed, ignored, or so common it doesn't make the head lines.

Sad, but true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Disagree completely with what you say.

Pedophilia is abhorant to every modern society. No culture supports, encourages, or condones it, in today's world.

My personal belief is that pedophilia is a result of restrictive societies such as those found in the countries that I'd mentioned in my earlier post; Australia, Europe, Canada , North America.

Japanese society is restrictive , therefore the obsession of middle aged Japanese men with school girls, however, I remember reading somewhere that most of the school girl look alikes on Japanese porno sites happen to be aged thirty and above. Also, haven't ever heard of a Japanese visitor to any country, being accused of pedophilia.

Why the strong co-relation of pedophilia with farangs? Don't recall ever hearing of (say) a Chinese national, or an Indian, being deported from LOS because of pedophilia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably because they can act out their fantacies at home with impunity.

Or are you seriously implying that pedophilia does not occur in India or China?

Edited August 26, 2005 by WhiteShiva

[StateSix]

Hey guys, don't shoot the messenger!

I relayed what I'd learned from people who are probably closer than you are to the victim and perp.  I knew neither.  I didn't make any judgements except to intimate, as in all these reported cases, that there is probably more going on than meets the eye.

Do not assume that a 12 year old, still less a 16 year old is naieve, or incapable.  Do not assume that a Mother is all-caring but unable to help.  Consider all the circumstances of this case and do not exclude those that do not meet your preconceived ideas.  That is all.

As I wrote in a previous post, the sad truth is that just as children suffering from vitamin D deficiency grow up with bowed and distorted limbs, so children deprived of a parent’s love (or who are abused) are prone to develop rickets of the soul. Early experiences are crucial for healthy development.  This girl has got a raw deal in life and I am very sorry for her and the 1,000's of other Thai children like her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lifelover, since I am making judgments based on my "preconceived ideas" please educate me and advise me where I am going wrong. Your argument above is full of hearsay, conjecture and nothing of substance. It also seems dangerously close to implying that the girl wanted it and that the offender (not perp - that sounds like you have watched too many cheesy American cop shows) was an innocent pawn, seduced by a modern day Lolita. C**p.

I am well aware that 12 year old girls can be aware of their sexuality and can use it to their advantage. Even if she did come onto him, what sort of guy responds to it. He is 46 years old (around 42 when they first met) and so should have the intelligence to not allow himself to be manipulated, and the moral fibre to resist any advances, IF, they were made.

Instead of "intimating" vague ideas that there may be more going on, give me some evidence. Afterall you have a "network of contacts that can get the skinny on anyone living here, especially blokes like Chris who had a prominent role in the shady areas of life" and "discovered all kinds of stuff about him that might make interesting reading". In other words he was hardly some innocent, naive guy.

The facts of the case, which appear to be undisputed, even by you and your "contacts" are still that a middle aged man had a sexual relationship with a girl starting when she was around 12. I am unsure about Thai law, but under British law that is an absolute offence. A female of that age cannot legally consent to sex.

[sriracha john]

stupid.

If you want to read stories about 12, 13 and 14 year old girls having sex with much older men then read any of the Thai "True Life" magazines and note the men are rarely Farangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have NEVER come across any stories of Thai men having sex with 12, 13 and 14 year old girls . Am not denying that such things don't happen, but am sure that Thai society (which is about the most tolerant in the world) will abhor such behavior .

Obviously you don't know much about the news services available in Thailand, or I dare say Thailand, for that matter.

Even assuming you can't read Thai, here's just a few clips from articles from the English language paper The Nation:

Police yesterday said two additional students at a Bangkok Metropolitan Administration-run (BMA) school were implicated in the shocking attempted gang-rape of a 12-year-old girl in her classroom at lunchtime. This brings the number of suspects to seven.

A 16-year-old girl who tried to jump to her death at a BTS train station on Sunday said she would file a complaint with police accusing Phra Sukri, a senior monk at Wat That Thong, of sexual harassment, Senator Montri Sinthawichai said yesterday.

A child-welfare foundation filed a police complaint yesterday accusing a Bangkok teacher of molesting a 13-year-old student. The Children's Protection Foundation, founded by Senator Montree Sinthawichai, filed the complaint against 59-year-old Somsak Dam.

Chalermchai Poopart, the eldest brother of a family of actors, was yesterday sentenced to seven and a half years' imprisonment for molesting a young boy. The Central Criminal Court found him guilty of illegally detaining a then 14-year-old boy and molesting the boy.

Rumours that Dominique Poopart, a convicted child-molester and suspected thief, is a major figure at Centre Point and Royal City Avenue (RCA) have been denied.

A woman who lured a 12-year-old girl into prostitution was sentenced to 240 years jail while two police officers received sentences of 16 and eight years for statutory rape yesterday.

Child Welfare Police on Monday arrested a woman who allegedly prostituted her 13-year-old adopted daughter, as well as her husband, who had allegedly raped the girl, officials revealed yesterday.

The female teacher at the centre of child molestation allegations yesterday told police that she did nothing wrong. The teacher reported to Pol Lt Col Prawet Tonsomboon, deputy superintendent of Samut Prakan station, to submit a formal statement.

A senior educational official yesterday ordered an investigation into charges that six boys had sexually molested a nine-year-old girl student in their class for five consecutive days earlier this month in Ubon Ratchathani’s Na Yia sub-district.

A 15-year-old alleged rape victim claims she was molested a second time by the investigator in charge of her sexual-assault case inside the Makkasan police station.

---------------------------------

These are all instances of Thai on Thai crime.

One can only imagine the number of reports in the Thai newspapers...likely to be in the thousands if I bothered to search.

But hey, it's ok, I don't mind educating someone... in your case, I'll even do it for free.

[WhiteShiva]

These are all instances of Thai on Thai crime.

One can only imagine the number of reports in the Thai newspapers...likely to be in the thousands if I bothered to search.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And, it is only the tip of the iceberg. To claim this is a purely "white man's" phenomena is utter rubbish!

[Lifelover]

StateSix you seem to have jumped onto a belligerent hobbyhorse and don’t want to get down. I agree with you that sex with a 12 year old is illegal in Thailand. We have no argument there OK? The thread could just be ended there and we can all go home.

However, I think that some people like me want to explore what lies behind this case. There are issues about Thai culture that are pertinent to this story and the most recent posts testify to that. Also of course exploring what makes someone want to commit a sex offense crime (both perp and victim, terms which I think everyone understands in this context) and how to control the recidivist.

Did you know that sex offence crimes are on the decline in the USA? The following article in yesterday’s USA Today has some interesting observations and facts about this subject.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20050825/...secrimesdecline

[StateSix]

Lifelover

I agree with you that offenders should undergo rehabilitation and therapy during imprisonment to try to understand them and why they commit such acts. This is quite clear from my posts in other threads.

I was commenting on the fact that you seemed to be excusing the guy, with comments like "Do not assume that a 12 year old, still less a 16 year old is naieve, or incapable", or that it is not black and white. It is black and white. He sexually abused her or he didnt.

[kat]

What a sad photo.

The copper on the right looks like he's happy to get this &lt;deleted&gt; as far away from Thailand as possible, as quickly as possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After reading such news relevant to pedophiles, am struck by the statistics that every such person is a farang, that is, Australian, European, Canadian ,

American (maybe) .

Have never read of Korean, Japanese, Indian, Chinese, African, pedophiles.

Is pedophilia a farang disease ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it is not a farang desease - it is just that in many of the countries you mentioned above, pedophilia is either allowed, ignored, or so common it doesn't make the head lines.

Sad, but true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Disagree completely with what you say.

Pedophilia is abhorant to every modern society. No culture supports, encourages, or condones it, in today's world.

My personal belief is that pedophilia is a result of restrictive societies such as those found in the countries that I'd mentioned in my earlier post; Australia, Europe, Canada , North America.

Japanese society is restrictive , therefore the obsession of middle aged Japanese men with school girls, however, I remember reading somewhere that most of the school girl look alikes on Japanese porno sites happen to be aged thirty and above. Also, haven't ever heard of a Japanese visitor to any country, being accused of pedophilia.

Why the strong co-relation of pedophilia with farangs? Don't recall ever hearing of (say) a Chinese national, or an Indian, being deported from LOS because of pedophilia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

stupid.

If you want to read stories about 12, 13 and 14 year old girls having sex with much older men then read any of the Thai "True Life" magazines and note the men are rarely Farangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have NEVER come across any stories of Thai men having sex with 12, 13 and 14 year old girls . Am not denying that such things don't happen, but am sure that Thai society (which is about the most tolerant in the world) will abhor such behavior .

On many occasions Thai taxi drivers and the usual pimps, have approached me asking whether I'd like a small girl ( propositions which sicken me). Although I'm not farang, I sometimes get mistaken for one in LOS and I do believe that such propositions were made to me because the propositioner thought that I was

farang. This has also happened to me in the Philippines, which is another pedophile venue. Am sure that similar propositions have been made to many of the male farang members of this forum.

Thai (& Philippine) low life does appear to link farangs with child sex. Am told this is also the situation in Sri Lanka.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must be either: joking, a troll, in denial, or completely clueless. The reason why there are so many foreign pedophiles here is because there is a market and ready supply here. Who are the suppliers - farang? How did this ready market and endless source of supply become so pervasive and limitless in an adverse environment? I tell you, sometimes comments like yours boggle the mind.

For your information, Japan was one of the first major suppliers of sex tourists in S.E. Asia until they figured out how to get their young sex slaves shipped in. Have you never heard of the Yakuza? Have you never learned of Chinese men who regulary seek young virgins to invigorate their health? Surely, you must of heard of female infanticide and the present desperation to smuggle young, impoverished migrant women into China for single men? Do you know that gang rape is dangerously close to becoming a national sport among young Cambodian men? Do you realize that in most if not all Asian cultures, the glorification of female-child sex has always been present in some shape or form? I doubt you know anything, based on your comments.

[figaro]

Probably because they can act out their fantacies at home with impunity.

Or are you seriously implying that pedophilia does not occur in India or China?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whiteshiva:

Nowhere have I said that pedophila doesn't happen in India and China.

Pedophilia, like all other crimes, occurs in every country in the world.

What I'm trying to get across (apparently without much success) is the fact that all cases of pedophilia reported in Thailand, in recent times, involved farangs.

I'm also trying to understand the reasons why certain farangs indulge in such activities in LOS, the Philippines, and in Sri Lanka and why other (sex) tourists

from India, or China, don't get caught in such activities in these countries. Am assuming that sex fantasies are similar in all countries.

Is there something unique with farangs that makes them get caught while indulging in pedophilia?

[kat]

Figaro:

I'm sorry about the my last comment in my above posts and I've asked the mods to remove it.

Concerning your question, I believe so many farang pedophiles are reported in Asia because they are the foreigners and it is the Asian press reporting it.

[chuchok]

What I'm trying to get across (apparently without much success) is the fact that all cases of pedophilia reported in Thailand, in recent times, involved farangs.

Figaro....try some of the Thai publications. adults having sex with minors is RAMPANT among thais.

[figaro]

stupid.

If you want to read stories about 12, 13 and 14 year old girls having sex with much older men then read any of the Thai "True Life" magazines and note the men are rarely Farangs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have NEVER come across any stories of Thai men having sex with 12, 13 and 14 year old girls . Am not denying that such things don't happen, but am sure that Thai society (which is about the most tolerant in the world) will abhor such behavior .

On many occasions Thai taxi drivers and the usual pimps, have approached me asking whether I'd like a small girl ( propositions which sicken me). Although I'm not farang, I sometimes get mistaken for one in LOS and I do believe that such propositions were made to me because the propositioner thought that I was

farang. This has also happened to me in the Philippines, which is another pedophile venue. Am sure that similar propositions have been made to many of the male farang members of this forum.

Thai (& Philippine) low life does appear to link farangs with child sex. Am told this is also the situation in Sri Lanka.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must be either: joking, a troll, in denial, or completely clueless. The reason why there are so many foreign pedophiles here is because there is a market and ready supply here. Who are the suppliers - farang? How did this ready market and endless source of supply become so pervasive and limitless in an adverse environment? I tell you, sometimes comments like yours boggle the mind.

For your information, Japan was one of the first major suppliers of sex tourists in S.E. Asia until they figured out how to get their young sex slaves shipped in. Have you never heard of the Yakuza? Have you never learned of Chinese men who regulary seek young virgins to invigorate their health? Surely, you must of heard of female infanticide and the present desperation to smuggle young, impoverished migrant women into China for single men? Do you know that gang rape is dangerously close to becoming a national sport among young Cambodian men? Do you realize that in most if not all Asian cultures, the glorification of female-child sex has always been present in some shape or form? I doubt you know anything, based on your comments.

You should be banned just on the basis of stupidity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I'm not joking, neither am I a troll.

I am referiing to farang pedophiles getting caught for their activities in LOS and the publicity surrounding such farang related preferances in LOS.

I'm not refering to pedophile happenings in China, Japan, Cambodia, or elsewhere in the world. My query relates specifically to LOS.

Maybe you should get banned for your inability to read?

If, as you say, pedophilia occurs in Japan, China and Cambodia, AND LOS has a huge number of tourists from Japan and China AND there is a ready market of available children in LOS to cater for depraved tastes, then, why aren't Japanese and Chinese men accused of pedophilia in LOS? Why are only farangs accused?

It might be distasteful to you, but pedophilia in LOS looks more and more like a farang disease.

As for the contention that the Asian press is vindictive towards farangs, remember

that Indians are disliked in LOS and a huge number of Indian sex tourists visit LOS, but, I haven't come across an Indian being accused of pedophilia.

Edited August 26, 2005 by figaro

[kat]

Oh, I'm sorry Figaro, I recall reading the following quotes you posted earlier:

"Pedophilia is abhorant to every modern society. No culture supports, encourages, or condones it, in today's world.

My personal belief is that pedophilia is a result of restrictive societies such as those found in the countries that I'd mentioned in my earlier post; Australia, Europe, Canada , North America.

Japanese society is restrictive , therefore the obsession of middle aged Japanese men with school girls, however, I remember reading somewhere that most of the school girl look alikes on Japanese porno sites happen to be aged thirty and above. Also, haven't ever heard of a Japanese visitor to any country, being accused of pedophilia.

Why the strong co-relation of pedophilia with farangs? Don't recall ever hearing of (say) a Chinese national, or an Indian, being deported from LOS because of pedophilia."

The point is that you don't hear about it, except now and again. Lately, there have been more reports of sex smugglers from East Asian countries.

There are plenty of lower-paid brothels that harbour underage girls and coerced migrants that have been trafficked over borders. The point is that you don't hear about them much because locals and less "high profile" types use these brothels.

A white foreigner is a high profile ticket item in the political face-saving stakes, because of past events. There was an international boycott of Thailand and subsequent legal changes after the reporting of child sex and selling reached a fever pitch in the 1990s. A couple of NGOs were also established as well as a law institued by foreign countries to expedite foreign pedophiles. This was all done because of foreign pressure. Perhaps this aspect of the law which allows for foreign pedophiles to be captured, punished, and/or extradited is the most effective aspect of the law regarding this issue in Thailand. It is only now starting to show real teeth, since it took awhile to get Thai officials such as police, border patrol, immigration, and others to actually stop colluding with human traffickers - which is still an issue by the way.

So perhaps the high profile convinctions and photographs of farang is a face-saving exercise of some sort.

Edited August 26, 2005 by kat