Red Protest Absences Threaten Thida's Credibility

[Emptyset]

They were "peaceful protesters" so they couldn't (and didn't) really go around openly carrying guns, could they?

During the protests they were a united group. None of the "factions" denounced the violence during the protests.

Veera left before the final days, but not before the violence on April 10, or the red shirts attacking and provoking troops from behind their tyre barricades. (I hate it how the Nation doesn't date their articles.)

Their united goal was to bring down the government and to get Thaksin back. Their might be some red shirts that don't like Thaksin, but they supported the united group with the united goal.

My point was Daeng Siam weren't there except in the early days before any violence took place. They left when Veera asked them and Seh Daeng to leave. So you can't pin any of the violence on them, Surachai said the extended rally was a stupid idea and criticized the leaders from the start. Which is why they asked him to leave, of course. Sorry, didn't notice the link had no date, it was in mid-March: http://asiancorrespo...ed-shirt-split/ (I find Jatuporn's criticisms especially ironic, Surachai was prone to violent struggle... yes, in the late seventies. As were Weng, Thida, Jaran to name but three who were on the red stage).

Anyway, UDD themselves "denounced" violence: http://www.pattayada...inued-silence/. But that was either meaningless or duplicitous, depending on your perspective. Twitter doesn't archive as far back as May, but I've found a few tweets that are still available for some reason. Most of the speeches were translated live by this guy, Terryfrd, and there was a lot more stuff about staying peaceful etc than there was urging people to get violent: http://twitter.com/t...tus/14135971356 http://twitter.com/t...tus/14136251443 http://twitter.com/t...tus/14366674340 - obviously there's a lot more than that but as I say, not much of it is available now. It was invaluable for those who can't speak Thai that well (like me) and tend to miss a lot.

But it was all from the usual suspects, mainly Weng, Veera, Korkaew and a couple of others imploring people to stay peaceful & calm, then Jatuporn and Nattawud would come back and scream about fighting to the death etc (which people loved). That's why I still say that Weng etc might've been stupid and misguided at worst, but you can't lump them together in the same basket as those who clearly incited violence. Weng probably should've left the rally and almost did, but he was holding out for a peaceful solution despite everything. Not sure what I would've done in his situation. There was a lot of stuff tantamount to inciting terrorism from the hardliners and they should pay for it, but clearly there were people there who were trying to do the right thing and keep it peaceful and it's important to separate the two strands, in my opinion. Clearly the peaceful types were motivated mostly by ideology and the violent types motivated mostly by power. At least that's how it appears to me.

[Emptyset]

*Quick google - apparently he lead the stage at Din Daeng: http://www.nationmul...e-30129971.html

From that article, here is what Sombat thought of Abhisit and the government:

Sombat said that what took place during the crackdown on Wednesday, which led to 15 deaths on that day alone and combined to a total of more than 70 deaths over the past month or so, signalled a "political defeat" for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. "He has unveiled his real face behind that good-looking face of his. The continued killings showed us Abhisit's and the ammart's [aristocrats'] behaviour. Thai society is blind and we do not see the real truth. This government is an ammart government, which is brutal, a tyrannical regime that sucks people's blood."

I wonder if he still thinks the same way after the government's recent announcement of their policies. Would he support Pheu Thai instead?

I don't know but I doubt he's suddenly going to start supporting the government. After all he's said that would be quite unbelievable. I don't think he's really that interested in party politics as such, I get the feeling he still feels it's an elitist power game more than anything. There's an interview with him in Spanish where he discusses his views on this. It's quite readable translated for me by google toolbar.

"Thaksin Shinawatra committed serious human rights violations in the provinces of southern Thailand's Muslim majority and in 2003, with the war against drugs. What is the position of the red shirts with regard to these violations?

With respect to these issues, I think differently to most red shirts, because I have worked many years in NGOs. Most red shirts support Thaksin because he got forward to the Government to serve the people, so focus solely on what Thaksin did for them. It is necessary that the red shirts to develop their ideas about democracy, to extend them. It is true that the movement was born to defend Thaksin, but now many people are learning and what is democracy advocates. We are going through a learning process. It's like the runway of an airport, which is necessary to take off. Now we are building the track and therefore there is no hurry. Keep in mind one very important thing: if the red shirts expire too soon, all they will get is that Thaksin return, or politicians. And I'm not fighting for that, I am fighting for democracy.

So far, the movement of the red shirts were pyramidal. At the top were the leaders, but are now in jail. But there is one million active redshirts. What we need do now is create a structure for the red shirts could become stronger. We must build a solid structure and prepare for the day when we can change the country and achieve democracy. Until four years ago there were two opposing groups in Thailand: the elite and politicians. The elite was conservative and still retains power, but the politicians came to power because they won the election. However, it was not really a democracy. Not enough to vote for democracy. The elections are part of it, but not enough, people must get their hands on power, organized and able to move by itself when necessary. I think now is not a struggle between the elite and the politicians, but there is a third side, which is the people. That is the side that I support. I have hope that if he wins the people in the future we will have a true democracy, get over to politicians. Because in a true democracy, the people can control politicians."

http://elgranjuego.periodismohumano.com/2010/11/05/%E2%80%9Cno-estoy-luchando-por-thaksin-estoy-luchando-por-la-democracia%E2%80%9D/

[whybother]

<snip>

Anyway, UDD themselves "denounced" violence: http://www.pattayada...inued-silence/. But that was either meaningless or duplicitous, depending on your perspective.

<snip>

Didn't a red shirt (not sure who he was aligned with) get charged with those grenades a couple of weeks ago?

[Emptyset]

<snip>

Anyway, UDD themselves "denounced" violence: http://www.pattayada...inued-silence/. But that was either meaningless or duplicitous, depending on your perspective.

<snip>

Didn't a red shirt (not sure who he was aligned with) get charged with those grenades a couple of weeks ago?

I believe so.

[hyperdimension]

"Thaksin Shinawatra committed serious human rights violations in the provinces of southern Thailand's Muslim majority and in 2003, with the war against drugs. What is the position of the red shirts with regard to these violations?

Did you notice that he did not answer the question at all?

He says:

It is true that the movement was born to defend Thaksin

So he has basically hijacked the movement for his ideological goals, which are in conflict with Thaksin's goals.

In the December 17, 2010 issue of BK Magazine there is an interview with Sombat on the inner cover page. He has no education (was expelled from school for protesting). His uncle (Thammasat University graduate) taught him about the 1976 crackdown on students. The 1991 coup angered him and he did some activism to speak out against it. He sees the 2006 coup and the May 2010 crackdown in a similar light:

following the protests and crackdown in April and May, could not continue with my normal life because the government had killed people.

So basically he is into ideological activism.

It would be funny to see him protesting, with him and his followers in red shirts, against a Pheu Thai government if they were to take back power. He may have a lot more to complain about if that happened.

[hyperdimension]

I should have also added that Sombat thought of joining the PAD:

From the BK Magazine interview:

I nearly joined the PAD at the beginning but later decided to sit on the sidelines after Sonthi Limthongkul asked the military to come out. That's not what I wanted.

He may have good intentions for the people, but does he realize that his alignment and support for the UDD may be helping to bring about a Pheu Thai-led government that could be far worse in terms of what he is fighting against than the current Democrat-led government that he despises?

[rubl]

With k. Jatuporn speaking at the red stage on Ratchaprasong, k. Thaksin's phone-in, the title of this topic should be changed to something like "presence of UDD leader Jatuporn and (I don't even like) k. Thaksin's phone-in threatens Thida's credibility". At least I understand that to be the highlight of the evening. I must admit I had other things to do on a Sunday. Has k. Thida been present at all ?

[Buchholz]

Thida's credibility should have been discarded the minute she said she could not find a peace activist that fell in line with her goals.

Wasen't she a communist at one time? She sounds like a rebel with out a cause other than money.

Thida's credibility seems to be taking a daily hit lately. This was yesterday's shortcoming:

Thida Thawornseth, chairwoman of the red shirt movement, said Wednesdays that she had sent a letter to the International Court of Justice in The Hague of the Netherlands asking for observation of the court trial in Thailand.

Apparently Thida is unaware that what she wants is not a function of the ICJ in The Hague, but, still, it might be good for a chuckle for whoever reviews their incoming correspondence. I'm sure they receive all sorts of lunatic letters.

Perhaps one of the younger Red Shirts could show the retired academician how to use the Internet in order to review their website and learn just what they do:

http://www.icj-cij.org/homepage/index.php?p1=0〈=en

It might save her and her organization from yet another embarrassment in a long line of embarrassments.

The daily blow to Thida's credibility for today was...

Today, January 9, 2011:

Thida said she expected 60,000 protesters to attend

Today, January 9, 2011:

About 30,000 Thai "Red Shirts" gathered in Bangkok on Sunday

[rubl]

The daily blow to Thida's credibility for today was...

Today, January 9, 2011:

Thida said she expected 60,000 protesters to attend

Today, January 9, 2011:

About 30,000 Thai "Red Shirts" gathered in Bangkok on Sunday

I don't want to add insult to injury, but the OP mentioned three factions would join the rally:

- The first faction under Pithan Songampol, aka Pae Bangsanan

- "Facebook group" and comprises supporters of the Khattiyatham Party

- The third faction, representing the mainstream movement led by Thida

[jdinasia]

Highlights of the day's activities will include several activities for children, the awarding of scholarships and a phone-in by fugitive ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Krisana said

But nooooooo it really isn;t about Thaksin!

[Emptyset]

Thida (on the right of Jat here) was standing next to Jatuporn throughout. But seems pretty clear who was leading the proceedings. Apparently she looked quite unhappy through Thaksin's phone-in... Jatuporn is still the heavy hitter, the one that people love to hear speak. But the media also plays a role, because it's far more likely to report what Jatuporn and Thaksin say than Thida. Anyway, Thaksin didn't really say anything of note, just that he wasn't going to phone-in, but he heard about the "injustice" and that he'll be working to restore justice and democracy to Thailand this year. Once again confusing himself with these values and reinforcing the belief amongst (most) red shirts that justice and democracy are impossible to achieve without the help of Thaksin.

[Emptyset]

The daily blow to Thida's credibility for today was...

Today, January 9, 2011:

Thida said she expected 60,000 protesters to attend

Today, January 9, 2011:

About 30,000 Thai "Red Shirts" gathered in Bangkok on Sunday

I don't want to add insult to injury, but the OP mentioned three factions would join the rally:

- The first faction under Pithan Songampol, aka Pae Bangsanan

- "Facebook group" and comprises supporters of the Khattiyatham Party

- The third faction, representing the mainstream movement led by Thida

How do you know these factions didn't show up?

[rubl]

The daily blow to Thida's credibility for today was...

Today, January 9, 2011:

Thida said she expected 60,000 protesters to attend

Today, January 9, 2011:

About 30,000 Thai "Red Shirts" gathered in Bangkok on Sunday

I don't want to add insult to injury, but the OP mentioned three factions would join the rally:

- The first faction under Pithan Songampol, aka Pae Bangsanan

- "Facebook group" and comprises supporters of the Khattiyatham Party

- The third faction, representing the mainstream movement led by Thida

How do you know these factions didn't show up?

I think you misunderstand. I simply try to point out that assuming all three factions turned up, assuming k. Thida only represents the UDD, 30,000 for all three factions tends to make her claim even less accurate.

[whybother]

I think you misunderstand. I simply try to point out that assuming all three factions turned up, assuming k. Thida only represents the UDD, 30,000 for all three factions tends to make her claim even less accurate.

She was talking about all red shirts. You see, when it's something good or useful, it's "all red shirts". When it's something bad or annoying (or violent), it's only "this faction" of red shirts.

[hyperdimension]

You see, when it's something good or useful, it's "all red shirts". When it's something bad or annoying (or violent), it's only "this faction" of red shirts.

And none of them will condemn the violence because it brings all factions closer to their own goals.