Chiangmai Friends

[lannarebirth]

Do people really move to Thailand, to get involved with organisations like these?

Not I. I attended a Chiang Mai Expat meeting once and asked a friend to join me. It was excruciating. Not only was i looking at the clock every couple of minutes, which I thought must have been broken, I had to pay for the beating. Is the "Friends" group in the same vein?

[caf]

Do people really move to Thailand, to get involved with organisations like these?

I think some probably do. They like getting involved and running things

When you have been here a little time as most of us ( you included )have we see through these things for what they really are

I would like to see a genuine expats club ( with the emphasis on the word club )which would be available for the benefit of those who would find it useful, particularly for integration

Some networking is not a problem if controlled but running a club commercially does not work ( for the members, it works for those running it of course )

caf

[uptheos]

Do people really move to Thailand, to get involved with organisations like these?

Not I. I attended a Chiang Mai Expat meeting once and asked a friend to join me. It was excruciating. Not only was i looking at the clock every couple of minutes, which I thought must have been broken, I had to pay for the beating. Is the "Friends" group in the same vein?

Ditto, painful indeed and the CMF thing looks absolutely awful too.

I think if I had to succumb to spending my time in these places, it would most definitely be a signal that it's time to leave.

[MacWalen]

I like meeting people. So if food is good, plus 2 glasses of wine and meeting some interesting people. I think 599 is not too bad at all. I would join if I could. I would also like to see if some drunks were causing problems and were escorted out. That is just me. Of course for business it is good to know a lot of people, I went to Chiangmai expat meetings 3 times and it was really interesting, I'm talking about presentations. Someone mentioned that they could not wait till it finished, it was not my experience. I guess if you look at CMF meetings the experience could be similar. State of your mind. Positive or negative. Positive minds see things in positive light and negative in negative.

I have lived here for 10 years and I enjoy seeing how Thai people are trying to interact with farangs. The way I see it is that they are really trying. I like it the way it is. On this positive note time to do some work.

Edited January 19, 2011 by macwalen

[uptheos]

I like meeting people. So if food is good, plus 2 glasses of wine. Meeting some interesting people. I think 599 is not to bad at all. I would join if I could. I would also like to see if some drunks were causing problems and were escorted out. That is just me. Of course for business it is good to know a lot of people, I went to expat meeting 3 times and it was really interesting, I'm talking about presentations. Someone mentioned that they could not wait till it finishes, it was not my experience. I guess is you look at CMF meetings the experience could be similar. State of mind. Positive or negative. Positive minds see things is positive light and negative in negative.

I have lived here for 10 years and I enjoy seeing how Thai people are trying to interact with farangs. The way I see it is that they are really trying. I like it the way it is. On this positive note time to do some work.

Are these 'clubs' the sort of places that attract rowdy, problem causing drunks then?

[venturalaw]

Do people really move to Thailand, to get involved with organisations like these?

I think some probably do. They like getting involved and running things

When you have been here a little time as most of us ( you included )have we see through these things for what they really are

I would like to see a genuine expats club ( with the emphasis on the word club )which would be available for the benefit of those who would find it useful, particularly for integration

Some networking is not a problem if controlled but running a club commercially does not work ( for the members, it works for those running it of course )

caf

What type of controls do you deem necessary?

[MacWalen]

I like meeting people. So if food is good, plus 2 glasses of wine. Meeting some interesting people. I think 599 is not to bad at all. I would join if I could. I would also like to see if some drunks were causing problems and were escorted out. That is just me. Of course for business it is good to know a lot of people, I went to expat meeting 3 times and it was really interesting, I'm talking about presentations. Someone mentioned that they could not wait till it finishes, it was not my experience. I guess is you look at CMF meetings the experience could be similar. State of mind. Positive or negative. Positive minds see things is positive light and negative in negative.

I have lived here for 10 years and I enjoy seeing how Thai people are trying to interact with farangs. The way I see it is that they are really trying. I like it the way it is. On this positive note time to do some work.

Are these 'clubs' the sort of places that attract rowdy, problem causing drunks then?

I was only referring to the email. Certainly not expat meetings, I do not recall serving wine or other alcohol. WIth the CMF there were some issues caused by consuming too much alcohol apparently in the past and it was suggested that it could happen again.

[uptheos]

I like meeting people. So if food is good, plus 2 glasses of wine. Meeting some interesting people. I think 599 is not to bad at all. I would join if I could. I would also like to see if some drunks were causing problems and were escorted out. That is just me. Of course for business it is good to know a lot of people, I went to expat meeting 3 times and it was really interesting, I'm talking about presentations. Someone mentioned that they could not wait till it finishes, it was not my experience. I guess is you look at CMF meetings the experience could be similar. State of mind. Positive or negative. Positive minds see things is positive light and negative in negative.

I have lived here for 10 years and I enjoy seeing how Thai people are trying to interact with farangs. The way I see it is that they are really trying. I like it the way it is. On this positive note time to do some work.

Are these 'clubs' the sort of places that attract rowdy, problem causing drunks then?

I was only referring to the email. Certainly not expat meetings, I do not recall serving wine or other alcohol. WIth the CMF there were some issues caused by consuming too much alcohol apparently in the past and it was suggested that it could happen again.

Maybe they are looking for 'friends' in the wrong place and need to venture out around the bars.

The CM Expats should serve alcohol to numb the experience!

[harrry]

The last issue I recall with CMF was when they wanted to introduce a voluntary english teaching program and were adamant that the law regarding Work permits did not apply to them as they were good people. They were extremely critical of those who insisted that work permits were required in similar terms to those used now. It appears that those who have diferring views to events than the main organisers are imediately derided.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

As far as I have seen, they are a nice bunch and very enthusiastic and also very active. So, nothing wrong with that, they do good deeds, they get together, they have a good time, all harmless stuff. And I don't think that 599 is too expensive, these events do cost a lot of money to organise - sound systems, staff, stage, food, lighting, etc. However, I did have to giggle a bit at the comment about how donating the Thai way was unlike the western way where it is an investment! As far as I see, many of my Thai friends and family do good deeds and donate for the investment in their next life - the karma. And I think that the west is much more known for charitable work than the east. But that is just my perspective. I am a tad bitter about religion, so my opinion could well be tainted.

[wolf5370]

I think it depends what you call "commercially".

Business clubs (for movers and shakers) is good for those sort of people - connections is important especially in a foreign land (where more is pitted against you).

Social clubs work very well if the dues are low and profits are returned to the patrons - i.e. via a club house, members bar, free/subsidised events, etc. Even ones without brick and mortar, some dues can help with comraderie as it offers a small buy-in/commitment.

I think the main problem here, is that they all seem to be run as a business venture (to make money in one way or another) and no real thought towards the patrons outside of reaping them seems evident. Clubs that work invovle commitment and are more of a vocation to the organisers than a business. The patron needs to feel a return on their investment (dues) and not just part of some kind of pyramid selling venture. ROI can be via the wallet (i.e. business schmoozing/contacts/shared profit/etc) or emotional (friendship/comraderie/provide interest or hobby (photo clubs etc)), but it must be both evident and realised.

So, who wants to start up such a "club" when theyt will profit financially very little and undertake so much hasslte, loss of time and probably expense? People who lovbe their hobby and want others to share their interest with perhaps (photo clubs etc) - but social clubs? Groups of mates bumming around bars or restaurants seems the best that's available here for that - just too much work and red tape to do it properly and Thai groups doing it, ain't doing it for "friendship" but for profit.

Edited January 19, 2011 by wolf5370

[richard10365]

I totally agree with the original letter. While it is nice to have positive and good hearted foreigners and Thais who are willing to integrate and contribute their parts to the society in which we live, we should encourage people to leave who have found their ideas on how to live in this society don't match up with how things are actually done.

However, if you want to stay and live in misery while trying to convince others that your way is the only way to live, who are we to stop you. Maybe you can form a group of like minded foreigners who think all of Thailand should listen to your great western wisdom. You can have your own meetings and discuss ways on how you can force your ideas onto others. Perhaps Pattaya would be a better place to live for you folks.

I love living in Chiang Mai. There are markets every night of the week. It's not really an expensive place to live. People are generally friendly and traffic is really not that bad. I'm sure others like Chiang Mai for similar reasons. From time to time I like hanging out with these people. Chiang Mai Friends Group is a great place to meet people like this. If this appeals to you, then feel free to join. If not, that's ok too. Chiang Mai is big enough to share with unhappy people too.

[wolf5370]

As far as I have seen, they are a nice bunch and very enthusiastic and also very active. So, nothing wrong with that, they do good deeds, they get together, they have a good time, all harmless stuff. And I don't think that 599 is too expensive, these events do cost a lot of money to organise - sound systems, staff, stage, food, lighting, etc. However, I did have to giggle a bit at the comment about how donating the Thai way was unlike the western way where it is an investment! As far as I see, many of my Thai friends and family do good deeds and donate for the investment in their next life - the karma. And I think that the west is much more known for charitable work than the east. But that is just my perspective. I am a tad bitter about religion, so my opinion could well be tainted.

Yes, made by sputter my milk too - lol. One only has too look how many temples and other useless (and expensive on the community) white elephants have been "donated" by the wealthy to show how wealthy they are, buy merit and show off (make those contacts and get invited to the right get togethers) - sounds like an investment to me. My experience of charity in the west is that by far the majority of it is given anonymously - a slot in a box. What was the ROI on the billions raised and donated to Thailand after the sunarmi I wonder?

[caf]

Do people really move to Thailand, to get involved with organisations like these?

I think some probably do. They like getting involved and running things

When you have been here a little time as most of us ( you included )have we see through these things for what they really are

I would like to see a genuine expats club ( with the emphasis on the word club )which would be available for the benefit of those who would find it useful, particularly for integration

Some networking is not a problem if controlled but running a club commercially does not work ( for the members, it works for those running it of course )

caf

What type of controls do you deem necessary?

What I meant was the organisers applying a bit of common sense and not allowing full in the face hard selling and for the networking to be a by-product rather than the whole purpose of a social / expat meeting

[caf]

I think it depends what you call "commercially".

Business clubs (for movers and shakers) is good for those sort of people - connections is important especially in a foreign land (where more is pitted against you).

Social clubs work very well if the dues are low and profits are returned to the patrons - i.e. via a club house, members bar, free/subsidised events, etc. Even ones without brick and mortar, some dues can help with comraderie as it offers a small buy-in/commitment.

I think the main problem here, is that they all seem to be run as a business venture (to make money in one way or another) and no real thought towards the patrons outside of reaping them seems evident. Clubs that work invovle commitment and are more of a vocation to the organisers than a business. The patron needs to feel a return on their investment (dues) and not just part of some kind of pyramid selling venture. ROI can be via the wallet (i.e. business schmoozing/contacts/shared profit/etc) or emotional (friendship/comraderie/provide interest or hobby (photo clubs etc)), but it must be both evident and realised.

So, who wants to start up such a "club" when theyt will profit financially very little and undertake so much hasslte, loss of time and probably expense? People who lovbe their hobby and want others to share their interest with perhaps (photo clubs etc) - but social clubs? Groups of mates bumming around bars or restaurants seems the best that's available here for that - just too much work and red tape to do it properly and Thai groups doing it, ain't doing it for "friendship" but for profit.

Spot on: - though I think there may be some genuine guys and lasses who would be interested in having an informal expat group that was not profit driven but there for expat benefit when wanted. Thais seem to have a more monetary outlook rather than setting up a club for people's benefit ( something that sao jiangmai is alluding to in her post )

Her point about expenses is a little way off though. Do the maths !!! Yes, you need stage set ups and sound equipment etc; but at 599 baht plus annual membership the figures do not add up. As you said it's a monetary / business thing in Thailand. Different perspective of helping people than in the west

[caf]

I totally agree with the original letter. While it is nice to have positive and good hearted foreigners and Thais who are willing to integrate and contribute their parts to the society in which we live, we should encourage people to leave who have found their ideas on how to live in this society don't match up with how things are actually done.

However, if you want to stay and live in misery while trying to convince others that your way is the only way to live, who are we to stop you. Maybe you can form a group of like minded foreigners who think all of Thailand should listen to your great western wisdom. You can have your own meetings and discuss ways on how you can force your ideas onto others. Perhaps Pattaya would be a better place to live for you folks.

I love living in Chiang Mai. There are markets every night of the week. It's not really an expensive place to live. People are generally friendly and traffic is really not that bad. I'm sure others like Chiang Mai for similar reasons. From time to time I like hanging out with these people. Chiang Mai Friends Group is a great place to meet people like this. If this appeals to you, then feel free to join. If not, that's ok too. Chiang Mai is big enough to share with unhappy people too.

Oh come on; that's a bit jaded, Richard.

Talking of encouraging people to leave if they don't like it here. That's their business. This topic is focusing on the patronising attitude in the original email and the poor attempts to defend that email and the commercialisation of this group

And no-one is suggesting some farangs are forcing their ideas or imposing their western wisdom. Quite the opposite - disagree with the group it seems and you are branded a drunk and should be encouraged to go to the nearest airport. Do read some of these emails. As I said I think the concept is good but has become too commercial and some of the emails from this group are becoming Orwellian in character - "we know what's good for you "

As harry said " Sounds as if they have to change there name from CM Friends to CM Guests. You are not a friend but a guest that can be kicked out anytime,,,,or maybe CM Customers...pay and shut up.

Edited January 19, 2011 by caf

[canuckamuck]

Never heard of this Chiang Mai friends thing, but 599 gets me a nice pizza+ down at the Dukes and I can choose my own friend.

[richard10365]

I totally agree with the original letter. While it is nice to have positive and good hearted foreigners and Thais who are willing to integrate and contribute their parts to the society in which we live, we should encourage people to leave who have found their ideas on how to live in this society don't match up with how things are actually done.

However, if you want to stay and live in misery while trying to convince others that your way is the only way to live, who are we to stop you. Maybe you can form a group of like minded foreigners who think all of Thailand should listen to your great western wisdom. You can have your own meetings and discuss ways on how you can force your ideas onto others. Perhaps Pattaya would be a better place to live for you folks.

I love living in Chiang Mai. There are markets every night of the week. It's not really an expensive place to live. People are generally friendly and traffic is really not that bad. I'm sure others like Chiang Mai for similar reasons. From time to time I like hanging out with these people. Chiang Mai Friends Group is a great place to meet people like this. If this appeals to you, then feel free to join. If not, that's ok too. Chiang Mai is big enough to share with unhappy people too.

Oh come on; that's a bit jaded, Richard.

Talking of encouraging people to leave if they don't like it here. That's their business. This topic is focusing on the patronising attitude in the original email and the poor attempts to defend that email and the commercialisation of this group

And no-one is suggesting some farangs are forcing their ideas or imposing their western wisdom. Quite the opposite - disagree with the group it seems and you are branded a drunk and should be encouraged to go to the nearest airport. Do read some of these emails. As I said I think the concept is good but has become too commercial and some of the emails from this group are becoming Orwellian in character - "we know what's good for you "

As harry said " Sounds as if they have to change there name from CM Friends to CM Guests. You are not a friend but a guest that can be kicked out anytime,,,,or maybe CM Customers...pay and shut up.

Caf....I think you are right about my original post....it was a bit jaded. I apologize for that. Perhaps I am a bit cranky today.

I agree it's a person's business to stay if they don't like it here. I said that in my comments. However, if a group wants to limit the kind of people that attend their functions, that's their business as well. And if a member does not behave, the group should have the option to ask that member not to come back.

While I have attended many functions of the group, I don't recall ever seeing any of the problems that was mentioned in the original letter. To be honest, I am a bit surprised about the email and where it came from. I normally get emails from Chiang Mai Friends Group but I don't see that in any of my in boxes.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the group is too commercialized. No groups operate for free. There are expenses. This group provides a service to the community and at times the members need to pay for the use of these services. If you want a small group, then the expenses will be small. However, as the group grows, so do the expenses.

The original post came across a bit condescending as well. If I sound a bit jaded it's because I would expect someone like Mac Walen to be a bit more discrete in his comments about other organizations in the community. Sponsor or no sponsor, the intent of the message is not easy to ignore. It do think it was unprofessional.

[harrry]

I totally agree with the original letter. While it is nice to have positive and good hearted foreigners and Thais who are willing to integrate and contribute their parts to the society in which we live, we should encourage people to leave who have found their ideas on how to live in this society don't match up with how things are actually done.

However, if you want to stay and live in misery while trying to convince others that your way is the only way to live, who are we to stop you. Maybe you can form a group of like minded foreigners who think all of Thailand should listen to your great western wisdom. You can have your own meetings and discuss ways on how you can force your ideas onto others. Perhaps Pattaya would be a better place to live for you folks.

I love living in Chiang Mai. There are markets every night of the week. It's not really an expensive place to live. People are generally friendly and traffic is really not that bad. I'm sure others like Chiang Mai for similar reasons. From time to time I like hanging out with these people. Chiang Mai Friends Group is a great place to meet people like this. If this appeals to you, then feel free to join. If not, that's ok too. Chiang Mai is big enough to share with unhappy people too.

Oh come on; that's a bit jaded, Richard.

Talking of encouraging people to leave if they don't like it here. That's their business. This topic is focusing on the patronising attitude in the original email and the poor attempts to defend that email and the commercialisation of this group

And no-one is suggesting some farangs are forcing their ideas or imposing their western wisdom. Quite the opposite - disagree with the group it seems and you are branded a drunk and should be encouraged to go to the nearest airport. Do read some of these emails. As I said I think the concept is good but has become too commercial and some of the emails from this group are becoming Orwellian in character - "we know what's good for you "

As harry said " Sounds as if they have to change there name from CM Friends to CM Guests. You are not a friend but a guest that can be kicked out anytime,,,,or maybe CM Customers...pay and shut up.

Caf....I think you are right about my original post....it was a bit jaded. I apologize for that. Perhaps I am a bit cranky today.

I agree it's a person's business to stay if they don't like it here. I said that in my comments. However, if a group wants to limit the kind of people that attend their functions, that's their business as well. And if a member does not behave, the group should have the option to ask that member not to come back.

While I have attended many functions of the group, I don't recall ever seeing any of the problems that was mentioned in the original letter. To be honest, I am a bit surprised about the email and where it came from. I normally get emails from Chiang Mai Friends Group but I don't see that in any of my in boxes.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the group is too commercialized. No groups operate for free. There are expenses. This group provides a service to the community and at times the members need to pay for the use of these services. If you want a small group, then the expenses will be small. However, as the group grows, so do the expenses.

The original post came across a bit condescending as well. If I sound a bit jaded it's because I would expect someone like Mac Walen to be a bit more discrete in his comments about other organizations in the community. Sponsor or no sponsor, the intent of the message is not easy to ignore. It do think it was unprofessional.

My guess it is an attempt to stop people asking questions of the governor and mayor. I would take this as not good...even as a person living in a community we have a right to ask questions about what affects us. FOr example if someone asked why they were required to pay a fee for a free service is this acceptible or not. I agree about drunks but in this case I do not think the alcohol was what was being objected to. I actually went to attend one meeting but as it was upstairs I could not.

[caf]

I totally agree with the original letter. While it is nice to have positive and good hearted foreigners and Thais who are willing to integrate and contribute their parts to the society in which we live, we should encourage people to leave who have found their ideas on how to live in this society don't match up with how things are actually done.

However, if you want to stay and live in misery while trying to convince others that your way is the only way to live, who are we to stop you. Maybe you can form a group of like minded foreigners who think all of Thailand should listen to your great western wisdom. You can have your own meetings and discuss ways on how you can force your ideas onto others. Perhaps Pattaya would be a better place to live for you folks.

I love living in Chiang Mai. There are markets every night of the week. It's not really an expensive place to live. People are generally friendly and traffic is really not that bad. I'm sure others like Chiang Mai for similar reasons. From time to time I like hanging out with these people. Chiang Mai Friends Group is a great place to meet people like this. If this appeals to you, then feel free to join. If not, that's ok too. Chiang Mai is big enough to share with unhappy people too.

Oh come on; that's a bit jaded, Richard.

Talking of encouraging people to leave if they don't like it here. That's their business. This topic is focusing on the patronising attitude in the original email and the poor attempts to defend that email and the commercialisation of this group

And no-one is suggesting some farangs are forcing their ideas or imposing their western wisdom. Quite the opposite - disagree with the group it seems and you are branded a drunk and should be encouraged to go to the nearest airport. Do read some of these emails. As I said I think the concept is good but has become too commercial and some of the emails from this group are becoming Orwellian in character - "we know what's good for you "

As harry said " Sounds as if they have to change there name from CM Friends to CM Guests. You are not a friend but a guest that can be kicked out anytime,,,,or maybe CM Customers...pay and shut up.

Caf....I think you are right about my original post....it was a bit jaded. I apologize for that. Perhaps I am a bit cranky today.

I agree it's a person's business to stay if they don't like it here. I said that in my comments. However, if a group wants to limit the kind of people that attend their functions, that's their business as well. And if a member does not behave, the group should have the option to ask that member not to come back.

While I have attended many functions of the group, I don't recall ever seeing any of the problems that was mentioned in the original letter. To be honest, I am a bit surprised about the email and where it came from. I normally get emails from Chiang Mai Friends Group but I don't see that in any of my in boxes.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the group is too commercialized. No groups operate for free. There are expenses. This group provides a service to the community and at times the members need to pay for the use of these services. If you want a small group, then the expenses will be small. However, as the group grows, so do the expenses.

The original post came across a bit condescending as well. If I sound a bit jaded it's because I would expect someone like Mac Walen to be a bit more discrete in his comments about other organizations in the community. Sponsor or no sponsor, the intent of the message is not easy to ignore. It do think it was unprofessional.

Completley agree with your reply, Richard. I never saw or heard of any drunk rowdy or inappropriate behaviour at the meetings. This has either now been exaggerated as a maesure of damage limitaion on the original email or never really happened to any extent.

Boong would not have allowed that email to go out if she had seen it, I am sure, she is a very astute business woman. A mistake,in my view though, for her to have rushed her reply onto Thaivisa. Better to have concentrated on the positive aspects of integration and not to have tried to comment and justify some of the daft remarks in the original mail - as you say that was condescending and unprofessional.

Of course as organisations grow so do their expenses. And they must be covered by fees quite properly. But perhaps better not to stress the "not for profit organisation" so much. Not all farangs are fooled by that. If the organisers/owners whatever make some money from their efforts - no problem, just ensure it is transparent and members are aware. Hers is not the only similar organisation doing this

[richard10365]

I totally agree with the original letter. While it is nice to have positive and good hearted foreigners and Thais who are willing to integrate and contribute their parts to the society in which we live, we should encourage people to leave who have found their ideas on how to live in this society don't match up with how things are actually done.

However, if you want to stay and live in misery while trying to convince others that your way is the only way to live, who are we to stop you. Maybe you can form a group of like minded foreigners who think all of Thailand should listen to your great western wisdom. You can have your own meetings and discuss ways on how you can force your ideas onto others. Perhaps Pattaya would be a better place to live for you folks.

I love living in Chiang Mai. There are markets every night of the week. It's not really an expensive place to live. People are generally friendly and traffic is really not that bad. I'm sure others like Chiang Mai for similar reasons. From time to time I like hanging out with these people. Chiang Mai Friends Group is a great place to meet people like this. If this appeals to you, then feel free to join. If not, that's ok too. Chiang Mai is big enough to share with unhappy people too.

Oh come on; that's a bit jaded, Richard.

Talking of encouraging people to leave if they don't like it here. That's their business. This topic is focusing on the patronising attitude in the original email and the poor attempts to defend that email and the commercialisation of this group

And no-one is suggesting some farangs are forcing their ideas or imposing their western wisdom. Quite the opposite - disagree with the group it seems and you are branded a drunk and should be encouraged to go to the nearest airport. Do read some of these emails. As I said I think the concept is good but has become too commercial and some of the emails from this group are becoming Orwellian in character - "we know what's good for you "

As harry said " Sounds as if they have to change there name from CM Friends to CM Guests. You are not a friend but a guest that can be kicked out anytime,,,,or maybe CM Customers...pay and shut up.

Caf....I think you are right about my original post....it was a bit jaded. I apologize for that. Perhaps I am a bit cranky today.

I agree it's a person's business to stay if they don't like it here. I said that in my comments. However, if a group wants to limit the kind of people that attend their functions, that's their business as well. And if a member does not behave, the group should have the option to ask that member not to come back.

While I have attended many functions of the group, I don't recall ever seeing any of the problems that was mentioned in the original letter. To be honest, I am a bit surprised about the email and where it came from. I normally get emails from Chiang Mai Friends Group but I don't see that in any of my in boxes.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the group is too commercialized. No groups operate for free. There are expenses. This group provides a service to the community and at times the members need to pay for the use of these services. If you want a small group, then the expenses will be small. However, as the group grows, so do the expenses.

The original post came across a bit condescending as well. If I sound a bit jaded it's because I would expect someone like Mac Walen to be a bit more discrete in his comments about other organizations in the community. Sponsor or no sponsor, the intent of the message is not easy to ignore. It do think it was unprofessional.

My guess it is an attempt to stop people asking questions of the governor and mayor. I would take this as not good...even as a person living in a community we have a right to ask questions about what affects us. FOr example if someone asked why they were required to pay a fee for a free service is this acceptible or not. I agree about drunks but in this case I do not think the alcohol was what was being objected to. I actually went to attend one meeting but as it was upstairs I could not.

I have no idea what this has to do with the mayor. People who want to speak with the mayor should make an appointment at his office.

I agree with you about having the right to ask questions. However, I have found that asking at the right time and place tends to get better responses to my questions than asking at the wrong time.

Chiang Mai Friends Group schedules meetings with the mayor, the governor, Chief of Police, Immigration and many other organizations that deals with foreigners. Chiang Mai Friends Group members are invited to attend these meetings and ask questions.

Following Thai protocol on scheduling meetings with people such as the Mayor is how Chiang Mai Friends Group is able to arrange these question and answer sessions for local foreigners.

[caf]

"Chiang Mai Friends Group schedules meetings with the mayor, the governor, Chief of Police, Immigration and many other organizations that deals with foreigners. Chiang Mai Friends Group members are invited to attend these meetings and ask questions. "

I don't think this is at all accurate. There was a meeting with immigration a few years ago but it didnt really address any important issues. Thee were meetings with the old mayor where some questions were put sine die and then forgotten about. The new mayor has meeings with expats arranged by Chiangmai Friends ?? Don't think so but I stand to be corrected.

Back on topic. This thread is showing the organisation has lost the plot. Patronising, bordering on flaming from the first email

[Ulysses G.]

A leader of a similar group told me that Thai Government officials have started to refuse to speak at such meetings. According to him, they think that Westerner expats are too "rude".

[Loaded]

As most people know, Thailand is a hierarchical society with the governor and mayor way up there way out of view of most farang. It's expected we listen, nod in agreement while wearing a stupid grin when we meet these people. Unfortunately, most of us are not like that. I normally understand and practice respect for Thai mores but if the mayor and Governor are coming to a meeting of foreigners, they should expect questions that aren't intended to boost their egos. If they don't like it, they shouldn't go. Maybe CMF's would do better if they 'prepared' the puu yais rather than the paying audience.

A leader of a similar group told me that Thai Government officials have started to refuse to speak at such meetings. According to him, they think that Westerner expats are too "rude".

[uptheos]

As most people know, Thailand is a hierarchical society with the governor and mayor way up there way out of view of most farang. It's expected we listen, nod in agreement while wearing a stupid grin when we meet these people. Unfortunately, most of us are not like that. I normally understand and practice respect for Thai mores but if the mayor and Governor are coming to a meeting of foreigners, they should expect questions that aren't intended to boost their egos. If they don't like it, they shouldn't go. Maybe CMF's would do better if they 'prepared' the puu yais rather than the paying audience.

Very well said

[CMX]

A leader of a similar group told me that Thai Government officials have started to refuse to speak at such meetings. According to him, they think that Westerner expats are too "rude".

Loaded has anticipated me in making the point, briefly too. But I post anyway - this puzzlement is confusing to me.

I think that we're indulging in misunderstandings about culture here. When in its history have Thai officials welcomed questions in public forums that are not announced for that purpose, and where the questions are of the easy type, as in party meetings? Embarrassing questions have always been out of bounds and arrive like insults to one's character. Thus the rabid official letter. And, I think, the explanation. Westerners, they say, are just not "getting" the picture.

What has been passed on by "Friends" message #1's author is the official concern that someone will embarrass an official by asking a meaningful question. This is simply not done. Who among us supposes that transparency is part of the process here? Virtually all decisions and thinking takes place by the elected/establishment within closed doors. What's the point in asking questions anyway, except to cause disruption and bad feelings (is the thought). It is probably more beneficial for all around if, given an opportunity, one were to ask the official in question, after gushing about Chiang Mai, what his particular delights were. Take the point.

This is not exactly rare in the U.S. either, in that politicians regularly answer questions by speaking to other issues, changing the subject, and rushing on. Small towns and local communities are better for their community feel, as is doubtless the case here. But leaders here, in our interpretation, must seem arrogant - in theirs, keeping to the proper roles of the elected without the bother of playing in the mud (that would be us foreigners, necessary perhaps, but inconvenient).

Democracy and its ways are a'borning now here.

As for Expat Club, it is simple to decide whether one likes the speaker's promise or not - or perhaps has friends who attend. For example, I found it profitable to attend the new American Counsel's talk in order to see which set of prepared platitudes she would use - always a bellwether. Also, there are many sub-groups, not directly associated, that are entirely without commercial interests and perfect for getting to know folks and engage in enriching activities.

[venturalaw]

As most people know, Thailand is a hierarchical society with the governor and mayor way up there way out of view of most farang. It's expected we listen, nod in agreement while wearing a stupid grin when we meet these people. Unfortunately, most of us are not like that. I normally understand and practice respect for Thai mores but if the mayor and Governor are coming to a meeting of foreigners, they should expect questions that aren't intended to boost their egos. If they don't like it, they shouldn't go. Maybe CMF's would do better if they 'prepared' the puu yais rather than the paying audience.

A leader of a similar group told me that Thai Government officials have started to refuse to speak at such meetings. According to him, they think that Westerner expats are too "rude".

Loaded, I'd agree with you if this was a 'meeting'. However, the event is the 3rd. anniversary celebration. CMF has monthly meetings where when government officials are guests, following their speeches customarily they are available for questions from the attendees.

Edited January 20, 2011 by venturalaw

[harrry]

Of course in this case the Thai Way is not not to ask pertinent questions. It is to put on a brightly coloured shirt and go and occupy somewhere important. Then the polititians etc come to them to talk and if the people do not like what is said they burn down a building or two. Shall we say polka dot shirts at the Airport plaza corner?

[venturalaw]

Of course in this case the Thai Way is not not to ask pertinent questions. It is to put on a brightly coloured shirt and go and occupy somewhere important. Then the polititians etc come to them to talk and if the people do not like what is said they burn down a building or two. Shall we say polka dot shirts at the Airport plaza corner?

It's apparent that you have never attended a CMF meeting. A larger percentage of the attendees/members are from countries other than Thailand, the attire is business casual and the questions are not censored.

[harrry]

Of course in this case the Thai Way is not not to ask pertinent questions. It is to put on a brightly coloured shirt and go and occupy somewhere important. Then the polititians etc come to them to talk and if the people do not like what is said they burn down a building or two. Shall we say polka dot shirts at the Airport plaza corner?

It's apparent that you have never attended a CMF meeting. A larger percentage of the attendees/members are from countries other than Thailand, the attire is business casual and the questions are not censored.

Not sure if Venuralaw has had his coffee yet.