German Sentenced To Death Over Murder Of Swiss

[greedisgood]

Some how I missed this guys whole story. Anyone have any links to it, or any background ?

[jaapfries]

The death sentence is always inappropriate, it is uncivilized! It does not solve anything and this type of rather primitive ultimate revenge is not the proper way to go! This goes for any crime including child abusers, drug traffickers, murderers, corrupt politicians etc. I am happy that one of the conditions to become a member country of the European Common Market is the total abolishment of the death penalty.

Imagine what it really is. It is some people in power - physical - tie someone up and then kill him in various ways (humans are excellent in thinking up ideas for this bizarre ritual). How humiliating for the executors. They don’t even have to fight to get the result they want except with their conscience which they probably don't have . . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

====================================================

Have any of you people ever considered the "alternative" to "putting someone to death" ? ? ?

You see; it is my contention, that by "ending someone's life" you're also ending this person's pain & suffering . . . . I feel that they don't deserve this luxury !

I am against the taking of a life, but only because it's much more painful for such a person (if he/she is been found guilty, beyond any reasonable doubt ! !) to be incarcerated, until "The Manufacturer" decides that it is time for his/her natural "expiration" ! This way, such a person will have a long, long time to contemplate the horrific suffering he/she has bestowed on the relatives, friends etc. of the person(s) he/she has murdered.

Of course, in this particular nation, the operative term is "without any reasonable doubt" !

After some 14 years in Thailand, it is very clear that "reasonable doubt" excists about the integrity of the Police, the Courts and (as of recent) indeed, the Government.

As Churchill once remarked: "For everything that happens in this world, there's a logical explanation . . . . . . . . . . . . . and then; there's the truth !"

Oh; and by the way; to all those tough talking "Kill, kill, kill" proponents out there: have you EVER pointed a loaded gun, with the safety OFF, at someone ? ? ? ? Better think again !

[george]

Some how I missed this guys whole story. Anyone have any links to it, or any background ?

I couldn't find any old news items related to this story.

[will2go]

I think the death sentence should be given to simpering wanks who make wreckless claims in order to strengthen a weak argument. The statement that "DNA sampling proves that 30% of all death sentences are carried out on the wrong man" is downright moronic. Check your facts Gomer.

[danone]

Some how I missed this guys whole story. Anyone have any links to it, or any background ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/pag...107455&usrsess=

[Gimp]

Anyone seen the movie on UBC at present? "The Life Of David Gale" Had to make you think that not everyone is guilty. Right? But as people have said do the crime in what ever country & live (or die) by there rules.

[bajajvivek]

The death sentence is always inappropriate, it is uncivilized! It does not solve anything and this type of rather primitive ultimate revenge is not the proper way to go! This goes for any crime including child abusers, drug traffickers, murderers, corrupt politicians etc. I am happy that one of the conditions to become a member country of the European Common Market is the total abolishment of the death penalty.

Imagine what it really is. It is some people in power - physical - tie someone up and then kill him in various ways (humans are excellent in thinking up ideas for this bizarre ritual). How humiliating for the executors. They don’t even have to fight to get the result they want except with their conscience which they probably don't have . . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Things would have been different if the one who died would have been some loved one of yours. If in some cases it may seem cruel but if no hard actions are taken, it may also pass on the message to the culprits that they can get away with whatever they do.

[cutter007]

I live in Thailand, and don't really want to leave as of yet. Do I have to because I don't want to be put to death if I am in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I could easily be walking down the hall of the Banyan Tree hotel going to my room as I pass a gentleman that looks stresses and upset. But pass it off as nothing. 2 months later and I have just been sentenced to death for the murder of K.Nipaporn. You see K.Nipaporn was the wife of the son of a powerful Senator. And the son had murdered his wife over the fact that she was seen by some of his friends entering another mans hotel room. The son had an alibis from several high ranking police as to his where abouts that night. And since the Senator has no intentions of his son going away to prison, I was the next canidate in line as I was seen outside of the couples room, by a couple of hotel staff.

I believe that story is entirely plausable and for all you people out there that think the death sentence is a great idea in Thailand, I have a feeling

that if this happened to you, you might have a different opinion on the subject.

[Rumpole]

We should send criminals to Singapore for punishment....they're really good at it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless I were an opposition politician or newspaper editor, I would have much more confidence in the judicial process in Singapore than its Thai equivalent.

Edited September 1, 2005 by Rumpole

[ajarndave]

For the most part this seems to be "Academic CRAP!!!" I'm sure all you couch philanthropists would have a new opinion, if the victim were a friend, coleague, avan an aquaintence!! how about if the victim was a child?? even worse, YOUR child!!!! Now how do you think??

Have any of you people ever considered the "alternative" to "putting someone to death" ? ? ?

You see; it is my contention, that by "ending someone's life" you're also ending this person's pain & suffering . . . . I feel that they don't deserve this luxury !

A good start, but we have a LOT of alternatives to explore?!? I have a list!!

[bendix]

I'm anti-death penalty on both moral and the fallibility of legal process grounds.

But while i feel empathy (not sympathy) for this guy who has been convicted, I also believe that if I choose to live here then I have no right to get too judgemental about what Thai society chooses to do with its criminals.

It's a moot argument anyway. He won't be executed. More likely that he'll be shipped back to Germany to serve a custodial sentence or will get a reprieve in the usual Kings Birthday pardon list in December.

I think I'm right in saying that despite the high number of people on death row in Thailand, there hasnt been an execution here for nearly two years. And executing a foreigner in today's political climate? I can't see it myself.

[kolat]

I agree with the death penalty, just take a look at how it has sorted out all the problems in the US

[chuchok]

i dont have a problem with death sentences being given and carried out for murder , but in this country , with no jury and with a police force and judiciary that can do as they please and can be bought , with evidence gathering and forensic skills open to question , well you have to wonder if this sentence is right.

i dont know the details of the crime , in fact i doubt if anyone , including the police and judiciary know the details of the crime , but in this case i hope the sentence is not carried out , and i doubt it will be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well this is by far the most intelligent post on the subject.Some of you who are calling for the Death Penalty forthwith, should read this & hopefully learn something.

Edited September 1, 2005 by chuchok

[Crushdepth]

Agreed, you live by the laws of the Country, If you don't like it then you have a choice. Stay or Leave.

Except that the law in this country is a joke, and that a significant proportion of the people who enforce it are largely corrupt.

[Gimp]

If I am right in saying... no westerner has ever actually been put to death in Thailand? Sentenced to death, yes but then reduced to life. So will he really be put to death? No, I don’t think so.

[easy_jim]

For the most part this seems to be "Academic CRAP!!!" I'm sure all you couch philanthropists would have a new opinion, if the victim were a friend, coleague, avan an aquaintence!!  how about if the victim was a child?? even worse, YOUR child!!!! Now how do you think??   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A complicated issue but justice and revenge are not the same thing. Yes if you were related to the victim then the death penalty would seem appropriate. But that is why legal systems require judges and juries so they can make a fair judgement unaffected by the emotional trauma of those involved in the case. How can someone in the midst of grief make a reasoned judgement about someones guilt and their appropriate sentence.

The strongest argument against the death penalty has already been mentioned - the finality. You can not bring someone back to life if you later find they were innocent. There have been too many miscarriages of justice to pretend this does not happen. Do you imagine that everybody found guilty is guilty or do you think that it is okay if the state unfortunately kills a few innocent people?

As previously mentioned - if the crime is truly heinous it is better to jail the perpetrator for the rest of their life.

[Sir Burr]

A complicated issue but justice and revenge are not the same thing.  Yes if you were related to the victim then the death penalty would seem appropriate.  But that is why legal systems require judges and juries so they can make a fair judgement unaffected by the emotional trauma of those involved in the case.  How can someone in the midst of grief make a reasoned judgement about someones guilt and their appropriate sentence.

The strongest argument against the death penalty has already been mentioned -  the finality.  You can not bring someone back to life if you later find they were innocent.  There have been too many miscarriages of justice to pretend this does not happen.  Do you imagine that everybody found guilty is guilty or do you think that it is okay if the state unfortunately kills a few innocent people?

As previously mentioned - if the crime is truly heinous it is better to jail the perpetrator for the rest of their life.

Excellent post.

[Sangsom]

A complicated issue but justice and revenge are not the same thing.  Yes if you were related to the victim then the death penalty would seem appropriate.  But that is why legal systems require judges and juries so they can make a fair judgement unaffected by the emotional trauma of those involved in the case.  How can someone in the midst of grief make a reasoned judgement about someones guilt and their appropriate sentence.

The strongest argument against the death penalty has already been mentioned -  the finality.  You can not bring someone back to life if you later find they were innocent.  There have been too many miscarriages of justice to pretend this does not happen.  Do you imagine that everybody found guilty is guilty or do you think that it is okay if the state unfortunately kills a few innocent people?

As previously mentioned - if the crime is truly heinous it is better to jail the perpetrator for the rest of their life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could not agree more! Revenge is not equal to justice. Revenge often calls for more revenge . . .

Then I like to point out that my intitial message in which I oppose the death penalty has been misread by several people. Never did I suggest that crimes should not be punished, never did I say that one should not abide by the laws of the country one is in. Even if one does not approve of such laws you have to respect them while in that particular country or else leave!

The idea that opponents of the death penalty are liberals I find weird. I for myself am not a liberal, not a conservative neither have I socialistic of communistic sympathies. I am totally a-political. I said farewell to politics more than 20 years ago! I saw that it did not work in my country (always a vague coalition of several parties) and decided to stay away from it.

Life imprisonment is a harsh penalty! In many countries it is often reduced to a maximum of 20 years which is already a long time. People returning into society after such a long time in prison will have a very hard time once they are set free. Maybe from this point of view the death penalty is kinder, but that does not make it proper behaviour.

I agree with those who refer to the errors that can be made and cannot be corrected when the punishment - put to death - has been carried out. But more over I oppose this penalty for its inhuman character, that it is for the sake of revenge etc. I am happy that we in Europe have left those primitive times, when that was done there too, far behind!

[hkt83100]

Some how I missed this guys whole story. Anyone have any links to it, or any background ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/pag...107455&usrsess=

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the link. By the way, the article starts with:

"A Swiss national was found dead at the house of an Australian citizen in San Kamphaeng district, police said yesterday."

How does such a change of nationality happen?

Cheers from Phuket

[NextStationBangkok]

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- A foundation campaigning against drunken driving said Thursday that a landmark decision handing down a death sentence to an intoxicated driver who killed four people would help reduce the carnage on Thailand's roads.

A 23-year-old former college student, Nattapong Raksapong, was sentenced to death by a court in northeastern Thailand on Wednesday on several charges related to a 2004 drunk driving rampage in which four people were killed, four injured and five vehicles damaged.

"This is a historic verdict and should set a precedent in cases of drunken drivers who kill innocent people on the roads," said Surasit Silapangam of the Don't Drink and Drive Foundation.

He said that drunken driving was involved in some 80 percent of the more than 14,500 deaths and 1.08 million injuries on Thailand's roads last year.

Thailand has one of the world's highest mortality rates from road accidents.

Surasit said that during the foundation's 10 years of campaigning, drunken drivers normally received only suspended jail sentences.

While intoxicated, Nattapong first struck a motorcycle, sped away and then crashed into two other motorcycles while driving a six-wheel truck in the northeastern province of Mahasarakham. He tried to flee but crashed into a truck.

Nattapong denied charges of intentionally trying to kill someone, saying he was just involved in an accident.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[NextStationBangkok]

I Feel they should include drive & speak mobile phone users in this list. I have excaped many times from these f**kers while zeebra crossing.

[Ronpang]

I still think a life time in prison should be more suitable for this case.

[NextStationBangkok]

I posted with out seeing George's post, can u remove this whole topic from list ?

[treefrog]

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- A foundation campaigning against drunken driving said Thursday that a landmark decision handing down a death sentence to an intoxicated driver who killed four people would help reduce the carnage on Thailand's roads.

So would making the wearing of seatbelts a legal requirement, particularly in taxis, but noone seems to have thought of that.

[Irish]

In all the talk about the right and wrong of the death penalty... What is the alternative? I think of the families of victims left behind.

If I had killed my ex mother-in-law like I wanted to 20 years ago I would be free now and have a trade and a whole sack load of skills that I would have picked up inside like carpentry and welding etc... I would also most likely have a nice sweet person find me a job and help me integrate back into society. Then marry the pen-pal that wrote to me in prison from prisonervisitors'R'us.

Ain't it sweeeeeeeeeet......

If a dog bites a child he is most likely put down... If somebody murdered anyone I loved I would not want him/her living in relative comfort with 3 meals a day and SKY movies.

Get real all you bleeding hearts... An eye for an eye and HANG em HIGH.

[GuestHouse]

How many times do we hear complaints of the corrupt/injust/incompetent Thai police and Courts?

And yet, more than a few here are willing to accept these corrupt/unjust/incompetent Thai Police and Courts should have the unchallenged right to execute the people they find guilty of certain crimes.

My objection to the death sentence has always been that it has no recourse to correction when the police and courts get it wrong.

Which they do so very often, especially in Thailand.

[bendix]

Congratulations, Irish, on the most stupid post of this thread.

If I were you, I'd take some advice some Voltaire: "Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all possible doubt."

I've generally found that people who support the death penalty do so from the heart or the gut. People who actually take time to use their heads, on the other hand, come to the conclusion that the death penalty is fundamentally flawed.

But - judging by your post - I guess there's not much point in asking you to use your mind, is there?

[Maejo Man]

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- A foundation campaigning against drunken driving said Thursday that a landmark decision handing down a death sentence to an intoxicated driver who killed four people would help reduce the carnage on Thailand's roads.

So would making the wearing of seatbelts a legal requirement, particularly in taxis, but noone seems to have thought of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I beg to correct you there. It is law, and they did think of it, and perople do get fined frequently for not wearing them. Including the front seat of a taxi!

It carries a 200 baht fine in the northern provinces, and more in metropolitan Bangkok.....

[Tokker]

Question for the eye for an eye-guys: Can we also apply the death penalty on the procecution, judge and jury who later turn out to be responsible for wrongly convicting somebody to death? All you quick-to-judge-kill'em-all-and-let-god-sort 'em-out people would in that case be dead already.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal. I support the principle of the death penalty but only in an ideal world where all the facts and circumstances are known.

[BARRYT]

Please don't tell me this was a argument!!! over a towel on a deck chair around a pool at 6.30 in the morning.