Another Plane Crash

[cdnvic]

JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) -- An Indonesian jetliner has crashed into a residential neighborhood in the city of Medan one minute after takeoff and burst into flames, killing at least 60 people, witnesses said.

The plane was operated by Mandala, a low-cost carrier partially owned by the military, and was heading to Jakarta when it crashed into a crowded housing complex, Rizal, a witness, told Metro television station on Monday.

It was not immediately clear how many people were on board the plane.

Syahrial Anas, a doctor who was overseeing the removal of charred bodies, said at least 60 people were killed.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/09/0...e.ap/index.html

cv

[britmaveric]

Makes you think twice about going the low cost route!! (poor maintenance is normally the major concern)

[cdnvic]

Makes you think twice about going the low cost route!! (poor maintenance is normally the major concern)

That's my concern with any Indonesian carrier.

As for it being a low cost problem, that's not where low cost airlines save their money. (as discussed elsewhere in this forum)

cv

[cdnvic]

147 die, 6 survive as Indonesian jetliner crashes

Last Updated Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:58:31 EDT

CBC News

A jetliner crashed Monday in a residential neighbourhood of Indonesia's third biggest city killing 147 people. The toll includes 30 people on the ground. Six passengers survived.

The Mandala Airlines Boeing 737 crashed seconds after takeoff in the residential area of Medan, the capital of North Sumatra province. The jet broke into pieces, setting fire to homes and created mass panic.

"We were gaining height and the landing gear was being retracted" when the crash occurred, said passenger Rohadi Sitepu.

"I was thrown to the ground and escaped through a hole in the fuselage. I ran and ran because I was worried there would be an explosion."

Hundreds of policemen, paramedics and residents tried to evacuate victims from the crash scene. But flames and the thousands of people wanting to visit the crash site hampered efforts.

Conditions at the local hospital were chaotic as patients were brought in. Most were burnt beyond recognition.

The dead included the governor of North Sumatra province, who was heading to the capital for a meeting with the president. President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono ordered a probe into the crash.

Mandala Airlines director Asril Tanjung speculated on the cause of the disaster. "Temporarily, we are saying the cause is from take-off failure but we don't know yet whether it was from engine trouble, human error or weather."

Tanjung felt that foul play was highly unlikely.

Tanjung said the plane was built in 1981 and was fit for eight more years of flying.

Medan is 1,425 km northwest of Jakarta. It is the main gateway for aid into tsunami-hit Aceh province. The city's international airport is surrounded by densely populated residential areas.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...h_20050905.html

[DJ Moore]

JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) -- An Indonesian jetliner has crashed into a residential neighborhood in the city of Medan

Another Plane Crash:

=============================================

Is it my imagination but in the last 4, or 5 weeks or so, haven't there been about 4 plane crashes around the world and all having been Boeings?.................DJM

[cdnvic]

4 out of tens of thousands does not make a trend.

cv

JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) -- An Indonesian jetliner has crashed into a residential neighborhood in the city of Medan

Another Plane Crash:

=============================================

Is it my imagination but in the last 4, or 5 weeks or so, haven't there been about 4 plane crashes around the world and all having been Boeings?.................DJM

[bdenner]

Sorry to make light of another trajic event but this translation error made me smile.

"We were gaining height and the landing gear was being retracted" when the crash occurred, said passenger Rohadi Sitepu.

Been on a number of Indonesian Airlines, Merpati Sampati and the like. Very uncomfortable feeling.

[AsiaWolfie]

all the big news agencies were talking about Mandala being a "LOW COST" carrier. thats complete nonsense. ALL Indonesian airlines have low fares, even GARUDA. otherwise nobody would be able to afford flying there. Mandala is definitely NOT a low cost carrier, its just one of the around 20 domestic airlines there.... offering low fares as ANY other airline there does. the typical low cost airlines "like airasia f.e.) does:

a) not offer baggage allowance more than 15 kg (Mandala: 30 Kg),

b ) have free seating (Mandala and almost ALL other domestic airlines provide you with a seat number you can choose)

c) not offer any food or drinks for free (Mandala will provide with a small lunch pack even for a 50 minutes-domestic flight)

the only REAL low-cost carriers in Indonesia are AWAIR (air asia - subsidiary) and WINGS AIR (LION AIR - subsidiary, LION is the airline which had the crash in Solo couple of month ago, but thats another topic)

of course in the end, if you crash, it doesnt matter which airline u choose..... even GARUDA, the most expensive airline there, doesnt have a good reputation for being really safe.... those airlines ALL use aircrafts 20+ yera sold.... for example, Garuda bought some old B 737 from AEROFLOT last year....

after Indonesia, the last destination for those aircraft is usually Africa, such as Sudan or Ethiopia, where they are being used for domestic destinations until they crash or cant move anymore.....

oh by the way, I was flying MANDALA just 6 weeks ago from Yogya to Jakarta and found their planes in good condition, the body and the inside.....

much better than for example LION or the notorious BOURAQ or MERPATI (where the pilots have a reputation of being drunk often).....

but as u see, its all destiny....

and such thing can happen to big airlines as well..... or did u already forget the AIR FRANCE crash in Toronto lately ?

Edited September 6, 2005 by AsiaWolfie

[DJ Moore]

4 out of tens of thousands does not make a trend.

==================================

I certainly agree with the above.

My point being, I feel that what has occurred in the last month or so, seems to me suspicious.

Aug. 2, 2005 - An Air France Airbus bursts into flames after overshooting the runway while landing at Toronto's Pearson International Airport in a storm, but all 309 passengers and crew survive.

Aug. 14, 2005 - A Helios Airlines Boeing 737 crashes in the area of Kalamos, 30 km (19 miles) north of the Greek capital, Athens, killing all 121 passengers and crew on board.

Aug. 16, 2005 - A West Caribbean Airways MD-80 aircraft crashes near Venezuela's border with Colombia, in the Sierra de Perija mountains. All 160 passengers and crew are killed.

Aug. 23, 2005 - A Boeing 737-200 aircraft of Peru's state-run airline TANS with 100 people aboard crashes during a severe storm in the country's northeastern jungle, killing at least 40 people and injuring at least 20.

Sept 5, 2005 - A Boeing 737-200 operated by Indonesian carrier Mandala Airlines crashes just after takeoff near Medan, Indonesia's third-biggest city, in northern Sumatra. At least 100 people are feared dead after the plane broke into pieces and set fire to homes and cars.

It's got me thinking a bit anyway.................. DJM

[mai_ow]

737

[Flysiam]

Makes you think twice about going the low cost route!! (poor maintenance is normally the major concern)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's my concern with any Indonesian carrier.

As for it being a low cost problem, that's not where low cost airlines save their money. (as discussed elsewhere in this forum)

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That should be your concern with any of the Thai airlines as well! If you think that maintenance isn't shorted as a way to save money you are VERY poorly informed and naive to boot!

[cdnvic]

737

Your point?

cv

[mai_ow]

737

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your point?

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

------------------------------------

Fatal Boeing 737 Events

5 September 2005; Mandala Airlines 737-200; Medan, Indonesia

23 August 2005; Transportes Aéreos Nacionales de la Selva (TANS) 737-200; Pulcallpa, Peru

14 August 2005; Helios Airways 737-300; Grammatikos, Greece

3 February 2005; Kam Air 737-200; near Kabul, Afghanistan

3 January 2004; Flash Airlines 737-300; near Sharm El-Sheikh, Egypt

8 July 2003; Sudan Airways 737-200C; near Port Sudan, Sudan

15 March 2003; Air China 737-300; en route Hong Kong to Beijing

6 March 2003; Air Algérie 737-200; near Tamanrasset, Algeria

7 May 2002; EgyptAir 737-500; near Tunis, Tunisia

11 August 2000; Southwest Airlines 737; en route from Las Vegas, NV to Salt Lake City, UT

17 July 2000; Alliance Air 737-200; Patna, India

19 April 2000; Air Philippines 737-200; near Davao, Philippines

31 August 1999; LAPA 737-200; Buenos Aires, Argentina

5 May 1998; Occidental Petroleum 737-200;near Andoas, Peru

19 December 1997; SilkAir 737-300; near Palembang, Indonesia

8 May 1997; China Southern Airlines 737-300; Shenzhen, China

2 April 1996; U.S. Air Force 737-T43; near Dubrovnik, Croatia

29 February 1996; Faucett Airlines 737-200; Arequipa, Peru

3 December 1995; Cameroon Airlines 737-200; Douala, Cameroon

13 November 1995; Nigeria Airways 737-200; Kaduna, Nigeria

9 August 1995; Aviateca 737-200; near San Salvador, El Salvador

29 December 1994; THY Turkish Airlines 737-400; near Van, Turkey

8 September 1994; USAir 737-300; near Pittsburgh, PA

26 July 1993; Asiana Airlines 737-500; near Mokpo, Korea

26 April 1993; Indian Airlines 737-200; Aurangabad, India

24 November 1992; China Southern Airlines 737-300; Guangzhou, China

6 June 1992; COPA Panama 737-200; near Ticuti, Panama

16 August 1991; Indian Airlines 737-200; near Imphal, India

3 March 1991; United Airlines 737-200; near Colorado Springs, CO

1 February 1991; USAir 737-300; Los Angeles, CA

2 October 1990; Xiamen Airlines 737-200; Guangzhou, China

11 May 1990; Philippine Airlines 737-300; Manila, Philippines

26 October 1989; China Airlines 737-200; near Hualien, Taiwan

20 September 1989; USAir 737-400; La Guardia Airport, New York

3 September 1989; Varig 737-200; near Sao Jose do Xingu, Brazil

9 March 1989; Piedmont 737-200; near Dayton, OH

8 January 1989; British Midland Airways 737-400; near East Midlands Airport, UK

19 October 1988; Indian Airlines 737-200; Ahmedabad, India

15 September 1988; Ethiopian Airlines 737-200; Bahar Dar, Ethiopia

28 April 1988; Aloha 737-200; near Maui, HI

4 January 1988; Condor 737-200; Izmir, Turkey

31 August 1987; Thai Airways 737-200; Phuket, Thailand

4 August 1987; LAN Chile 737-200; Calama, Chile

25 December 1986; Iraqi Airways 737-200; Over Saudi Arabia

16 February 1986; China Airlines 737-200; Pescadores Islands, Taiwan

28 January 1986; VASP 737-200; Sao Paulo, Brazil

23 November 1985; Egyptair 737-200; Valletta, Malta

22 August 1985; British Airtours 737-200; Manchester Airport, England

15 April 1985; Thai Airways 737-200; Phuket, Thailand

30 August 1984; Cameroon Airlines 737-200; Douala, Cameroon

8 November 1983; TAAG Angola Airlines 737-200; Lubango, Angola

23 September 1983; Gulf Air 737-200; Mino Jobel Ali, near Abu Dhabi, UAE

11 July 1983; TAME 737-200; near Cuenca, Ecuador

25 May 1982; VASP 737-200; Brasilia, Brazil

13 January 1982; Air Florida 737-200; Washington, DC

22 August 1981; Far Eastern Air Transport 737-200; near Sanyi, Taiwan

10 May 1980; Indian Airlines 737-200; near Rampur Hat, India

11 February 1978; Pacific Western Airlines 737-200; Cranbrook Airport, Canada

4 December 1977; Malaysian Airline System 737-200; near Johore Strait, Malaysia

31 May 1973; Indian Airlines 737-200; near New Dehli, India

8 December 1972; United Airlines 737-200; Midway Airport, Chicago

5 July 1972; Pacific Southwest 737-200; San Francisco, CA

----------------------------------------------------

[cdnvic]

737s are by far the most common airliner in service now. They have a good safety record, and the number of accidents is representitive of how many 1000s of them are in service around the world.

If you looked at motorcycle accident records in Thailand you could come to the conclusion that Hondas were much more dangerous than Kawasakis, but like the 737 reference, it wouldn't be an accurate assesment. There's just way more hondas out there than kawasakis.

cv

[toothfairy]

I'm a hypnotherapist and let me just add one point here that I use when working with flying phobics. Aeroplanes are the second safest form of transport - behind lifts! I rest my case, yer honour!

[think_too_mut]

At any given moment there are 1000 B-737s in the air.

The factory has delivered 5000 of them since 1967.

737-200 production run from 1967 to 1987. So, the youngest of the planes are 20 years old.

[think_too_mut]

The plane that crashed (PK-RIM) was built in 1981. and acquired from Lufthansa.