Isaan Village Funeral

[tmwke]

Hi Thai forumers ! Maybe some one can help out there.The farther in law is about to pass on to the land Nirvana. He is your typical Lau cow ,smoking , never done a days work since his daughters were sent to Bangkok 12yrs ago. O sorry that was a mistake. He is your typical proud hard working trustworthy Thai farmer. Anyway what i would like to know is. Including the Monks etc how much should it cost. Now because of two Falangs married to there daughters, the (clingons) in the family have reasonable status so i am reckoning on the 5 day booze up. Also i have heard sometimes the village chips in.Obviously were going to be hit with some of the costs, so i would like to be prepared as i only want to be ripped off as little as possible. Many Thanks for taking the time to read this .

[craigt3365]

How about we move this to the Issan forum?

[sinbin]

There is no limits. The bigger the funeral party the bigger the prestige. You have have to decide on how much you want to contribute, if at all. In most villages they do a form of collective insurance where they pay sums on a regular basis which accumulates in a fund to be paid out on death. In Thai, it's ฌาปณกิจหมู่บ้าน. In English it's 'Cremation Association Of Relief'. Or something like that. Chances are he'll pay into one or more. You probably won't be told this so as to ensure a heftier contribution.

Edited February 6, 2011 by sinbin

[gotlost]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

[mario299]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

Sorry, the wife says "bullsh@t mak mak". cannot be done for 20K. Five days will run about 100,000 or so, but cost is offset by envelopes given by guests and the probable Cremation Insurance fund (usually about 10,000 in fund) kept by village for this purpose and usually contributed to by family. We put in 1 baht/day for wife's aunt (30 baht/month), max they will pay is 10,000. Also, as rice farmer in Issan he probably deals with Rice Bank and probably has insurance with them as well. Correct assumption that you will probably not be told about these insurances. Best of luck, the wife's grandmama passed away a year ago (at 102 years old) and the costs exceeded 150,000. It was well done, and worth the expense. Chok dee!

mario299 :jap:

[CelticBhoy]

Mother-in-law's funeral 'week' ran to

60,000 Baht last December.

Some villagers chipped-in, but not a lot

was gathered from them.

Best of luck.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Some ballpark information below for 3 day affair and not extravagant. These were actual charges for a recent funeral here in Prasat.

20k just covers the Wats charges for the funeral at the Wat and the cremation. Usually the Thai family receives enough "death insurance" to cover the full funeral cost although it seems a pity that they don't save this money for one of the kids education instead of "throwing" it away on a party. But that is just the way it is.

Itemized Funeral Costs

Ambulance Transportation to/from Hospital 1,000 Baht (for death certificate and injection of preservation chemicals)

Ceremonial Photo and Decorations 1,500 Baht

Cremation Urn for remains 1,800 Baht

Music (3 Day Funeral Music) 4,000 Baht

Funeral Tents/Seating/Tables 2,000 Baht

Refrigeration Unit (Body Preservation) 2,000 Baht

Photography - Still and Movie 3,000 Baht

Wat Services 20,000 Baht

Non-pork food and refreshments 23,000 Baht

Live Pigs and Pork 26,280 Baht

Flowers 2,500 Baht

Offerings to Monks 5,000 Baht

Casket 8,000 Baht

Security - Honor Guard 2,000 Baht

Parade and Transport Vehicle 3,000 Baht

Khmer Band 6,000 Baht

Total 111,080 Baht

[elwood]

You seem to be approaching this with a pretty jaundiced attitude, automatically assuming that you as a farang will be ripped off and have to pay for everything.

Over the past 15 years I have attended the funerals of both my parents-in-law, a sister-in-law and a brother-in-law, and two cousins. At all these funerals the funds came from village funeral insurance, as has been mentioned elsewhere, envelopes from villagers attending the rites, and various other odds and sods that I didn't try to understand. At no time was I expected to pay for the funeral - any extra costs were shared equally between myself and other relatives and children of the deceased.; normally the only contribution made by my wife and I was the merit in the envelope, and that just the standard amount.

Elwood

[BuckarooBanzai]

If the family does not already have a grave site with a cement tomb to place the ashes in it will run another 5k to 10k baht.

[rgs2001uk]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

The last two I attended cost 20,000 and 50,000 respectively.

It should be noted there were no marching bands, luk tung singers, coyote dancers, pigs on spits, free flow alcohol or gambling in sight.

Family and friends only, no free loading loafers bums and dead beats present, if done properly it can be very dignified.

[gotlost]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

Sorry, the wife says "bullsh@t mak mak". cannot be done for 20K. Five days will run about 100,000 or so, but cost is offset by envelopes given by guests and the probable Cremation Insurance fund (usually about 10,000 in fund) kept by village for this purpose and usually contributed to by family. We put in 1 baht/day for wife's aunt (30 baht/month), max they will pay is 10,000. Also, as rice farmer in Issan he probably deals with Rice Bank and probably has insurance with them as well. Correct assumption that you will probably not be told about these insurances. Best of luck, the wife's grandmama passed away a year ago (at 102 years old) and the costs exceeded 150,000. It was well done, and worth the expense. Chok dee!

mario299 :jap:

OK so I'm a liar and my wife did pay the complete cost for her friend in Prasat of 20K.

[mario299]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

Sorry, the wife says "bullsh@t mak mak". cannot be done for 20K. Five days will run about 100,000 or so, but cost is offset by envelopes given by guests and the probable Cremation Insurance fund (usually about 10,000 in fund) kept by village for this purpose and usually contributed to by family. We put in 1 baht/day for wife's aunt (30 baht/month), max they will pay is 10,000. Also, as rice farmer in Issan he probably deals with Rice Bank and probably has insurance with them as well. Correct assumption that you will probably not be told about these insurances. Best of luck, the wife's grandmama passed away a year ago (at 102 years old) and the costs exceeded 150,000. It was well done, and worth the expense. Chok dee!

mario299 :jap:

Should have included that we were not required or asked to handle the cost, my wife took care of all the arranging tasks but the family (families) all chipped in.

mario299

[mario299]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

Sorry, the wife says "bullsh@t mak mak". cannot be done for 20K. Five days will run about 100,000 or so, but cost is offset by envelopes given by guests and the probable Cremation Insurance fund (usually about 10,000 in fund) kept by village for this purpose and usually contributed to by family. We put in 1 baht/day for wife's aunt (30 baht/month), max they will pay is 10,000. Also, as rice farmer in Issan he probably deals with Rice Bank and probably has insurance with them as well. Correct assumption that you will probably not be told about these insurances. Best of luck, the wife's grandmama passed away a year ago (at 102 years old) and the costs exceeded 150,000. It was well done, and worth the expense. Chok dee!

mario299 :jap:

OK so I'm a liar and my wife did pay the complete cost for her friend in Prasat of 20K.

Please, no offense meant, just trying to lend advice from experience. If your wife was able to do it for that...good on her! Other posts indicate more than 20K was needed for them.

mario299

[gotlost]

Just went threw this. With no farang present can be done for 20K

Sorry, the wife says "bullsh@t mak mak". cannot be done for 20K. Five days will run about 100,000 or so, but cost is offset by envelopes given by guests and the probable Cremation Insurance fund (usually about 10,000 in fund) kept by village for this purpose and usually contributed to by family. We put in 1 baht/day for wife's aunt (30 baht/month), max they will pay is 10,000. Also, as rice farmer in Issan he probably deals with Rice Bank and probably has insurance with them as well. Correct assumption that you will probably not be told about these insurances. Best of luck, the wife's grandmama passed away a year ago (at 102 years old) and the costs exceeded 150,000. It was well done, and worth the expense. Chok dee!

mario299 :jap:

OK so I'm a liar and my wife did pay the complete cost for her friend in Prasat of 20K.

Please, no offense meant, just trying to lend advice from experience. If your wife was able to do it for that...good on her! Other posts indicate more than 20K was needed for them.

mario299

That's because they smell FARANG. PU

[isanbirder]

Is it Thai/Lao or Thai/Khmer? This will make a difference.

My partner's grandmother (Thai/Khmer) died a year or more ago, and the very grand funeral cost about 250,000. Cunningly, however, my partner had arranged life insurance for her, so that covered most of it. I was not asked for anything. I had, as it happens, some years previously made it clear that I would pay money for hospital expenses but not for funerals, but I doubt whether this came into consideration when she passed away.

If you feel you're likely to be asked for a blank cheque, I would decide how much to give, say, "Here's 10,000 or whatever", and leave the family to pay the rest of it. If you have a farang brother-in-law, it might be wise to agree how much to give beforehand, so that they can't play one against the other.

[mstribling]

Bro, we buried my wife's aunt last week. I gave 15,000 up front, they made merit for the old gal for 3 days. Morning of day 4 we put her in the pickup and took her to the crematorium.

3 days later the cousin repaid me in full.

Most people will come and donate money to help out.

They will also have a casino set up and the family is the house.

It was a nice affair all around.

Sorry but this is East Thailand, not Issan so im sure it is quite different.

[tmwke]

I am in England at the moment,so have just got up with the wife (i mean woke up) Thank you all for the fabulous responses ,and very good information. This will help me and my brother in law to be able to make a fair decision with the family. Will repost again when everything is over,and thanks again for your trouble.

[BuckarooBanzai]

@ rgs2001uk

If you live in Khmer Issan than you are sadly missing the point. To mock the cultural practices of the Thai Khmer will not make you many friends.

[tassini]

From my experience you should only make a contribution! Look out for freeloaders / thieves as this is seen as an opportunity to make some cash!

A few years ago (well many actually, time flies) the lovely old grandmother of my wife passed away at around 90 years of age. She was a lovely old lady and had a very tough life, from being a comfort girl for the Japanese in WW2 to being fleeced of everything she owned by a member of her own family (daughter) and ended up living with my wifes family. My wife is 1 of 6 daughters and also has 2 brothers. The 4 eldest girls decided to each contribute 15,000 Baht for the costs of the funeral etc. 2 of the girls were still at school or uni. The 2 brothers contributed zero, however they were the ones collecting the envelopes during the 4 or 5 days of the funeral etc. After the event was over miraculously no money was returned to the sisters from the contributions even though it had been a very busy time with lots of attendees!

In the usual Thai way the girls just accepted this, groomed at a young age to be shafted by their brothers, even the MIL & FIL said nothing. However a few days later the eldest brother had the nerve / stupidity to demand some extra cash from the sisters to cover costs etc. When he came to visit us, I politely got my wife to ask him to leave before I did him some very serious damage!

This story is obviously not repeated in every case but where Thai families, money and Farangs are involved it is very common.

Tas

[transam]

From my experience you should only make a contribution! Look out for freeloaders / thieves as this is seen as an opportunity to make some cash!

A few years ago (well many actually, time flies) the lovely old grandmother of my wife passed away at around 90 years of age. She was a lovely old lady and had a very tough life, from being a comfort girl for the Japanese in WW2 to being fleeced of everything she owned by a member of her own family (daughter) and ended up living with my wifes family. My wife is 1 of 6 daughters and also has 2 brothers. The 4 eldest girls decided to each contribute 15,000 Baht for the costs of the funeral etc. 2 of the girls were still at school or uni. The 2 brothers contributed zero, however they were the ones collecting the envelopes during the 4 or 5 days of the funeral etc. After the event was over miraculously no money was returned to the sisters from the contributions even though it had been a very busy time with lots of attendees!

In the usual Thai way the girls just accepted this, groomed at a young age to be shafted by their brothers, even the MIL & FIL said nothing. However a few days later the eldest brother had the nerve / stupidity to demand some extra cash from the sisters to cover costs etc. When he came to visit us, I politely got my wife to ask him to leave before I did him some very serious damage!

This story is obviously not repeated in every case but where Thai families, money and Farangs are involved it is very common.

Tas

+1

My wife's mum is still alive and lives up country. Wife's eldest drunk card playing sister holds an insurance policy to deal with mums funeral. Last week she said to the wife when mum is dead l want the funeral in Ubon.

Christ she's not dead yet or likely to be in the near future. Why, the sister is thinking about a funeral up country would mean spending the insurance on a village funeral and the cost involved, so bring her down to Ubon where only a few people will attend so pocketing lots of insurance cash.

[sinbin]

We put in 1 baht/day for wife's aunt (30 baht/month), max they will pay is 10,000.

My mother in law pays 30 Baht per month and will get 20,000 upon death. She also has a number of other schemes, in other villages, she subscribes to. They should culminate in a self paid funeral.

[rgs2001uk]

@ rgs2001uk

If you live in Khmer Issan than you are sadly missing the point. To mock the cultural practices of the Thai Khmer will not make you many friends.

You are right, what point is it I am missing?

Some poor soul asks the cost of a funeral, I gave examples of the last two I attended.

I am well aware of the costs of some of these funerals, but not all are the same cost.

How someone chooses to spend their money is of no concern to me.

Please explain why I am mocking the cultural prcatices of the Thai Khmer, strange the last two funerals I attended were Thai Khmer and as stated the costs were 20 and 50k baht.

As for making friends, I am not here to make friends or influence people, their country, culture and values not mine.

It is however refreshing to occasionally come across some of the locals who see no need to engage in nothing more than a face gaining exercise.

As I mentioned on another thread, honest, hard working decent people who will organise a dignified send off without going overboard, not squandering money that could be better used to provide education for children rather than a piss up to try and gain status.

The same people who dont have off spring "working in the bank in Pattaya" or spinning sick buffalo stories or sponging of their in laws, yes these decent people are out there and they have my respect, as for the others, well no comment.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Sorry rgs2001uk, didn't mean to be argumentative. I just feel that a Thai Khmer family feels they lose face if they do not follow the standard village practices involving a conventional funeral in order to, in the villagers mind, properly honor the deceased. Maybe the practices differ in your village but parades, music, sending all the attendees home with pork and rice and the rest of it is common practice in mine. The point is - does a Thai family loose face if they throw a cheap funeral - and the only ones that can answer that are the Thais. I personally feel the money could be spent much more wisely than it usually is. But it is not my call. Your comments "there were no marching bands, luk tung singers, coyote dancers, pigs on spits, free flow alcohol or gambling in sight" "no free loading loafers bums and dead beats present" seemed abit of an abusive way to describe a typical funeral. Sorry if I got it wrong - now I'll get back to my coyote dancers and booze, cheers!

[Monkey Fish]

We've had two funerals the last couple years. I'm not sure how much the funerals cost, but the merit-making events which took place within a year of the funerals cost about 300K each. Big, three-day events with nonstop food and drink. Monks. Loudspeakers. Big stage. Lot's of people coming and going for a few days. [Lowlight of the most recent one: the amateurish slaughter (read "screaming torture and slow death") of three pigs.]

I put in 50K. The family found the rest. This is a very significant amount money to them. I think guests chipped in between 50K and 100K.

Regarding prestige, it's not a black and white issue. I'm sure some of the family members wanted a big show for superficial reasons, but I would say most just wanted to do things right for somebody they loved.

[tassini]

@ rgs2001uk

If you live in Khmer Issan than you are sadly missing the point. To mock the cultural practices of the Thai Khmer will not make you many friends.

You are right, what point is it I am missing?

Some poor soul asks the cost of a funeral, I gave examples of the last two I attended.

I am well aware of the costs of some of these funerals, but not all are the same cost.

How someone chooses to spend their money is of no concern to me.

Please explain why I am mocking the cultural prcatices of the Thai Khmer, strange the last two funerals I attended were Thai Khmer and as stated the costs were 20 and 50k baht.

As for making friends, I am not here to make friends or influence people, their country, culture and values not mine.

It is however refreshing to occasionally come across some of the locals who see no need to engage in nothing more than a face gaining exercise.

As I mentioned on another thread, honest, hard working decent people who will organise a dignified send off without going overboard, not squandering money that could be better used to provide education for children rather than a piss up to try and gain status.

The same people who dont have off spring "working in the bank in Pattaya" or spinning sick buffalo stories or sponging of their in laws, yes these decent people are out there and they have my respect, as for the others, well no comment.

Oh yes the great Thai practice of saving face (showing off I call it) and all it means. A few years back a cousin of my wife spent around 100k Baht (as it turns out his last 100) for the 100 day mourning event following the death of his mother. Within a week he was pleading poverty and trying to borrow money to feed his 3 kids...............................You work it out!

Tas

[tmwke]

@ rgs2001uk

If you live in Khmer Issan than you are sadly missing the point. To mock the cultural practices of the Thai Khmer will not make you many friends.

You are right, what point is it I am missing?

Some poor soul asks the cost of a funeral, I gave examples of the last two I attended.

I am well aware of the costs of some of these funerals, but not all are the same cost.

How someone chooses to spend their money is of no concern to me.

Please explain why I am mocking the cultural prcatices of the Thai Khmer, strange the last two funerals I attended were Thai Khmer and as stated the costs were 20 and 50k baht.

As for making friends, I am not here to make friends or influence people, their country, culture and values not mine.

It is however refreshing to occasionally come across some of the locals who see no need to engage in nothing more than a face gaining exercise.

As I mentioned on another thread, honest, hard working decent people who will organise a dignified send off without going overboard, not squandering money that could be better used to provide education for children rather than a piss up to try and gain status.

The same people who dont have off spring "working in the bank in Pattaya" or spinning sick buffalo stories or sponging of their in laws, yes these decent people are out there and they have my respect, as for the others, well no comment.

Thanks again to everybody. I was not after arguments just info. Yes i am jorndiced,but i have a wonderful Thai wife who is great for me (Thai mindset and all) Thanks TMWKE

[MJP]

Sorry rgs2001uk, didn't mean to be argumentative. I just feel that a Thai Khmer family feels they lose face if they do not follow the standard village practices involving a conventional funeral in order to, in the villagers mind, properly honor the deceased. Maybe the practices differ in your village but parades, music, sending all the attendees home with pork and rice and the rest of it is common practice in mine. The point is - does a Thai family loose face if they throw a cheap funeral - and the only ones that can answer that are the Thais. I personally feel the money could be spent much more wisely than it usually is. But it is not my call. Your comments "there were no marching bands, luk tung singers, coyote dancers, pigs on spits, free flow alcohol or gambling in sight" "no free loading loafers bums and dead beats present" seemed abit of an abusive way to describe a typical funeral. Sorry if I got it wrong - now I'll get back to my coyote dancers and booze, cheers!

Not abusive, rather very true in many/most instances up here. Although, I'm still amazed at the amount of money spent on the dead here, rather than the living. I remember grandfathers funeral in the UK, attended by four people and a dog, all done - 20 minutes.

[prakhonchai nick]

I chipped in for my Mother in Laws funeral only as regards the charges levied by the Wat. I am totally against a 3/4/5day piss up with never ending drink and food (more than MIL would have seen in her lifetime), and I therefore not only refused to contribute towards this, but took no part in the "festivities".

I also voiced my disgust at the all night gambling, within spitting distance of the coffin. My wife agreed but was shouted down by the rest of the family.

[cardholder]

I agree that the relative spends are often totally disproportionate to the lifestyle of the deceased when they were alive.

To spend money on such events when there is barely enough income/capital to buy normal foods is nothing short of obscene.

[transam]

I chipped in for my Mother in Laws funeral only as regards the charges levied by the Wat. I am totally against a 3/4/5day piss up with never ending drink and food (more than MIL would have seen in her lifetime), and I therefore not only refused to contribute towards this, but took no part in the "festivities".

I also voiced my disgust at the all night gambling, within spitting distance of the coffin. My wife agreed but was shouted down by the rest of the family.

The gambling seems to be the norm for those there for the all night vigil.

Recently my farang chum passed on, the booze up and card playing started. Thing was, nobody new who the card set up guy was. Seems he goes to the funerals to relieve the drunk poor of their cash.

Most of the revellers went home with bags of food and never gave the wee envelope with some baht to the widow.

Edited February 9, 2011 by transam