Red Shirts Promise Rally Of 'Unprecedented Numbers'

[rubl]

Acting UDD Chairperson Thida Thavornsret added that the UDD would remain at the Democracy Monument until late Sunday, similar to what they did last time.

Starting Saturday 19th, ending late Sunday 20th. Because this is real party time I can imagine 'unprecedented numbers'. I assume free food, toilet units, BMA personel to clean up after? Lots of red-shirts of any faction in Bangkok who like this weekend fun. Lets hope no rain Sunday morning like last week.

[yellow1red1]

I personally get irritated every time they bring up Yellows (who I have no respect for) in justifying what they do wrong or what they expect. It is like a murderer in the US telling the jury they should go free because OJ was aquitted. But more importantly their comparisons are never the same or they have to go back under a different administration and what happened then as a way to justify their wanting things to continue (at least for them) in a non-lawful or just manner.

However I do think these folks should be allowed very high bail (if no obvious flight risks) at this point but it should be revoked the moment they take part in a rally (as has already happened) and then NEVER be reinstated. In believing that should be allowed bail I have to set aside the overwhelming feeling to deny them any leniency because of what their red comrades continue to do in Bangkok multiple times a month.

I would not, however, and in fact I would say your proposal is over-generous - the PAD's airport case was criminal trespassing on a mass scale (wrong, huge damages but, at the end of the day, just a case of trespassing) and so the terrorism charges cannot be upheld. I do hope they don't get off and actually get convicted of the trespassing though. I also hope the pockets of non-peaceful protesters (e.g. the PAD guard seen on TV with a pistol) get charged accordingly - although, if the weapon is legal, the shooter could easily claim to be acting in self defence (especially if the guy in question had a carry-license as many PAD and UDD guards do).

However, if Thailand had an itch to be part of the international community, where the PAD actions are considered terrorism, they would aim higher than misdeameor trespassing. Just think about it for 1/2 a sec! How far would a group get in America or Europe who decided to commander Intl airports???

Would they get that far? Would they be walking the streets? Would they be Cabinet Ministers? Would they be suing the prosecutors, like Chamlong is? me not theenk so senor!

ONLY IN THAILAND!

Following this approach, the international community has adopted the following sectoral counter-terrorism conventions, open to the ratification of all states:

• The 1970 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft
• The 1971 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Civil Aviation
• The 1988 Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts of Violence at Airports Serving International Civil Aviation

Here is a pretty good description of the daily activities of the red and yellow leaders.

Part 1Part one of the act creates a series of new criminal offences intended to assist the police in tackling terrorism. They are:

• Encouragement of terrorism (section 1): Prohibits the publishing of "a statement that is likely to be understood by some or all of the members of the public to whom it is published as a direct or indirect encouragement or other inducement to them to the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism or Convention offences." Indirect encouragement statements include every statement which glorifies the commission or preparation (whether in the past, in the future or generally) of such acts or offences; and is a statement from which those members of the public could reasonably be expected to infer that what is being glorified is being glorified as conduct that should be emulated by them in existing circumstances.".^[2] The maximum penalty is seven years' imprisonment.
• Disseminating terrorist publications (Section 2): Prohibits the dissemination of a publication which is either (a) likely to be understood as directly or indirectly encouraging terrorism, or ( includes information which is likely to be understood as being useful in the commission or preparation of an act of terrorism. The maximum penalty is seven years' imprisonment.
• Preparation of terrorist acts (Section 5): Prohibits anyone from engaging in any conduct in preparation for an intended act of terrorism. The maximum penalty is life imprisonment.
• Training for terrorism (Section 6): Prohibits anyone from training others in terrorist activities, or from receiving training. The maximum penalty is 10 years' imprisonment.
• Attendance at a place used for terrorist training (Section 8): Prohibits anyone from being at a place where training is going on (whether in the United Kingdom or abroad), provided the person knew or reasonably believed that it was happening. The maximum penalty is 10 years' imprisonment.

,if not terrorists, how about horrorists, as in the nightmare which is around the next corner.Spring of 2010 is going to seem like a picnic when your 'trespassers' are done.

Edited February 17, 2011 by yellow1red1

[gemini81]

Something just seems very wrong with the fact these lunatics keep using reasons to hold these rallies that only relate to the consequences of the rally (rioting) last year.

Even though they turned down early elections last year (that would have already happened) and walked away with nothing but causing pain for themselves and all the people of Thailand they continue to stage these events where they continue to get bolder and provoke police as they did last year. Do they really expect to see a different result?

They are not using these rallies to get a message out .. they are using them to intimidate and inconvenience the country to get their way.

Why are they not forced to pay for the added police presence as well as compensating those people and businesses that are effected by these constant gatherings? Ok, let them do it once but to do this nonsense every other week (or more) is excessive.

I personally predict that they are going to get very bold this time around and may actually once again try to spur a revolution or cripple the government. Somebody should tell them before hand this only works in a country where the people want one. One can only imagine how well off these so called poor farmers would be if they used the resources they continue to waste on these gatherings to help advance their own lives.

you're correct, the weather is heating up, and so is the red camp. they say warm weather brings out the bugs. The system tolerates his poison tongue, when really additional charges should be brought against his threats and statements. (I guess after many bluffs, everyone just perceives it as a joke!) But indeed the red camp'll build up for another swing in the ring in April. Best plan your holiday elsewhere so those who're not involved don't get caught in the uproar.

[pogal]

Thailand: HUB of "unprecedented numbers"

[pogal]

Wow, is it the School Holidays already?

[Pi Sek]

However, if Thailand had an itch to be part of the international community, where the PAD actions are considered terrorism, they would aim higher than misdeameor trespassing. Just think about it for 1/2 a sec! How far would a group get in America or Europe who decided to commander Intl airports???

Would they get that far? Would they be walking the streets? Would they be Cabinet Ministers? Would they be suing the prosecutors, like Chamlong is? me not theenk so senor!

ONLY IN THAILAND!

Following this approach, the international community has adopted the following sectoral counter-terrorism conventions, open to the ratification of all states:

• The 1970 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft
• The 1971 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Civil Aviation
• The 1988 Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts of Violence at Airports Serving International Civil Aviation

Here is a pretty good description of the daily activities of the red and yellow leaders.

Part 1Part one of the act creates a series of new criminal offences intended to assist the police in tackling terrorism. They are:

• Encouragement of terrorism (section 1): Prohibits the publishing of "a statement that is likely to be understood by some or all of the members of the public to whom it is published as a direct or indirect encouragement or other inducement to them to the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism or Convention offences." Indirect encouragement statements include every statement which glorifies the commission or preparation (whether in the past, in the future or generally) of such acts or offences; and is a statement from which those members of the public could reasonably be expected to infer that what is being glorified is being glorified as conduct that should be emulated by them in existing circumstances.".^[2] The maximum penalty is seven years' imprisonment.
• Disseminating terrorist publications (Section 2): Prohibits the dissemination of a publication which is either (a) likely to be understood as directly or indirectly encouraging terrorism, or ( includes information which is likely to be understood as being useful in the commission or preparation of an act of terrorism. The maximum penalty is seven years' imprisonment.
• Preparation of terrorist acts (Section 5): Prohibits anyone from engaging in any conduct in preparation for an intended act of terrorism. The maximum penalty is life imprisonment.
• Training for terrorism (Section 6): Prohibits anyone from training others in terrorist activities, or from receiving training. The maximum penalty is 10 years' imprisonment.
• Attendance at a place used for terrorist training (Section 8): Prohibits anyone from being at a place where training is going on (whether in the United Kingdom or abroad), provided the person knew or reasonably believed that it was happening. The maximum penalty is 10 years' imprisonment.

,if not terrorists, how about horrorists, as in the nightmare which is around the next corner.Spring of 2010 is going to seem like a picnic when your 'trespassers' are done.

I agree with you in ways... commandeering aircraft was something that PAD guards did, but the problem is that the authorisation of this is always denied by the leaders. It was a terrorist action, but who do you prosecute?

Very similar to the Red Shirts - "it was a fake red" - except for the instances of mass arson and insurrection, which were called for by the Red leaders as soon as "one drop of blood" was spilt.

On the other hand, the airport did not have to close. The AoT commission could have easily called for support from the police or armed forces, and gone hardball in the media if the army refused to move against the PAD. 200,000 tourists were trapped and front page news everywhere for a week, not just some expats in a burning condo building in a burning city - AoT could have really done the PAD over if they weren't so jelly-spined.

Imagine it...

CNN: You have authorised a crackdown on an organisation whom you claim are terrorist because they are trying to shut down Thailand's main airport, one of the SE Asia region's main hub airports.

Somchai Wongsawat: Yes, that's right. They want the airport to shut by its own doing, but there are hundreds of thousands of people having the human right of free travel abused, so the Airports of Thailand have not accepted their demands and told them to leave immediately. They have not left. So far though, the army have not done anything.

CNN: Why did the army not move in when asked to reclaim ?

Somchai Wongsawat: I have no idea - they did not do what their government told them and so I have had to sack the top army chiefs and replace them.

Two weeks later:

CNN: So, why did you have another coup?

Army boss: Because the government believed that the army should answer to them.

CNN: Pardon?

If that had happened, I might be a Red Shirt now. Of course, not one of those "Bring back Thaksin" UDD ones though.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Pi Sek

[whybother]

UDD confirms to rally on 19 Feb

The spokesperson said the rally schedule adjustments were made for the sake of national order, as well to ensure that business entrepreneurs at Ratchaprasong would be least affected.

... and because they were having trouble getting enough people and paper together to fold and release 1,000,000 paper cranes.

[Nisa]

UDD confirms to rally on 19 Feb

The spokesperson said the rally schedule adjustments were made for the sake of national order, as well to ensure that business entrepreneurs at Ratchaprasong would be least affected.

... and because they were having trouble getting enough people and paper together to fold and release 1,000,000 paper cranes.

But in reality there has to be a lot of logistics being put into having a million paper cranes arrive in BKK. We all can agree this event will likely attract at most 30k people. This means each person has to be responsible for 33.3 cranes. Unless Thailand considers making paper cranes part of their culture I have to assume the vast majority of people don't know how to make them. Then you have the whole thing of bringing and distributing them in BKK and not having them get destroyed on the way.

Assuming there is no mechanical process to makes these birds and a person can average making 1 crane every 2 minutes (30 an hour) it would take a single person 33,333 hours to make a million. So, if they had 1,000 people making them then it would take 33.5 hours to complete. In other words 1,000 people who have a week to waste on this BS. Combine this with all the time they spend in BKK it is no wonder they are not doing better .. they never are at work or out in the fields.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[whybother]

But in reality there has to be a lot of logistics being put into having a million paper cranes arrive in BKK. We all can agree this event will likely attract at most 30k people. This means each person has to be responsible for 33.3 cranes. Unless Thailand considers making paper cranes part of their culture I have to assume the vast majority of people don't know how to make them. Then you have the whole thing of bringing and distributing them in BKK and not having them get destroyed on the way.

Assuming there is no mechanical process to makes these birds and a person can average making 1 crane every 2 minutes (30 an hour) it would take a single person 33,333 hours to make a million. So, if they had 1,000 people making them then it would take 33.5 hours to complete. In other words 1,000 people who have a week to waste on this BS. Combine this with all the time they spend in BKK it is no wonder they are not doing better .. they never are at work or out in the fields.

"We all can agree this event will likely attract at most 30k people."

UNPRECEDENTED

[Buchholz]

Wasn't the original message that 1 million would turn up to demonstrate? And now it is unprecedented numbers which I think is supposed to interpret as more than 100,000. I look forward to egg on face on Monday morning.

The Red Shirts... the "Hub"-sters of chronically backing down from impossible unreachable implausible goals...

The other paper is reporting that police are expecting 30,000 Red Shirts on the 19th.

"unprecedented numbers", indeed...

The only thing they've come close to ever reaching a million at...

is the number of their BS pronouncements.

.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Buchholz

[Nisa]

Is it even possible to get 1 million people into that area? The population of BKK is about 10 million (not including tourists) and during the day most sidewalks are full even though most resident stay home or are in buildings working as well as spread out through out this huge city. I cannot imagine 10 percent of the population of BKK getting together in the streets of Ratchaprasong. Not to mention even if they were to arrive 10 to a vehicle this would still be 100,000 extra vehicles added to the area's already problematic parking.

Am I wrong to think that it would be near impossible to have a rally of a million people just given the logistics of the location? This would be 10 times more than what I believe have been the most inflated figures of number of people in the streets last year when it seemed it took hours for the parade of them to pass my intersection when they first came to town.

[UberBraun]

This is starting to smell like the run-up to another really bad Songkran.

When will the Thai government grow the cahonies to tackel these fools head on, and early, before they get too brazen? Did they learn NOTHING last year?

And anyone who thinks that Jatuporn would ever really renounce his parlamentry immunity, well, they must be seriously delusional and probably living on another planet :-) It just ain't gonna happen... EVER. Jatuporn is a big mounth AND a coward.

Edited February 17, 2011 by UberBraun

[mistakurtz]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

[whybother]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

You'll have to show me which textbook has class struggles led by a billionaire.

[heybruce]

Something just seems very wrong with the fact these lunatics keep using reasons to hold these rallies that only relate to the consequences of the rally (rioting) last year.

Even though they turned down early elections last year (that would have already happened) and walked away with nothing but causing pain for themselves and all the people of Thailand they continue to stage these events where they continue to get bolder and provoke police as they did last year. Do they really expect to see a different result?

They are not using these rallies to get a message out .. they are using them to intimidate and inconvenience the country to get their way.

Why are they not forced to pay for the added police presence as well as compensating those people and businesses that are effected by these constant gatherings? Ok, let them do it once but to do this nonsense every other week (or more) is excessive.

I personally predict that they are going to get very bold this time around and may actually once again try to spur a revolution or cripple the government. Somebody should tell them before hand this only works in a country where the people want one. One can only imagine how well off these so called poor farmers would be if they used the resources they continue to waste on these gatherings to help advance their own lives.

Good points, I'm in 100% agreement with you.

Do you also agree the Yellowshirts should be forced to pay for the economic damage they did to the country when they shut down the airport in late 2009?

[Pi Sek]

Do you also agree the Yellowshirts should be forced to pay for the economic damage they did to the country when they shut down the airport in late 2009?

Keep up, heybruce.

I think that someone should pay - the Thai people have paid already - but, given the Yellow Shirts didn't "shut down the airport" (Airports of Thailand did) in 2008 (not 2009), it's kinda hard to bing charges against anyone. Unidentified PAD guards allegedly took over some planes, but the PAD leaders say they don't know anything about this. They might well be lieing, but how can one prove them wrong? Thai Law (and US and UK Law) states that it is the prosecution's job to prove the defendant guilty. Hard to do without catching them on video camera.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Pi Sek

[Pi Sek]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

You'll have to show me which textbook has class struggles led by a billionaire.

Just to add to that, is this an inconvenience?

The above picture is the result of an M79 attack. The army wasn't using M79s.

[mistakurtz]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

You'll have to show me which textbook has class struggles led by a billionaire.

Talk to a rice farmer.

[mistakurtz]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

You'll have to show me which textbook has class struggles led by a billionaire.

Just to add to that, is this an inconvenience?

The above picture is the result of an M79 attack. The army wasn't using M79s.

You're right. They were using sniper rifles. We can argue all day about who is the baddest. But it's about the rich and the poor.

[Pi Sek]

No it's not.

[jayboy]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

You'll have to show me which textbook has class struggles led by a billionaire.

Don't know about billionaire, don't know Thaksin will turn out to be a leader (rather than a catalyst) and don't actually accept the old fashioned class struggle concept (though interestingly among non-communist intellectuals Marx and his dialectical materialism tools are receiving renewed interest.May be connected with capitalism's recent crisis).

What I do know and there are countless examples, revolutionary leaders have often had aristocratic or upper class backgrounds.Chou Enlai is one recent example but there are many others through history.

[Buchholz]

Red-shirt Members Demand Justice for Jailed Leaders

Red-shirt supporters from various provinces are gathering to submit a letter demanding fair treatment for jailed red-shirt leaders.

Earlier today in front of the Sakon Nakhon Court, red-shirt elements led by Sakrapee Phromchart submitted a letter to the Sakhon Nakhon Court Committee. Court Director Ampai Charoensri received the letter.

The letter highlighted personal opinions of the detained red-shirt leaders demanding justice and freedom by drawing up a comparison of their trial to that of the rival People's Alliance for Democracy, or the yellow-shirt group. The jailed red-shirt leaders said that they faced similar charges, but the yellow-shirt leaders were granted bail.

Hence, the detained leaders are asking for proper proceedings in order to receive fair treatment.

Red-shirt supporters in Petchaburi and neighboring provinces have also gathered to submit a letter with demands for justice and fair treatment of the detained red-shirt leaders to the Petchburi Court as their bail requests have been rejected.

Pethcburi red-shirt leader Kraisri Pajonsil and other core leaders are continuing to demand justice for the detained red-shirt members who have not been granted bail across the country and will continue to travel to provincial courts nationwide until their demand is addressed.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-17

[Nisa]

Something just seems very wrong with the fact these lunatics keep using reasons to hold these rallies that only relate to the consequences of the rally (rioting) last year.

Even though they turned down early elections last year (that would have already happened) and walked away with nothing but causing pain for themselves and all the people of Thailand they continue to stage these events where they continue to get bolder and provoke police as they did last year. Do they really expect to see a different result?

They are not using these rallies to get a message out .. they are using them to intimidate and inconvenience the country to get their way.

Why are they not forced to pay for the added police presence as well as compensating those people and businesses that are effected by these constant gatherings? Ok, let them do it once but to do this nonsense every other week (or more) is excessive.

I personally predict that they are going to get very bold this time around and may actually once again try to spur a revolution or cripple the government. Somebody should tell them before hand this only works in a country where the people want one. One can only imagine how well off these so called poor farmers would be if they used the resources they continue to waste on these gatherings to help advance their own lives.

Good points, I'm in 100% agreement with you.

Do you also agree the Yellowshirts should be forced to pay for the economic damage they did to the country when they shut down the airport in late 2009?

No, I don't believe in retroactively doing anything like this. Nor do I believe that using anything the yellows did back then should be justification or excuses to do things now. We are not 5-years old. If people didn't like what happened with the Yellows then it is simply retarded to use what they did or what happened to them as justification or to excuse behavior now. If people want to protest now about what the yellows did or how they are currently treated then do so but don't demand the same treatment and demand to be allowed the same actions (or worse) if you condone such treatment or actions.

If the Yellows were doing what the Reds are doing now my comments would not have been different and if you asked me what should have been done with the Yellows back then .. I would answer that authorities should have moved in and used any force needed to remove them and then should have been prosecuted harshly. However, they sort of won the war and winners get to write history as is the way it has been all around the globe since the begging of time ... one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[Nisa]

The letter highlighted personal opinions of the detained red-shirt leaders demanding justice and freedom by drawing up a comparison of their trial to that of the rival People's Alliance for Democracy, or the yellow-shirt group. The jailed red-shirt leaders said that they faced similar charges, but the yellow-shirt leaders were granted bail.

Anybody know the actual charges? I thought the Reds were facing terrorism charges. Are any of the yellows being accused of complicity of killing people?

The other consideration is public safety. Although things are finally calming down a bit Songkran is right around the corner and nothing, at least I have heard, would indicate these Reds are going to let elections be held either on schedule or early under government decree. I personally might give some of them a chance at bail but would revoke it for good the moment they took part in any kind of political gathering even if by phone.

[whybother]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

You'll have to show me which textbook has class struggles led by a billionaire.

Talk to a rice farmer.

I could talk to a lot of poor people who have it tough.

But that's not what the protests are about. They are led by rich people to get money for rich people, by using poor people as their pawns.

[whybother]

It's great that opinionated farang have a place (TV) where they can rant about the "inconveniences" that are part of a textbook class struggle. The Reds can be denigrated for fighting for their fair of share, and making it difficult to shop.

You'll have to show me which textbook has class struggles led by a billionaire.

Don't know about billionaire, don't know Thaksin will turn out to be a leader (rather than a catalyst) and don't actually accept the old fashioned class struggle concept (though interestingly among non-communist intellectuals Marx and his dialectical materialism tools are receiving renewed interest.May be connected with capitalism's recent crisis).

What I do know and there are countless examples, revolutionary leaders have often had aristocratic or upper class backgrounds.Chou Enlai is one recent example but there are many others through history.

Many red shirts want Thaksin back as leader. Thaksin encourages the protesters to overthrow the government so he can come back as leader. Many of the red shirt leaders refer to Thaksin, and organise for Thaksin to call in to their protests. The PTP, who the red shirts generally support, have said that if they win the election that they will bring back Thaksin. The PTP don't do anything without Thaksin's approval.

This isn't a class struggle, except for the fact that the person the red shirts are fighting for is struggling to find some class.

[Buchholz]

^ Boss Man controls all aspects:

On Tuesday, the Pheu Thai could not agree on the date for submitting the censure motion.

Mingkwan said he would have to wait for a green light from Thaksin before submitting the motion.

"I don't want to comment this," Chalerm said when asked to comment on Mingkwan's statement that he would have to wait for Thaksin's green light.

-- The Nation 2011-02-16

Edited February 17, 2011 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

This isn't a class struggle, except for the fact that the person the red shirts are fighting for is struggling to find some class.

I'm sure that passes for wit in the less demanding Pattaya salons.

[Pi Sek]

C'mon jayboy it wasn't bad.

[whybother]

C'mon jayboy it wasn't bad.

:jap: