Violent clashes break out in German neo-Nazi rally

[News_Editor]

Violent clashes break out in German neo-Nazi rally

2011-02-20 03:19:04 GMT+7 (ICT)

DRESDEN (BNO NEWS) -- Clashes broke out in the German city of Dresden after thousands protested an authorized neo-Nazi rally, DPA news agency reported.

Officers used truncheons, tear gas and water cannons to keep anti-fascist protesters away from an area reserved for about 600 right-wing extremists who had been granted permission to gather in the eastern city. Leftist demonstrators threw paving stones, bottles and fireworks at the officers, damaging cars and breaking windows in an office building.

"The mood among the right-wing extremists is extremely aggressive and heated, because they can't march due to the blockades," Interior Ministry spokesman Frank Wend said.

Neo-Nazi groups then decided to move the rally to the city of Leipzig, where police waited for their arrival, according to the news agency.

Despite objections by city authorities, a Dresden court on Friday allowed the neo-Nazi rally, which commemorated the infamous 1945 allied bombing of Dresden. The city had expected up to 4,000 right-wing extremists and 20,000 opposing demonstrators.

Last weekend, around 17,000 residents of Dresden prevented 1,300 neo-Nazis from marching near the city centre

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2011-02-20

[ELCata]

These 'leftist', temporarily (hopefully) communist & no doubt post-modernist types (usually students) delude themselves into 'unlearning' history & redefining simple logic.

It doesn't matter whether you're left or right, upside down or inside out, protesting against the right to protest & speech whose only purpose is to deny others freedom of speech makes a mockery of the original freedoms; maybe it's all the 'pol' pot that they imbibe.

The simple fact that this behaviour is self defeating also seems to escape them.

Edited February 20, 2011 by ELCata

[JemJem]

Of course, the Neo-Nazis will be protested against. It is an ideology based on extreme nationalism and hatred. What happened to Jews before and during the second World War is still very much in the minds of people.

Way to go, anti-fascists !

By the way, I am against not just the German fascists ; I am against ALL fascists.

Edited February 20, 2011 by JemJem

[ELCata]

Of course, the Neo-Nazis will be protested against. It is an ideology based on extreme nationalism and hatred. What happened to Jews before and during the second World War is still very much in the minds of people.

Way to go, anti-fascists !

By the way, I am against not just the German fascists ; I am against ALL fascists.

Leaving aside the word 'fascist' for the moment, I agree that all ideologies should be protested against. My point was that protestation with the sole purpose of denying other peoples right to (peaceful) protest defies all reason & dare I say it logic. Anyone who thinks that way is themselves an ideologue. That is, possibly due to the arrogance of youth, that they think they are 100% right & can therefore deny other's rights purely because their views are diametrically opposed to theirs & constitute a special case.

[notime]

"My point was that protestation with the sole purpose of denying other peoples right to (peaceful) protest defies all reason & dare I say it logic"

Agree! But how do you know ElCata that that was the "sole purpose" of the anti-neo-nazis protest? Couldn't be that they are protesting against certain view-points not just against freedom of speech? And why this has to be ill-logical or not to give them the right to do that if you believe in freedom of speech yourself?

Hitler and his bullies gained power under more or less democratic system existing in pre-1936 Germany. That is one of the history lessons that should never ever be forgotten or understated. Democracy is not a perfect system that can be just left alone to run itself in a naive belief that everything will be all right. It is an idea that requires constant struggle and efforts to make it work and to protect it from various power hungry individuals and movements that want to destroy it. Bravo concerned people of Dresden! You are in-the-know to show those thugs that most in the society don't share their views.

Edited February 20, 2011 by notime

[ELCata]

"My point was that protestation with the sole purpose of denying other peoples right to (peaceful) protest defies all reason & dare I say it logic"

Agree! But how do you know ElCata that that was the "sole purpose" of the anti-neo-nazis protest? Couldn't be that they are protesting against certain view-points not just against freedom of speech? And why this has to be ill-logical or not to give them the right to do that if you believe in freedom of speech yourself?

I'll answer everything up until the 'Hitler' card. Once it's played on an internet forum, the discussion is usually beyond repair.

Here is the first sentence from the news report.

DRESDEN (BNO NEWS) -- Clashes broke out in the German city of Dresden after thousands protested an authorized neo-Nazi rally, DPA news agency reported.

Thousands of people just happened to turn up at the exact time & place of a 'neo-nazi' rally, to protest their 'anti neo-nazi' sentiments?

The 'anti' protesters have the same freedom to organise their own marches / protests etc as the 'neo' protesters. However, they chose to do so in order to infringe upon the rights of other people's right to protest; for that sole reason!

Let me give you another example. When I was a student at Manchester University many years ago, the BNP held a meeting in a local pub. Several 'left wing' student organisations surrounded the pub & started chanting loudly, in order to drown out the speaker inside. They succeeded in their aim as the police were called & the meeting was disbanded. This is an example of a protest, or freedom of speech, which was purely designed to oppress other people's freedom of speech. The students were well within their rights to protest about the BNP outside their HQ or any affiliated building for example.

I don't want this to descend into a left / right political argument, but surely you can see where the line has to be drawn?

[JemJem]

ELCata, so, you think that even hateful speech/expressions should be allowed ?!

Islamist groups and Neo-Nazi groups (and also those similar in ideology to the Neo-Nazis ; in Russia, this has been a growing problem, especially since about 10 years ago) preach lots of hatred. It is nice to know that there are many people who speak out/act out against such groups.

[ELCata]

ELCata, so, you think that even hateful speech/expressions should be allowed ?!

Irrelevance not quoted.

Yes. There are laws in place which prohibit incitement to murder etc & I believe in Germany that it is a crime to publicly deny the holocaust. This was an authorised rally.

[WarpSpeed]

ELCata, so, you think that even hateful speech/expressions should be allowed ?!

Islamist groups and Neo-Nazi groups (and also those similar in ideology to the Neo-Nazis ; in Russia, this has been a growing problem, especially since about 10 years ago) preach lots of hatred. It is nice to know that there are many people who speak out/act out against such groups.

Edited February 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Jingthing]

A reasonable argument could be made that Germany is one country in particular where the Nazi Party might be made illegal.

[notime]

A reasonable argument could be made that Germany is one country in particular where the Nazi Party might be made illegal.

Absolutely. It IS actually illegal. But I would twist this argument even further. If a vary civilized country like Germany had fallen victim and made its citizen into stupid puppets following Nazi ideology of hate amplified by use of carefully controlled mass media pumping brain washing propaganda blend together with stick and carrot approach .. this can happen almost everywhere else. It is quite scary but I really don't think that Germans have something unique in their genes that made that possible. And there is plenty proof that other cultures are susceptible. There was Stalin's communism, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Mao and are still functioning systems in countries like Myanmar and North Korea, perhaps the most extreme of them all. It is therefor that I believe democracy should have some organic "protective mechanisms" from forces trying to destroy it. I hope these don't have to limit free speech. But making illegal parties that don't subscribe to democratic and humanistic principles could be part of that.

[ParadiseLost]

Last weekend, around 17,000 residents of Dresden prevented 1,300 neo-Nazis from marching near the city centre

If the police stay out of it the natural order of things will solve the problem...

But seriously, I believe everyone has the right to voice his/her opinion, even if it is found distasteful by the majority. Similar to drug enforcement, by banning activities you merely drive them underground and by doing so ignore the problem until it is out of control.

So let the morons march, and let the 'people' sort them out... It won't be long before their numbers dwindle.

And no, I am not advocating murder, but a good thrashing will swiftly lower the appeal of dressing up like a freak and antagonising others.