What Is It About Thai`s?

[dagling]

I have for years been running a car here in Thailand, without mishap. For approx. 3 years ago I bought my first big motorcycle down here, first a Yamaha Drag Star 400 and then went up to the Yamaha Road Star 1600.

But in recent times, it really dawned on me that to ride a motorcycle here in Thailand, is more like playing Russian Roulette.

NEVER have I seen such lack of respect for one on a motorcycle than here in Thailand (and I've run in some countries).

They are totally blocked in order to understand the consequences of it to be 50cm from the rear end of your 90 km / h where it tries to force his way past you.

Then we have them "blind drivers", who obviously did not manage to see farther than 50 meters. Or those who think it is okay to take and pass a winding road, without being able to see what's around it?

Cars / motorcycles / tractors etc. that will be on a main road, then you can be sure that they are running into the road 20 meters before you, where you come running at 90 km / h.

The use of mirrors or turn signals are also an unknown phenomenon here in the Land of Smiles.

Mirrors are for makeup or squeeze pimples, flashing lights like them to use them when going straight forward, well, when referring to the hazard lights.

I have now really started to get that "nasty feeling" when I ride a motorcycle, they joy starts to fade away.

It's a shame, Thailand is a fantastic country to ride a motorcycle in, had it not been for all the idiots who drive around without a license and it's total lack of respect and understanding of speed and distance evaluation.

Sorry Thai`s, you will never change

Edited February 23, 2011 by dagling

[Morien]

While not the case for 100% of Thai drivers, there are enough idiot drivers (of all races really, lots of idiot foreigners come and think anything goes) to understand your frustration. Could have something to do with the prevalent thought that "what should happen will happen", so if you were meant to get hit by an oncoming car when going around a blind corner, then you will be. Also the bigger vehicle tends to have right of way. Best thing for anyone coming to look for advice though is to just go with your last statement "Sorry Thai`s, you will never change" and drive accordingly. As you're finding out, be prepared for anything and don't assume that everyone will drive the way you do in your home country, and never day dream while on the road.

[Kf6vci]

I can so relate. Many (often drivers of luxury cars) simply creep slowly into a busy lane. It's get out of my way or crash into me

time.

Q: What are the requirements to drive a bus and a Song Taew?

Many bus drivers are not that good at using the clutch. some stall the engine several times in a 20 minutes ride and others are driving like learners. And on Sundays, some village people seem to get a chance to drive. One guy never shifted past 2nd gear. Then he straddles two lanes. Or they torture the engine and go 15 km/h in 4th gear. Or they redline the engine in 2nd gear. and sometimes they drive slower than a marathon runner only to speed up and drive like maniacs for a few minutes. Once a driver was counting his baht coins while driving passengers...

When there is a problem, or they start a cold engine, many love to redline it. The louder the noise, the better the mechanic? Who cares if the oil is not hot and not circulating yet?

In Britain, they destroyed countless old diesel engines with MOT testing when they revved them brutally.

With some of these bus drivers, i wonder if they even hold a truck driving license? While there are excellent drivers, of course while others seem to hate the bus and appear to fight it by smashing gears and stepping on the accellerator. But most annoying are those who cannot maintain a steady speed for even a few seconds. they are constantly speeding up or slowing down, it's unnerving

The total disregard of our lives on 2 wheels is scary, but not limited to Thailand.

Be alert - especially in town. someone might drive as if you have eyes in the back of your head like a spider, expecting you to get out of their way!

Chris

[mezcal]

I know what you mean guys...

I rarely get upset or angry, but when I drive (bike or car) and see what happens on the roads here, blood starts to boil. I especially hate those drivers who never stop for pedestrians crossing the road. I see it every day when my students try to cross the fairly large road in front of the school. Cars never slow down, quite the opposite sometimes...or they just assume the kids will run fast enough to avoid them.

When I ride or drive I always try to have a 360degrees awareness of what is going on all around me, always checking my mirrors, keeping safety distance and overall having the smoothest ride possible (without sudden accelerations and stops). So far it served me well, but then....if it has to happen it will happen, right?

[ScubaBuddha]

Another thread on driving...my favorite.

Having driven in almost every part of Thailand now, I have to say that Phuket really is the most dangerous place to ride, with Bangkok a close second. I am convinced Thai drivers are missing the self-preservation gene. And Morien is not joking, this being a pre-deterministic society has something to do with the way drivers drive here. Whether you crash or not has less to do about the manner in which you drive, and more about whether you have recently made merit, have jai dee, and the number of amulets on the dash and amount of gold stuck to the cars roof. Therefore eliminating that annoying little thing called personal responsibility. If you don't believe this, just ask the nearest Thai person and they will happily confirm it. Having said that, to be fair, I will add that among the top few drivers that stand out in my memory as being the worst, several of them were farang.

We're normally taught to not overtake on a rise or bend because someone might be coming. Thai's overtake on a hill or bend because someone might not be coming. I have been cut up or slowly drifted into by cars, trucks, minibuses, cement trucks, and tour buses so many times that I now expect it. I am always reminding myself to slow down, not always easy on the Ninja.

The curves in Phuket are the worst. Cars/trucks/buses take the path of least resistance, apexing regardless of the lines on the road or the motorcycle next to them. I ride with one finger on the horn, one on the high beam trigger and I use them constantly. A friend of mine likes to punch the more aggressive tour buses side mirrors which makes them have to stop, as you can't drive one of those things without the mirrors.

One of the most dangerous things for motorcyclists here, and the thing I hate the most is when I am in the right lane overtaking a small bike or one of those illegal samlors and an oncoming car/truck/minibus decides to overtake using my lane even though I am in it causing me to swerve left. And often this happens on a bend or rise. I have had countless close calls that way. Sometimes I play chicken with them, of course leaving me enough time and room to avoid them if they don't get the f^&* out of my lane.

But, it's all relative. My mate works half the time in Azerbaijan. He says it's always nice to return to the relative calmness and sanity of the Thai roads.

I have had an idea to put on rider safety courses here in Thailand for some time, similar to what AP Honda does in Bangkok but with a real world application for riding in Thailand and Phuket in addition to learning how to control the bike. MSF USA won't train independent instructors so I am still looking for a training agency that I can get accredited with. There are so many things I wish an experienced rider would have taught me about riding in Thailand that I had to learn the hard way when I started out riding here.

Drivers in Thailand ....

...don't signal before turning, they signal when they turn.

...often turn from a full lane away from the driveway/soi they are entering.

...use left indicator to indicate a left turn, right indicator to indicate a right turn, and BOTH indicators to go straight ahead.

...use the size, speed, and height of the drivers seat to determine right of way.

...flash their headlights to indicate they are proceeding ahead.

...flash their headlights to indicate the other driver may proceed.

...on the highways, truckers will signal right when it is not clear to overtake, and signal left when it is.

...on motorbikes don't look to the right when entering from a side street. It's assumed the left side of the left lane will be clear for them, as motorcycles need to keep left.

...in cars will, if needed, drift left into the adjacent lane without looking. It's assumed the right side of the left lane will be clear, as motorcycles need to keep left.

...may overtake you while you are overtaking.

...usually jump the signal light 5 seconds before it turns green. (assuming they stopped in the first place)

...usually continue through a signal light several seconds after it has turned red. (Rule seems to be if the car in front of you gets through, so can you)

...in oncoming vehicles may overtake using your lane as long as you have room to move over onto the shoulder in time to avoid a head on.

I wish these were jokes. They are not.

.

Edited February 23, 2011 by ScubaBuddha

[thrilled]

I've found that the more I drive in thailand motorcycle/car the less irritated I become.I mean it's just part who they are.It's better to just bite your tongue and go with the flow.And naturally be quick to hit the brake.

[richard_smith237]

Simply put a lot of the driving here is moronic... IMO for no other reasons than there is no driver education combined with a lack of 'concept of consequence'...

There is also another thought that in everyday life a large proportion of the population build up an inner frustration due to having to remain calm and creng-jai lots of people around them... when in a car and out of eye contact and some distance away from the risk of personal conflict the 'so what' attitude arises and no one gives dam_n about any other vehicle on the road.

It's rather worrying to think back to schooling days in the UK and the fact that some of the idiot kids are now driving - but at least there is some form of driver education and consequence for negligent actions.

[ttakata]

Well I'll join the rants, but first a rave.

Pleasantly, in BKK at least; most everyone drives slow so I feel safer riding a bike here than in America.

I actually feel they are more courteous here, or at least more conscious of bikers.

Still there are idiot drivers everywhere and Thailand is simply newer to cars than Europe or NorthAm.

Now my rant.

Yes, within the global bell curve, Thailand is on the dumb side of the curve.

Besides the extremely inefficient language and poor street layout (in BKK), I find it ridiculous that most people back their cars into parking spots.

This clearly takes 2 to 5 times longer than just pulling in and backing out later.

One Sunday, I waited 45 minutes to enter and another 30 minutes to leave the Paradise shopping mall in BangNa because everyone had to wait for every other jackass to back their cars into spots.

I seriously saw people trying to load groceries into a backed in car.

If you know you're going to fill the trunk, why would you back it up against a concrete wall?

With millions of cars on the road this wastes considerable man hours of productivity every year in Thailand.

The whole stupid face/pride thing; showing off your precious car.

I can understand an Aston Martin or Lambo backed in (by a valet), but backing in a Camry or Vios, is just being delusional and costing everyone time.

Conclusion.

This had little to do with biking, but I do feel as a biker it is your responsibility to stay alert and alive.

One reason why people drive cars is they can afford to be careless and inconsiderate, chances are they'll live through an accident.

The thrill and potential for death while biking is a calculated risk for all of us.

When I got my first Thai driving license I saw an old guy repeatedly fail the braking reaction test, but an hour later I saw him with his passed papers.

Remember that and ride accordingly.

Edited February 23, 2011 by ttakata

[BigBikeBKK]

Wow... call out the Wah-bulance!

<deleted> folks, riding bikes is dangerous.

Riding bikes in Thailand is perhaps a bit more dangerous than in some (but certainly not all) other countries but it's also very rewarding as Thailand is a fantastic country to ride in. Go do a tour of Laos and I assure you you'll miss the civilized roads of Thailand in no time!

I hope the ranting makes you feel better. It's certainly not going to change the way anyone drives here :jap:

If you can't accept that risks I think it's time to get rid of your bike and drive a car.

Happy Trails!

Tony

Edited February 23, 2011 by BigBikeBKK

[richard_smith237]

Wow... call out the Wah-bulance!

<deleted> folks, riding bikes is dangerous.

Riding bikes in Thailand is perhaps a bit more dangerous than in some (but certainly not all) other countries but it's also very rewarding as Thailand is a fantastic country to ride in.

I hope the ranting makes you feel better. It's certainly not going to change the way anyone drives.

If you can't accept that risks I think it's time to get rid of your bike and drive a car.

Happy Trails!

Tony

Better still - If we don't like it we can go home.....

... come on - this thread was kind of created as a place to rant away....

[BigBikeBKK]

Wow... call out the Wah-bulance!

<deleted> folks, riding bikes is dangerous.

Riding bikes in Thailand is perhaps a bit more dangerous than in some (but certainly not all) other countries but it's also very rewarding as Thailand is a fantastic country to ride in.

I hope the ranting makes you feel better. It's certainly not going to change the way anyone drives.

If you can't accept that risks I think it's time to get rid of your bike and drive a car.

Happy Trails!

Tony

Better still - If we don't like it we can go home.....

... come on - this thread was kind of created as a place to rant away....

Point taken. But riding back home isn't half as fun as riding in Thailand! :jap:

[Danlo]

Sorry how long did you say you had been here ?

[moo9]

Just keep cool, ride carefully and rather slowly and by no mean act aggressively...

Yes i found it very scary when I arrived here years ago. Although the traffic and the skill of drivers did not improve since then, it seems like I feel more securer because I am always prepared to experience the unprparable ahead of me. Ride your bike not let the bike ride you and again, drive slow and relax. Not an eay job for one of us hot blooded farangs, but tjose should take the bus instead.

[Phatcharanan]

I guess the OP has never been to Africa.

[Gippy]

I've found that the more I drive in thailand motorcycle/car the less irritated I become.I mean it's just part who they are.It's better to just bite your tongue and go with the flow.And naturally be quick to hit the brake.

Spot on. I had similar feelings to the OP when I first started driving here but now I don't even think about it or even particularly notice when they do something crazy. If you are expecting craziness then there is no need to be surprised or angry when it happens.

Anyway, the OP should go and try India for a week, Thailand is driving bliss compared to there!

[Timthai]

I agree that drivers here are unpredictable, but there is generally a calmness, patience and tolerance here that I actually like... There are no horns blaring when someone needs to move lanes at the last minute or cut in to a long line waiting to turn, there is just an acceptance that he needs to do it, and I may need to next time. You don't see that in many places, including back home!Take a look at the chaos on the roads in India. The horn switch is connected to the indicator, the brake, the accelerator and the steering wheel. No patience, ro rules. Purely survival of the fittest.Tony's right, riding a motorcycle is dangerous. It doesn't matter where you ride, you're foolish if you don't assume that every other road user is an idiot and about to do something stupid.

[ThunderDuck]

I agree that drivers here are unpredictable, but there is generally a calmness, patience and tolerance here that I actually like... There are no horns blaring when someone needs to move lanes at the last minute or cut in to a long line waiting to turn, there is just an acceptance that he needs to do it, and I may need next time. You don't see that in many places, including back home!Take a look at the chaos on the roads in India....

Or Vietnam ... riding here is a holiday in comparison.

[trisailer]

I've ridden all my life and I think that my chances of being killed or injured in Thailand are about the same as in the states. I just moved back from Florida where I racked up 15,000 miles on my Vino and I've seen some pretty dumb stuff. I think that in Thailand there is a much greator awareness of bikes and people are generally paying more attention. It was easy for me to feel safe in Florida and let my guard down which probably made me more likely to have a mishap. In Thailand I never let that happen. The danger from cars in Thailand is a little less I think because most people are aware of bikes and are looking out more for them. The exception to that is nitwits passing on hills and curves out on the open road. An added danger in Thailand is the number of bikes. Each time I start out from a light with a hundred other bikes, driven by people of various skill it reminds me of motocross starts where anything can happen. The most horrible accident I've seen here is when two bikes got too close and touched handlebars going 80 kph.

I think I've become more patient with drivers in Pattaya because I understand that this is a growing city with lots of new people moving here everyday. There are lots of new drivers on the road and that poses a risk for everyone. My wife was a new driver when she clipped a thai guy on a bike and had to take him to the hospital. Think about the fact that many Thai drivers are just starting to drive later in life. I can deal with experenced aggressive drivers but inexperenced and overly cautious drivers make me crazy.

The bottom line is that the issues have to do with driver experence and lack of training and absolutely nothing to do with being Thai.

[Darkman]

Thai's, moronic drivers, enough said.

[snowflake]

so who are the worst?

Foreigners coming here with no understanding on how people in this country rides/drives and without a valid license, still thinking that they are better than everyone else -or- the thais that has ridden a bike since they could walk and have only learned what the traffic has taught them? Who are the worst?

Riding here is not more dangerous than in other countries- just remember that two objects can not be in the same spot at the same time...

Dont forget that thais grow up with their way of riding- they dont notice anything wrong about it...

Just because the west has a better system (but for sure more boring) does that mean we should complain about the way they ride here?

I would like to see more people getting trained but I still think it would not get better out there- might even get more dangerous and boring...

I have to say that I am always happy getting back home in one piece after a ride, but I would not have it any other way...

[Gary A]

I have a good friend who lives near Krabi. He constantly complains about the terrible drivers. I do take more long road trips than most people here and have found that the far south of Thailand has more than its share of poor (reckless) drivers. I live in Loei province and find that the drivers up here are better drivers. Maybe it is because of the more laid back attitude and the slower pace of living. There IS a noticeable difference.

[RED21]

I've been riding in the Chiang Mai province for quite a while now...

RANTS:

-Most of the time drivers us the wrong turn lights here, don't use turn lights or worse have broken turn lights (especially on older vehicles, like trucks).

-Lots of people drive on the wrong side of the road especially those not wearing helmets and those that don't know how to drive properly. I come across these very often and they just come at you with a big grin on their faces, like they'll be glad to have a head on collision with you. They drive on the wrong side of the road because either their scared, or too lazy to go use the U-turn ahead.

-Truck drivers have no respect for motorcyclists, actually they have no respect for everyone else on the road on the road they'll use their size to run you off the road. They usually like to use the fast lane even if they're prohibited by traffic rules to do so. The same goes for most local well-off SUV drivers. They will bully you off the road!

What you can do be a little safer...

-Check your bike before and after every ride

-Plan routes and try to avoid roads where there is a high concentration of idiots on the road

-Always stay on alert and identify potential hazards ahead , speed up or slow down as necessary (slow does not always mean safe)

-Always leave yourself an out

-Even when driving in the motorcycle lane, always expect a moron to come from the opposite direction, expect dogs coming at you or someone out of his mind lying on the road

-Don't get goaded into racing with other riders, on the street

-Never drink while driving (I know it's kind of difficult for most of us)

-No matter what Thais say, use the horn, it's there for a reason

-Be visible to the other drivers as much as possible (I know black is cool, but pink/orange/yellow is the new black... I guess that's why Yellow Corn jackets are popular among Thais even if they look like walking billboards)

-Always wear protective gear

-Always remember car vs bike in an accident, car always wins

-Most importantly, never be overconfident or overestimate your riding skill

I recommend reading "Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well" by David L. Hough.

[Zzinged]

I used to get real fed up when driving here. Now 5 years later I find I'm more zen-like while driving and I get less pissed off. You'd be better off learning to control your temper on the road so you don't ruin your drive/ride/commute.

And also, when you say Thai's you actually mean Thais.

[appropriate]

They are in a car. They have money. They are Phu Yai.

You are on a motorbike. You don't have money. You are Phu Noi.

Why would they treat you like equals when you are not?

Edited February 24, 2011 by appropriate

[Daewoo]

Besides the extremely inefficient language and poor street layout (in BKK), I find it ridiculous that most people back their cars into parking spots.

This clearly takes 2 to 5 times longer than just pulling in and backing out later.

One Sunday, I waited 45 minutes to enter and another 30 minutes to leave the Paradise shopping mall in BangNa because everyone had to wait for every other jackass to back their cars into spots.

I seriously saw people trying to load groceries into a backed in car.

If you know you're going to fill the trunk, why would you back it up against a concrete wall?

With millions of cars on the road this wastes considerable man hours of productivity every year in Thailand.

The whole stupid face/pride thing; showing off your precious car.

I can understand an Aston Martin or Lambo backed in (by a valet), but backing in a Camry or Vios, is just being delusional and costing everyone time.

Driving into parking spots if for people who can't reverse properly (unless you need access to the boot)... you are trying to drive into a parallel spot while the vehicle is still at an angle... unless the roadway you are entering from is very wide, you end up too close on one side and have to reverse out and reposition (or leave the car half into the spot beside you...

[RusticCharm]

They are in a car. They have money. They are Phu Yai.

You are on a motorbike. You don't have money. You are Phu Noi.

Why would they treat you like equals when you are not?

What if my bike costs more than their car? 

[appropriate]

They are in a car. They have money. They are Phu Yai.

You are on a motorbike. You don't have money. You are Phu Noi.

Why would they treat you like equals when you are not?

What if my bike costs more than their car?

As you're farang keenok your t-shirt could be worth more than their house and the phu yai/noi roles still wouldn't be reversed.

[appropriate]

Besides the extremely inefficient language and poor street layout (in BKK), I find it ridiculous that most people back their cars into parking spots.

This clearly takes 2 to 5 times longer than just pulling in and backing out later.

One Sunday, I waited 45 minutes to enter and another 30 minutes to leave the Paradise shopping mall in BangNa because everyone had to wait for every other jackass to back their cars into spots.

I seriously saw people trying to load groceries into a backed in car.

If you know you're going to fill the trunk, why would you back it up against a concrete wall?

With millions of cars on the road this wastes considerable man hours of productivity every year in Thailand.

The whole stupid face/pride thing; showing off your precious car.

I can understand an Aston Martin or Lambo backed in (by a valet), but backing in a Camry or Vios, is just being delusional and costing everyone time.

Driving into parking spots if for people who can't reverse properly (unless you need access to the boot)... you are trying to drive into a parallel spot while the vehicle is still at an angle... unless the roadway you are entering from is very wide, you end up too close on one side and have to reverse out and reposition (or leave the car half into the spot beside you...

I find reversing into a spot as the better option as quite simply, it allows you to see the road when pulling back out later on, as opposed to reversing back onto the road without really being able to see what's out there/ baring down on you at the speed of sound.

[Rimmer]

One Unnecessarily cruel dig removed

[powderpuff]

I've been riding in the Chiang Mai province for quite a while now...

RANTS:

-Most of the time drivers us the wrong turn lights here, don't use turn lights or worse have broken turn lights (especially on older vehicles, like trucks).

-Lots of people drive on the wrong side of the road especially those not wearing helmets and those that don't know how to drive properly. I come across these very often and they just come at you with a big grin on their faces, like they'll be glad to have a head on collision with you. They drive on the wrong side of the road because either their scared, or too lazy to go use the U-turn ahead.

-Truck drivers have no respect for motorcyclists, actually they have no respect for everyone else on the road on the road they'll use their size to run you off the road. They usually like to use the fast lane even if they're prohibited by traffic rules to do so. The same goes for most local well-off SUV drivers. They will bully you off the road!

What you can do be a little safer...

-Check your bike before and after every ride

-Plan routes and try to avoid roads where there is a high concentration of idiots on the road

-Always stay on alert and identify potential hazards ahead , speed up or slow down as necessary (slow does not always mean safe)

-Always leave yourself an out RULE #1

-Even when driving in the motorcycle lane, always expect a moron to come from the opposite direction, expect dogs coming at you or someone out of his mind lying on the road

-Don't get goaded into racing with other riders, on the street

-Never drink while driving (I know it's kind of difficult for most of us)

-No matter what Thais say, use the horn, it's there for a reason

-Be visible to the other drivers as much as possible (I know black is cool, but pink/orange/yellow is the new black... I guess that's why Yellow Corn jackets are popular among Thais even if they look like walking billboards)

-Always wear protective gear

-Always remember car vs bike in an accident, car always wins

-Most importantly, never be overconfident or overestimate your riding skill

I recommend reading "Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well" by David L. Hough.