Suvarnabhumi To Get 4 Billion Baht To Facilitate Rising Traffic

[kuffki]

15 million international and you trying to say 27 million local????

If thats the case, why would phase 2 would be to accomodate 20 million(total) local when they already get 27 million(last year as per your post)

I'm not saying it. Lots of airport articles are.

This says 38 million for Jan-Nov 2010. http://en.wikipedia....date_statistics

This says 7 million for Jan 2010. http://www.flightglo...ffic-up-28.html

This says 32 million for 9 months to June 2010. http://www.reuters.c...E669A5D20100710

This says 42 million in 2010 http://www.thaivisa....h-best-airport/

Where are you getting your numbers?

see post 20 the tourist arrivals chart. which shows international arrivals being around 15 million. So if they claim 42 or 38 that means the rest are local and figures do not add up

[Nisa]

BKK currently handles over 40 million passengers annually. Of that 40 million, approx. 30 million are international travelers.

The number on the chart are tourist "arrivals"

[ginjag]

#31 Kuffki-----------what the other poster is saying, under 35,000 a day divided by how many dom flights a day ???..correct me if I,m wrong, inter arrivals--is transit included ??

[kuffki]

#31 Kuffki-----------what the other poster is saying, under 35,000 a day divided by how many dom flights a day ???..correct me if I,m wrong, inter arrivals--is transit included ??

I am not sure but numbers do not add up.

They claim they handle 42 million people per year, and need to expand to 80 million out of which 60 will be international and 20 domestic.

At the same time they say 15 million international arrived last year(example) leaving 27 million for the domestic-does not add up

If we do take into consideration the transit i do not think its another 15 million, but if it is then they must be hiding all those people somewhere because i have never ever seen the airport(past immigration being packed)

Because with 42 million per year that would be on any given day there should be around 116 000 people in the airport-thats pretty big numbers and personally i never seen it, even close to half of that

[jdinasia]

If 15 million arrive it would appear logical that (for the most part) those 15 million also leave = 30 million

If 6 million people travel domestically annually, that would be 12 million total arrivals and departures.

30+12=42

[whybother]

#31 Kuffki-----------what the other poster is saying, under 35,000 a day divided by how many dom flights a day ???..correct me if I,m wrong, inter arrivals--is transit included ??

I am not sure but numbers do not add up.

They claim they handle 42 million people per year, and need to expand to 80 million out of which 60 will be international and 20 domestic.

At the same time they say 15 million international arrived last year(example) leaving 27 million for the domestic-does not add up

If we do take into consideration the transit i do not think its another 15 million, but if it is then they must be hiding all those people somewhere because i have never ever seen the airport(past immigration being packed)

Because with 42 million per year that would be on any given day there should be around 116 000 people in the airport-thats pretty big numbers and personally i never seen it, even close to half of that

"15 million arrived" .... are they still here? No ... so therefore, there were 15 million departures also.

The 42 million is a widely published figure. I think it's how you're reading the numbers that's the problem.

Given that the current 42 million has 15 million international arrivals and 15 million international departures, that leaves 12 million domestic movements.

So, doubling to 80 mil means doubling international to 60 mil and domestic to 20 mil.

[kuffki]

#31 Kuffki-----------what the other poster is saying, under 35,000 a day divided by how many dom flights a day ???..correct me if I,m wrong, inter arrivals--is transit included ??

I am not sure but numbers do not add up.

They claim they handle 42 million people per year, and need to expand to 80 million out of which 60 will be international and 20 domestic.

At the same time they say 15 million international arrived last year(example) leaving 27 million for the domestic-does not add up

If we do take into consideration the transit i do not think its another 15 million, but if it is then they must be hiding all those people somewhere because i have never ever seen the airport(past immigration being packed)

Because with 42 million per year that would be on any given day there should be around 116 000 people in the airport-thats pretty big numbers and personally i never seen it, even close to half of that

"15 million arrived" .... are they still here? No ... so therefore, there were 15 million departures also.

The 42 million is a widely published figure. I think it's how you're reading the numbers that's the problem.

Given that the current 42 million has 15 million international arrivals and 15 million international departures, that leaves 12 million domestic movements.

So, doubling to 80 mil means doubling international to 60 mil and domestic to 20 mil.

Ok, i am with you, you are adding the arrivals and departures

[whybother]

Ok, i am with you, you are adding the arrivals and departures

It adds up. As I said, the 42 million is widely published.

The numbers are usually for people going through the airport. They would not count an arrival and departure as one movement, since some people would arrive OR depart through the airport, but not both (arriving or departing through some other port). I don't know how they count transits, but think they would count them as an arrival AND departure.

[Nisa]

approx. numbers re: BKK airport ...

30 Million International travelers includes Arrivals, Departures and TRANSFERS

Then there are also 10 Million domestic travelers.

Total = 40 Million

The numbers in the chart I shared in another post were for tourist arrivals to Thailand (international) ... not even sure they had to come through the airport. See note below chart. The chart was shared in rebuttal to the claim tourism is down in Thailand and therefore no need to expand the airport.

Actual airport passenger traffic numbers (above) are quoted in many places and are obviously different than total tourist arrival to the country but in typical times one would expect the a growth trend to be similar between TOTAL tourist arrivals and those who fly into BKK.

[whybother]

approx. numbers re: BKK airport ...

30 Million International travelers includes Arrivals, Departures and TRANSFERS

Then there are also 10 Million domestic travelers.

Total = 40 Million

The numbers in the chart I shared in another post were for tourist arrivals to Thailand (international) ... not even sure they had to come through the airport. It was simply to share in rebuttal to the claim tourism is going down in Thailand.

Interestingly, I found this on an airport forum ... not allowed to post the link for another forum.

I used to work at MAN in the very department that calculated the figures so I can tell you how it's done in the UK. The CAA requires that all airport operators report accurate figures to them. A passenger is someone who departs from or arrives at your airport - transit passengers have to be reported but are not included in an airport's passenger figures.

And this: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Passenger_transport_statistics#Air_passengers

Air passengers

Air transport statistics concern national and international transport, as measured by the number of passengers carried; information is collected for arrivals and departures. Air passengers carried relate to all passengers on a particular flight (with one flight number) counted once only and not repeatedly on each individual stage of that flight. Air passengers include all revenue and non-revenue passengers whose journey begins or terminates at the reporting airport and transfer passengers joining or leaving the flight at the reporting airport; but excludes direct transit passengers

I assume "direct transit passengers" are ones that don't need to deboard the plane.

[Nisa]

See: http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic

Data provided by Airports Council International and BAA. One passenger is described as someone who arrives in, departs from, or transfers through the airport on a given day.

2009 BKK had 40,500,224 passengers for the year.

** The 2010 numbers only show through Aug. 2010 on this page

[Nisa]

Interestingly, I found this on an airport forum ... not allowed to post the link for another forum.

I used to work at MAN in the very department that calculated the figures so I can tell you how it's done in the UK. The CAA requires that all airport operators report accurate figures to them. A passenger is someone who departs from or arrives at your airport - transit passengers have to be reported but are not included in an airport's passenger figures.

I wonder if this is why he "used to" work there

The UK CAA may count differently (internally) but the global comparisons should use the same criteria.

MAIN TERMS AND DESCRIPTIONS USED IN CIVIL AVIATION STATISTICS

http://icaodata.com/Terms.aspx

Direct transit passengers. Passengers who continue their journey on a flight having the same flight number as the flight on which they arrived. Passengers in direct transit are counted only once. Other transit passengers and stop-over passengers are counted twice: once as embarked passengers and once as disembarked passengers.

[whybother]

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic

Data provided by Airports Council International and BAA. One passenger is described as someone who arrives in, departs from, or transfers through the airport on a given day.

2009 BKK had 40,500,224 passengers for the year.

** The 2010 numbers only show through Aug. 2010 on this page

The link doesn't work properly because of the apostrophe in the name. You need to cut and paste.

The 2010 figures also show to November - 38.5 mil for Suv. So extrapolated would get to about 41-42 mil for the year.

[Nisa]

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic

Data provided by Airports Council International and BAA. One passenger is described as someone who arrives in, departs from, or transfers through the airport on a given day.

2009 BKK had 40,500,224 passengers for the year.

** The 2010 numbers only show through Aug. 2010 on this page

The link doesn't work properly because of the apostrophe in the name. You need to cut and paste.

The 2010 figures also show to November - 38.5 mil for Suv. So extrapolated would get to about 41-42 mil for the year.

Thanks - fixed.

[ginjag]

So these figures are beginning to take some shape, Just on Domestic, I saw 2 figures---one was 10 million and the other 12 mil.....................What i,m having difficulty finding( time against me today, as I,ve 700 kilo/mt drive-north to south) is how many aeroplanes are landing/taking off EACH day ????? so the 10-12 mil could be sort of questioned or not. we would see if passengers per day--added up approx with knowing how many planes arrived...and left just food for thought.----- just to verify the dom numbers

[Nisa]

A couple years ago the average number of flights in/out of BKK was 745 on a typical day but could increase by 100 on busy holidays.

*Not sure if these are scheduled flights only or also include private aircrafts.

The airport can handle up to 76 flights per hour on its 2 runways (1 out / 1 in) while also being designed to handle up to 45 million passengers in a year (The baggage handling system at Suvarnabhumi airport also has the capability to serve up to 45 million passengers per year.)

But I personally cannot understand why anybody would question the numbers presented here and all over the internet and quoted by various sources & agencies when it comes to passengers. Can understand the confusion of how the numbers were derived but not the approximate totals.

And although the airport can handle 76 flights per hour and it appears they were averaging 1/2 this in a day previously, flights are not spread out evenly through out a 24 hour period. The same is true for the 45 Million passenger capacity ... during certain periods the airport is likely running over capacity as do many during the holidays.

Trying to figure out how many passengers by number of flights would be near impossible without knowing the size of each plane and its occupancy rate.

Facilities

• 130 passport control checkpoints for arrivals, 72 for departures.
• 26 customs control checkpoints for arrivals, 8 for departures.
• 22 baggage conveyor belts.
• 360 check-in counters. There are 100 additional counters for passengers without luggage.
• 107 moving walkways.
• 102 elevators.
• 83 escalators.

The airport has the world's tallest control tower (132.2 metres / 434 feet), and the world's third largest single-building airport terminal (563,000 square metres / 6,060,000 square feet).

Capacity

The airport has 2 parallel runways (60 m. wide, 4,000 m. and 3700 m. long) and 2 parallel taxiways to accommodate simultaneous departures and arrivals. It has a total of 120 parking bays (51 with contact gates and 69 remote gates) and 5 of these are capable of accommodating the Airbus A380 aircraft. With a capacity of handling 76 flight operations per hour, both international and domestic flights will share the airport terminal but will be assigned to different parts of the concourse. In the initial phase of construction, it will be capable of handling 45 million passengers and 3 million tonnes of cargo per year. Between the airport hotel and the terminal building are the two 5-storey car park buildings with a combined capacity of 5,000 cars.

[ginjag]

A couple years ago the average number of flights in/out of BKK was 745 on a typical day but could increase by 100 on busy holidays.

*Not sure if these are scheduled flights only or also include private aircrafts.

The airport can handle up to 76 flights per hour on its 2 runways (1 out / 1 in) while also being designed to handle up to 45 million passengers in a year (The baggage handling system at Suvarnabhumi airport also has the capability to serve up to 45 million passengers per year.)

But I personally cannot understand why anybody would question the numbers presented here and all over the internet and quoted by various sources & agencies when it comes to passengers. Can understand the confusion of how the numbers were derived but not the approximate totals.

And although the airport can handle 76 flights per hour and it appears they were averaging 1/2 this in a day previously, flights are not spread out evenly through out a 24 hour period. The same is true for the 45 Million passenger capacity ... during certain periods the airport is likely running over capacity as do many during the holidays.

Trying to figure out how many passengers by number of flights would be near impossible without knowing the size of each plane and its occupancy rate.

Facilities

• 130 passport control checkpoints for arrivals, 72 for departures.
• 26 customs control checkpoints for arrivals, 8 for departures.
• 22 baggage conveyor belts.
• 360 check-in counters. There are 100 additional counters for passengers without luggage.
• 107 moving walkways.
• 102 elevators.
• 83 escalators.

The airport has the world's tallest control tower (132.2 metres / 434 feet), and the world's third largest single-building airport terminal (563,000 square metres / 6,060,000 square feet).

Capacity

The airport has 2 parallel runways (60 m. wide, 4,000 m. and 3700 m. long) and 2 parallel taxiways to accommodate simultaneous departures and arrivals. It has a total of 120 parking bays (51 with contact gates and 69 remote gates) and 5 of these are capable of accommodating the Airbus A380 aircraft. With a capacity of handling 76 flight operations per hour, both international and domestic flights will share the airport terminal but will be assigned to different parts of the concourse. In the initial phase of construction, it will be capable of handling 45 million passengers and 3 million tonnes of cargo per year. Between the airport hotel and the terminal building are the two 5-storey car park buildings with a combined capacity of 5,000 cars.

All that data is useful, sure but all domestic airports have a said number of domestic flights, to and from Bkk, all I wanted but unable to get as yet, I know Udon has Thia and air asia, 6 flights in and out total. given this...and adding all dom airports, gives us the number of flights. This total figure, would give us a useful number to work on. the other figures I have not entirely disbelieved.... It was the domestic movements that are important, as they are included in the numbers mentioned--and I have an Idea this total is a bit higher than the said figures published. If it could be obtained it would have some bearing on the total. Difficult I know but I think I have a point here.....Facilities figures accepted but are they all in use ??? immig/..mov/walkways/ ..

[Nisa]

Today (Sunday, Feb. 27) here is a break down of domestic SCHEDULED ARRIVALS ONLY (no departures) flights ...

Chiang Mai ...... 32

Chiang Rai ..... 9

Koh Samui ..... 26

Krabi .............. 11

Nakhon Si Thammarat ... 2

Narathiwat ...... 1

Phucket .......... 43

Surat Thani .... 4

Trat ................ 6

Ubon Ratchathani ... 4

Udon Thani .... 5

TOTAL = 143

Keep in mind that Don Muang had 70 scheduled arrivals today and eventually I would assume these airlines need to move back to the new BKK

Pretty sure I counted right but others are welcome to check http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByAirport.do

[ginjag]

Today (Sunday, Feb. 27) here is a break down of domestic SCHEDULED ARRIVALS ONLY (no departures) flights ...

Chiang Mai ...... 32

Chiang Rai ..... 9

Koh Samui ..... 26

Krabi .............. 11

Nakhon Si Thammarat ... 2

Narathiwat ...... 1

Phucket .......... 43

Surat Thani .... 4

Trat ................ 6

Ubon Ratchathani ... 4

Udon Thani .... 5

TOTAL = 143

Keep in mind that Don Muang had 70 scheduled arrivals today and eventually I would assume these airlines need to move back to the new BKK

Pretty sure I counted right but others are welcome to check http://www.flightsta...tusByAirport.do

doubleing this up x passengers,could estimate 20 million--and not 10/12 ??????....................Don muang actually has more than I expected--its numbers have increased ????---so the need for maybe Thai buiness persons, getting nearer to their venues could be the answer.... I have an idea it may expand rather than move on these figures...ANYWAY thanks for these stats they do come in useful at times I do mean that. really helpful.

[whybother]

Today (Sunday, Feb. 27) here is a break down of domestic SCHEDULED ARRIVALS ONLY (no departures) flights ...

Chiang Mai ...... 32

Chiang Rai ..... 9

Koh Samui ..... 26

Krabi .............. 11

Nakhon Si Thammarat ... 2

Narathiwat ...... 1

Phucket .......... 43

Surat Thani .... 4

Trat ................ 6

Ubon Ratchathani ... 4

Udon Thani .... 5

TOTAL = 143

Keep in mind that Don Muang had 70 scheduled arrivals today and eventually I would assume these airlines need to move back to the new BKK

Pretty sure I counted right but others are welcome to check http://www.flightsta...tusByAirport.do

doubleing this up x passengers,could estimate 20 million--and not 10/12 ??????....................Don muang actually has more than I expected--its numbers have increased ????---so the need for maybe Thai buiness persons, getting nearer to their venues could be the answer.... I have an idea it may expand rather than move on these figures...ANYWAY thanks for these stats they do come in useful at times I do mean that. really helpful.

Do these numbers include flights between smaller airports (ie not from Suv or DM)?

And without knowing the size of any of the planes, there is no way you can estimate passenger numbers.

What is wrong with accepting the widely published numbers?

[Sunderland]

The whole place needs to be blown up and a new modern airport built. This place is so outdated and definately not user friendly. people stopped getting of planes on the tarmac 50 yrs ago. They need an airport where planes pull up to the terminals. I am sure that they could go and look at any airport in the world and get some ideas how to do things. Suvarnbhumi is 50 yrs behind the times bulldoze it and start again.

I fly quite frequently between Bangkok and Dubai on Emirates. The plane always departs from and arrives at the airport terminal at Suvarnabhumi. In Dubai about 20% of the Emirates arrivals/departures seem to involve getting on and off a bus.

Conclusion ... Suvarnabhumi is hardly unique in the area you 'moaned' about.

[ginjag]

Today (Sunday, Feb. 27) here is a break down of domestic SCHEDULED ARRIVALS ONLY (no departures) flights ...

Chiang Mai ...... 32

Chiang Rai ..... 9

Koh Samui ..... 26

Krabi .............. 11

Nakhon Si Thammarat ... 2

Narathiwat ...... 1

Phucket .......... 43

Surat Thani .... 4

Trat ................ 6

Ubon Ratchathani ... 4

Udon Thani .... 5

TOTAL = 143

Keep in mind that Don Muang had 70 scheduled arrivals today and eventually I would assume these airlines need to move back to the new BKK

Pretty sure I counted right but others are welcome to check http://www.flightsta...tusByAirport.do

doubleing this up x passengers,could estimate 20 million--and not 10/12 ??????....................Don muang actually has more than I expected--its numbers have increased ????---so the need for maybe Thai buiness persons, getting nearer to their venues could be the answer.... I have an idea it may expand rather than move on these figures...ANYWAY thanks for these stats they do come in useful at times I do mean that. really helpful.

Do these numbers include flights between smaller airports (ie not from Suv or DM)?

And without knowing the size of any of the planes, there is no way you can estimate passenger numbers.

What is wrong with accepting the widely published numbers?

Nisa....no the figures apertained to Bkk only. The aircraft are known on the routes so an estimated number worked out re-average pass/load. if these figures are even nearish-it alters the bal fig of Int/dom arrival/ departures. I accept the figures on Inter/ but the domestic I always felt a shortfall/lower fig-was published. But Don muang IS doing very well ?? just a proven fact there is still good life in the OLD girl yet. and yes I have a nice respect for it. I did wish they had re housed the airforce. then we could have had the 3rd runway there. It would have saved BILLIONS to stay ===apart from a beautiful facelift that would have cost chicken feed.