Installing A Thai Safe In Your House

[DumFarang]

Also why shouldn't I own a gun? That's a serious question by the way

Maybe you'd like to check out this thread which will answer why you shouldn't own a gun

http://www.thaivisa....ws-in-thailand/

Great link. If only we always had answers to questions that explained everything we needed to know so precisely.

[NoBrainer]

Ill tell you guys the method I use. This is cheap and effective.

First buy the Largest / Heaviest safe that you can Afford / Have room for.

After you have fixed it in which ever manner available to you, then go out and buy Enough Lead Bars or Powdered Lead to fill up the unused portion of the safe.

Essentially you can make a 90 Kilo safe weigh 250 Kilo's very easily and still have plenty of room to put your valuables inside.

The bigger the safe is the harder it is for burglars to carry it away unnoticed, and once you get past the 200 Kilo weight it is very difficult to lift without a small crane.

300 Kilo's of Lead is quite cheap and very Compact.

Edited March 10, 2011 by NoBrainer

[beechstreet]

300 Kilo's of Lead is quite cheap and very Compact.

I like that idea, even if they do manage to muscle it out imagine their disappointment when they discover ingots of lead, not gold, inside.

For reasons unrelated to this "discussion" I've been looking for some lead...do you have a source in Bangkok?

[Spoonman]

Ill tell you guys the method I use. This is cheap and effective.

First buy the Largest / Heaviest safe that you can Afford / Have room for.

After you have fixed it in which ever manner available to you, then go out and buy Enough Lead Bars or Powdered Lead to fill up the unused portion of the safe.

Essentially you can make a 90 Kilo safe weigh 250 Kilo's very easily and still have plenty of room to put your valuables inside.

The bigger the safe is the harder it is for burglars to carry it away unnoticed, and once you get past the 200 Kilo weight it is very difficult to lift without a small crane.

300 Kilo's of Lead is quite cheap and very Compact.

The dimensions of a pure ASTM B2930kg lead ingot is,

Size: 52.7 cm long

10.5 cm wide at top

7.6 cm wide at base

7 cm high

Must be a huge safe to fit in 300kg's worth.

[doglover]

Ill tell you guys the method I use. This is cheap and effective.

First buy the Largest / Heaviest safe that you can Afford / Have room for.

After you have fixed it in which ever manner available to you, then go out and buy Enough Lead Bars or Powdered Lead to fill up the unused portion of the safe.

Essentially you can make a 90 Kilo safe weigh 250 Kilo's very easily and still have plenty of room to put your valuables inside.

The bigger the safe is the harder it is for burglars to carry it away unnoticed, and once you get past the 200 Kilo weight it is very difficult to lift without a small crane.

300 Kilo's of Lead is quite cheap and very Compact.

That really is a "no brainer" after you mention it. Very good idea if thought is given to ample floor support. I would have only one concern, the delivery. If the wrong people (even simply local gossipers) see that BIG safe being delivered assumptions will be made that your valuables must be equally big. Any suggestions on having it delivered discreetly?

What comes to mind is not purchasing locally and having it delivered (covered up) during a sure to be quite daytime hour as under nightfall would draw more attention even with less visibility.

[beechstreet]

Must be a huge safe to fit in 300kg's worth.

300kg of lead is around 30cm x 30cm (about a cubic foot)?

Doesn't seem that big to me.

[JimsKnight]

Also why shouldn't I own a gun? That's a serious question by the way

Maybe you'd like to check out this thread which will answer why you shouldn't own a gun

http://www.thaivisa....ws-in-thailand/

Sorry, already read that thread and I am a legit owner of that gun. No dice for you

[JimsKnight]

16 kg. isn't a very heavy safe. I have one that weighs much, much more and with the smooth metal on the outside and the awkwardness of holding it, it is really difficult to pick up and walk with; and I'm no weakling nor am I old. You want that to be part of your defense if it gets to the stage where somebody can pick it up. They will quickly realize that they are not going very far and will look 100% suspicious, and knowing this country they wouldn't have thought that far ahead. Thieves don't tend to back vehicles up to houses to they can load something heavy and get away.

I've had a few friends who were robbed and there were commonalities shared in each, and, incidentally, the biggest one accounts for me never having been robbed--staying out of sight. I live on a road that usually has people around and things going on.

Here are some other things to be aware of if you're not already:

1 Naturally someone will case the joint, but you could easily not see this.

2 They will likely be prepared to open a door or window easily, but apart from that they will want to have parked nearby, walk in not looking too suspicious, and walk away the same way. So dropping a laptop, netbook, or iphone into a bag, or of course stealing money, works great.

3 The cleverest I heard of happened a few years ago when some thieves got a hold of some kind of sleeping gas. Dark areas,

in the middle of the night they would find a way to get a little tube into the house and knock everybody unconscious. Then they just broke in and walked around confidently doing whatever they wanted, very scary.

4 There are stories of armed burglaries in Thailand, but I reckon one of these happens per 100 or more. Normally the thief slips in and out while the house is empty, or something to this effect.

5 Lastly, thieves are lazy, but they are opportunists. A lot of times construction provides a great opportunity for them. A friend of mine who lives in a small gated community got robbed while part of the wall was down due to construction (a new house caused the wall to have to be extended to get around it). While there was a nice big hole there a thief or thieves just couldn't resist. If the wall were in place the last thing they wanted to be doing was climbing it (all that extra effort) and something like my friend's laptop could've been broken in the process. They did it in broad daylight just past midday while the community was totally empty (obviously with help to know that for sure).

Hope I've been helpful somehow.

I great post, I thought I was about to have an anti-gun 'tard on my case there

1. I agree, this is why my place has tinted windows all around

Yes they also like a place to park up and use for getaway. When they attempted to bust in this is exactly what they did.

2. Again yes, thieves don't like noise. They slid open my mates window which had the usb dongle going through it.

3. The sleeping gas is downright sneaky. Thankfully in my room I have an air-extractor whice would really make that scenario a no-go.

4. Which is why I have a gun, pepper-spray and other things I know farangs who haven't been on the ball who have had the humiliating and demeaning experience of home-invasion. Every one I've spoken to who has had this happen has wished they were armed and of reacted quicker to the invasion instead of cowering in their beds like a wretch. Do you hear me now anti-gun 'tards?

5. I suspect the builders nearby may of had a hand in passing on information to the thieves.

[JimsKnight]

Seriously Jim what you need to do is install a safe in the cement hidden. My safe in Hawaii was 110 pounds & was metal plated to girders & then steel with cement over the rafters. The safe was then welded onto the metal plate.The floor had a hidden panel to get to the safe.In addition to that I had a safe in my closet with $87 a fake Rolex watch & some defunct stocks from Roan copper mines(Now defunct) Worth zip but traceable. The Thai safes are pretty bogus & any angle grinder & 4 or 5 other ways mentioned to get in.Also get a 1000 baht phone so if they use the cell the GPS feature will let the heat trace the whereabouts if they are dumb enough to use the phone & most of the Komoies are bumbling idiots.That is how Sattahib caught 4 of 5 of the idiots that robbed us.( before I thought about securing the property & the most important portion US!.)Not to handy for a piece to be in a safe when you need it. I had my Mossberg shotgun proudly displayed & my Smith & Wesson handgun hidden in a custom flip down panel I built near the air conditioner. I still prefer my blades over the guns, But the guns are the right thing for a gunfight! I also paid the local heat & my safe doors & flip down panel were all wired to the cop shop. I realize here you may not have the options as home But seriously I would only use that safe as a decoy so your piece doesn't grow wings if they steal the safe or get into it. My girl can easily pick up & carry 20 kilos -Our dogs weigh more.

You sound like you are capable of crafting a hidden panel somewhere assessable for the gun.A gun in the safe is too late by the time you get it out.Neither of our dogs will eat from strangers when we are not right there. If you tossed a nice steak they would just keep barking.They jump over the barb wire fence & they get a load full of teeth from the Black Lab. The Retriever not to great at biting unless your close to him. The Lab stays away from the fence but will rush after a breach. I can't get them to do tricks but all they need to be good at is keeping the un-wanteds out. Really a good option if you can have a dog at your place. You would have to train the dog from a puppy to get it to not eat a pitched hunk of food.

I was foolish once & built this house as close to a fortress & have great protection 1 minute away that is a cop that really loves to unload his gun on any perps. Well worth it!!!!!

Good luck on the safe.

Thanks for this post, it's worth answering.

Firstly. I agree on the cement thing.

I can't fck around too much with altering the design of the house. The reason is I rent and never will buy property here. This leaves me with less options.

Yes the safe is going to be used as a decoy one once I get more time and cash together for a bigger safe. I also need a pick-up. This will probably be months away though.

At the moment it is disguised though.

On the gun in the safe;

At night-time when I dwell within and the gun taken out and is ready-to-hand.

Only if I leave the place is the gun secured in the safe.

Your dogs sound the business man!

Not many dogs in Thailand with farang owners are that well trained, most are barkers and little more besides.

Good to hear your dogs aren't like that, you have them at military / police training level.

All you need to do now is have them not showing fear from gunshots and you are laughing

[JimsKnight]

lol @ BB gun in the safe... and then lol at the safe... yeah 3300 THB... thats gonna secure your valuables!

It's better than nothing. Kinda like saying 'You should own a super-bike or nothing instead of a scooter.' Well the man without a scooter isn't going very far at all.

The bb gun has been upgraded to about 18 ft pounds pressure (in the UK the legal limit is 6 Ft pounds).

I don't expect your brain to know what that means but basically if you stand in front of me at about 10 - 30 ft away you are going to end up with 6mm (metal) bbs going through you at high-velocity. The magazine takes about 30 bbs which can be rapidly fired (semi-auto). You are going to be either maimed or dead if you try anything.

Guess what? It will secure my valuables.

Besides most likely if you get robbed... it is by the local BiB. (or their friends). My advice... rent a safe at the bank.

Oh <deleted> with your bs. You haven't a clue but love to post garbage. I expected better from a senior member of TV but then again...

Also if you want to fix something and dont want it to disappear get the chemical tabs (epoxy) not the plastic ones...

I rent and need to remove it when I move on...

See bold.

[JimsKnight]

Ill tell you guys the method I use. This is cheap and effective.

First buy the Largest / Heaviest safe that you can Afford / Have room for.

After you have fixed it in which ever manner available to you, then go out and buy Enough Lead Bars or Powdered Lead to fill up the unused portion of the safe.

Essentially you can make a 90 Kilo safe weigh 250 Kilo's very easily and still have plenty of room to put your valuables inside.

The bigger the safe is the harder it is for burglars to carry it away unnoticed, and once you get past the 200 Kilo weight it is very difficult to lift without a small crane.

300 Kilo's of Lead is quite cheap and very Compact.

That really is a "no brainer" after you mention it. Very good idea if thought is given to ample floor support. I would have only one concern, the delivery. If the wrong people (even simply local gossipers) see that BIG safe being delivered assumptions will be made that your valuables must be equally big. Any suggestions on having it delivered discreetly?

What comes to mind is not purchasing locally and having it delivered (covered up) during a sure to be quite daytime hour as under nightfall would draw more attention even with less visibility.

Good point. However:

I delivered it myself from the shop! With NO address being given to the seller

[DumFarang]

lol @ BB gun in the safe... and then lol at the safe... yeah 3300 THB... thats gonna secure your valuables!

It's better than nothing. Kinda like saying 'You should own a super-bike or nothing instead of a scooter.' Well the man without a scooter isn't going very far at all.

The bb gun has been upgraded to about 18 ft pounds pressure (in the UK the legal limit is 6 Ft pounds).

I don't expect your brain to know what that means but basically if you stand in front of me at about 10 - 30 ft away you are going to end up with 6mm (metal) bbs going through you at high-velocity. The magazine takes about 30 bbs which can be rapidly fired (semi-auto). You are going to be either maimed or dead if you try anything.

Guess what? It will secure my valuables.

Besides most likely if you get robbed... it is by the local BiB. (or their friends). My advice... rent a safe at the bank.

Oh <deleted> with your bs. You haven't a clue but love to post garbage. I expected better from a senior member of TV but then again...

Also if you want to fix something and dont want it to disappear get the chemical tabs (epoxy) not the plastic ones...

I rent and need to remove it when I move on...

See bold.

Please share where you got a bb gun like that and procured metal bb's. I only ever see the plastic ones around. If it was purchased in Thailand did the instructions state the ft. pounds of pressure? I assume you must have to put a gas cartridge into it.

[doglover]

Good point. However:

I delivered it myself from the shop! With NO address being given to the seller

Well yes of course you did but you bought a little playschool safe that someone could have delivered on a bicycle . I was referring to a BIG proper safe. Good point with no address to the seller though. For a BIG safe one is still going to need help getting it in the house......

Edited March 12, 2011 by doglover

[Spoonman]

going through you at high-velocity.

what sorta velocity are we talkin ??

[Beardog]

Quote: All you need to do now is have them not showing fear from gunshots and you are laughing

Unfortunately no one or nothing beats the deadly art of ching ching. At least we would hear our friend being wasted before the heat arrives 60 seconds away & the would be perps would still have find us to shoot . I hunted for many years & anyone that is active with a gun knows it takes a lot of practice to hit an object not at close range unless your a marksman or an assassin......or have a 1in the chamber & 6 below shotgun.When we got robbed it was a fake 45 cal.Unfortunately they shut the lights after crowning me in the head with a cheap Chinese frying pan & I was almost able to bust some ribs on 2 of them till the gunman leved it at my chest & cut the lights. No more problems since 4 of 5 are serving 11 year sentences.

I have blades that are very sharp but a dead hero isn't very happening. I don't think I would pull any bb gun on someone if the recognize it they may force the person to use it & then you would find out if the outside kamoies have a real piece. A few $1000 is better than death or the reoccurring 50,000 charge for killing a komoie.

Back on topic you could put a floor safe under the tiles & have it concealed with a lift of tile that is seamless & would most likely pass over a Komoies search. They aren't to bright!

Especially if your renting, an angle grinder & about 10 discs cut the area desired & make a box the size of the tile & make a lid of the same tile & carpet the to the tile a welcome mat kind of rug making sure to blend in a broader area. Even Lan's post of a book safe most likely would work.The Kamoies never touched the books I have. I always liked platinum over gold. the thieves took the gold & left the platinum thinking it was silver.

[JimsKnight]

going through you at high-velocity.

what sorta velocity are we talkin ??

Enough to go through the kind of clothing worn in the tropics and the flesh underneath.

[Spoonman]

going through you at high-velocity.

what sorta velocity are we talkin ??

Enough to go through the kind of clothing worn in the tropics and the flesh underneath.

So you don't actually know then ?

[DumFarang]

going through you at high-velocity.

what sorta velocity are we talkin ??

Enough to go through the kind of clothing worn in the tropics and the flesh underneath.

So you don't actually know then ?

Dude. Are you actually asking about the velocity, seriously? Let it go, the guy probably doesn't have a lab suited to testing projectile speeds. Better yet, submit it to Mythbusters with the claim that it could seriously injure or potentially kill someone. They'll figure out the velocity and everything, and they'll make sure they get a bb through a skull too, one way or another.

[Spoonman]

Dude. Are you actually asking about the velocity, seriously? Let it go, the guy probably doesn't have a lab suited to testing projectile speeds. Better yet, submit it to Mythbusters with the claim that it could seriously injure or potentially kill someone. They'll figure out the velocity and everything, and they'll make sure they get a bb through a skull too, one way or another.

Dude, seriously if someone is keen on their guns they would know these things, it has been upgraded to 18ft pounds of pressure so assume he might know.

For what its worth my Hi-Capa 5.1 air pistol has a velocity of up to 300fps, it can be increased though by using green gas but that would require the change of the recoil spring, hammer spring, and install a hi-flow valve.

[DumFarang]

Dude. Are you actually asking about the velocity, seriously? Let it go, the guy probably doesn't have a lab suited to testing projectile speeds. Better yet, submit it to Mythbusters with the claim that it could seriously injure or potentially kill someone. They'll figure out the velocity and everything, and they'll make sure they get a bb through a skull too, one way or another.

Dude, seriously if someone is keen on their guns they would know these things, it has been upgraded to 18ft pounds of pressure so assume he might know.

For what its worth my Hi-Capa 5.1 air pistol has a velocity of up to 300fps, it can be increased though by using green gas but that would require the change of the recoil spring, hammer spring, and install a hi-flow valve.

If you're that into your mechanical blow guns how come you can't calculate it with the ft. pounds of pressure? It looks like enough info to me, but then again I don't really care.

[msg362]

I agree, the 4 plastic plugs is a waste of time, might as well just leave it sitting on the floor and save the damage that would be done levering off the wall with a decent crow bar.

4 plastic plugs are (let me say this slowly for you) E x p a n d i n g r a w p l u g s. With screw bolts inside they E X P A N D are strong enough to resist attack from an opportunist thai or farang.

With a HEAVY pry bar, which in conjunction with a sledgehammer you'd have to destroy the wall itself. Now you've just made noise noise and more noise.

What breezes about on an internet forum and what really cuts it in real life are two different things.

But when it comes to the crunch it doesn't go down like that, so the internet keyboard know-it-alls keep dreaming their illusions and the other people keep things solid and realistic rather than bleating about it, we do it and show it up.

You can't be serious, this is a joke right?

You offer about 1 " ( 25 mm) rawlplugs into a typical house wall made of cavity brick and claim you need a crowbar to prise it off? Do you have fairies at the bottom of your garden too??

I've gone down the same route, but have a safe weighing i don't know what ( four men found it difficult to lift to instal) internal steel protection and an alarm system. more expensive, but I suspect safer

You can''t cheapskate on security.

Edited March 13, 2011 by msg362

[JimsKnight]

I agree, the 4 plastic plugs is a waste of time, might as well just leave it sitting on the floor and save the damage that would be done levering off the wall with a decent crow bar.

4 plastic plugs are (let me say this slowly for you) E x p a n d i n g r a w p l u g s. With screw bolts inside they E X P A N D are strong enough to resist attack from an opportunist thai or farang.

With a HEAVY pry bar, which in conjunction with a sledgehammer you'd have to destroy the wall itself. Now you've just made noise noise and more noise.

What breezes about on an internet forum and what really cuts it in real life are two different things.

But when it comes to the crunch it doesn't go down like that, so the internet keyboard know-it-alls keep dreaming their illusions and the other people keep things solid and realistic rather than bleating about it, we do it and show it up.

You can't be serious, this is a joke right?

You offer about 1 " ( 25 mm) rawlplugs into a typical house wall made of cavity brick and claim you need a crowbar to prise it off? Do you have fairies at the bottom of your garden too??

I've gone down the same route, but have a safe weighing i don't know what ( four men found it difficult to lift to instal) internal steel protection and an alarm system. more expensive, but I suspect safer

You can''t cheapskate on security.

You are dreaming pal, I tell you what, how about you conduct a Youtube experiment at attempting to remove a safe from the wall with a crowbar that's been installed correctly. Stop with the internet wise-guy attitude it's getting seriously old.

Unless you are built like a man-mountain forget with the pry bar.

Thai's I doubt could pry it off easily. Even then, like I keep saying the thieves where I am are opportunist's and don't carry anything more than the clothes they wear.

[travelmann]

Well it loooks woefully inadequate to me and you stuck it in the wrong position Id have moved it right up to the pillar then bolted it to that or even right thru it out the other side also and the floor, bolts are too small and a crowbar would have the lot off in seconds.

[bbradsby]

From reading the thread, the OP has a different security design criteria from many: he isn't the owner of the premises, isn't worried about serious security, just from casual opportunists without tools - no criticism on his programme here.

But for what it's worth, the plastic plugs will deform under pretty low force, I'm too busy to calc it out, and the hollow-core lightweight concrete block (I assume thats what is meant by 'breeze block') will also fail at a rather low threshold. If the wall is Thai brick infil, chalk would be a harder substrate. It's useless.

For those interested in a higher level of security and who don't mind collateral damage to finishes: use a really heavy safe, not 'carry-able' by several mere mortals, and a minimum of four 15mm diameter epoxy anchors embedded 8cm into the [non-post-tensioned!!!] concrete floor slab and two into a concrete or solid Q-Con concrete block wall behind the safe.

Then your biggest risk will be safe's key/combination management, and if the wife decides to re-arrange the furniture.

[jackr]

Op, why the need to attack everyone who has an opinion, especially those offering advice? You posted the topic remember, so expect feedback.

Fact is, rawl plugs just will not cut it no matter what the manufacturer says. They're easy to drag out the wall with a claw hammer, so with your setup a crowbar will be able to inch them out. At least do yourself a favour and replace then with dynabolts, which are literally a few baht a piece:

Noticed you also haven't used washers, so bung some penny washers in there:

with spring washers on top

Still not great but a lot better than what you have.

Guessing my post probably won't be to your liking but at least others may benefit in future.

[ZoltarTheGreat]

dam_n !!

3 pages just to complain about this guy installig a safe???/

JEEZ !!!!

- Zoltar

[Artisi]

dam_n !!

3 pages just to complain about this guy installig a safe???/

JEEZ !!!!

- Zoltar

I think it has become an attitude problem - not the safe fixture method.

[bbradsby]

The thread's become pretty useful for safe installation at various levels of security. Now who could share info on who has the best prices on quality safes? Alibaba site has lots, but I have no idea on the quality.

[Beardog]

The thread's become pretty useful for safe installation at various levels of security. Now who could share info on who has the best prices on quality safes? Alibaba site has lots, but I have no idea on the quality.

If you use Alibaba be very careful who you buy from they just were written in the AP reporting agencies around the world that they have uncovered massive amounts of fraud cases with the company. I looked into buying chain link fencing from one of their sites & this year the company that I inquired with is now facing the court system for fraud.There are many local safe companies that you actually can see what your buying without taking a chance from buying from a empty warehouse & no product after you pay.That & they usually want you to buy a minimum amount. By the time you pay shipping if you do receive it- you will probably see the same safe from one of the local Indian shops for much less. Sorry I don't have a recommendation for one up here.

[Beardog]

The thread's become pretty useful for safe installation at various levels of security. Now who could share info on who has the best prices on quality safes? Alibaba site has lots, but I have no idea on the quality.

If you use Alibaba be very careful who you buy from they just were written in the AP reporting agencies around the world that they have uncovered massive amounts of fraud cases with the company. I looked into buying chain link fencing from one of their sites & this year the company that I inquired with is now facing the court system for fraud.There are many local safe companies that you actually can see what your buying without taking a chance from buying from a empty warehouse & no product after you pay.That & they usually want you to buy a minimum amount. By the time you pay shipping if you do receive it- you will probably see the same safe from one of the local Indian shops for much less. Sorry I don't have a recommendation for one up here.