Group Blasts Bangkok's Super Skywalk Project

[webfact]

Group blasts skywalk project

By The Nation

The Anti-Global Warming Association (AGWA) yesterday expressed opposition to the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's Super Skywalk project.

Last week, the BMA announced that it would spend Bt15.2 billion on the project that would provide a 50-kilometre combined stretch of elevated walkways. The project is to be completed by next year.

The AGWA yesterday questioned why the construction of the Super Skywalk would cost more than Bt300 million per kilometre.

"The elevated walkway by the Skytrain project costs just Bt58.82 million a kilometre," it pointed out.

The AGWA also expressed concerns that the Super Skywalk project would constitute visual pollution.

It said the improvement of roadside walkways would be a better choice.

"There's no sound reason to take away the roadside walkway from millions of Bangkok residents just for the benefits of some 10,000 street vendors," it said.

According to the AGWA, the BMA might have violated the Constitution in its Super Skywalk plan. The BMA plans to link the elevated walkway to many shopping centres that agreed to pay for the links.

"There is no environmental impact assessment for the Super Skywalk project, either," the AGWA said.

The AGWA said it would petition the Central Administrative Court if the BMA did not review or scrap the project.

-- The Nation 2011-03-02

[roiethome]

So they would prefer to spend the money making sidewalks better for the motorcycles to roar along.........sensible choice !

[endure]

A VERY misleading thread title! Sounds as though someone's planted explosives.

[animatic]

Safe pedestrian walkways are bad from global warming.

I have found no instance of elevated walkways in Bangkok,

that also did not have sidewalks underneath it.

300 mil vs 58 mil... who exactly is profiting this round on mega projects, ah yes, the usual suspects, regardless of political inclination.

It the middlemen change, but the gross profiteering will go to the same pockets in general kow tow at it's finest.

[harrycallahan]

"There is no environmental impact assessment for the Super Skywalk project, either," the AGWA said.

I hope people like that don't become too popular in Thailand.

[KunKoi]

Stupid idea

[Nisa]

Hopefully they print the response in terms of the cost difference.

[Ajaan]

A VERY misleading thread title! Sounds as though someone's planted explosives.

Haha...อย่าคิดมากน่ะ! That interpretation of the thread title didn't occur to me at all...??

[Siddy]

I actually like the "visual pollution" of BTS.

I thought the 50km sky walk sounded good. I think everyone likes the smaller skywalk we have now

Obviously no one wants to be completely surrounded by a concrete sky, but a bit looks good, real modern city.

Oh... and as if bkk doesn't NEED it !~!~!~!

[Ajaan]

The criticism of the walkways is misguided...I think it's a great idea, and I for one would totally utilize it...especially in the winter months, I would love being able to walk from Mo Chit to Siam Square on a walkway!! Who knows, it might make some progress in fighting growing obesity among Thais from all that KFC, haha.

And, c'mon, "spend it on sidewalks"?! Why? As an earlier poster pointed out, so motorcycles can have a smoother ride as they terrorize pedestrians? Or so even more vendors can clog the sidewalks? (actually, the ubiquitous vendors is something I *love* about Bangkok, and miss when I'm in the West...but it would be nice to have covered, elevated vendor-free walkways...)

[rwhoov]

I would think that anything that would enable people to walk to their destination instead of taking a taxi would be beneficial to global warming. Anyone who has used the Skywalk from Siam BTS station to Chid Lom station would know how much more enjoyable that is to competing with steet vendors, beggars, motorcycles, light poles, broken tiles, phone booths, etc. The seemingly inflated cost is the only objection that bears merit, in my opinion.

[repoulin]

I always thought they needed this. Some portions of the skytrain offer a walkway down the road that is free of motorbikes, hawkers, and soi dogs. For those who live in the city that are trying to get somewhere will know that the sidewalks are not the safest or most efficient way to travel. I hope they complete this, but whether it will be free of corruption is another story. An increase from 60 Million to 300 Million? Wonder who is pocketing on this one.

[Jawnie]

While I think the concept is good, Bkk missed the opportunity to make these improvements at the street level a long time ago. As quaint and enjoyable as the street vendors may be, there are simply too many now. Bkk also has lost the opportunity to regulate their numbers. Regarding more elevated concrete structures, it appears to me that Bkk planners always overbuild these structures by approximately 2xs -they are twice as big as need be. This is especially true for the new City Line stations - they are massively overbuilt. Of course, the contractors love this and so do the designers and engineers because they make tons of money they shouldn't be. So I expect to see the new, and massively over-built but poorly designed, sections of skywalk. They are really just for pedestrians, improvements at the street level would be best, then. But, Bkk officials just can't grasp that concept - they've abandoned the street - with encouragement from those who will profit from the design and construction.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Jawnie

[thaihome]

From the map in the other thread it appears that much of the proposed skywalk does not follow the existing BTS system and would require the installation of a new structural support system. That would be a massive undertaking and I can see how the price would easily increase 5 fold. The areas under the BTS would be relatively easy, but once you go outside that the obstacles and cost become huge. To compare it to a short walkway that did not require any additional supports is not exactly fair.

TH

Edited March 2, 2011 by Maestro
Added link to map.

[pisico]

So they would prefer to spend the money making sidewalks better for the motorcycles to roar along.........sensible choice !

Hey! It's not their money. So, who cares?

I lived in Brazil for 5 years. Vendors were blocking the wide sidewalks of Copacabana, Ipanema, Leblon and even downtown Rio de Janeiro. Adding to that were the beggars and generation of "homeless" living and sleeping and procreating 24-7 on those sidewalks. After decades of that urban blight a group of merchants hired goons from the favelas and every morning 7 to 10 of those homeless, city urchins or vendors would show up stabbed and/or shot on the sands of the beaches ringing the city. There was a clamor by the human rights groups all over the world. Brazilians were silent on the issue. They were aware that such status quo was the result of a vacuum created by the government over decades of corruption and inaction.

Not that I advocate such vigilante-like approach to a problem that has been allowed to attain such proportions. But there is a parallel drawn between two diametrically different countries and cultures with a similar urban problem.

What affects Bangkok and the rest of the country is a massive lack of a proactive attitude regarding urban problems. Why not copy the Singapore model, for instance?

Why change traditions and have to accept the reality that the only laws enforced are those regulating Farangs? To enforce the law, to rid the city of urban decay such as soy dogs, encroachment of public thoroughfares by vendors that pay tea money to the police and store owners alike... that would be something that a responsible government would do. However, admitting that will imply that they have not done their job for over a century. Spending zillions on a new project will make them look soooo good! It is a way of saving face. A favorite hobby and passion in these latitudes.

[jfchandler]

Exactly who and/or what is the Anti Global Warming group that's the subject of the article? Of course, the article doesn't explain that.

Nor does the article make any explanation of what the proposed elevated walkway project has to do with the group's apparent interest in global warming.

I like the idea of the elevated walkway project. But when I read the first news of it a week or so ago, I did wonder if there had been any kind of environmental impact report/assessment done on the project. There was no mention of any. I'd presume something would be required for a project of that magnitude.

I also agree with TH's comment above... The cost of doing this kind of project as an add-on to existing or future SkyTrain routes ought to be far less than the cost of building an elevated walkway from scratch in areas where there's no existing structures in place. The two different situations would be entirely different kinds (cost and magnitude) of projects.

[orosee]

300 mil vs 58 mil... remember the old skywalk is hanging from the existing BTS skytrain tracks... so the difference of 242 mil is to build new skytrain tracks to hang the new walkway from The figures should be about right...

[AleG]

300 mil vs 58 mil... remember the old skywalk is hanging from the existing BTS skytrain tracks... so the difference of 242 mil is to build new skytrain tracks to hang the new walkway from The figures should be about right...

Actually the walkways under the Skytrain tracks don't just hang from them, they have their own structural supports going to the ground.

[thaihome]

In order for an environmental impact assessment (EIA) to be done a project has to have had a significant amount of preliminary design done. After that is done, the project is publicly announced and an EIA is part of the path forward. It is obvious this project is in the very early stages. For this group to criticize the project at this stage because an EIA has no been done yet is ridiculous.

TH

[BigBikeBKK]

"Anti-Global Warming Association"

Who does this organization actually represent? What is their real agenda? What do elevated walkways have to do with Global Warming?!

The elevated walkways that already exist are a fantastic way to avoid street level pollution- I look forward to their expansion.

[Bagwan]

IFor this group to criticize the project at this stage because an EIA has no been done yet is ridiculous.

TH

No it isn't. Please remember where you are.

Can some guru confirm what happens to the stench and stink produced by internal combustion engines? I assume that it doesn't stay at ground level but being lighter than air rises up into the atmosphere. Wouldn't further restricting the dispersal of these noxious fumes exacerbate an already serious problem?

[ihightower]

I always thought they needed this. Some portions of the skytrain offer a walkway down the road that is free of motorbikes, hawkers, and soi dogs. For those who live in the city that are trying to get somewhere will know that the sidewalks are not the safest or most efficient way to travel. I hope they complete this, but whether it will be free of corruption is another story. An increase from 60 Million to 300 Million? Wonder who is pocketing on this one.

Let us NOT forget... 58.82 Million (BTS Skywalk) and 300 Million (Super Skywalk) are Per Km Prices.

And, the Skywalk is 50Km.

so.. using the same prices of (BTS Skywalk).. .the Super Skywalk.. should actually cost about 2.941 Billion Bhat.

While what is stated for expenditure for Super Skywalk is 15.2Billion.

*So, the correct question is who is pocketing 12.259 Billion of the Skywalk Project.*

Edited March 2, 2011 by metisdead
Font resized.

[Kilgore Trout]

So they would prefer to spend the money making sidewalks better for the motorcycles to roar along.........sensible choice !

Well that problem would be easy to solve, just make it illegal (from my understanding it is NOT illegal to ride a motorcycle on the sidewalk). but then again would that really solve it, needs enforcement too

[yoshiwara]

There are plenty of aerial walkways in Hong Kong and they work very well to help ease congestion. Ground level pavements cannot easily be extended if at all. The group criticising the Bangkok walkway are very silly. The only issue of concern, this being Thailand, is the one of contractual approval and costing, otherwise a sound initiative.

[exbelg]

guess same people always grab and grab and grab more money... use the money for education or other usefull projects and just erase the street vendors, but there lays the problem, they pay the BIB to grease the wheels

[Kilgore Trout]

I would think that anything that would enable people to walk to their destination instead of taking a taxi would be beneficial to global warming. Anyone who has used the Skywalk from Siam BTS station to Chid Lom station would know how much more enjoyable that is to competing with steet vendors, beggars, motorcycles, light poles, broken tiles, phone booths, etc. The seemingly inflated cost is the only objection that bears merit, in my opinion.

Hmm, keep in mind that the walkway will be more polluted than the street, at least where the skytrain is overhead trapping all the gasses at about a little above head level. Brilliant

[Jawnie]

"Anti-Global Warming Association"

Who does this organization actually represent? What is their real agenda? What do elevated walkways have to do with Global Warming?!

The elevated walkways that already exist are a fantastic way to avoid street level pollution- I look forward to their expansion.

This project is a perfect example and metaphor for how the government and the developer elites are literally abandoning everyone else to the streets. A great way to get away from the street-level pollution? Great for whom, may I ask? Great for the politicians and developers because they become more and more inter-dependent for their money and careers. Great for the middle and upper class shoppers because they can literally "rise above" and step over the lower classes who are abandoned to the pollution and chaos on the street below. I mean, what about dealing with the pollution on the street level? Your solution is to simply create a separate place for the elites to totally avoid the masses and vendors. What's up with that? This will just create more choked, polluted streets while allowing people with money to avoid it. It also gives politicians something to congratulate themselves for while partying with their developer cronies using the public's money earned through huge and expensive public works projects.

[thaihome]

So, the correct question is who is pocketing 12.259 Billion of the Skywalk Project.

Most likely it will paid to the contractor who has to design the stand alone supports, arrange the construction right away, drive the piles probably some 30+ meters deep, build the scaffolding and forms, pour the concrete and install the steel structure for the parts of the skywalk that do not follow the existing BTS lines.

[harrry]

Wonder if it will be wheelchair accessible....after you get up the stairs to it.

[RickBradford]

Exactly who and/or what is the Anti Global Warming group that's the subject of the article?

The Anti (or Stop) Global Warming Association is the personal mouthpiece of a former student activist and now lawyer called Srisuwan Janya, who has made 'the environment' his speciality, especially where this puts him in opposition to big industrial companies.

He has been involved in the discussions about pollution at Map Ta Phut, oil exploration in the Gulf of Thailand, biomass power plants and so on. His objections to this scheme seem to be two-fold:

1) The 1992 Environment Act. requires an environmental impact assessment (EIA) to be made

2) He estimates that the price should be around one-fifth of that quoted -- ie 60 million Bt per kilometer, not 300 million.