Thailand Must Show It Is Not An Obstacle To Peace

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BURNING ISSUE

Thailand must show it is not an obstacle to peace

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

Cambodia took a step ahead of Thailand on the implementation of the United Nations Security Council and Asean plan to end the border conflict between the two neighbours when Phnom Penh quickly agreed to the terms of reference for Indonesian observers.

Bangkok might not like having third parties involved in the conflict. But as long as it sits on international forums, it has an obligation to follow the outcomes of those forums' meetings - otherwise it could lose international credibility.

Cambodia managed to get the border conflict in front of international forums at the UN and Asean shortly after skirmishes erupted over the area adjacent to Preah Vihear temple in early February. Thailand's preferred solution, to end the conflict bilaterally, has not yet worked.

The clash was the worst in decades, killing some 10 people, including three civilians, and damaging many properties along the border.

The UN Security Council suggested the two neighbours establish a permanent ceasefire at the border. It supported a role for Asean in implementing the plan.

Indonesia, as current chair of Asean, called an informal meeting in Jakarta on February 22 and agreed to send observers to assess the situation and monitor the ceasefire.

Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said in Jakarta that he had sent the terms of reference (TOR) for the observer mission to the two conflicting parties. Cambodia has already responded positively but Thailand has so far greeted the TOR with silence.

Natalegawa said he would send 30 Indonesian observers, placing 15 on each side of the border near the temple. A five-member advance team from Jakarta reportedly visited the area on the Cambodian side to collect information and prepare for the observers' mission.

It was not clear where the observers wanted to go. The Thai army does not want them to access the so-called "overlapping area" of 4.6 square kilometres, which both sides are claiming. Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha has said he wants to restrict the Indonesians to areas outside the disputed area.

It is understood that Bangkok wanted more time for concerned agencies to discuss the TOR. But Prayuth said he also wanted the TOR to be discussed in a meeting of the military-run Thailand-Cambodia General Border Committee (GBC). The GBC is co-chaired by defence ministers of the two countries. Cambodia will host its next meeting in June.

Asean's plan is not free from time constraints. Diplomatic sources said Indonesia wanted to dispatch its observers to the Thailand-Cambodia border as early as possible, perhaps by early March.

It is impossible to wait until the GBC has considered the modality of observation in June, as long as large numbers of troops are still at the conflict areas near Preah Vihear. Another clash could erupt at any time. If there is more violence, Asean could be blamed for its failure to activate a regional mechanism to control the situation. And if that happened, the conflict would be sent back to the UN.

Moreover, Indonesia will hold the Asean chairmanship only until the end of this year. The next chair will be Cambodia. Things will get more complicated if the conflict drags on to Cambodia's turn, as the chair of Asean is also a party in the conflict. Phnom Penh could ask Indonesia to carry on, but it would be better if the conflict could be settled before this happened.

The burden is now on Thailand to prove it is not an obstacle to the peace plan.

-- The Nation 2011-03-03

[dumball]

 So , who now shows themselves as the unruly , spoilt brat in this situation, who wants to ' Take their ball away because it appears they cannot win ? 

 Shame on Thailand who have difficulty solving problems in their own country , look at all of the fiascos going on in Thailand at this present time that it would appear no one can/wants to take responsibility for . Are they afraid the world may open a pandoras box if the observers are given the free rein they should be allowed in this situation with Cambodia ? It is obvious the Cambodians are more peace loving and want an end to all of the hatred and pettiness Thailand is showing by a bunch of incompetant politicians who are more concerned with money grabbing than executing any dialogue to solve issues of importance .

 No Thailand , you are not and never will be the be all and end all of matters that concern the global village , stop being retrograde by constantly looking over your shoulder and come into todays world , you may be pleasantly surprised at the gains that can be made for all of your citizens , young and old alike .

[asiawatcher]

I am still unclear as to what any observer can do - if anything! But petulant Thailand remains pouting its lower lip in the face of international condemnation. Pay of the land owners you have been taxing on the Thai side and assist a relocation - 4.6sq kms - big deal in your land bank of 513,000 sq kilometres and give your extremely poor neighbour the ruins. Create a border post there for access from your side and allow border runs for expats for a days visit - nothing lost at all. In fact may just save a few lives!

[sirchai]

Natalegawa said he would send 30 Indonesian observers, placing 15 on each side of the border near the temple.

Hope they''ll survive only eating Somtham and drinking Lao Kao. Not mentioning the bullets around. Welcome to Thailand...... :jap:

[animatic]

Thailand must show it is not an obstacle to peace

Hmmm, I wonder if this is even possible at this point.

[Thai at Heart]

I somehow think that if this article was re-printed in the Thai press, the vast majority of readers would simply shrug their shoulders and mumble "taammai?".

[mkawish]

So , who now shows themselves as the unruly , spoilt brat in this situation, who wants to ' Take their ball away because it appears they cannot win ?

Shame on Thailand who have difficulty solving problems in their own country , look at all of the fiascos going on in Thailand at this present time that it would appear no one can/wants to take responsibility for . Are they afraid the world may open a pandoras box if the observers are given the free rein they should be allowed in this situation with Cambodia ? It is obvious the Cambodians are more peace loving and want an end to all of the hatred and pettiness Thailand is showing by a bunch of incompetant politicians who are more concerned with money grabbing than executing any dialogue to solve issues of importance .

No Thailand , you are not and never will be the be all and end all of matters that concern the global village , stop being retrograde by constantly looking over your shoulder and come into todays world , you may be pleasantly surprised at the gains that can be made for all of your citizens , young and old alike .

This is where so many farang are dead wrong in giving a global glance over sort of political comments....

Assuming and thinking at the same time that just reading what is portrayed here in Thaivisa and other printed media would provide sufficient facts for a farang to judge which country is correct and proper and what not....

You are dead wrong....

What do you know about the Thai attitudes toward Camb aggression into Thai territorial agreed upon long ago with the French colonized govt around 1904 or so....?

Do you read up on those facts before opening your mouth gunning at everything that you do not agree with.... or that you assume as incorrect and improper....?

CONFOUND IT....

The last court ruling appears to award the temple and only the temple to the Camb....

The court itself intentionally refused to rule in favor of the Camb the land surrounding the temple itself....

Subsequently, if my memory is correct, the French came up with a new but unauthorized nor signed for by agreeing parties--new map, aptly named 1:200,000....

The Camb is trying hard to have the reinstatement of the acceptance of the 1:200,000 French originated map.... but the Thai is turning a cold shoulder since the adverse ruling, in reference to the inclusion of this 1:200,000 map....

Now.... fast forward to 2011....

Which country is more right than the other....?

Pray tell....

Why should Thailand surrender the ground around the temple to Camb or any other nations, be it the Asean or the UN....

The Camb is entitled to the temple only.... and nothing more.... according to last court ruling....

Should Thailand now.... allow other nations, such as French et al, to come in and help manage her territorial.... without her consent....?

Pray tell.... who ought to be the fair judge....?

The French is already over her head in concession in gas and oil forthcoming drilling in the Gulf of Siam, concession granted to her by the Camb HuSen et al....

The Japanese is also granted concession rights by the same Camb group....

The American and Chinese also stand by ever ready to pick the spoils....

Now, the question remains, who could be the impartial judge....? and

Should Thailand really be asked to give up her territorial for the benefits of world peace or whatever.... even with compensation of any kind....?

AGAINST HER PEOPLE WISHES.... ?

the govt ministers might be ready to jump on the band wagon for personal gains as it has already been demonstrated by PM Apisit and his major ministers....

HOWEVER, THE ORDINARY THAI ON THE STREET SEEM TO WANT THE GOVT TO MOVE OUT THE CAMB AND PHYSICALLY RECLAIM THOSE TERRITORIAL.... ONE WAY OR THE OTHER....

Do the ordinary Thai have the rights to demand the current Thai govt to act on the ordinary people behalf....? :jap:

At this point in time.... it appears by all evidence that the Thai PM, Apisit and his ministers are all ever ready to, for some unknown and dubious reasons, sheepishly and obediently hand over Thai territorial to the Camb, the JBC, the UN and others.... in the name of peace....

When that day ever materializes.... I would hate to see blood on the street....

I hope I am dead wrong in all counts though.... :jap:

The Thai PM, Apisit, stated publicly last year that.... if he ever gives away any of Thai territorial.... he would not befitting to be PM and

moreover, he should not be a Thai and as a traitor, he would have no place to hang his head in Thai soil....

just wondering, would the good and gracious England take him back.... or allow him in as a political refugee....

[lovelomsak]

So , who now shows themselves as the unruly , spoilt brat in this situation, who wants to ' Take their ball away because it appears they cannot win ?

Shame on Thailand who have difficulty solving problems in their own country , look at all of the fiascos going on in Thailand at this present time that it would appear no one can/wants to take responsibility for . Are they afraid the world may open a pandoras box if the observers are given the free rein they should be allowed in this situation with Cambodia ? It is obvious the Cambodians are more peace loving and want an end to all of the hatred and pettiness Thailand is showing by a bunch of incompetant politicians who are more concerned with money grabbing than executing any dialogue to solve issues of importance .

No Thailand , you are not and never will be the be all and end all of matters that concern the global village , stop being retrograde by constantly looking over your shoulder and come into todays world , you may be pleasantly surprised at the gains that can be made for all of your citizens , young and old alike .

This is where so many farang are dead wrong in giving a global glance over sort of political comments....

Assuming and thinking at the same time that just reading what is portrayed here in Thaivisa and other printed media would provide sufficient facts for a farang to judge which country is correct and proper and what not....

You are dead wrong....

What do you know about the Thai attitudes toward Camb aggression into Thai territorial agreed upon long ago with the French colonized govt around 1904 or so....?

Do you read up on those facts before opening your mouth gunning at everything that you do not agree with.... or that you assume as incorrect and improper....?

CONFOUND IT....

The last court ruling appears to award the temple and only the temple to the Camb....

The court itself intentionally refused to rule in favor of the Camb the land surrounding the temple itself....

Subsequently, if my memory is correct, the French came up with a new but unauthorized nor signed for by agreeing parties--new map, aptly named 1:200,000....

The Camb is trying hard to have the reinstatement of the acceptance of the 1:200,000 French originated map.... but the Thai is turning a cold shoulder since the adverse ruling, in reference to the inclusion of this 1:200,000 map....

Now.... fast forward to 2011....

Which country is more right than the other....?

Pray tell....

Why should Thailand surrender the ground around the temple to Camb or any other nations, be it the Asean or the UN....

The Camb is entitled to the temple only.... and nothing more.... according to last court ruling....

Should Thailand now.... allow other nations, such as French et al, to come in and help manage her territorial.... without her consent....?

Pray tell.... who ought to be the fair judge....?

The French is already over her head in concession in gas and oil forthcoming drilling in the Gulf of Siam, concession granted to her by the Camb HuSen et al....

The Japanese is also granted concession rights by the same Camb group....

The American and Chinese also stand by ever ready to pick the spoils....

Now, the question remains, who could be the impartial judge....? and

Should Thailand really be asked to give up her territorial for the benefits of world peace or whatever.... even with compensation of any kind....?

AGAINST HER PEOPLE WISHES.... ?

the govt ministers might be ready to jump on the band wagon for personal gains as it has already been demonstrated by PM Apisit and his major ministers....

HOWEVER, THE ORDINARY THAI ON THE STREET SEEM TO WANT THE GOVT TO MOVE OUT THE CAMB AND PHYSICALLY RECLAIM THOSE TERRITORIAL.... ONE WAY OR THE OTHER....

Do the ordinary Thai have the rights to demand the current Thai govt to act on the ordinary people behalf....? :jap:

At this point in time.... it appears by all evidence that the Thai PM, Apisit and his ministers are all ever ready to, for some unknown and dubious reasons, sheepishly and obediently hand over Thai territorial to the Camb, the JBC, the UN and others.... in the name of peace....

When that day ever materializes.... I would hate to see blood on the street....

I hope I am dead wrong in all counts though.... :jap:

The Thai PM, Apisit, stated publicly last year that.... if he ever gives away any of Thai territorial.... he would not befitting to be PM and

moreover, he should not be a Thai and as a traitor, he would have no place to hang his head in Thai soil....

just wondering, would the good and gracious England take him back.... or allow him in as a political refugee....

You really have hard time accepting reality huh.

[calbears]

Military attaches from 13 countries visited the Preah Vihear temple. They dared the thai army to shoot them. And, nothing happened.... wonder if the Cambodian soldiers will ever take any threats from the Thai army seriously.

The Thai army, after realizing that the Cambodian gvt ignored their objection over the visit, sent a letter to the cambodian army asking to have five of their military personnels to walk with the foreign military attaches. The letter was also ignored. Hence, enjoy...

[mkawish]

Military attaches from 13 countries visited the Preah Vihear temple. They dared the thai army to shoot them. And, nothing happened.... wonder if the Cambodian soldiers will ever take any threats from the Thai army seriously.

The Thai army, after realizing that the Cambodian gvt ignored their objection over the visit, sent a letter to the cambodian army asking to have five of their military personnels to walk with the foreign military attaches. The letter was also ignored. Hence, enjoy...

It only goes to show.... the current state of a very weak and undecided Thai govt....

As majority of the Thai people now becoming increasingly uneasy over the possibility of Thailand might have already lost her territorial rights to the Camb neighbor.... who aggressed and encroached upon Thai territorial since the onslaught of the Camb civilians some thirty years ago....

because the Thai govt has not done anything to express their territorial rights over the land once upon a time the UN and the International Red Cross used to accommodate the fleeing Camb refugees....

The Camb encroachers now has the possibility of becoming the rightful land owners of the parcels of land they once encroached upon as refugee and were fed and clothed by the graciousness of the Thai people and govt....

Would there be more violence in different forms intended upon Apisit and his ministers.... because of their immense inaction and indifference to the warnings from so many different people and level of academics both in Thailand and overseas loyalists.....?

Edited March 4, 2011 by mkawish

[Steely Dan]

Military attaches from 13 countries visited the Preah Vihear temple. They dared the thai army to shoot them. And, nothing happened.... wonder if the Cambodian soldiers will ever take any threats from the Thai army seriously.

The Thai army, after realizing that the Cambodian gvt ignored their objection over the visit, sent a letter to the cambodian army asking to have five of their military personnels to walk with the foreign military attaches. The letter was also ignored. Hence, enjoy...

It's difficult to go off in a huff taking your ball with you if the ball doesn't belong to you. The reality as seen from outside Thailand is evidently completely invisible to some of the Trumans who live here, but the amount of politically motivated hot air they have generated make it almost impossible for Thailand to wind it's neck back in without losing face - It's like watching a car crash in slow motion this.

[lovelomsak]

What is really sad is Cambodia was the only country in the area that could effect Thailand and their growth and ability to maintain a strong baht and it appeared they were willing to let Thailand go ahead and make their strong play for economic power in Asia. Thailand has now with the help of some recent rallies that are related to the Cambodia issue placed itself in a position where economic growth will slow and the baht is about to take a beating. To bad I was hoping for saner minds to keep prosperity in place. Looks like India will do well from all this though.

[mkawish]

What is really sad is Cambodia was the only country in the area that could effect Thailand and their growth and ability to maintain a strong baht and it appeared they were willing to let Thailand go ahead and make their strong play for economic power in Asia. Thailand has now with the help of some recent rallies that are related to the Cambodia issue placed itself in a position where economic growth will slow and the baht is about to take a beating. To bad I was hoping for saner minds to keep prosperity in place. Looks like India will do well from all this though.

The only part that I personally wish that would materialize, out off everything you rambled on, is...

the baht is about to take a beating....

Contrary to your hope and prayer....

numerous others would welcome.... the beating of the baht.... to perhaps 75 baht to 1 euro.... :jap:

In all seriousness.... it requires the changing of the guards--the current Thai govt.... to bring the fraudsters, the PM, the ministers, the heads of all govt divisions and all others involved in deceptive and fraudulent practices.... to face justices UNDER THE LAWS....

then if found guilty.... confiscation of all properties involved.... and imposition of long prison terms.... for every guilty individual.... starting from the PM on down....

This is a measure to bring Thailand to guaranteed future of prosperity for all farmers and working classes alike, reds or yellows or blues....

May it come to pass soon.... and let the bath strengthens itself.... which it will.... whence then Thailand will more equally distribute its wealth among all categories of her citizen.... A Walter Mitty long shot dream.... perhaps.... :jap:

Edited March 5, 2011 by mkawish

[Steely Dan]

What is really sad is Cambodia was the only country in the area that could effect Thailand and their growth and ability to maintain a strong baht and it appeared they were willing to let Thailand go ahead and make their strong play for economic power in Asia. Thailand has now with the help of some recent rallies that are related to the Cambodia issue placed itself in a position where economic growth will slow and the baht is about to take a beating. To bad I was hoping for saner minds to keep prosperity in place. Looks like India will do well from all this though.

The only part that I personally wish that would materialize, out off everything you rambled on, is...

the baht is about to take a beating....

Contrary to your hope and prayer....

numerous others would welcome.... the beating of the baht.... to perhaps 75 baht to 1 euro.... :jap:

In all seriousness.... it requires the changing of the guards--the current Thai govt.... to bring the fraudsters, the PM, the ministers, the heads of all govt divisions and all others involved in deceptive and fraudulent practices.... to face justices UNDER THE LAWS....

then if found guilty.... confiscation of all properties involved.... and imposition of long prison terms.... for every guilty individual.... starting from the PM on down....

This is a measure to bring Thailand to guaranteed future of prosperity for all farmers and working classes alike, reds or yellows or blues....

May it come to pass soon.... and let the bath strengthens itself.... which it will.... whence then Thailand will more equally distribute its wealth among all categories of her citizen.... A Walter Mitty long shot dream.... perhaps.... :jap:

You really ought to turn ASTV off and look at other news sources. As for clearing out the current government to get rid of corruption, I think we've been here before as 18 coups suggest, and when does it ever lead to clean government? I almost wish the PAD leadership was in charge so they could be shot at from all angles whilst trying to clear the streets of protesters.

[mkawish]

What is really sad is Cambodia was the only country in the area that could effect Thailand and their growth and ability to maintain a strong baht and it appeared they were willing to let Thailand go ahead and make their strong play for economic power in Asia. Thailand has now with the help of some recent rallies that are related to the Cambodia issue placed itself in a position where economic growth will slow and the baht is about to take a beating. To bad I was hoping for saner minds to keep prosperity in place. Looks like India will do well from all this though.

The only part that I personally wish that would materialize, out off everything you rambled on, is...

the baht is about to take a beating....

Contrary to your hope and prayer....

numerous others would welcome.... the beating of the baht.... to perhaps 75 baht to 1 euro.... :jap:

In all seriousness.... it requires the changing of the guards--the current Thai govt.... to bring the fraudsters, the PM, the ministers, the heads of all govt divisions and all others involved in deceptive and fraudulent practices.... to face justices UNDER THE LAWS....

then if found guilty.... confiscation of all properties involved.... and imposition of long prison terms.... for every guilty individual.... starting from the PM on down....

This is a measure to bring Thailand to guaranteed future of prosperity for all farmers and working classes alike, reds or yellows or blues....

May it come to pass soon.... and let the bath strengthens itself.... which it will.... whence then Thailand will more equally distribute its wealth among all categories of her citizen.... A Walter Mitty long shot dream.... perhaps.... :jap:

You really ought to turn ASTV off and look at other news sources. As for clearing out the current government to get rid of corruption, I think we've been here before as 18 coups suggest, and when does it ever lead to clean government? I almost wish the PAD leadership was in charge so they could be shot at from all angles whilst trying to clear the streets of protesters.

Steely Dan....

I never figure.... there is another farang here.... who would see eye to eye with the majority of those Thai polled several months ago that....

if they, those Thai polled, could live a comfortable life.... they do not mind corruption among the govt officials....

I always thought that since most of us are from a little more advanced countries, such as, Aussie, Euro, England and US.... that we would detest deceptive and fraudulent practices.... in any place and by any one.... including ourselves....

Steely Dan.... you ought to look at yourself a little closer.... are you really personally in favor of.... seeing and allowing and accepting deception and fraud.... happening under your nose....? regardless of geographical location.... whether....

it is happening in our own household, our neighborhood, our community or our country....

Steely Dan, really, would you just turn your eyes elsewhere whence something improper happening.... or

are you one of those who always think that.... well it has nothing to do with me.... why bother?

Well, inasmuch as I am not your keeper or otherwise.... You surely do have the right to choose who you wanna be....

whether in your own country or here in Thailand....

Really, as far as I am concerned.... if a person can not, nor will not, stand up for what is right.... he/she really is truly less than a human.... sorry.... :jap:

But then.... who am I.... to say anything about anything that has anything to do with anybody else.... except my own lowly self....

[Oberkommando]

Thailand is the only obstacle to peace. I doubt Cambodia cares about the disputed land, after all they had agreed to cede it to Thailand if Thailand accepted the UNESCO ruling in favour of Cambodia for Preah Vihear, and this was all done and dusted over two years ago.

Unfortunately the fascists in the PAD will not accept any compromise whatsoever so here we are with an armed stand off on the border and everybody loses; the traders, visitors to the temple, everybody.

History is merely repeating itself. Thailand tried in 1956 to capture the temple using their military forces, and had to be removed by the international community in 1962. They have a long history of aggression against Cambodia along the border over the last 100 years.

I will say just this one last thing; If you know history and the Khmer mentality you will understand that Cambodia will never, ever accept Thai sovereignty over Preah Vihear.

[whybother]

Thailand is the only obstacle to peace. I doubt Cambodia cares about the disputed land, after all they had agreed to cede it to Thailand if Thailand accepted the UNESCO ruling in favour of Cambodia for Preah Vihear, and this was all done and dusted over two years ago.

<snip>

"after all they had agreed to cede it to Thailand"

Was that ever reported anywhere else?