France to recognize Palestine in September, Palestinian official says

[Ulysses G.]

People only look for what they want to see on this subject. It pays for one to try to be a little objective from time to time.

Every single time you have posted on this subject, it has been anti-Israel and usually excusing the Islamic terrorists. Maybe you should take your own advice that you give out so freely.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

You may wanna check the birthplaces and origins of the signatories to spot the first problem here.

The Illuminati no doubt.

[BKKarim]

You may wanna check the birthplaces and origins of the signatories to spot the first problem here.

The Illuminati no doubt.

What you mean?

[BKKarim]

Israel was not declared a Jewish state by the United Nations. Israel, or its founding father declared themselves Israel to a Jewish state.

You may wanna check the birthplaces and origins of the signatories to spot the first problem here.

Thanks for the correction, but you are not exactly right either.

The resolution recommended the termination of the British Mandate for Palestine and the partition of the territory into two states, one Jewish and one Arab,

wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

In 1948 Israel declared itself as an independent nation which was immediately recognized by the major superpowers at the time, Russia and the US.

Now 60 years later there are 7.5 million Israelis, 75 percent are Jews. For there to peace anytime in future, both the Israelis and the Palestinians are going to need to be minimally satisfied; otherwise, no peace.

Where is the Arab state from that declaration?

Again, did you check the country of origin, birthplaces of Israel founding fathers? Where did these people came from?

Did you check how far away Israel is from Russia or the USA and how close the Arab states are located that were opposed this declaration?

What is now Israel,with 75 percent are Jews as you say, how many percent of the population were Arabs or Palestinians there 60, 70, 80 years ago?

To quote yourself:"If you are going to look at history, look at ALL of the history"

Can you spot the problem that was there right from the beginning?

Edited March 6, 2011 by BKKarim

[BKKarim]

People only look for what they want to see on this subject. It pays for one to try to be a little objective from time to time.

Every single time you have posted on this subject, it has been anti-Israel and usually excusing the Islamic terrorists. Maybe you should take your own advice that you give out so freely.

Is to welcome the decision of France to recognize Palestine now an excuse of Islamic terrorists?

[Jingthing]

To quote yourself:"If you are going to look at history, look at ALL of the history"

Can you spot the problem that was there right from the beginning?

Yes, I can spot it. Blame it on Hitler. There never would have been recognition of Israel as a Jewish state if it wasn't for the holocaust. Yes, Zionism existed as an idealistic mostly very leftist movement for a very long time before 1948, but the holocaust created the political environment for international recognition.

Now what? Do you reckon those millions of Jews, the vast majority SABRAS now born in Israel, are going to move somewhere else? I am sure Poland would be thrilled. You want to rehash 1948, fine, its a valid academic argument. But today we have a real conflict with real people on both sides, and both sides have legitimate rights in how this turns out.

[BKKarim]

what the Palestinians need is getting back the land which was stolen from them and stopping those who steal each and every day more land.

I'll take it as read that you also support the return of property taken from the estimated 800,000 to 1,000,000 Jews who were forced to flee from arab Countries in the aftermath of the 1967 war.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_lands

a quote from your source:

The assertion that Jewish emigrants from Arab lands should be considered refugees has received mixed reactions from various quarters.

Iraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: "I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee". Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: "We are not refugees. [some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations". And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: "I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists."

Historian Tom Segev stated: "Deciding to emigrate to Israel was often a very personal decision. It was based on the particular circumstances of the individual’s life. They were not all poor, or ‘dwellers in dark caves and smoking pits.’ Nor were they always subject to persecution, repression or discrimination in their native lands. They emigrated for a variety of reasons, depending on the country, the time, the community, and the person."

Btw. do you remember who started that 1967 war you mentioned?

[Ulysses G.]

To quote yourself:"If you are going to look at history, look at ALL of the history"

If you go back before 1900 Jews dominated Jerusalem and there were very few Arabs outside of it in the area that became Israel. There were illegal Arab immigrants migrating there to work for them, but they were not indigenous to the area. As a number of "Palestinian" Arabs have admitted there was really no such thing as "Palestinians" before 1967 when they started calling themselves that for political reasons.

And of course if we go back even further in history,..

Edited March 6, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Btw. do you remember who started that 1967 war you mentioned?

You mean when Arab armies surrounded Israel and declared that they intended to totally obliterate every single Jew?

[Jingthing]

Palestinian supporters ask is it right that Palestinians have to suffer for the sins of European fascism? No, it is not fair. That's one reason Israel does need to bend a lot more than they have to try to make a peace, but the other side needs to realize, fair or not, Israelis aren't going anywhere unless you kill them, and if you kill them, prepare for the consequences.

I don't really blame the Arabs for attacking in the Jews in the 1940s, and also later. But I think it's about time the Arab world accepts the reality that the Jewish state of Israel now really does exist, and just negotiate more favorable borders, security, and autonomy, and get on with raising the next generation of both sides in peace. Impossible? Probably.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Jingthing

[kuffki]

Operative word " Palestinian official said" France officials have not made any statements. So all the Israel bashes need to sit back down and wait for France to make the statement.

Also not sure how some even consider Israel stealing land from Palestine when land did not belong to Palestine in the first place

And lastly since so many support the statement, i can not help but wonder how you find it happy and acceptable when Palestine does not recognize Israel.So really unsure how some of you have arrived at the conclusion that the problem will be solved.

[BKKarim]

To quote yourself:"If you are going to look at history, look at ALL of the history"

Can you spot the problem that was there right from the beginning?

Yes, I can spot it. Blame it on Hitler. There never would have been recognition of Israel as a Jewish state if it wasn't for the holocaust. Yes, Zionism existed as an idealistic mostly very leftist movement for a very long time before 1948, but the holocaust created the political environment for international recognition.

Now what? Do you reckon those millions of Jews, the vast majority SABRAS now born in Israel, are going to move somewhere else? I am sure Poland would be thrilled. You want to rehash 1948, fine, its a valid academic argument. But today we have a real conflict with real people on both sides, and both sides have legitimate rights in how this turns out.

Now what? You came up with the history and 1947 UN plan. Often quoted to legitimize Israel (and often ignored that it was a 2-state solution)

You came also up with the hint to look at ALL parts of the history.

And yes, there would have probably never been a strong reason to create Israel if there weren't these states in Europe that wanted to get rid of the Jews. And i mean not only Hitler. The 47 plan to establish a Jewish state in Palestine has its parallels in the Madagascar plan. To send the Jews somewhere else, resettle them to a new place was still popular after Hitler was dead and the nazi horror over. Fatally ignoring the fact that some other people already lived there, Arab Palestinians, in the place that was designed for that Jewish state.

Zionism a leftist movement? Leftist - what is that?

The 1975 United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 determined "that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination."

unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/761C1063530766A7052566A2005B74D1

Anyway you are right that nowadays its an issue that both sides must work on and find a solution. Something that other here who chose to speak on behalf of Israel totally ignore.

[kuffki]

what the Palestinians need is getting back the land which was stolen from them and stopping those who steal each and every day more land.

+1

Problem spells USrAel!

Tiger

+2,

And that's what it's all about,

Israel has developed too fast since ww2, and now need to expand even more,

and steal another Countries Land,to do so!

And not to mention too much, the Huge Untapped Oil Wells off the Gaza Strip!

and who stopped Palestinians from expanding? especially with all that oil and gas

Oh thats right, they have been too busy making the demands, firing bombs and sending suicide bombers and creating more terrorists groups rather then check their own backyard.

Perhaps, Israel should take care of the oil and gas with Israel money but give all the profits to Hamas to purchase more rockets., better yet how about all the Palestinians just sit back and relax while Israel takes care of them,since all the taxes collect from Arab workers and given to Palestinian Authority is not good enough.

[kuffki]

To quote yourself:"If you are going to look at history, look at ALL of the history"

Can you spot the problem that was there right from the beginning?

Yes, I can spot it. Blame it on Hitler. There never would have been recognition of Israel as a Jewish state if it wasn't for the holocaust. Yes, Zionism existed as an idealistic mostly very leftist movement for a very long time before 1948, but the holocaust created the political environment for international recognition.

Now what? Do you reckon those millions of Jews, the vast majority SABRAS now born in Israel, are going to move somewhere else? I am sure Poland would be thrilled. You want to rehash 1948, fine, its a valid academic argument. But today we have a real conflict with real people on both sides, and both sides have legitimate rights in how this turns out.

Now what? You came up with the history and 1947 UN plan. Often quoted to legitimize Israel (and often ignored that it was a 2-state solution)

You came also up with the hint to look at ALL parts of the history.

And yes, there would have probably never been a strong reason to create Israel if there weren't these states in Europe that wanted to get rid of the Jews. And i mean not only Hitler. The 47 plan to establish a Jewish state in Palestine has its parallels in the Madagascar plan. To send the Jews somewhere else, resettle them to a new place was still popular after Hitler was dead and the nazi horror over. Fatally ignoring the fact that some other people already lived there, Arab Palestinians, in the place that was designed for that Jewish state.

Zionism a leftist movement? Leftist - what is that?

The 1975 United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 determined "that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination."

unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/761C1063530766A7052566A2005B74D1

Anyway you are right that nowadays its an issue that both sides must work on and find a solution. Something that other here who chose to speak on behalf of Israel totally ignore.

something very simple and basic you seem to have a problem understanding.

For anything to move forward, Palestine need to recognize Israel and until that moment-THERE IS NOTHING TO DISCUSS-FULL STOP.

Here is some facts of history for you

When the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon they got Hizbullah and 40,000 rockets and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas and 20,000 rockets

[Ulysses G.]

The 1975 United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 determined "that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination."

Aren't you the one telling people to check just who signed what?

There are 20 Arab countries and fifty-six Muslim countries whom can be counted on to consistently support anti-Israel resolutions.

[BKKarim]

But I think it's about time the Arab world accepts the reality that the Jewish state of Israel now really does exist, and just negotiate more favorable borders, security, and autonomy, and get on with raising the next generation of both sides in peace. Impossible? Probably.

Its about time for who to accept and recognize something?

from the OP:

After the peace talks were suspended on Oct. 2 due to Israel's rejection to halt settlement activities, the Palestinians threatened to use other diplomatic options, mainly asking the world's recognition of a Palestinian state.

On February 18, the UN Security Council held a vote on a resolution to condemn Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem area. Fourteen Security Council members voted in favor of the resolution but the U.S. voted against it. The U.S. vetoed the resolution as it has the power to block draft resolutions due to being one of the five permanent council members.

...

Palestine demanded a stop to settlement construction in the disputed East Jerusalem and West Bank area as a key element for continuing peace talks with Israel. However, the Jewish country continued construction despite the condemnation from the international community.

[Ulysses G.]

Now what? You came up with the history and 1947 UN plan. Often quoted to legitimize Israel (and often ignored that it was a 2-state solution)

A 2-state solution that the Palestinian Arabs rejected - as they have every peace deal ever offered.

[kuffki]

But I think it's about time the Arab world accepts the reality that the Jewish state of Israel now really does exist, and just negotiate more favorable borders, security, and autonomy, and get on with raising the next generation of both sides in peace. Impossible? Probably.

Its about time for who to accept and recognize something?

from the OP:

After the peace talks were suspended on Oct. 2 due to Israel's rejection to halt settlement activities, the Palestinians threatened to use other diplomatic options, mainly asking the world's recognition of a Palestinian state.

On February 18, the UN Security Council held a vote on a resolution to condemn Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem area. Fourteen Security Council members voted in favor of the resolution but the U.S. voted against it. The U.S. vetoed the resolution as it has the power to block draft resolutions due to being one of the five permanent council members.

...

Palestine demanded a stop to settlement construction in the disputed East Jerusalem and West Bank area as a key element for continuing peace talks with Israel. However, the Jewish country continued construction despite the condemnation from the international community.

Considering that there are over 1 000 000 arabs/palestinians living and working in Israel, where do you propose everyone lives? Or should Israel expel the 1 000 000, i am sure that would create some space and put a stop to building of settlements.

PS. International community has been condemning terrorist attacks on Israel for decades, yet that did not seem to bother that very same Palestinian government

[BKKarim]

The 1975 United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 determined "that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination."

Aren't you the one telling people to check just who signed what?

There are 20 Arab countries and fifty-six Muslim countries whom can be counted on to consistently support anti-Israel resolutions.

Yes, i recommended to check the birthplaces of Israel founding fathers. Did you do that?

And don't forget, first it were the Antisemites from Europe and other places in the world who voted 1947 in the UN for the establishment of some Jewish state in the Middle East, with no other purpose then to have an easy solution to get rid of the Jews and send them over there.

[kuffki]

In Palestine there is NO respect for human rights, NO business climates and NO end to pervasive corruption. Leaders want it this way because young people and others will increasingly turn to radicalism and violence. Having the chaos makes it easy for them(Leaders) to fill their pockets with money and spread the hate.

Hammas leaders don't offer a positive vision or give young people meaningful ways to contribute, as a result many many fill the vacuum again with nothing but hate.

As a result of Hammas policy's extremist elements, terrorist groups and others who would prey on desperation and poverty are already out there appealing for allegiance and competing for influence, while again showing no interest in common people.

Hammas and its allies has no reason to recognize Israel because it benefits them in many ways, and the fact that people of Palestine are suffering is no concern to them.

Perhaps when people of Palestine clean out their own oppressors(Hammas, Jihad and all other extremist groups) then the whole process can and will move forward.

Whatever happened to 1 billion dollars Arafat had in his bank accounts, where did it all go? and keep in mind that money was not his hard earned cash, it was help from International community for the people, which he simply kept.

[Ulysses G.]

it were the Antisemites from Europe and other places in the world who voted 1947 in the UN for the establishment of some Jewish state in the Middle East

Well, they are there now. They have developed a barren desert into a modern economy and they aren't leaving.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[BKKarim]

Btw. do you remember who started that 1967 war you mentioned?

You mean when Arab armies surrounded Israel and declared that they intended to totally obliterate every single Jew?

Simple. Israel started that war.

Israel attacked Egypt first, occupied the Gaza Strip and the whole Sinai Peninsula from Egypt and the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan and annexed the Golan Heights. So who is the aggressor here?

[Ulysses G.]

Simple. The Arab armies that surrounded Israel and declared that they intended to totally obliterate every single Jew were the aggressors - if a bully threatens someone with a knife, they would be foolish not to strike before he can use it. However, you skipped a few other wars before and afterwards for some strange reason.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Steely Dan]

what the Palestinians need is getting back the land which was stolen from them and stopping those who steal each and every day more land.

I'll take it as read that you also support the return of property taken from the estimated 800,000 to 1,000,000 Jews who were forced to flee from arab Countries in the aftermath of the 1967 war.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_lands

a quote from your source:

The assertion that Jewish emigrants from Arab lands should be considered refugees has received mixed reactions from various quarters.

Iraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: "I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee". Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: "We are not refugees. [some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations". And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: "I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists."

Historian Tom Segev stated: "Deciding to emigrate to Israel was often a very personal decision. It was based on the particular circumstances of the individual’s life. They were not all poor, or ‘dwellers in dark caves and smoking pits.’ Nor were they always subject to persecution, repression or discrimination in their native lands. They emigrated for a variety of reasons, depending on the country, the time, the community, and the person."

Btw. do you remember who started that 1967 war you mentioned?

Nice of you to selectively quote. I suppose you wish to infer that every Jew left arab lands due to ideological Zionism, many may, many were kicked out in the aftermath of the repeated drubbings arab armies took from Israel 1967 was one example and after 1973 most African Countries broke off diplomatic relations with Israel, many Jews left under juress and the confiscated property was estimated at $300 billion and a land area four times the size of Israel, but that would be selectively quoting.

As for who started the war in 1967, I suggest you look at the build up to it including Nasser blockading the Suez canal and the build up of armies ready to attack. In case it escaped your attention arab Countries started the 48 and 73 wars as well.

[Ulysses G.]

As for who started the war in 1967, I suggest you look at the build up to it including Nasser blockading the Suez canal and the build up of armies ready to attack. In case it escaped your attention arab Countries started the 48 and 73 wars as well.

Of course. Any legitimate history book mentions all of this.

[BKKarim]

Simple. The Arab armies that surrounded Israel and declared that they intended to totally obliterate every single Jew were the aggressors - if a bully threatens someone with a knife, they would be foolish not to strike before he can use it. However, you skipped a few other wars before and afterwards for some strange reason.

Propaganda lies.

Simple. If you are acting in self-defense you don't occupy territory of other states to exploit oil fields in Sinai or take over East Jerusalem for some 'sentimental' reasons based on the states religion.

I am skipping no wars. With the 1967 war someone else came up and i only asked this person the question if he knows who started that war.

[BKKarim]

As for who started the war in 1967, I suggest you look at the build up to it including Nasser blockading the Suez canal and the build up of armies ready to attack. In case it escaped your attention arab Countries started the 48 and 73 wars as well.

Of course. Any legitimate history book mentions all of this.

48?

If some blokes from Poland or Russia or from where ever they came from (did you checked that?) declare some new state in the middle east, in an Arab neighborhood, a new state with an own army with soldiers who came also from far away, don't be surprised if that neighbors see it as an act of aggression and give of course a military answer to it.

Did something change since then?

The OP speak of occupation and settlements by Israel in Palestinian territory that don't stop despite the condemnation from the international community.

And some people with an agenda turn that into an anti-Arab propaganda.

[kuffki]

As for who started the war in 1967, I suggest you look at the build up to it including Nasser blockading the Suez canal and the build up of armies ready to attack. In case it escaped your attention arab Countries started the 48 and 73 wars as well.

Of course. Any legitimate history book mentions all of this.

48?

If some blokes from Poland or Russia or from where ever they came from (did you checked that?) declare some new state in the middle east, in an Arab neighborhood, a new state with an own army with soldiers who came also from far away, don't be surprised if that neighbors see it as an act of aggression and give of course a military answer to it.

Did something change since then?

The OP speak of occupation and settlements by Israel in Palestinian territory that don't stop despite the condemnation from the international community.

And some people with an agenda turn that into an anti-Arab propaganda.

Have a read of full facts here, including all the legal quotes and documents http://www.sixdaywar...uk/timeline.htm

Also look at some maps and half of Palestine did not belong to Palestine but belonged to Egypt, Syria and Jordan

Edited March 6, 2011 by kuffki

[kuffki]

As for who started the war in 1967, I suggest you look at the build up to it including Nasser blockading the Suez canal and the build up of armies ready to attack. In case it escaped your attention arab Countries started the 48 and 73 wars as well.

Of course. Any legitimate history book mentions all of this.

48?

If some blokes from Poland or Russia or from where ever they came from (did you checked that?) declare some new state in the middle east, in an Arab neighborhood, a new state with an own army with soldiers who came also from far away, don't be surprised if that neighbors see it as an act of aggression and give of course a military answer to it.

Did something change since then?

The OP speak of occupation and settlements by Israel in Palestinian territory that don't stop despite the condemnation from the international community.

And some people with an agenda turn that into an anti-Arab propaganda.

Read some history again http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/Jerusalem1948arabisraeliwar.asp

[BKKarim]

You are referring to sources that can easily identified as pure one-sided propaganda and nothing more.