Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

[think_too_mut]

READINGS FOR REACTORS - SOURCE TEPCO

Shows radiation reading from reactor 2 is 12.4 Sv/h

12 times more than is required to give a worker immediate radiation sickness.

Of course. Where else you find high radiation other than in the reactor itself and in it's housing?

That does not feel, only instruments can measure it, outside the plant.

And that from the plant that has whitstood 9 richters (about 5 times stronger than designed for) and a 15m tsunami (designed for 3.8m, doubled to 5.7m 10 years ago).

[Chopperboy]

Not a single person was exposed to radiation that poses health risk.

Says who your nuclear regulators/ government?? - they're hardly credible!

Those few that had their feet soaked in radioactive water were dismissed from hospital next morning.

What like other workers to get cancer some time latter??

And the worker operating the reactor pressure relief valve who was overcome by radiation? and the female workers with an internal radiation greater than a CAT scan machine, whats happening to them?[/size]

(one that spectacularly blew it's top off when (intentionaly released) steam expoloded. You mean hydrogen

That will finish by Sunday and next batch of workers will the enter to install new cooling system. No point to install it, as the reactor's leaking and no human can get near it to repair it!

Edited May 6, 2011 by Chopperboy

[Chopperboy]

Of course. Where else you find high radiation other than in the reactor itself and in it's housing? The containment vessels have been breached so they no longer providing the biological protection they're designed to.

That does not feel, only instruments can measure it, outside the plant.

RADIATION - by the time you could feel it you'd be dead, or as good as!

And that from the plant that has whitstood 9 richters (about 5 times stronger than designed for) and a 15m tsunami (designed for 3.8m, doubled to 5.7m 10 years ago). Tepco was warned that there were bigger tsumami's in the past there, they just chose to ignore it - this is well documented on this forum already.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Chopperboy

[think_too_mut]

Of course. Where else you find high radiation other than in the reactor itself and in it's housing? The containment vessels have been breached so they no longer providing the biological protection they're designed to.

That does not feel, only instruments can measure it, outside the plant.

RADIATION - by the time you could feel it you'd be dead, or as good as!

And that from the plant that has whitstood 9 richters (about 5 times stronger than designed for) and a 15m tsunami (designed for 3.8m, doubled to 5.7m 10 years ago). Tepco was warned that there were bigger tsumami's in the past there, they just chose to ignore it - this is well documented on this forum already.

Sorry buddy, the facts are:

zero people dead at Fukushima from nuclear causes;

zero people died from (intentionally vented out) steam explosions;

zero people received radiation that could present health hazard to them;

radiation outside the plant fence is tollerable by laws;

japanese government, under media pressure and hysteria, has done even more precaution measures than needed

Now those who launch the news like "Obama Bin Laden Dead" have been reporting on Fukushima since March 11th.

That is what you have dragged to this topic. Utter rubbish.

[Chopperboy]

Sorry buddy, the facts are:

zero people dead at Fukushima from nuclear causes

Next you'll be telling us no one died as a result of radiation exposure at Chernobyl, Nagasaki or Hiroshima!

[katana]

I live in Japan, have not left like 240,000 other foreigners had. (fly-jin)

To put this radiation in a perspective, if one put up a tent next to the Fukushima plant fence, for his lifetime he would absorb the same amount of radioation flight attendants/pilots get in 6 months.

The whole nonsense from the press is just that: scaremongering rubbish.

There's a big difference between external exposure to background radiation from rocks, air travel etc to that when radioactive particles are ingested or inhaled and come into intimate contact with cells in the body.

[Crushdepth]

zero people dead at Fukushima from nuclear causes;

Yet.

When can people go back to their homes in the evacuation zone? Sell the food they grow? Sleep at night not worrying about what the consequences will be?Body count does not equal impact.

[Chopperboy]

Air Photograph of reactor #3

[think_too_mut]

zero people dead at Fukushima from nuclear causes;

Yet.

When can people go back to their homes in the evacuation zone? Sell the food they grow? Sleep at night not worrying about what the consequences will be?Body count does not equal impact.

Now, that victims of Fukushima are zero, you are asking what?

I am surprised with this question. Japanese government is buidling new houses (temporary, up to 2 years, free) for the people who have lost everything.

As 165 thousand evacuees move as the lodging becomes built and available, the last ones would be those who want to return to their homes. Into the (now) evacuated zone. Quite likely, they would be able to return to their (still standing) homes within 6 months.

Not that some danger will have passed, the danger has never been there, we have the government measures and disciplined Japanese who obey. Many are angry.

[Chopperboy]

Not that some danger will have passed, the danger has never been there, we have the government measures and disciplined Japanese who obey. Many are angry.

It's the Colonel Saito mentality

Edited May 6, 2011 by Chopperboy

[think_too_mut]

Air Photograph of reactor #3

It's far less damage than it looks. Although visualy spectacular and media attractive.

Nobody was hurt (lest died) from that.

[think_too_mut]

Not that some danger will have passed, the danger has never been there, we have the government measures and disciplined Japanese who obey. Many are angry.

It's the Colonel Saito mentality

You think Japan is Haiti? Or mickeymouse response to Katrina that itself was basically a simple flood.

No looting, no gang wars, nothing had happened in the wake of the quake and the tsunami.

These days the area hit by the earthquake and tsunami are refusing any more donations, they don't know what to do with all the wares, unwanted, unasked, just dumped on them.

[Chopperboy]

It's far less damage than it looks. Although visualy spectacular and media attractive.

Nobody was hurt (lest died) from that.

11 people (4 TEPCO employees, 3 subcontractor employees and 4 Japanese civil defense workers) were injured due to the explosion at unit 3 on 14 March

Latest list of casualties from Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/123762/20110317/iaea-fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-plant-japan-nuclear-caualties.htm

[ronz28]

As these stinking Japanese Nuclear plants contaminate the ocean fish, air and milk in Japan, the U.S. and elsewhere its about time to see Japan is taking a little proactive action and shutting down other Nuclear plants that will further contaminate the earth when hit by earthquakes and/or Tsunamis. Maybe the U.S. and the rest of the world will do the same. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/05/06/business/AP-AS-Japan-Earthquake.html?_r=1

It angers me to see the baloney posted here that no one is harmed by this mess. You must have your head in the sand.

Edited May 6, 2011 by ronz28

[think_too_mut]

It's far less damage than it looks. Although visualy spectacular and media attractive.

Nobody was hurt (lest died) from that.

11 people (4 TEPCO employees, 3 subcontractor employees and 4 Japanese civil defense workers) were injured due to the explosion at unit 3 on 14 March

You started with "many dead".

Now they are injured.

I say - nobody injured, nobody dead, nobody got health risk size od radiation.

Man, understand that nobody has came close to the reactors. Only yesterday, not before.

What are you doing now? Spreading junk that has no factual base.

Stop linking the FUD that is as informed as you are.

How is Obama Bin Laden?

[think_too_mut]

As these stinking Japanese Nuclear plants contaminate the ocean fish, air and milk in Japan, the U.S. and elsewhere its about time to see Japan is taking a little proactive action and shutting down other Nuclear plants that will further contaminate the earth when hit by earthquakes and/or Tsunamis. Maybe the U.S. and the rest of the world will do the same. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/05/06/business/AP-AS-Japan-Earthquake.html?_r=1

It angers me to see the baloney posted here that no one is harmed by this mess. You must have your head in the sand.

Poor victims of the hystery.

You are handing over the world to the tyrans of Saudi Arabia and similar. On a plate.

Your stupidity will ensure that you and our children shun off nuclear energy and make those Middle East dictators rich and richer. Their subjects should not be protesting, with people like you they should be dancing in the streets.

[Chopperboy]

Tepco starts flooding No. 1 reactor vessel

Nuclear fuel in core must be submerged by water to cool

Tepco on Friday started increasing the amount of water it is injecting into the No. 1 reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 power plant in hopes of providing stable cooling for the damaged nuclear fuel inside.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. plans to fill the reactor's primary containment vessel with enough water to submerge the fuel over the next 20 days or so, and start operating by June an air-cooling device it hopes will reduce the temperature of the water circulating around the reactor, company officials said.

Restoring the reactors' cooling systems, which were lost in the March 11 quake and tsunami, is vital to ending the nuclear crisis because its current emergency cooling measure, which requires that water be continually injected from outside, has created vast pools of highly radioactive water within the plant.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/nn20110506x1.html

Edited May 6, 2011 by Chopperboy

[pomeloseed]

Some types of poison cannot be seen and/or adversely affect people (and plants and other animals) later on - after initial exposure.

When there was a malathion scare in the Sacramento valley (a spray-on insecticide used by farmers), a government official drank a glass of water mixed with some malathion to allay peoples' fears.

In Lebanon, a man living in a garbage dump found some thick liquid in a barrel which appeared to him to be shampoo - so he used it to wash his hair. Months later, he found out it was a highly toxic chemical. He died a week after that.

The best way is to get knowledgeable, and get away from toxins as best as possible. That's why I reside as far away from Bkk as a person can be, and still be in Thailand (smog from big city). As much as possible, I grow my own food also. Nuclear fission by-products are man-made poison. Call me a 'tree hugger' if you want, but I want to be as far from nuclear radiation as humanly possible. And it offends me that Thai officials are still hell-bent on making Thailand go nuclear.

[think_too_mut]

has created vast pools of highly radioactive water within the plant.

That is what I am talking. Within the plant. Big deal. Where else?

[katana]

Tepco starts flooding No. 1 reactor vessel

Nuclear fuel in core must be submerged by water to cool

Tepco on Friday started increasing the amount of water it is injecting into the No. 1 reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 power plant in hopes of providing stable cooling for the damaged nuclear fuel inside.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. plans to fill the reactor's primary containment vessel with enough water to submerge the fuel over the next 20 days or so, and start operating by June an air-cooling device it hopes will reduce the temperature of the water circulating around the reactor, company officials said.

Restoring the reactors' cooling systems, which were lost in the March 11 quake and tsunami, is vital to ending the nuclear crisis because its current emergency cooling measure, which requires that water be continually injected from outside, has created vast pools of highly radioactive water within the plant.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/nn20110506x1.html

Wonder if they're continuously pumping put the heated up, contaminated water out to the sea?

[think_too_mut]

Tepco starts flooding No. 1 reactor vessel

Nuclear fuel in core must be submerged by water to cool

Tepco on Friday started increasing the amount of water it is injecting into the No. 1 reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 power plant in hopes of providing stable cooling for the damaged nuclear fuel inside.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. plans to fill the reactor's primary containment vessel with enough water to submerge the fuel over the next 20 days or so, and start operating by June an air-cooling device it hopes will reduce the temperature of the water circulating around the reactor, company officials said.

Restoring the reactors' cooling systems, which were lost in the March 11 quake and tsunami, is vital to ending the nuclear crisis because its current emergency cooling measure, which requires that water be continually injected from outside, has created vast pools of highly radioactive water within the plant.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/nn20110506x1.html

Wonder if they're continuously pumping put the heated up, contaminated water out to the sea?

No, that water was in the trenches (16m deep) and shafts containing pipelines. It had been pumped out into a reservoir. That water is firstly from the tsunami, including junk + the excess of what they forcefullly pumped (seawater) in the first week to cool down the reactors. Only small amounts of it could possibly come from the damaged vessels and it is not highly radioactive. For the cameras and hysteric CNN they even staged a spectacle involving helicopters who dumped useless water that spilled everywhere. That water has been removed to enable people to approach the environment and install the new cooling system.

Now they are pumping in the new water into the pressure vessel of the reactor 1 , just increased the flow from 6 to 8 tons an hour, until they reach 7.400 tons.

Edited May 6, 2011 by think_too_mut

[Organicpete]

Maybe the PM should have just consulted with think_too_mut and realised there was no problem...

Pete

http://www.bbc.co.uk...acific-13306358

Japan PM orders halt at Hamaoka nuclear plant

Scientists said the chances of a powerful quake striking the Hamaoka region was high

Japan's prime minister has told a power company to halt operations at another nuclear plant

due to fears an earthquake could trigger a new crisis.

Naoto Kan said three reactors at Hamaoka plant should be suspended until new safety measures were put in place.

Experts said the chances of a powerful quake hitting the area were high.

[think_too_mut]

Maybe the PM should have just consulted with think_too_mut and realised there was no problem...

Pete

http://www.bbc.co.uk...acific-13306358

Japan PM orders halt at Hamaoka nuclear plant

Scientists said the chances of a powerful quake striking the Hamaoka region was high

Japan's prime minister has told a power company to halt operations at another nuclear plant

due to fears an earthquake could trigger a new crisis.

Naoto Kan said three reactors at Hamaoka plant should be suspended until new safety measures were put in place.

Experts said the chances of a powerful quake hitting the area were high.

Nonsense.

He is exploiting the situation with Fukushima to gain points and remain in the saddle. The reason is "high chance of a major earthquake in 30 years". What 30 years? He is 6th PM in 5 years, where is he going to be in 30 years? Not even alive. As PM he will be happy to survive another 6 months.

The truth behind it is: that plant has same configuration as Fukushima. Power generators lay low and are susceptible to tsunami flooding and basically the same backup problem that Fukushima has experienced.

The plant has started making a construction to elevate the generators some 20m above the ground and that is in progress. What the PM has done - just declared it as his own decision. To the clueless, it sounds he is sincerely acknowledging some problem with the nukes and ensuring it does not happen again. What about another 58 nuclear plants in Japan? Anyone ordering them to shut down?

That Hamaoka nuke is near me, not only myself have raised that question the very 11th of March when Fukushima was damaged. 95% of Japanese population will swallow PM's story but anyway, he is irrelevant, owning what is already being done is not stopping the works.

Edit: "closure until safety measures are put in place" means: until the plant completes the construction that has already started without PM even knowing the plant existed. Now he will use that to declare he did it when they finish the work.

Edited May 6, 2011 by think_too_mut

[pomeloseed]

has created vast pools of highly radioactive water within the plant.

That is what I am talking. Within the plant. Big deal. Where else?

Perhaps no big deal for you, but big deal for others. Water is fluid. It doesn't stay in one place. It's also gaseous at times, and can spread far and wide, both as a fluid and as a gas. One day it's in a containment pod, the following month it could be wafting over Hawaii and falling on dairy herds as rain. The assessment reports we're hearing from officials are their valiant attempts to downplay problems as much as possible - similar to what think_too_mut does (btw, I like the handle). If Fukishima and gov't officials were car mechanics, and they had a car in their shop with blown carborator spewing flaming gas, they might report, "engine block warmer than average."

[think_too_mut]

has created vast pools of highly radioactive water within the plant.

That is what I am talking. Within the plant. Big deal. Where else?

Perhaps no big deal for you, but big deal for others. Water is fluid. It doesn't stay in one place. It's also gaseous at times, and can spread far and wide, both as a fluid and as a gas. One day it's in a containment pod, the following month it could be wafting over Hawaii and falling on dairy herds as rain. The assessment reports we're hearing from officials are their valiant attempts to downplay problems as much as possible - similar to what think_too_mut does (btw, I like the handle). If Fukishima and gov't officials were car mechanics, and they had a car in their shop with blown carborator spewing flaming gas, they might report, "engine block warmer than average."

Again, you can live in a tent next to the Fukushima plant and receive for your lifetime same radiation flight attendants/pilots receive in 6 months.

Where is you radiation, from water/gas/solid materials?

How clueless people find tings to be scared of, like animists worshiping secret powers of wild beasts.

[jackr]

Call me a 'tree hugger' if you want, but I want to be as far from nuclear radiation as humanly possible. And it offends me that Thai officials are still hell-bent on making Thailand go nuclear.

In that case, you'll need to move outside the universe. Every human everywhere is constantly bombarded by nuclear radiation and if you're really concerned, you'd be better off taking a ship to Thailand rather than fly. Btw, nuclear power stations do not emit harmful amounts of radiation by default. There are many hundreds around the world running just fine and the new generation are tickety-boo. No need to cite what's happening now as we all know a monster quake & tsunami caused Fuk' problems, while Chernobyl was an unauthorised experiment gone wrong.

[Organicpete]

Nonsense.

He is exploiting the situation with Fukushima to gain points and remain in the saddle.................

Comprehensive reply. Thankyou

Pete

[think_too_mut]

Nonsense.

He is exploiting the situation with Fukushima to gain points and remain in the saddle.................

Comprehensive reply. Thankyou Pete

I may apologize for saying "nonsense" without strict qualification what I meant: the nonsense is what the article suggests, that even Japanese are shutting down their nukes.

The PM is simply usinig (the initiative to build 20m high construction to house backup systems) of Hamaoka, started by the plant itself, without him knowing. Out of 58 nukes in Japan, I doubt he can tell more than 10-15 of them.

Harvesting the points that he needs after the public has grown mistrustfull about his handling of Fukushima. He is not wrong but is irrelevant. Except that he covers energy shortages caused (by the temporary closing, until the structure is built and used).

[think_too_mut]

Call me a 'tree hugger' if you want, but I want to be as far from nuclear radiation as humanly possible. And it offends me that Thai officials are still hell-bent on making Thailand go nuclear.

In that case, you'll need to move outside the universe. Every human everywhere is constantly bombarded by nuclear radiation and if you're really concerned, you'd be better off taking a ship to Thailand rather than fly. Btw, nuclear power stations do not emit harmful amounts of radiation by default. There are many hundreds around the world running just fine and the new generation are tickety-boo. No need to cite what's happening now as we all know a monster quake & tsunami caused Fuk' problems, while Chernobyl was an unauthorised experiment gone wrong.

If the nukes were allowed to operate at the same safety standards as the gas fired powerplants (400 times less and 400 times cheaper) the electricity from them would be so cheap that nobody would even bother metering it, let alone to charge for it.

When in BKK, our 2BR condo with 2 aircons would consuume about 2,500baht of electricity per month (aircons not alweays on, only at night). Imagine that 400 times cheaper? 50 satangs per month. Is there still that small change in circulation in Thai?

Tap water would be 30 times more expensive than electricity from the nukes.

That would be a negligent cost to ordinary Thais and the World as a whole.

Edited May 7, 2011 by think_too_mut

[Puschl]

Again, you can live in a tent next to the Fukushima plant and receive for your lifetime same radiation flight attendants/pilots receive in 6 months.

No you can't! Even in save environments, your exposure is 0.5 to 4 mSv/year, compared to 5 to 20 mSv/year for long-haul flight attendants (ICRP-recommended limit is 10mSv/year). Your life should be pretty short to verify the above claim.

The geiger map you yourself commended (http://japan.failedrobot.com/) currently shows a dose rate of 48 microSievert per hour at a location approx. 1km west of the reactor buildings 1-4. Even if only one third of that radiation is gamma, you'd get 16 microSievert per hour inside your lovely tent, three times the dose rate flight attendants are exposed to at cruising altitude. You'd get that 24/7. If you leave the tent or take contamination inside, your exposure increases.