Questions From ฉันคืออารี่

[kokesaat]

On p. 18 of this book, อารี่ describes one of her older sisters as a tomboy, then goes on to say:

เค้ามีแฟนเป็นพู้หญิงดัวยนะ เรียกว่าเข้าเส้นมาตั้งแต่เด็กๆ แก้ไขไม่ได้จนโต

I get the feeling that เข้าเส้นมาตั้งแต่เด็กๆ refers to her exhibiting gay tendencies since she was young, but I can't come up with a good way to translate the เข้าเส้น part of the sentence.

The last part talks about how she hasn't (been able to) change up (being gay) up to the time she grew older.

All help welcome.

For the mods: if you'd prefer me to keep vocab questions in individual threads, I'll be happy to do so. As Tod mentioned in an earlier post, this book is a good read for intermediate level readers.....but it's going to take me some time to get through all 245 pages.

[bhoydy]

เส้น could be short for เส้นทาง, in fact เส้น on it's own can also mean route or way.

So i'd directly translate it as she's entered that way since she was young, or even better - she's been that way since she was young

[Tod Daniels]

I think it's great you started this thread!

I know there're a few posters reading it, and if we keep the questions about the book here, at least people can ask things and more learned posters than myself could help provide answers.

With the phrase เข้าเส้นมา I took the second word เส้น to be more figurative in describing a progression or path in life. Unless I'm mistaken the verbs เข้า & มา are used to show directionality; as in having 'entered' that path at some time in the past when she was a child..

I've heard เส้น used in both normal speech and quite a lot in Thai songs like the phrase เส้นทางนั้น "that path", เส้นทางนี้ "this path" in regards to life choices.

I read thru the book once already. I'm now re-reading it, writing down the words I'm really not sure on and looking 'em up once I get back home. Most of the ones I didn't know, I was able to guess the meanings via context. However, guessing the meaning of a word, and actually knowing how to say it correctly or knowing how its used are horses of a different color.

[kokesaat]

I googled เข้าเส้นมาตั้งแต่ ......not much there except this extract from a John Wayne movie review (Stagecoach):

เพราะหนังเรื่องเองที่ผู้เขียนได้รับของฝากจากแหม่มของนายใหญ่เป็นกางเกงยีนส์ เสื้อตาสก็อต หมวกคาวบอยและรองเท้าบู้ทครบชุด เพราะต้องการให้เป็นเพื่อนเล่นกับตาแดนนี่ลูกนาย ผู้เขียนก็เริ่มคาวบอยเข้าเส้นมาตั้งแต่บัดนั้น

.....after getting some jeans, a cowboy, and boots as a gift.....the author's been a cowboy ever since that time.

[mikenyork]

เข้า เส้น is " she sense(d)" if I had to guess.

[Peppy]

I think เส้น here refers to veins and tendons, or เส้นเลือด and เส้นเอ็น respectively. My understanding is that เข้าเส้น means to be "deeply ingrained".

เค้ามีแฟนเป็นพู้หญิงด้วยนะ เรียกว่าเข้าเส้นมาตั้งแต่เด็กๆ แก้ไขไม่ได้จนโต

She's even got a girlfriend. You could say it was in her blood from a young age, and there was no fixing it as she got older.

[a51mas]

เข้า = in

เส้น (short for เส้นเลือด) = veins

เข้าเส้น = in the veins

So, it's means "in her veins" and that has becomes a normal part of her life, her characteristic since she was young.:jap:

Edited March 21, 2011 by a51mas

[bhoydy]

That's why i like this book. Even if you don't know all the words, you get the gist of what's going on from the context and the rest of the story. My guess was wrong, but it was still along the same vein.

Edited March 21, 2011 by bhoydy

[Tod Daniels]

WOW, I guess I was pretty far off the mark too!

I'd never heard the phrase เข้าเส้นเลือด which "a51mas" points out is the real phrase, with the abbreviated one เข้าเส้น being used in the book.

I guess it's kinda like her lesbian tendencies were 'ingrained' or 'hardwired' since she was a child. Also I'd imagine, if indeed it is "in the veins" or "in your blood" it's NOT a personal choice you can make. This meaning would seem to make it more a part of who you are and not who you choose to be.

I totally agree with "bhoydy"; even if we missed the nuance or the exact meaning; we were still able to figure out to one degree or another (for whatever reason) her sister was a lesbian since she was a child.

FWIW: I think it's a great practice book! Even just this single question gave us another idiomatic Thai expression; which we wouldn't necessarily learn the real meaning of by simply looking up the individual words in a dictionary. This book is FULL of expressions like that.

I did find the phrases; ตอนนั้น (then at that time), ฉะนั้น (consequently), จากนั้น (after that, From then on), and especially อยู่มาวันหนึ่ง (then one day), to be used quite a lot as the first words in new paragraphs.

However, this is a first person account of something, and the first I've ever read in Thai. So they could be "standard opening lines" when writing a narrative in the first person.

Interesting thread & and answers.

Thanx;

Tod

[HeavyDrinker]

'In the blood' is an even closer translation. Here's an phrase from a biog of Khaosai Galaxy (edited by myself for simplicity's sake)

การสู้เข้าเส้นเลือเขาจากวัยเด็ก

Fighting was in his blood from his childhood...<br style="CLEAR: both; FONT-SIZE: 1px">

[dvc]

Whilst we're, (sort of), on the subject of lesbians, I'm looking for popular terms for same. At thai-language.com I found a few examples:

ดี้

ตีฉิ่ง

ทอม

ทอมดี้

เบี้ยน

Any other suggestions, or insights into these terms, would be much appreciated.

[Tod Daniels]

In answer to the previous post by "dvc";

Here's the link to thai-language dot com's Gay & Lesbian page.

Thai-Language Dot Com - Gay / Lesbian Terms

If you use the site thai-language dot com; it's always better to go to the 'site settings' tab on the left side of the page (about half way down) click it, and then check the tabs marked "enable Gay content" & "enable Racy content" . (Don't forget to save your settings!)

You'll get far more contemporary slang and usage that way.

Edited March 22, 2011 by tod-daniels

[kokesaat]

Not a question today, but an observation.

On p. 21, เอรี่ is talking about life in M. 1 and how she was regularly beat by the teachers for violating the rules. I asked my wife about the meaning of ตั้งแต่ศีรษะจรดปลายเท้า and she proceeded to relate her life as a village student 50 years ago. Over the weekend, she and her friends would go out hunting crickets, frogs, fish, bamboo, etc from the jungle. By Sunday night, she'd be encrusted with dirt. Knowing that Monday morning would be inspection day at school, she and her friends would spend a good deal of time scrubbing their bodies and then soaking with tamarind paste to remove stains from their hands and feet. If they didn't, they'd get a beating from the teacher from their head to the tip of their toes.....if their hands were dirty, the teacher smacked the hands with a stick. Likewise for knees, feet, head, you name it.

A dictionary can give a translation, maybe an example of usage in a sentence. A good wife/mate can provide a verbal 'powerpoint' presentation that really drives the translation home.

It's a shame an enterprising Thai doesn't take a popular book (with Thais) like this and provide an audio recording.....especially with nearly everyone and their grandmother having a mobile phone as a storage device.

[kokesaat]

The author uses the term แรด to describe some of her girlfriends/acquaintances (p. 24 bottom of first para, p. 29 line 4 of 3rd para, p.31 near end of first para).

My dictionary comes up with rhino or snobby, but that doesn't seem to fit the story. When I googled คำว่า แรด หมายถึง I get the impression the word is more along the lines of slutty (one wrote ....จะมีความต้องการทางเพศสูงมาก).

Since this seems to be a common theme among the author's friends, and I suspect the word is a form of slang, I'd like to get a better definition of the word, if there is one.

Thanks again for the link to the book, Tod!

[mikenyork]

I cheated and used gf as my source. The best I can get is "behaving in an attention getting, objectionable and affected way'. Similar to แก่แดด or ดัดจริต, one of those words that one says to friends "with a smile" (cf. The Virginian). Going into paroxysms of loud, shrill screaming at the sight of a famous rock star would qualify for this kind of behavior.

[a51mas]

The author uses the term แรด to describe some of her girlfriends/acquaintances (p. 24 bottom of first para, p. 29 line 4 of 3rd para, p.31 near end of first para).

My dictionary comes up with rhino or snobby, but that doesn't seem to fit the story. When I googled คำว่า แรด หมายถึง I get the impression the word is more along the lines of slutty (one wrote ....จะมีความต้องการทางเพศสูงมาก).

Since this seems to be a common theme among the author's friends, and I suspect the word is a form of slang, I'd like to get a better definition of the word, if there is one.

Thanks again for the link to the book, Tod!

แรด flirtatious/seductive woman :)

Edited April 4, 2011 by a51mas

[FireInTheSky]

I bought the book today as well and read the first couple of chapters.. it's a pretty interesting story and I do like the way it is written. If i have any questions I will post them in this topic as well

[FireInTheSky]

ps I am pretty sure the title reads "ฉันคือเอรี่" instead

[kokesaat]

"ps I am pretty sure the title reads "ฉันคือเอรี่" instead"

Reading and writing Thai is one thing.....proofreading is another all together...and obviously not my strongpoint. Sorry about that! The title is indeed ฉันคือเอรี่.

Is there a way for me to correct the threat title or does it require mod intervention?

I just finished chapter one with the reference to the funeral for พระนางเจ้ารำไพพรรณี.....and since I had no idea who she was, I spent a good part of today reading up on the woman who was married to King Prajadhipok (Rama VII). Interesting reading!

[Peppy]

Whilst we're, (sort of), on the subject of lesbians, I'm looking for popular terms for same. At thai-language.com I found a few examples:

ดี้

ตีฉิ่ง

ทอม

ทอมดี้

เบี้ยน

Any other suggestions, or insights into these terms, would be much appreciated.

Except for ตีฉิ่ง, they're actually all shortenings of English words. ดี้ is from "lady" and means feminine lesbian--i.e. a woman who dresses and talks as a woman, but prefers female sexual partners. ทอม comes from "tomboy" and means a butch or masculine lesbian--short hair, and mannish clothes and mannerisms. ทอมดี้ is a couple, comprised of one ทอม and one ดี้, while เบี้ยน is simply a shortening of "lesbian". As for ตีฉิ่ง, the literal meaning is to beat cymbals (those little cup-like ones called ฉิ่ง), but it's also the word for the lesbian sex position known in English as "scissors".

While I'm here, I'll put in my two cents on แรด as well--I think "slut/slutty" is indeed the perfect English translation, with all of the same connotations.

[FireInTheSky]

I finished the book yesterday and I will read it again this week The book is SUPER good and I enjoyed every moment I was reading it. Thank you Thaivisa for the suggestion lol

[FireInTheSky]

Whilst we're, (sort of), on the subject of lesbians, I'm looking for popular terms for same. At thai-language.com I found a few examples:

ดี้

ตีฉิ่ง

ทอม

ทอมดี้

เบี้ยน

Any other suggestions, or insights into these terms, would be much appreciated.

Except for ตีฉิ่ง, they're actually all shortenings of English words. ดี้ is from "lady" and means feminine lesbian--i.e. a woman who dresses and talks as a woman, but prefers female sexual partners. ทอม comes from "tomboy" and means a butch or masculine lesbian--short hair, and mannish clothes and mannerisms. ทอมดี้ is a couple, comprised of one ทอม and one ดี้, while เบี้ยน is simply a shortening of "lesbian". As for ตีฉิ่ง, the literal meaning is to beat cymbals (those little cup-like ones called ฉิ่ง), but it's also the word for the lesbian sex position known in English as "scissors".

While I'm here, I'll put in my two cents on แรด as well--I think "slut/slutty" is indeed the perfect English translation, with all of the same connotations.

Thank you for this one peppy. Thanks a lot actually. Your explanation made this very easy to remember and it is nice trivia to know!

[FireInTheSky]

I'll take the opportunity to explain some other words in this book

แมงดา = pimp

มาม่าซัง= mamasan = female brothel owner or something like that

ยากูซ่า = japanese mafia

ไอ้กอ = some slang for this japanse mafia as far as I understood

เถ้าแก่ = some old rich chinese (looking) businessguy

and a very nice phrase

ไปตายเอาดาบหน้า / ไปตายชักดาบหน้า = something like "jump in the deep and see whatever the heck happens". I don't know if my interpretation is correct so maybe someone can correct me

Cheers (I have read the book now for the 2nd time and I loved it a lot! THANKS THAIVISA.COM FOR THE SUGGESTION )

[kokesaat]

On page 38, last para, "แล้วเค้าพกไม้หน้าสามมาด้วยทุกครัง" and again "เค้าก็จะใช้ไม้หน้าสามไล่ตีฉันเป็นประจำ"

I struck out with my dictionaries for the meaning of หน้าสาม. My wife held up 3 or 4 fingers together and described a stick หน้าสาม as about the width of those fingers. She said a stick หน้าสี่ would be wider than หน้าสาม. So I deduct that it's a way of measuring, sort of like using 'hands' to measure a horse.

I'm also curious why the author repeatedly choses to abbreviate the word จดหมาย (จม.). She doesn't abbreviate any other word (up to page 39)....it just seems odd that she would chose this one word alone to shorted. Any insight?

[Peppy]

ไม้หน้าสาม is basically a two-by-four.

จดหมาย (letter) is just one of those words that's usually abbreviated, since everybody knows what จม. means. (That is to say, this author isn't the only person who does this--she's just conforming to the norms of written Thai.)

[kokesaat]

ไม้หน้าสาม is basically a two-by-four.

จดหมาย (letter) is just one of those words that's usually abbreviated, since everybody knows what จม. means. (That is to say, this author isn't the only person who does this--she's just conforming to the norms of written Thai.)

I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind the ไม้หน้าสาม = 2x4. If there isn't any, no problem.

As for the use of the abbreviation for จดหมาย, the author uses the abbreviation probably 10 times...then suddenly on page 39, she spells it out. I understand the use of กทม. as an everyday abbreviation (like we do 'doctor-dr.), but จกหมาย?? No problem.....back to reading.

[FireInTheSky]

On page 38, last para, "แล้วเค้าพกไม้หน้าสามมาด้วยทุกครัง" and again "เค้าก็จะใช้ไม้หน้าสามไล่ตีฉันเป็นประจำ"

I struck out with my dictionaries for the meaning of หน้าสาม. My wife held up 3 or 4 fingers together and described a stick หน้าสาม as about the width of those fingers. She said a stick หน้าสี่ would be wider than หน้าสาม. So I deduct that it's a way of measuring, sort of like using 'hands' to measure a horse.

I'm also curious why the author repeatedly choses to abbreviate the word จดหมาย (จม.). She doesn't abbreviate any other word (up to page 39)....it just seems odd that she would chose this one word alone to shorted. Any insight?

Actually she did abbreviate กทม well before that as far as I remember

[bhoydy]

I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind the ไม้หน้าสาม = 2x4. If there isn't any, no problem.

It's because the face of it is three inches wide.

[kokesaat]

on page 59:

ฉันอดรู้สึกในใจไม่ได้ว่าทำไมชีวิตของฉันมันจึงวนเวียนกับชีวิตคนกลางคืนเข้ามาทุกทีๆ หรือว่าเบื้องบนลิขิตให้เราจะต้องเข้ามาย่ำกรายอยู่ในวงการชีวิตกลางคืน หรือว่าเราหนีไม่พันอาชีพนี้คิดไปต่างๆ นานา

This is the first passage in 59 pages that has me stumped. It's at the point where เอรี่ has returned to Bangkok from her first stint in Pattaya. She's selling cigarettes in the Patpong area. She seems to be reflecting on the hand she's been dealt in life, why she's ended up with a life being surrounded by คนกลางคืน (I'm assuming she means prostitutes, pimps, customers, etc). I can't make sense of the next sentence ( หรือว่าเบื้องบนลิขิตให้เราจะต้องเข้ามาย่ำกรายอยู่ในวงการชีวิตกลางคืน). In the last sentence, I sense she's saying 'or is it an inescapable profession (no matter) what we think'.

I gather she's doing some deep thinking......too deep for my vocabulary. All help welcome....as always!

[a51mas]

on page 59:

ฉันอดรู้สึกในใจไม่ได้ว่าทำไมชีวิตของฉันมันจึงวนเวียนกับชีวิตคนกลางคืนเข้ามาทุกทีๆ หรือว่าเบื้องบนลิขิตให้เราจะต้องเข้ามาย่ำกรายอยู่ในวงการชีวิตกลางคืน หรือว่าเราหนีไม่พันอาชีพนี้คิดไปต่างๆ นานา

This is the first passage in 59 pages that has me stumped. It's at the point where เอรี่ has returned to Bangkok from her first stint in Pattaya. She's selling cigarettes in the Patpong area. She seems to be reflecting on the hand she's been dealt in life, why she's ended up with a life being surrounded by คนกลางคืน (I'm assuming she means prostitutes, pimps, customers, etc). I can't make sense of the next sentence ( หรือว่าเบื้องบนลิขิตให้เราจะต้องเข้ามาย่ำกรายอยู่ในวงการชีวิตกลางคืน). In the last sentence, I sense she's saying 'or is it an inescapable profession (no matter) what we think'.

I gather she's doing some deep thinking......too deep for my vocabulary. All help welcome....as always!

หรือว่าเบื้องบนลิขิตให้เราจะต้องเข้ามาย่ำกรายอยู่ในวงการชีวิตกลางคืน

or was it heaven's will that led us into nightlife circle.:jap: