Musicians Arrested

[upupandaway]

One of the more sinister aspects of this case is that the BiB found that one of the foreigners they cracked down on had publicly announced his musical appointments on Facebook - apparantly the BiB arrived at GM with copies of his Facebook pages. He was also an overstayer. The rules on overstaying now involve a spell in jail if the overstay is more than 42 days (i gather it was several months) and there has always been the possiblity of a custodial sentence for working without a work permit - although he might have got away with that if his visa had been in order.

I'd love to have live music at my place but the choices are either to run these kind of risks with Farangs or to employ Thai musicians to murder English songs - also its not that easy to get Thais to play when YOU want them to - anyone half decent (and I mean only half decent) wants a weekly slot or they're not interested - the trouble with that is that their usually limited repertoires mean the same 'set' every week. So I stick to recorded

music - which as many of you will know has its own problems

I feel desperately sorry for all concerned. The idea that foreigners can't play unpaid music in public because some local with a beat up guitar thinks he can do as well is terrible and the idea that the police hack into peoples Facebook accounts and use their posts as evidence is utterley beneath contempt.

I'm a big fan ot Thai music from classical to Looktung to pop, and some Thai muscians are very talented - that talent rarely shines through when they attempt Western music.

Let's hope that sometime in the future this law is changed. Until then, stick to singing in the bath. I do and my 3 year old loves it!!!

I posted this earlier with some misleading info about neighbouring establishments. I apologise that it seems this part of the information was out of date.

I have to disagree with you about using face book to enforce the law. It is a public forum and I am sure most police forces and there relatives in the world use it when it is appropriate.

I had heard that the poster also talked about making money with out a work visa on his face book. Kind of like waving a red flag at a bull and wondering why the bull is running at you.

It is a sad time when the law stops people from jamming. But when one wont jam with others that is not jamming. Perhaps if he had not talked about making money with out his work visa they would have continued to ignore him as they do for the many other people here that jam.

Sad to see the other three get taken down by this thoughtless person.

[CMSteve]

I'm sure this is the first step to getting arrested. Make sure to also advertise this on Twitter and Facebook. i'm sure they'll come looking for you soon enough....

One has to ask this question,what about the muaythai farangs who fight in the ring,they get paid,win or lose, i have fought and been paid,i know guys have been fighting for years without a permit and get paid, any comments on this??

[blabla1]

LoL

I'm sure this is the first step to getting arrested. Make sure to also advertise this on Twitter and Facebook. i'm sure they'll come looking for you soon enough....

One has to ask this question,what about the muaythai farangs who fight in the ring,they get paid,win or lose, i have fought and been paid,i know guys have been fighting for years without a permit and get paid, any comments on this??

[blabla1]

Bottom line from immigration, i cannot play music unless it's in a private place,not even at a private party being held in a place of business, i cannot stand behind the bar and talk with guests, i cannot sit with guests and keep them entertained with conversation, i cannot cook ,take orders or serve anything, i can help with renovations and odd jobs around the place of business.

There is an entertainment license which costs a fortune, then i can have farangs who have a work permit to sing in Thailand, playing in my place, anyone hiring a farang without a work permit is breaking the law..... so, even if i get a permit which says i can hire farangs in my place, i myself ,still need a permit which allows me to play music in Thailand.... stay tuned, i am going to check out the entertainment license on Monday....phew

[blabla1]

Being a friend to one of the musicians in question they have asked me to say that not one post on this thread has been accurate to the facts so far, some have been close but not accurate, all in question are taking responsibility for their actions and will respect the decision of the courts.

[Okertes]

I also have building a house and have not met one person who is a crook with all the construction work furnishing the house registartions

ETC.

Pathetic. With all the "things" that go on in Thailand, the powers that be choose this to tackle? Surely they have more productive things to do.

TheWalkingMan

you are absolutely right - I have just been building a house and have - except for one person - not come across anybody who was not a crook!! The scale of corruption, cheating and dishonesty in this country is beyond believe - and these sad excuses for law enforcement officers have nothing better to do then to arrest a few musicians who are performing for free??

And spare me with answers like "The law is the law" - nobody of the locals gives a dam_n about any law - and even if you try and fight them within the boundaries of the law - they get nasty and threaten you - or worse!

[thedistillers]

When you have a ridiculous, self-referencing definition of work, what is work, what isn't, is what TPTB decide is work or not. Period. So those who say that painting your own house is not work are wrong. If the judge decides it is work, then it is work. End of the discussion.

In this case, it's a no brainer that it is work, regardless of how often rules are enforced in general.

Edited March 26, 2011 by thedistillers

[surayu]

When you have a ridiculous, self-referencing definition of work, what is work, what isn't, is what TPTB decide is work or not. Period. So those who say that painting your own house is not work are wrong. If the judge decides it is work, then it is work. End of the discussion.

In this case, it's a no brainer that it is work, regardless of how often rules are enforced in general.

mmmh, can you recall of anyone been succesfully prosecuted for painting his own house? but actually let's not restrict to painting, lets say any "work" done inside an individual own home, like gardening, cooking, anything.

Do you think someone is working while wiping his own ass with toilette paper too? that's obviously depriving somebody else of a possible service it could charge money for

[Loaded]

I think Thai labor law is very clear if you read it. The idea of foreigners playing music sets in a bar cannot be compared to painting your own house or singing karaoke. It clearly breaks Thai labour law if the musicians didn't have appropriate work permits.

[blabla1]

Ok let's get away from this for a while, does anybody have any knowledge of how some one can legally play here?

Can i form a music tour company and hire myself and others as performers?

How can i apply for a permit to play in my place?any tricks,advice from anyone?

If i get married,can i get a work permit? any info ,please welcome.

Ok let's forget the last one..lol

Edited March 27, 2011 by blabla1

[DavidOxon]

Ok let's get away from this for a while, does anybody have any knowledge of how some one can legally play here?

Can i form a music tour company and hire myself and others as performers?

How can i apply for a permit to play in my place?any tricks,advice from anyone?

If i get married,can i get a work permit? any info ,please welcome.

Ok let's forget the last one..lol

doh! and I was just starting to write me best man's speech too!

[bazmlb]

Several posts have been removed for flaming, please try to keep it on topic and nice.

[Paagai]

Nobody seems to have drawn the obvious conclusion - it's three weeks before Songkran and the party fund need topping up..... Easy targets always appreciated! Irrespective of your views on the rights and wrongs of the issues, these "clampdowns" always seem to happen in the run up to Jan 1st and Songkran A good time of year to be extra generous with your unwanted visitors.

[a99az]

Think it's time to move on. Got the house up for sale and two good offers to teach, where I don't have to give a pass marks to kids who fail. Sad as I do love this country, but having to report like a criminal to immigration every three months, and being charged 400% more than my Thai wife and kids when we visit a park, is starting to where thin. Eu should apply the same laws to visiting Thai's, then when Mr Abscise next visits, he can have a taste of the discrimination we expats endure every day.

[venturalaw]

Think it's time to move on. Got the house up for sale and two good offers to teach, where I don't have to give a pass marks to kids who fail. Sad as I do love this country, but having to report like a criminal to immigration every three months, and being charged 400% more than my Thai wife and kids when we visit a park, is starting to where thin. Eu should apply the same laws to visiting Thai's, then when Mr Abscise next visits, he can have a taste of the discrimination we expats endure every day.

Don't blame you at all. You certainly have made arguments that cannot be challenged. I feel the same, but it would be quite an undertaking at this time to uproot.

Best of luck to you.

Edited March 27, 2011 by venturalaw

[Loaded]

Think it's time to move on. Got the house up for sale and two good offers to teach, where I don't have to give a pass marks to kids who fail. Sad as I do love this country, but having to report like a criminal to immigration every three months, and being charged 400% more than my Thai wife and kids when we visit a park, is starting to where thin. Eu should apply the same laws to visiting Thai's, then when Mr Abscise next visits, he can have a taste of the discrimination we expats endure every day.

In the UK kids who fail exams, automatically go up to the next year. It's no different in Thailand.

Reporting to Immigration every 3 months is not really a big deal. 20 minutes and you in then out. I certainly don't feel like a criminal.

The last time I visited a national park that has 2-tier pricing was around 6 years ago. I showed my drivers licence and got in for the same price as my wife.

Abscise (Abhisit?) has a British passport, British birth certificate and is British.

If these are your reasons for leaving Thailand, good luck and good bye.

[venturalaw]

Think it's time to move on. Got the house up for sale and two good offers to teach, where I don't have to give a pass marks to kids who fail. Sad as I do love this country, but having to report like a criminal to immigration every three months, and being charged 400% more than my Thai wife and kids when we visit a park, is starting to where thin. Eu should apply the same laws to visiting Thai's, then when Mr Abscise next visits, he can have a taste of the discrimination we expats endure every day.

In the UK kids who fail exams, automatically go up to the next year. It's no different in Thailand.

Reporting to Immigration every 3 months is not really a big deal. 20 minutes and you in then out. I certainly don't feel like a criminal.

The last time I visited a national park that has 2-tier pricing was around 6 years ago. I showed my drivers licence and got in for the same price as my wife.

Abscise (Abhisit?) has a British passport, British birth certificate and is British.

If these are your reasons for leaving Thailand, good luck and good bye.

In the UK kids who fail exams, automatically go up to the next year. It's no different in Thailand.

Passing a child up a grade automatically shows a significant defect in the educational system, however, I am most certain that the education a child receives in virtually any western country is superior to what one receives in Thailand.

Reporting to Immigration every 3 months is not really a big deal. 20 minutes and you in then out. I certainly don't feel like a criminal.

The fact that you (nor I) feel or do not feel like a criminal is not the point. The procedure treats us as though we are criminals. It's a complete waste of time, not to mention a waste of resources for Thai immigration.

The last time I visited a national park that has 2-tier pricing was around 6 years ago. I showed my drivers licence and got in for the same price as my wife.

As have I, however, there are a multitude of examples where foreigners are treated as undesirables; take the work permit issue for example (which is more on point with the topic of this thread). Absolutely moronic.

Abscise (Abhisit?) has a British passport, British birth certificate and is British.

Yes, Abhisit is a British citizen, which has in fact provided him some grief in Thailand:

I enjoy living here, but there is no denying that non-Thais are discriminated against, as evidenced by the topic this thread, often reprehensibly.

[metisdead]

A quoted post has been removed as the quote had been altered.

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[pjclark1]

Think it's time to move on. Got the house up for sale and two good offers to teach, where I don't have to give a pass marks to kids who fail. Sad as I do love this country, but having to report like a criminal to immigration every three months, and being charged 400% more than my Thai wife and kids when we visit a park, is starting to where thin. Eu should apply the same laws to visiting Thai's, then when Mr Abscise next visits, he can have a taste of the discrimination we expats endure every day.

If you show your Thai driving license or work permit you can enter NPs for the same price as Thais.

[searcher22]

Think it's time to move on. Got the house up for sale and two good offers to teach, where I don't have to give a pass marks to kids who fail. Sad as I do love this country, but having to report like a criminal to immigration every three months, and being charged 400% more than my Thai wife and kids when we visit a park, is starting to where thin. Eu should apply the same laws to visiting Thai's, then when Mr Abscise next visits, he can have a taste of the discrimination we expats endure every day.

I understand how you feel. But whatever your next destination is, I bet that after a few years, you'll be able to come up with another list of things that are wearing you thin. Things like crime, lack of good medical care, overt censorship, water scarcity, high cost of living, stressed people, dull nightlife, big traffic jams, monsoon, cyclones, constant brown-outs, religious strife and lack of Kraft mayonnaise. Readers, if you know of a perfect low-cost tropical country to settle in, let us know!

[ChiangMaiFun]

Think it's time to move on. Got the house up for sale and two good offers to teach, where I don't have to give a pass marks to kids who fail. Sad as I do love this country, but having to report like a criminal to immigration every three months, and being charged 400% more than my Thai wife and kids when we visit a park, is starting to where thin. Eu should apply the same laws to visiting Thai's, then when Mr Abscise next visits, he can have a taste of the discrimination we expats endure every day.

In the UK kids who fail exams, automatically go up to the next year. It's no different in Thailand.

They don't go into University without grades nor proceed very far - Thai education cannot be compared it's like comparing the Thai national Football Team with Manchester United

Reporting to Immigration every 3 months is not really a big deal. 20 minutes and you in then out. I certainly don't feel like a criminal.

It's a waste of staffing time, our time and serves NO purpose

The last time I visited a national park that has 2-tier pricing was around 6 years ago. I showed my drivers licence and got in for the same price as my wife.

This is true - but can you imagine the Tate in London charging TWO levels? it's a relic and nationalistic

Abscise (Abhisit?) has a British passport, British birth certificate and is British.

He has dual-Nationality - luckily his Deputy has pointed out that he 'doesn't respect Farangs' so that must include his Boss right?

If these are your reasons for leaving Thailand, good luck and good bye.

bit harsh as he has spoken what most of us feel here - but we stay because the good points outweigh the bad (for us) if he's decided the outputs don't exceed the inputs then that's fair enough?

[Yuu_CM]

I was in a few places last night and there were farangs singing in all of them.

Absolutely ridiculous if someone is arrested for that.

Looking around the city through the eyes of someone who'd been out of CM for a while, it's blatantly apparent how down tourism is / how many places are struggling.

We on this forum love CM, but there's a million other options for people out there and the reality is that this country isn't overly appealing for most people.

I worked for people back home who spent almost all of 2009 looking at an investment in Chiang Mai. They were going to bring in around 30 million baht / tonnes of jobs. Their sole motive was they love the city and wanted their (farang) kids to go to school here.

After alomost a year, they gave up. The paper work, laws, uncertainty etc ruined their plans. They invested in Vietnam instead and said it's been 100 times easier.

Some of you will arrogantly say "no loss", but the dozens of people they were going to employ and the local people who'd of benefited from their investment did lose out.

[Yuu_CM]

Side note: for the married guys, as a point of comparison if you marry a Malaysian girl you get a five year visa to stay there + a five year WP to do any job.

That's a Muslim country.

And it's a million times fairer.

I am not sure why a Buddhist country is so discriminatory, but it is what it is. Not much we can do. I've learnt to accept it.

[Ulysses G.]

I am not sure why a Buddhist country is so discriminatory, but it is what it is. Not much we can do. I've learnt to accept it.

It might have something to do with how our countries treat them.

[CMSteve]

That's probably the correct answer, as a Buddhist country, they've learned to accept it

I am not sure why a Buddhist country is so discriminatory, but it is what it is. Not much we can do. I've learnt to accept it.

Edited March 27, 2011 by CMSteve

[Yuu_CM]

Ulysses G.

Not sure what you mean "how our countries treats them" re Thai Buddhists?

I don't know about yours, but mine welcomes Thais.............makes it easy for them to establish businesses...gives citizenship, welfare, free medical for life for anyone who gets PR or for spouses of more than two years.........free education for those migrants kids...............and has seen Thai immigration absolutely boom the past decade....

Not even comparable mate.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Yuu_CM

[searcher22]

We on this forum love CM, but there's a million other options for people out there and the reality is that this country isn't overly appealing for most people.

That's true only for those in the high-income bracket. For the rest of us, Thailand is, dare I say, most welcoming (albeit with some irritants!) for those who just want a nice quiet retirement and are not seeking to operate a business or own property.

[Ulysses G.]

Ulysses G.

Not sure what you mean "how our countries treats them" re Thai Buddhists?

I don't know about yours, but mine welcomes Thais

Well, I do not think you are from the US, the UK, or OZ.

Maybe you are from New Zealand who used to let Thais in easily and the Thais returned the favor.

When I first came here, citizens of New Zealand could enter Thailand for 90 days with no visa as many times as they liked and other "Westerners" had a hard time getting a long-term visa ay all. I am not sure about the situation now.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[ChiangMaiFun]

We on this forum love CM, but there's a million other options for people out there and the reality is that this country isn't overly appealing for most people.

That's true only for those in the high-income bracket. For the rest of us, Thailand is, dare I say, most welcoming (albeit with some irritants!) for those who just want a nice quiet retirement and are not seeking to operate a business or own property.

'most welcoming' might be stretching it a tad? with 90 day reporting, limits on strumming guitars in public and double pricing'?

[searcher22]

We on this forum love CM, but there's a million other options for people out there and the reality is that this country isn't overly appealing for most people.

That's true only for those in the high-income bracket. For the rest of us, Thailand is, dare I say, most welcoming (albeit with some irritants!) for those who just want a nice quiet retirement and are not seeking to operate a business or own property.

'most welcoming' might be stretching it a tad? with 90 day reporting, limits on strumming guitars in public and double pricing'?

90-day reporting: A minor inconvenience. Besides, I think we'll all be able to mail in our 90-day report or do it online in the very near future.

Strumming guitars in public: Don't do it in a way that may antagonize local businesses or put Thais at a disadvantage and you'll be okay.

Double-pricing. I've solved that problem...I don't go to these places. Even if they made Thais pay 200 B just like farangs, I'd still feel ripped off, as I don't think it's worth that much anyway. You can probably find equivalent sites that are accessible at no charge, and probably better, since it wouldn't be as touristy.