If All Foreigners Would Leave This Country...

[mstribling]

If I had to leave I would be sad and probably try and come in Illegally somehow I am sort of addicted to Thailand even with all the faults.

I bet there some sick buffalos over in Laos and Cambodia. If they booted us out, we wouldn't have to go far.

[MrsMills]

If Thailand was so bad, no Farangs would live here by choice.

The fact that thousands upon thousands of Farangs choose to live here is a ringing endorsement for Thailand and Thai people.

Or are you saying that Farangs are so stupid, they choose to stay in a place they don't like ?

Not every Farang is a ThaiVisa member.

Edited March 30, 2011 by MrsMills

[mark45y]

My name is Mark and I am addicted to Thailand.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things about Thailand that I cannot change.

The courage to change the things I can.

And the wisdom to know the difference.

[MrsMills]

My name is Mark and I am addicted to Thailand.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things about Thailand that I cannot change.

The courage to change the things I can.

And the wisdom to know the difference.

The serenity prayer for Thailand addicts, very nicely done.

Congratulations Mark, I think you may have actually found the first step for bitching whining Farangs.

Edited March 30, 2011 by MrsMills

[toybits]

Samran, it probably is a comprehension problem.

I think you have what is called Messiah complex.

Hardly, given that I dont suggest that the money is coming from me. And who made you a psychiatrist anyway?

To use another comparison, the Thai government has a annual budget of around $75 Billion. Are you saying, that all these things you identify are bigger than the Thai government? You know, the government which builds roads, buildings and other infrastructure, pays millions of civil servants salaries, looks after 4 or 5 dozen state owned enterprises and a couple of dozen essential services.

If you count all of the farang-related income, I wouldnt be surprised. There is a lot of it.

Sounds like you've counted it. Please lay out the numbers then. Maybe I'd me more inclined to beleive that you are not making it up as you are going along.

[toybits]

Too bad Thai visa does not have a like button. I love this post!

My name is Mark and I am addicted to Thailand.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things about Thailand that I cannot change.

The courage to change the things I can.

And the wisdom to know the difference.

The serenity prayer for Thailand addicts, very nicely done.

Congratulations Mark, I think you may have actually found the first step for bitching whining Farangs.

[Darrel]

Sounds like you've counted it. Please lay out the numbers then. Maybe I'd me more inclined to beleive that you are not making it up as you are going along.

Believe what you wish; it doesn't bother me. What I didn't believe was the bare number given by the Thai government. It seems obvious to me that there is more to those figures than meets the eye and it doesn't take long to think of many things that surely are not included.

[daveb1]

If allforeigners, or let's say 90% would leave this country and tourists stay away...What would be the effects, such as hundreds of thousands of foreignmoney-supported families would suddenly become poor, but more on larger scalewhat would it do to the national economy and how they would develop themselves? Just wonder...

Would many things such as rice and gasoline wouldbecome cheaper again ?

What a totally pointless and stupid post!

Edited March 31, 2011 by daveb1

[bangkokcitylimits]

What a totally pointless and stupid post!

Of almost 100 posts in this ongoing discussion your contribution was one of the most interesting ones however

[samran]

Sounds like you've counted it. Please lay out the numbers then. Maybe I'd me more inclined to beleive that you are not making it up as you are going along.

Believe what you wish; it doesn't bother me. What I didn't believe was the bare number given by the Thai government. It seems obvious to me that there is more to those figures than meets the eye and it doesn't take long to think of many things that surely are not included.

ah you are one of them then, never believe anything that the government says? A massive distrust of government - especially when their numbers don't suit your arguments. About says it all really.

Samran, it probably is a comprehension problem.

Tell me about it 'toybits'. I suspect that the collective average IQ of Thailand drops slightly every time people with 'comprehension issues' like these step foot on Thai soil.

Edited April 1, 2011 by samran

[mogoso]

China's a paper dragon. The only reason they have a military is for internal control.

Sadly, the question isn't America fighting China. It's will America fight for China?

The "Obama" was asked by thr Arab League to go after Ghadaffi, which is one of the reasons he gave on TV a few nights ago. So I see nothing stopping China who owns the US financially to do its bidding. With the "Obama" you get bowing and scraping as a bonus.

[DummDays]

it would be great for me, if all Foreigners leave this Country

[chops]

Oh no! Just think. If you left Thailand with your huge 30,000 baht a month pension, Thailand would instantly turn into an impoverished country and millions would starve!

I think some farangs have an exagerated sense of their importance. I see loads of shiny new cars with Thai drivers. Guess who's riding the dingy Honda Click? Farang.

[clinique]

Oh dear - our bi-monthly 'if it wasn't for us, Thailand would fall in a heap' thread, soon to be followed by replies how dastartly the locals are with cries of 'xenophobia' and 'racism' and how the lady at the local mom and pop shop charges me more and thus we are all discriminated against and how that is the 'final nail in the coffin'.

What would happen? Not much probably.

Thailand would have lost more as a % of GDP during the Asian financial crisis. Funny with that though, very few people went hungry and life kinda went on.

Farang spending is reportedly 7% of GDP, is it not? Based on figures quoted in the "don't respect farang" article. A piffling amount. I'm sure they couldn't give a toss. Many certainly act like it. And why not? its their train set.

Tend to agree with you. Pretty sure it wouldnt matter to majority of Thais. Nomore Aliens and Guests to deal with..

With the way the worlds food shortage is growing,, maybe LOS could revert to agrarian society and reap the benefit from all our western countries which now cannot supply basic food essentials to their populations.

[CPH]

As most af the thai population are in agriculture absolutely nothing would happen to most thais. From many of the posts it seems

many are of the impression that all the tourist industry are owned by foreigners. This is however not correct. A lot of hotels,

restaurants, taxies etc are owned by Thais. Most of the foreigners in Thailand are retirees, only the expats leaving could be a problem.

The country would just continue functioning for most people the way it does now.

Actualle many things could happen which would make many foreigners leave. For instance Thai baht could appreciate 50 % over the next 10 years.

The political climate could change and immigration laws could be tightened.

Civil war could occur in connection with an election of the red. etc etc etc

[bangkokcitylimits]

Oh no! Just think. If you left Thailand with your huge 30,000 baht a month pension, Thailand would instantly turn into an impoverished country and millions would starve!

I think some farangs have an exagerated sense of their importance. I see loads of shiny new cars with Thai drivers. Guess who's riding the dingy Honda Click? Farang.

Did you know that bumper sticker saying 'Yours is more beautiful but my one has been paid' ?

Thais rarely pay cash, loans are given too easy and most of the shiny imago boosters are taken back by the bank withing months and resold via auctions.

[zzaa09]

I think some farangs have an exagerated sense of their importance.....

Indeed. Generally speaking importance.

[ES1]

Quite a few foreign food restaurants would shut down. A lot of water front condo's would go empty. Not as many Issan mansions (ie. anything with plumbing) going up. Other than that not much would change.

[gregb]

Quite a few foreign food restaurants would shut down. A lot of water front condo's would go empty. Not as many Issan mansions (ie. anything with plumbing) going up. Other than that not much would change.

True Visions would lost almost all of their subscribers to their Gold and Platinum packages. Thais aren't foolish enough to pay such egregious rates for such poor quality programming.

[PingManDan]

Suthep would get on his knees and beg for us to come back, while on his knees he might even give us a real feel good surprise, as he gags on mine.

[zzaa09]

... not much would change.

The honest bottom line. Many Farang fear that "their way" and influence would be missed. I doubt it.

[JurgenG]

... not much would change.

The honest bottom line. Many Farang fear that "their way" and influence would be missed. I doubt it.

Agree with you

The problem I've with this thread is by "foreigners" people assume "westerners"

Japanese and Chinese have always been much welcomed in the kingdom ....Most industries are either controlled by Japanese or Chinese, westerners only sponsors bars. No big deal is they leave ....

[cardholder]

Oh no! Just think. If you left Thailand with your huge 30,000 baht a month pension, Thailand would instantly turn into an impoverished country and millions would starve!

I think some farangs have an exagerated sense of their importance. I see loads of shiny new cars with Thai drivers. Guess who's riding the dingy Honda Click? Farang.

Would that be a dingy Thai ne'er-do-well ?

[elektrified]

But you sound like you think that without the few pennies some old farangs toss up too Issan for their x-bar girls is gonna make some kind of meaningful, even measurable difference to the economy, and thats just funny.

I agree. I think the tables have turned and many, many more Thais are far more well-off than they were when I first came here in 1989 or 1990. Almost all the Thais I know have sizable bank accounts, nice homes and cars (paid for in cash), and couldn't give a rats ass about money foreigner's spend here. Also we are now in a global economy and many Thais trade over the Internet and International sales account for a large share of this financial independence.

On the other hand, many, many more farangs I see in Thailand now are of the kii-nok variety with very little money to their names and just barely getting by living in Thailand.

Also a lot of farangs only know BG's and low-class people that they meet in bars in Isaan, etc. so they really don't have a true understanding of how average middle-class Thais live. Even the Karen woman who cleans my house has her kids in a very good private school in Chiang Mai. So yes, some farangs do have an exaggerated sense of their importance here in the Kingdom.

Edited April 3, 2011 by elektrified

[mark45y]

But you sound like you think that without the few pennies some old farangs toss up too Issan for their x-bar girls is gonna make some kind of meaningful, even measurable difference to the economy, and thats just funny.

I agree. I think the tables have turned and many, many more Thais are far more well-off than they were when I first came here in 1989 or 1990. Almost all the Thais I know have sizable bank accounts, nice homes and cars (paid for in cash), and couldn't give a rats ass about money foreigner's spend here. Also we are now in a global economy and many Thais trade over the Internet and International sales account for a large share of this financial independence.

On the other hand, many, many more farangs I see in Thailand now are of the kii-nok variety with very little money to their names and just barely getting by living in Thailand.

Also a lot of farangs only know BG's and low-class people that they meet in bars in Isaan, etc. so they really don't have a true understanding of how average middle-class Thais live. Even the Karen woman who cleans my house has her kids in a very good private school in Chiang Mai. So yes, some farangs do have an exaggerated sense of their importance here in the Kingdom.

When Germany or Russia or Japan wants to make something they go out and make it. When Thailand wants to make something they go out and buy it from another country. That is not because they are stupid it is because they are a little country. Thailand has demonstrated they would rather be poor and uneducated than become a client state of a larger nation on a number of occasions through history.

Depending on what percent you use as a multiplier the real economic impact of tourism is between 20 and 30% of GNP. Any country that loses between 20 and 30% of revenue is in big trouble.

Thailand also has a very large auto export business that is heavily Dependant of foreign management and supplies.

Thailand does not make the machinery to assemble autos nor the machine tools to produce the parts.

Anecdotes about the wealth of your neighbors is hardly hard economic data. Thailand like most countries is very dependent of larger countries for means of production. Thailand only supplies the labor not the research and development or any complicated production machinery. Making a car is pretty simple making the machinery to turn a block of metal into an engine is not.

Go into any Thai manufacturing facility and see how much of the equipment necessary for production was made in Thailand.

I don't know if you know how stuff is made but I will give you one example to illustrate.

Take something simple like a gear. First you make a machine and then you make a tool. You put the tool in the machine and it cuts, or shapes or shaves steel to make a gear. Thailand does not have the capability to make the machine or the machine tool so it imports those from other countries and also the iron and steel to make the products. So Thailand like it or not is heavily dependent on other countries for its means of production.

It is not about bar girls or Issan it is about production. Thailand can put together parts of a numbered puzzle but it can't make the puzzle yet.

Perhaps someday Thailand will invest in the necessary physical and intellectual infrastructure but for now they rely on foreign assistance.

[samran]

Go into any Thai manufacturing facility and see how much of the equipment necessary for production was made in Thailand.

I don't know if you know how stuff is made but I will give you one example to illustrate.

Take something simple like a gear. First you make a machine and then you make a tool. You put the tool in the machine and it cuts, or shapes or shaves steel to make a gear. Thailand does not have the capability to make the machine or the machine tool so it imports those from other countries and also the iron and steel to make the products. So Thailand like it or not is heavily dependent on other countries for its means of production.

It is not about bar girls or Issan it is about production. Thailand can put together parts of a numbered puzzle but it can't make the puzzle yet.

Perhaps someday Thailand will invest in the necessary physical and intellectual infrastructure but for now they rely on foreign assistance.

Yeah, I really think you have got it wrong.

Firstly, just about every country in the world gets something from somewhere else. It is called globalisation. The car industry in LOS has inputs from South Africa, Germany, Australia and Japan...and vice versa. The global supply chain allows companies to source things from where they are best made, for the best price. Location is irrelevant these days. Quality is.

Thailand churns out oodles of engineers and well trained personnel. They might not be the ones who do the fixit jobs around the house, or repair your car, but walk into the umpteen consulting engineering firms, refineries, factories, and you'll see plenty of well trained Thai's doing exactly the jobs you describe as being 'missing' from Thailand. I've seen more than a few Thai trained petroleum engineers working outside of Thailand, as well as finance executives.

I just went to a seminar the other week, where an Australian company who supplies the big boys (Ford, the Japanese makers) set up shop in Thailand. Initially they planned to produce low tech inputs however they quickly found that it was possible to produce the precisioned engineered stuff without a problem using exclusively Thai staff. They now export from Thailand as well.

This is a story I see repeated often.

But, to repeat a theme from an earlier post, if you don't move in those circles, you simple don't see it. And all you are left with is the 200 baht a day electrician who has totally mis-wired your place to get an impression of skill levels.

[samran]

... not much would change.

The honest bottom line. Many Farang fear that "their way" and influence would be missed. I doubt it.

Agree with you

The problem I've with this thread is by "foreigners" people assume "westerners"

Japanese and Chinese have always been much welcomed in the kingdom. Actually they were actively asked to come. Most industries are either controlled by Japanese or Chinese, westerners only sponsors bars. No big deal if they leave ....

Well, lets not forget the treaty of Amity which gives American firms some pretty good advantages.

The 2004 Australia-Thailand FTA gives Australian firms some pretty distinct advantages. Australian mining firm Kingsgate is a bit of a darling of the gold mining sector....kicking lots of goals in Thailand.

Sure there are always going to be your plonkers who think that the bar scene is a great retirement plan, but though numerous, are hardly representative of where the money is made.

[mark45y]

Go into any Thai manufacturing facility and see how much of the equipment necessary for production was made in Thailand.

I don't know if you know how stuff is made but I will give you one example to illustrate.

Take something simple like a gear. First you make a machine and then you make a tool. You put the tool in the machine and it cuts, or shapes or shaves steel to make a gear. Thailand does not have the capability to make the machine or the machine tool so it imports those from other countries and also the iron and steel to make the products. So Thailand like it or not is heavily dependent on other countries for its means of production.

It is not about bar girls or Issan it is about production. Thailand can put together parts of a numbered puzzle but it can't make the puzzle yet.

Perhaps someday Thailand will invest in the necessary physical and intellectual infrastructure but for now they rely on foreign assistance.

Yeah, I really think you have got it wrong.

Firstly, just about every country in the world gets something from somewhere else. It is called globalisation. The car industry in LOS has inputs from South Africa, Germany, Australia and Japan...and vice versa. The global supply chain allows companies to source things from where they are best made, for the best price. Location is irrelevant these days. Quality is.

Thailand churns out oodles of engineers and well trained personnel. They might not be the ones who do the fixit jobs around the house, or repair your car, but walk into the umpteen consulting engineering firms, refineries, factories, and you'll see plenty of well trained Thai's doing exactly the jobs you describe as being 'missing' from Thailand. I've seen more than a few Thai trained petroleum engineers working outside of Thailand, as well as finance executives.

I just went to a seminar the other week, where an Australian company who supplies the big boys (Ford, the Japanese makers) set up shop in Thailand. Initially they planned to produce low tech inputs however they quickly found that it was possible to produce the precisioned engineered stuff without a problem using exclusively Thai staff. They now export from Thailand as well.

This is a story I see repeated often.

But, to repeat a theme from an earlier post, if you don't move in those circles, you simple don't see it. And all you are left with is the 200 baht a day electrician who has totally mis-wired your place to get an impression of skill levels.

Globalization. Everyone depends on everyone else. No one can make anything alone. We are all interconnected,

No.

There are industrial countries that make machines and machine tools (in broad terms). Those are the things that make everything else.

There are two approaches to making things if you don't have them. 1. You can simply buy the things to make the product. This is what Thailand does. 2. You can buy a license to manufacture the machines that make the product. This is what Germany does.

Germany can exist doing everything in German. China can exist manufacturing everything in Chinese. Thailand can't exist without adopting another language for education, production, research and development. The knowledge base is not there in Thai. Of course language is only one small problem the larger problem is how do you start.

Thailand falls into that group of nations that are heavily dependent on technology from other countries. Nothing wrong with that. A lot of other countries are in the same boat. But to say they are not more heavily dependent on foreign technology than more industrialized nations is not correct.

In the 1960s there were only eight public universities offering baccalaureate engineering programs and most of those were in civil engineering.

The first university in Thailand, namely Chulalongkorn University, was established only 80 years ago.

Only a few institutes in Thailand, such as Sirindhorn International Institute of Technology of Thammasat University, Assumption University (ABAC), and Asian University of Science and Technology (AUST), offer international bachelor degree programs in engineering in English.

You really can't expect miracles. You don't go from almost nothing in 1960 to a fully functioning industrial society 40 years later, especially without a lot of foreign assistance that Thailand has refused. The attitude of most Thais is reflective of your own, to pretend the problem does not exist.

Thailand needs help and that help comes from other countries. You can put all the raw materials for an airplane in a factory with a whole lot of bright Thai people and an airplane is not going to get built.

Again the dominant theme is foreign assistance until Thais can build, manufacture and develop things on their own. My God man most of Thailand was using water buffaloes for transportation when Germany was building rocket ships. Give it some time.

[samran]

Again the dominant theme is foreign assistance until Thais can build, manufacture and develop things on their own. My God man most of Thailand was using water buffaloes for transportation when Germany was building rocket ships. Give it some time.

Thanks for that, Bones.

[scotbeve]

It would depend on the reasons for most leaving. However I would probably be happy to be amongst that 10%. Especially if by forginers you mean everyone who is not Thai, (ie Chinese, Burmese, all other Asians as well)

It would certainly be interesting however, I can't imagine a positive scenario in which that would happen.

But you sound like you think that without the few pennies some old farangs toss up too Issan for their x-bar girls is gonna make some kind of meaningful, even measurable difference to the economy, and thats just funny.

And then there's the old (savvy) foreigners that bring in say.... 5,000,000baht ++ per year and spend / invest here, keep 20 or so people working, and donate to needy causes regularly..... Pennies my butt!, son!!!! For years..........