FireInTheSky Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) ประเทศ // เล่น etc why does the เ sound like a แ in these words.. I mean they don't sound like the เ in let's say เวร or เด่น or something like that. Is it because of the falling tone? I havent ever read anything about a rule that changes เ to แ in falling tone syllables though but I just wanna make it sure tnx for help Edited April 1, 2011 by FireInTheSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireInTheSky Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Oh and before I forget; same thing with the word เก๊ก per example. The เ vowel is seemingly pronounced as being a short vowel (as opposed to the long เ) and again I have never read about any rule that changes long vowels to be short vowels under certain circumstances so this is a bit confusing for me Most of the time I just copycat the way Thai people say it though but I just cannot predict these kind of things... are there any rules for it that I am just unaware of? Also; I was reading this book; Beansprout & Firehead (if you like graphic novels its a fun read) and there is this dog who is called บุบบิบ and I got corrected by lotsa Thai people pronouncing it as บุบบิ๊บ instead while the tonemarker is obviously unwritten and just by rules it says that it should be pronounced as a lowtone -midclass consonant ending @ stopfinal. I bet I am missing the gist of something but I haven't come across anything that clarifies this kind of stuff.. yet Edited April 2, 2011 by FireInTheSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppy Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 See this: Post #8, by Rikker, is especially helpful. Note that the sound in words like เล่น isn't actually changing from เอ to แอ, but rather to เอะ (i.e. a short เอ). To hear the difference, get a Thai to read the following to you: "เลน เล็น แลน แล็น" -- เล่น sounds like the second word here, but with a falling tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireInTheSky Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Super super tnx for that I really appreciate it. Just wanted to check if there was something that I didn't know (as opposed to them being so called "exceptions") and seems there was. Again: Tnx a lot! 1. Variation in Vowel Duration Some Thai words are pronounced with a short-duration vowel although the Thai spelling would seem to indicate a long-duration. This most often occurs with words that use the vowel เ-- along with any written tone mark: Here we go Thank god I wasn't off with my pronounciation in every day conversation but jeez I never knew about this rule until know Edited April 2, 2011 by FireInTheSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecoli Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 No. ประเทศ and เล่น don't sound like แ. Not at all. They really sound like เวร or เด่น. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireInTheSky Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) No. ประเทศ and เล่น don't sound like แ. Not at all. They really sound like เวร or เด่น. Just asked my girlfriend for pronunciation of these words; เด่น is pronounced like เก่ง with a เอะ rather than a เอ เวร is like เอ as you would expect it would sound I will upload a recording of these words soon. How I understand it is; เ in a mid tone word or syllable = เอ เ in a word or syllable with a tonemark changes into a เอะ rather than an เอ But ประเทศ doesnt have a tonemark but does have a falling tone syllable so it might change according to tone rather than according to tone mark. My girlfriend is a native from นครปฐม by the way, maybe it might have something to do with that? I will fix a recording soon done by several native speakers to put this stuff together and upload it to youtube so it becomes more apparent what I mean and the small differences Edited April 14, 2011 by FireInTheSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecoli Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Maybe the way you learn my language is different from the way I learn. Since she is from central of Thailand, I think you won't get weird accents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireInTheSky Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 I just get a recording online soon. Maybe I am just deaf and I hear differences that aren't really there I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireInTheSky Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) Edit: double 2; my internet got strange and I posted one post like 4 times.. sorry for inconvenience Edited April 14, 2011 by FireInTheSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireInTheSky Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) Edit: double 3; my internet got strange and I posted one post like 4 times.. sorry for inconvenience Edited April 14, 2011 by FireInTheSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireInTheSky Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) Double srr Edited April 14, 2011 by FireInTheSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecoli Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Your girlfriend is right and her explanation is optimal. (I just read over it. LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecoli Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Or read it over ? -*- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireInTheSky Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) Well it is basically how I understood it; I asked somebody else and she said it was depending on ตัวสะดก (final consonant), ไม้ไต่คู้ and วรรณยุกต์ (tonemark)But thats basically the same as saying it depends on tje tone because all of these influence the tone of the syllable or word. Therefor my conclusion of midtone syllable which includes เ . เ is pronounced as เ Other tone syllable (due to a tonemark or ตัวสะดก or whatever) = เ pronounced as เอะ The recording I am gonna present includes the following words spoken out loudly by a speaker from Isaan and my girlfriend from นครปฐม ประเทศ เทศ เทศ เวร เวร เล่น เล่น เวร เวร Edited April 14, 2011 by FireInTheSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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