Certifying Marriage Certificate?

[shadyacres29]

Hi there

Does anybody know the procedure please for certifying our marriage certificate in th UK. We live in Reading.

We did not have time to go to the MFA in Bangkok before we submitted our visa application so will need to do now we are both here together in the UK. Just to make sure everything is legal and correct.

Her flight is now booked for tuesday the 19th April and i cant explain the feeling after waiting nearly 3 years for our time to arrive and make the correct appl;ication.

Kind Regards.

[7by7]

What do you mean by 'certifying' your marriage certificate?

If you mean the translation, then the agency that translated it (usually) would have stamped and signed it as a true translation. This is acceptable in the UK, there is no need for further certification of the translation by the Thai MFA or anyone else.

As for making everything legal and correct; if the marriage is legal and correct in Thailand, then it is also legal and correct in the UK. The original Thai marriage certificate is proof of this (though a translation will obviously be useful).

[shadyacres29]

What do you mean by 'certifying' your marriage certificate?

If you mean the translation, then the agency that translated it (usually) would have stamped and signed it as a true translation. This is acceptable in the UK, there is no need for further certification of the translation by the Thai MFA or anyone else.

As for making everything legal and correct; if the marriage is legal and correct in Thailand, then it is also legal and correct in the UK. The original Thai marriage certificate is proof of this (though a translation will obviously be useful).

Thanks 7by7.

What the officer at the Amphur office in Bang Rak said was that we should go to the MFA to get the marriage certificate stamped to make it a legal document. we did not do this as it was not needed for our Settlement application but we are thinkin now that the marriage is not legal as we did not get the certificate stamped in the first instance.

Obviously we wish it to be legal annd will also help with life here in the uk with doctors and and other things.

Have i missed something? sorry if this is the case.

Kind regards

[thecatman]

Thanks 7by7.

What the officer at the Amphur office in Bang Rak said was that we should go to the MFA to get the marriage certificate stamped to make it a legal document. we did not do this as it was not needed for our Settlement application but we are thinkin now that the marriage is not legal as we did not get the certificate stamped in the first instance.

Obviously we wish it to be legal annd will also help with life here in the uk with doctors and and other things.

Have i missed something? sorry if this is the case.

Kind regards

I think that the officer at the Amphur was referring to a translation copy of the marriage certificate. Taking that to the Thai MFA and getting it stamped then makes it a legal document.

I done this, although as 7by7 pointed out, it's not necessary and the translated marriage certificate with the translators stamp/signature on it (backed up with your original marriage certificate) should suffice if anyone ever wishes to see it.

Your original marriage certificate needs no stamping at MFA (or any where else). It is already a legal document.

Edited April 6, 2011 by thecatman

[InterestedObserver]

Your original marriage certificate needs no stamping at MFA (or any where else). It is already a legal document.

All Thai origin documents, including translations, need to be stamped by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in order to begin the legalization process for another country.

[7by7]

Maybe for some countries, InterestedObserver, but not for the UK.

I repeat; we have the original certificate supplied by the ampur and a translation certified as correct by the bureau that translated it. Neither of these have been stamped by the Thai MFA and both have proved acceptable on all occasions when we have needed to produce our marriage certificate in the UK; which wasn't often as my wife's passport and visa were usually sufficient, e.g. registering at a GP, obtaining a NI number etc.

Under the Foreign Marriages Act of 1892, all marriages that are legal in the country where they took place are also legal in the UK. Once you have registered your marriage at the ampur then, as far as the UK is concerned, no further 'legalization' is necessary.

I notice that you spell legalisation with a z; maybe this means that you are American and the law is different there?

[InterestedObserver]

Maybe for some countries, InterestedObserver, but not for the UK.

I repeat; we have the original certificate supplied by the ampur and a translation certified as correct by the bureau that translated it. Neither of these have been stamped by the Thai MFA and both have proved acceptable on all occasions when we have needed to produce our marriage certificate in the UK; which wasn't often as my wife's passport and visa were usually sufficient, e.g. registering at a GP, obtaining a NI number etc.

Under the Foreign Marriages Act of 1892, all marriages that are legal in the country where they took place are also legal in the UK. Once you have registered your marriage at the ampur then, as far as the UK is concerned, no further 'legalization' is necessary.

I notice that you spell legalisation with a z; maybe this means that you are American and the law is different there?

Check out this link: Document Legalization UK.

[GarryP]

Many years ago (more than 20) I had my marriage (to a Thai who still happens to be my wife ) in Thailand officially endorsed in the UK. To do so, I needed to get a certified translation, which was endorsed by both the British Embassy and MOFA. This was then sent via the embassy to the UK and a few eeks later I received document showing that the marriage had been offically lodged with the something or other office (General Register Office perhaps) in London. Can't recall why I went through all that hooplah but I did. I have never had to use the bloody thing. Probably sounded good at the time.

[beano2274]

If in Bangkok you can pass your Marriage Certificate to the Embassy to be registered with the GRO in the UK, it costs money and am not sure if a translation is required; as they know what they are looking at in Bangkok and just need to attach a letter of confirmation to the GRO.

[7by7]

Check out this link

A commercial company offering a legalisation/notary service to 'legalise' UK documents for use outside the UK. Whether this service is required, I don't know; I guess it depends on the requirements of the country one will be using the UK documents in.

I repeat; as far as the UK is concerned, a Thai marriage certificate is a legal document.

Using the British embassy ( or any other means) to lodge a copy of your marriage certificate with the General Records Office does not 'legalise' it; it is already a legal document. Neither does it register the marriage in the UK. Doing so simply means that there is a copy of it available to you in the UK should you need it.

From How to register a marriage

The marriage will only be recognised under UK law if it is valid under Thai law. For it to be valid in Thai law, the marriage must be registered with the Registrar at an Amphur office (District Office).................

The Thai marriage certificate will be in Thai language only. You may wish to commission a "sworn translation" of the marriage certificate from license translators, so that you can use the document for legal purposes in the U.K. Please note the certificate is a legal document and should not be modified e.g. by laminating...................

It is not a legal requirement that you have your Thai marriage certificate deposited with the General Register Office (GRO) in the UK......................

Please note that applicants are not required to submit a GRO certified marriage certificate with their UK visa application. The UKBA, Bangkok will accept original Thai marriage certificates as proof of marriage, if accompanied with a certified translation........................

No mention of having the translation certified by the MFA; no mention of any further legalisation process once in the UK. This is because both are not necessary; as the experience of myself and countless others proves.

[Bangkokhatter]

I have to agree with 7by7, I never had my marriage certified in the UK, never had the marriage certificate translated and my wife just used her visa and passport to register with a doctor and to obtain an N.I number, all done very easily and as previously stated all Legal.

[InterestedObserver]

From the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website:

Can I register an overseas marriage in the UK when I return?

No, but you can have your marriage documents deposited with the General Register Office (GRO).

This isn't compulsory, but it means your marriage certificate is kept by the GRO as an official record and you will be able to easily get copies of it in the future.

We can deposit marriage documents for you.

Please note: you'll need to get your documents translated if they're not in English.

One of the requirements for deposit with the GRO is that the translated marriage documents must be certified by the Consulate in the country where you were married.

Edited April 7, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[thecatman]

One of the requirements for deposit with the GRO is that the translated marriage documents must be certified by the Consulate in the country where you were married.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but could you please show me where it says this. I couldn't find where it says this in any of the pages I've looked at.

I took a look at the 'Deposit of Marriage certificate' form in this link and could see where it says that 'certified translations' (if not in English) were needed in the check list, but nothing about them being certified by the consulate in the Country where the marriage took place.

In my understanding a certified translation and a legalised translation are 2 different things.

Anyway, doesn't the whole 'depositing with the GRO procedure' all seems a bit pointless??

[InterestedObserver]

From post #10:

The Thai marriage certificate will be in Thai language only. You may wish to commission a "sworn translation" of the marriage certificate from license translators, so that you can use the document for legal purposes in the U.K.

That would be the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs legalization part.

From post # 13:

In my understanding a certified translation and a legalised translation are 2 different things.

The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs is the only Thai agency authorized to certify documents, including translations, for legal use in a foreign country.

Edited April 7, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[bifftastic]

One of the requirements for deposit with the GRO is that the translated marriage documents must be certified by the Consulate in the country where you were married.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but could you please show me where it says this. I couldn't find where it says this in any of the pages I've looked at.

I took a look at the 'Deposit of Marriage certificate' form in this link and could see where it says that 'certified translations' (if not in English) were needed in the check list, but nothing about them being certified by the consulate in the Country where the marriage took place.

In my understanding a certified translation and a legalised translation are 2 different things.

Anyway, doesn't the whole 'depositing with the GRO procedure' all seems a bit pointless??

Yes, it is pointless. There are no agencies in the UK, doctors, tax office, social security, schools colleges etc. who even care if your married or not. Marriage doesn't have any bearing on your status in the UK, they're only ever going to be interested in your visa status (as a foreign national). You either have leave to remain, or you don't. So they will only ever want to see your passport.

The only reason for getting a translation would be for the UK visa application itself, and then I'm not sure an MFA stamp is required.

Edited April 7, 2011 by bifftastic

[thecatman]

The only reason for getting a translation would be for the UK visa application itself, and then I'm not sure an MFA stamp is required.

No Biff. The MFA stamp is not required for your visa application.

In fact some say even the translation is not required...but that's another can of worms (worth having anyway IMO).

Edited April 7, 2011 by thecatman

[7by7]

InterestedObserver, you are wrong.

The 'sworn translation' and the 'certified translation' referred to in the embassy link I quoted are 'sworn' and 'certified' by the translator who certified them. This is acceptable for any purpose for which a translation by be required in the UK.

It may not make the translation a legal document; but the original Thai marriage certificate is a legal document as far as the UK authorities are concerned.

There is nothing in the immigration rules or any other UK government publication which says that either the original certificate or any translation of same has to be certified by the Thai MFA, nor in any way 'legalised' once in the UK.

If one wishes to deposit a copy of one's marriage certificate with the GRO there is also no need to have it certified by the Thai MFA or any British consular official.

If you still think you are right and everyone else is wrong, please show us where any (UK or Thai) government information or guidance supports your position.

[InterestedObserver]

From post #17:

If one wishes to deposit a copy of one's marriage certificate with the GRO there is also no need to have it certified by the Thai MFA or any British consular official.

From the Foreign and Commenwealth website:

Your marriage/civil partnership certificate will then be sent to the British Consulate in the district where the marriage took place.

After certifying the certificate the Consulate will then forward it onto the General Register Office (GRO). The GRO will write to inform you that the documents have been deposited. Please note it can take 2-3 months for the certificate to reach the GRO from our Consulate.

Edited April 7, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[7by7]

OK, I'll give you that one; but depositing the certificate is not a legal requirement and has no bearing on the legality of the marriage.

Do you concede that the rest of your assertions are incorrect?

[bifftastic]

From post #17:

If one wishes to deposit a copy of one's marriage certificate with the GRO there is also no need to have it certified by the Thai MFA or any British consular official.

From the Foreign and Commenwealth website:

Your marriage/civil partnership certificate will then be sent to the British Consulate in the district where the marriage took place.

After certifying the certificate the Consulate will then forward it onto the General Register Office (GRO). The GRO will write to inform you that the documents have been deposited. Please note it can take 2-3 months for the certificate to reach the GRO from our Consulate.

So, after you've jumped through all these extra hoops, and your translated, certified copy of your already legal marriage has been deposited in the GRO, you wait the three months and then....what exactly? How is the marriage of someone who has done this different from the marriage of someone who hasn't?

I can answer that for you if you like...it isn't Other than, if you want a copy from the GRO of your translated marriage certificate, you will have to pay them for it!

If you want an English copy of your marriage certificate, just get a translation, and keep it. Why deposit it in the GRO? It adds absolutely nothing to the status of either the UK national or their foreign spouse.

If you like hoops then, by all means, jump through a few more, up to you.

[Contractor]

Wife in UK on Entry Clearance (Spouse) visa.

Am applying for a Schengen visa and instructions on website re documents state:

"Original and copy of the marriage certificate (Non EU documents must be legalised according to the 1961 Hague convention)"

Any ideas on what "legalised" means exactly? Depositing with the GRO?

Thanks

[InterestedObserver]

Wife in UK on Entry Clearance (Spouse) visa.

Am applying for a Schengen visa and instructions on website re documents state:

"Original and copy of the marriage certificate (Non EU documents must be legalised according to the 1961 Hague convention)"

Any ideas on what "legalised" means exactly? Depositing with the GRO?

Thanks

I'm assuming your wife is Thai and you were legally married in Thailand. Then the Thai marriage certificate, obtained when you registered the marriage at the local Amphur, must be translated by an authorized translator and certified (legalised) by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok.

[Yarco]

Thailand was not a signatory to the 1961 Hague convention, so an apostille certificate is not obtainable in Thailand.

When my wife has applied for schengen visas in the past a translated copy of the marriage certificate from the amphur legalised by the MFA in Bangkok was a requirement.

If outside of Thailand, the Thai embassy / consulate in the country of residence should be able to legalise a translation if it is required.

[Contractor]

Thanks both. The picture is clearer.

Yes, we were married in Thailand and have since read (on other sites) some rather contradictory statements about this document legalisation issue.

Rgds

[InterestedObserver]

Thanks both. The picture is clearer.

Yes, we were married in Thailand and have since read (on other sites) some rather contradictory statements about this document legalisation issue.

Rgds

Would you care to share the contradictory statements?

[Madivad]

Would you care to share the contradictory statements?

One only has to read this thread... Contradictory and confusing to say the least

[7by7]

Probably because the topic is about two different things!

The OP asked about UK requirements, then Contractor asked about Schengen requirements.

The UK considers the original Thai marriage certificate to be a legal document and no further 'legalization' (sic) is required by the UK authorities.

Equally, for any legal purpose in the UK where a translation may be needed, all that is required is :

• confirmation from the translator that it is an accurate translation of the original document
• the date of the translation
• the translator's full name and signature
• The translator's contact details

Schengen rules are different.

As previously said by Yarco, if married outside the EU all that is needed for a Schengen application is, according to the French embassy, an authentication stamp from either the foreign ministry in the country where married, or that country's embassy in the EU country where one is living. In this case the MFA in Bangkok or the RTE in London.

[Yarco]

IMO if you are a British citizen married to a Thai, although as far as UK requirements are concerned the MFA certified translation of your marriage certificate is not necessary as per 7by7’s post, I would say it is definitely worth considering getting one.

Not only in case of any possible future schengen visa applications that your partner may make, but also for the unexpected events that life tends to throw at us.

An example of which happened to my wife last year when we were flying via Holland to the UK, shortly after we arrived in Amsterdam the airport was closed due to the volcanic ash cloud. My wife applied for a 24hr entry visa to allow her to leave the airport. Fortunately in our hand luggage was a legalised copy of our certificate which was requested by the officer to prove her marriage to an EU citizen.

So in that case it was worth having one as it made the difference between spending the night in a hotel and sleeping on the floor in the airport.

[bifftastic]

It's true that it might be useful for an unforseen event.

However, on enquiring to the German Embassy about a Schengen visa for my wife, I received this reply;

"thank you for your Email. In order to obtain your desired visa, your wife needs to present the following documents:

- her passport with the UK family visit visa

- the marriage certificate with a German translation

- a copy of your passport

- documents proving sufficient health insurance for the time being in Germany.

Your wife can file an application for the visa personally at the embassy.

Please find attached a document with certified translators.

If you have further questions, feel free to contact the embassy.

--

Best regards

- Im Auftrag -"

No mention of the translation being certified at the MFA, only that it should be translated by an embassy approved translator. Perhaps that's just the Germans though?