Have U Changed

[bggg]

I noticed a comment in one of the other threads along these lines and it struck me as I had just had this same type of conversation with a friend. I think I have changed a lot since coming to live here. Don't know how much is Thailand and how much is expat life since this is the only place I have lived abroad. I think my views on many subjects have definatley broadened. How can it really be any other way when I now socialize with people from many different countries and backgrounds. I find myself referring to my countryfolk back home as a separate group from myself. Some say when you become an expat you can reinvent yourself anyway you choose. No one has to know anything about you other then what you want to tell them. I don't look at it that way, but definately I feel no pressure to be any way other then exactly as I want to be. At home while I was my own person I still felt pressured at times to conform to certain things. Some times the pressure coming from family, friends, or co-workers. I feel the relaxed lifestyle enables me to be more of the type of wife and mother I have always wanted to be. What do some of the rest of you think? Have you changed?

[Ice Maiden]

I noticed a comment in one of the other threads along these lines and it struck me as I had just had this same type of conversation with a friend. I think I have changed a lot since coming to live here. Don't know how much is Thailand and how much is expat life since this is the only place I have lived abroad. I think my views on many subjects have definatley broadened. How can it really be any other way when I now socialize with people from many different countries and backgrounds. I find myself referring to my countryfolk back home as a separate group from myself. Some say when you become an expat you can reinvent yourself anyway you choose. No one has to know anything about you other then what you want to tell them. I don't look at it that way, but definately I feel no pressure to be any way other then exactly as I want to be. At home while I was my own person I still felt pressured at times to conform to certain things. Some times the pressure coming from family, friends, or co-workers. I feel the relaxed lifestyle enables me to be more of the type of wife and mother I have always wanted to be. What do some of the rest of you think? Have you changed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think no expat can get away with not adjusting to a new enviroment.

Have I changed? I'd say since seeing such things as poverty I have learnt to be more grateful of many things. Talking about poverty is one thing but actually being a witness to such an enviroment is a different aspect all together. It is also daily in which I see many different nationalities on the streets of Pattaya so it is only natural I would find myself speaking to some of the many cultures and each time I have a convosation with one of these people I learn something new everytime. Depending on how I use this newly learnt knowledge decides if I change or not. I guess I do have a headstart in life living abroad at my age because there are so many possibilites over here.

So I'll now answer you question. Yes, I believe I have changed but it will be a benefit to me so early in my life aswell as to anyone else regardless of what age too. Managing to be an expat is such a great, positive experience.

Edited September 27, 2005 by Ice Maiden

[seonai]

Goes without saying that you change when you travel. Nothing about us is permanent.

Ice what on earth are you doing in Pattaya??????

seonai

[Ice Maiden]

Goes without saying that you change when you travel. Nothing about us is permanent.

Ice what on earth are you doing in Pattaya??????

seonai

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Living here. Don't worry I'm not a sexpat

[sbk]

It's funny, I was just laughing about this with someone. We were talking about how patient one becomes after living here for awhile and he was quite surprised when I told him, "yes I have become more patient while my husband has become more impatient!" It's true, I have learned to control my temper (formidable, I come from a family of redheads), to be patient and accept things I cannot change (as the old AA prayer says: "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference"--the accepting part was always hard for me). Whereas he has become more impatient, more easily annoyed and irritated and rails against all things that drive him crazy in this country (queuing, driving, corruption etc etc). He has started telling people who cut the queue to get in the back. He also yells at other drivers now, esp when they nearly hit him. Needless to say, alot of his relatives think he is slowly going around the bend

[johnh101]

Living here. Don't worry I'm not a sexpat 

I Like It !

[bggg]

It's funny, I was just laughing about this with someone. We were talking about how patient one becomes after living here for awhile and he was quite surprised when I told him, "yes I have become more patient  while my husband has become more impatient!" It's true, I have learned to control my temper (formidable, I come from a family of redheads),  to be patient and accept things I cannot change (as the old AA prayer says: "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference"--the accepting part was always hard for me). Whereas he has become more impatient, more easily annoyed and irritated and rails against all things that drive him crazy in this country (queuing, driving, corruption etc etc). He has started telling people who cut the queue to get in the back. He also yells at other drivers now, esp when they nearly hit him. Needless to say, alot of his relatives think he is slowly going around the bend

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My husbands patience level has increased dramatically in our almost 6 years here. Now when I do ocassionally loose my cool he is the one telling me to calm down. This is a miracle for him as he has always been quick tempered. Ice, one ofthe greatest gifts I feel I have given my children both the 2 young ones in school here and our grown children (25) has been the experience of living here.

[Soph]

It's funny, I was just laughing about this with someone. We were talking about how patient one becomes after living here for awhile and he was quite surprised when I told him, "yes I have become more patient  while my husband has become more impatient!" It's true, I have learned to control my temper (formidable, I come from a family of redheads),  to be patient and accept things I cannot change (as the old AA prayer says: "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference"--the accepting part was always hard for me). Whereas he has become more impatient, more easily annoyed and irritated and rails against all things that drive him crazy in this country (queuing, driving, corruption etc etc). He has started telling people who cut the queue to get in the back. He also yells at other drivers now, esp when they nearly hit him. Needless to say, alot of his relatives think he is slowly going around the bend

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im with sbk, I have learnt patience, and how to keep calm. I remember before I left the UK, being caught up in the rat race, working myself to the ground, and also partying hardcore at every opportunity. I used to fly into a rage if I couldnt find my coat on the hanger in the morning, that kind of thing.

Road rage in a big way, and generally being a very unpleasant person to be around when stress levels started to rise. I gave my family ######.

Now, even when I have been living back in the UK, I have kept my new found patience and freinds and family cant believe what a different more relaxed person I am.

Not all the time mind you, but nothing like before. And I like the new me

[kat]

Ice, one ofthe greatest gifts I feel I have given my children both the 2 young ones in school here and our grown children (25) has been the experience of living here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In Pattaya? There is no way I would raise children in Pattaya, not to mention an adolescent girl - if in fact you are a teenage girl, Icey, which I doubt.

If you are, you have my apologies in advance, and my sympathy, which I know you don't need. Pattaya is not the place for children, even though there are plenty of them down there.

Sorry, ladies; I'll stop my little rant now.

[camerata]

Assuming you came here on your own initiative, the biggest change for an expat is that after a number of years you realise this is your home and you couldn't go back to the West - that after years of being slightly irritated at being treated differently from other people, you now actually enjoy it.

For me, part of this change was that I came to enjoy the laid-back, non-competitive working environment in Thailand, part of it was that I reached an age when it would be difficult to find a job "back home" (which was a boring place anyway), and part of it was that it is surprisingly easy to become a "somebody" in an expat community.

If anyone had told me 22 years ago (I was a taxi driver at the time) that one day I would be a senior executive at a public company and female staff would give a little curtsy when they passed me in the corridor, I would have thought they were insane...

[bggg]

Ice, one ofthe greatest gifts I feel I have given my children both the 2 young ones in school here and our grown children (25) has been the experience of living here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In Pattaya? There is no way I would raise children in Pattaya, not to mention an adolescent girl - if in fact you are a teenage girl, Icey, which I doubt.

If you are, you have my apologies in advance, and my sympathy, which I know you don't need. Pattaya is not the place for children, even though there are plenty of them down there.

Sorry, ladies; I'll stop my little rant now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this Kat. I cannot stand to be in Pattaya myself let alone with children of any age. My 1st experience there was shortly after we arrived to live in Thailand. My husband and I tried to go for a walk and find someplace to eat. We returned to our hotel after being disgusted with all the proposals for sex shows and clubs. Thank goodness we had left the children at the hotel with the maid.

[kat]

It would have been worse to be solicited for sex by children, which is just as common as the sex shows.

Anyway, how have I changed? I am much more aware of issues of gender and sexual violence than I was when I first arrived.

[samran]

In no particular order (an on a lighter note )

Being an expat in Thailand has made me:

Less tolerant of washing and ironing - I can't wait to hire someone to do that again when I move back!!

Uncomfortable in paying any more than 20 baht for a bowl of noodles (or 25 if I am really hungry)

Generally uncomfortable at paying too much for anything in the west, especially when I know that it shouldn’t cost that much.

Generally comfortable with the concept that if I don’t worry about a problem – it generally will go away of its own accord!!!

[yarpy]

I could respond extremely forcefully to the above two posts but I will keep my cool:

1. It is perfectly possible to live in Pattaya and not be propositioned for sex shows. These things are in clearly demarked areas and can easily be avoided. And what is this term 'propositioned' anyway? They ask you if you want to go in and you just say no.

2. Sex shows occur in Go Gos not in the street. Just don't go in. They're frankly pretty dire anyway.

3. I am not saying that child prostitution does not exist but it has been driven DEEP underground by the Thai police and the penalties are severe. The idea of being accosted in the street by a child offering sex is ludicrous. There are Cambodian kids on the street selling gum but they are pickpockets.

4. A teenage falang girl is far safer anywhere in Pattaya than she would be in London. Women are now regularly dragged off the street in broad daylight in London despite the fact its covered in CCTV. After dark in Central London she better be in a pack and armed.

Pattaya isn't one huge Soddom and Gomorrah as people seem to think but if you don't like it don't go there.

Living in Thailand has mellowed me out. I don't now rush to judgement on people or places. Which can not be said of Kat.

[sbk]

Most of your post is

and the rest is just inflammatory.

Play Nice as you so often point out but rarely do.

[kat]

By all means Yarpy, express yourself. You're not doing me any favors either way.

I can understand why people who live in Pattaya would be upset by my above statements. However, if you live there, then you should also know that it is regarded as the largest sex market in the world for a reason. Secondly, it is one of the most open markets for sex with children. If you live in Pattaya and these bare facts escape you, then you are living in a self-deluded haze.

And I was not referring to the actual physical safety of children or adolescents in regards to the pitfalls of raising them in Pattaya.

But most importantly, I did not reach this conclusion about Pattaya in a rush. I have been researching and following the issue of the commercial sex market and child-sex for more than 2 years now.

*edit: And sorry to the mods. I am the guilty party for taking this thread off topic.

Edited September 28, 2005 by kat

[Boo]

I would imagine everyone has their own idea about pattaya & whether it is a nice place or not & only a parent can decide if it is a good place for their children to be. One of the reasons I left samui (one of many I will add) was I didn't want to have or bring up my children in that enviroment & I haven't even got any yet. It was a personal choice between my husband & I & one we are happy with but Ices father, for example, must know whats best for his children. But this is all off topic. so back on track pls people

One of the changes I noticed in myself living in LOS was to be more relaxed when dealing with the little mundane things in life, many services in thailand are better than the UK IMO, such as waitng times for doctors, they are non existant in my experience but some other things, such as getting a phone line installed can send a person round the bend, so learning to control my temper & not worrying so much save me from a heart attack (probably)

[zaz]

I'm not quite an expat..yet... but I think I have already changed from the measly 4 times I've been in LOS. I'm a bit more tolerant and calm about the silliest little things that wound me up before. My road rage is a little more controlled...which was a problem! Although I have a knack for the finer things in life and will have to give these up if I'm to come and live in Thailand, I do appreciate what I have and realise that maybe I don't need to be as materialistic as I am. It would be nice to have everything but life's excesses are simply just excess baggage. The people of Thailand inspire me. They survive on relatively miserly wages - they live, they eat, they smile. Maybe there's more than meets the eye but isn't that saying something? I will be giving up a lot to come there which is why it's being so difficult for me to deal with but I just can't get it out of my head that I want to be there. Do I need to change more perhaps? Maybe the actual move will be what I need...

[yarpy]

Kat,

Thank you for saying you took the matter off topic. Sbk as usual just blames the man.

I have a friend who is married to a Thai who'se Uncle is a senior policeman in Pattaya. Straight offer. You pm me evidence, repeat evidence, of what you suggest happens here and I will ensure it is taken to the appropriate person and acted on. Anonymously if necessary.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Did I not say it in my 'Still Celibate' thread? ...That women (of all nationalities) are 'better' in Thailand?

Thailand mellows the soul and could it also be possible that western women in LOS recieve less hassle than they do back home?

[sbk]

Kat,

Thank you for saying you took the matter off topic.  Sbk as usual just blames the man.

I have a friend who is married to a Thai who'se Uncle is a senior policeman in Pattaya.  Straight offer.  You pm me evidence, repeat evidence, of what you suggest happens here and I will ensure it is taken to the appropriate person and acted on.  Anonymously if necessary.

Yarpy, you are starting to annoy me. This is not an official warning YET!!

Actually the off topic was applied to all posters.

[yarpy]

Sbk,

I have decided never to post on this section again. Which I am sure will please you.

This is because of your insane anti-male bias. And before you go off the deep end again read these two posts by you.

1. 'Most of your post is off topic and the rest is just inflammatory. Play Nice as you so often point out but rarely do.'

2. 'Actually the off topic was applied to all posters.'

How could 1. be addressed to anybody but me?

Bye.

[kat]

Did I not say it in my 'Still Celibate' thread? ...That women (of all nationalities) are 'better' in Thailand?

Thailand mellows the soul and could it also be possible that western women in LOS recieve less hassle than they do back home?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a lame rationalization. But hey, no need to try and convince us.

Your shagadelic robot-avatar is smokin', though.

[sbk]

Sbk,

I have decided never to post on this section again.  Which I am sure will please you.

This is because of your insane anti-male bias.  And before you go off the deep end again read these two posts by you. 

1.  'Most of your post is off topic and the rest is just inflammatory. Play Nice as you so often point out but rarely do.'

2.  'Actually the off topic was applied to all posters.'

How could 1. be addressed to anybody but me?

Bye.

You started off on the wrong foot with this piece of bs:

Just in after a night out. Aahh. Sit back surf the net with a Singha. OOH Ladies in Thailand I like those...

Oh its falang ladies, anyhoo...

Hmm kat...

yada yada

I noticed a significant portion of Western men have forgotten how to relate to a woman who is not beholden to him in some way. They are also living in a society that treats men as an unquestioned privileged class, and men with white skin or Western status as some sort of celebrity.

Yeah ###### right...

My suspicion (confirmed) is that so many of them have attracted or sought out women who have an overt or covert economic interest - or view them as the latest fashion accessory - that they have forgotten how to relate to women who have none (uh hu). I think (absolutely confirmed) they are also able to slack off quite a bit here - intellectually, ethically, and socially, which becomes more noticeable when they are interacting with women who were shaped by the same cultural norms (err never do it so don't know), and in general, by a higher standard of education and expectation. Most of these men are in relationships with huge age or status/education differentials, which would not be possible where they are from,

Yeah ###### right...

yada yada

every Thai woman, no matter who she is or what she looks like, is ALWAYS more perfect, etc., etc. than every Western/fa rang woman, no matter who she is, or what she looks like. Most often it is enough that she is Asian or Thai, which is more characteristic of a fetish ([I]yup[/i]), rather than a real assessment.

Yup

Before you flame me, I too think that Thai and Asian women are very beautiful. They have beautiful bodies and bone structures (###### straight) - no argument there.

Yup

yada yada

What a strange site. Just seems to post the blindingly obvious...

Oh well another Singha and then bed.

smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

And finished off on the wrong foot with this piece of tripe;

It was only a joke. Sheesh.

Look we could discuss this topic seriously but I see you've already had 30+ pages of it below and it looks like those who were in entranced positions to begin with stayed there.

Also I find when discussing sexual politics with farang women the responses can all be categorised under one or more of the following headings:

You do not understand the situation, ie she'd only with you for the money, she hates you behind your back etc.

If you understand the situation and say your actually happy with it you must be lieing as you couldn't possibly be happy with such a situation.

If you understand the situation and I accept that your happy with it that is morally repugnant to me so you lose the argument because I say so.

I want my privileged position back and I want you to return to being powerless as you were in the west.

Play nice.

And then, what really got my ire was this piece of crap:

Living in Thailand has mellowed me out. I don't now rush to judgement on people or places. Which can not be said of Kat.

You clearly do rush to judgement by assuming I am anti-male. No, I am not anti-male, in fact I am just anti-a$$holes.

[deus ex machina]

SBK

Do you think it appropriate for a moderator to be so active within the forum.The chap was being reasonable, I thought, but he evidently rubbed you up the wrong way and you indicated that a sanction might ensue unless he altered his attitude.Forgive me for interfering, but I would have thought that such a policy is counterproductive since it inevitably will lead to posts that only meet your personal criteria and consequently some of the dynamism necessary for the survival of any forum may be lost.

Regards

D

[sbk]

Thanks for your opinion but I don't see why I shouldn't be active here, Boo is equally as active but I don't see any criticism of her. If you don't like my moderating style, well that is too bad. I dislike outright flaming of posters on this forum which is what he did.

[cmsally]

The chap was being reasonable, I thought, but he evidently rubbed you up the wrong way and you indicated that a sanction might ensue unless he altered his attitude.

Really?

I thought the topic was - have you changed since becoming an expat?

It turned into another one of those topics that descend into a degenerate mindless slanging match. How often have you started reading a topic where some people can come up with some very good points and arguments and then all of a sudden you get someone on there who just wants an exercise in confrontational antagonism.

Male or female is beside the point; if the forum is to be an informative and entertaining place for the majority, perhaps the minority who try and spoil it for self satisfaction would actually discover it can be far more rewarding if you invite a few of your own brain cells along to participate.

Back to have you changed since becoming an expat? Not really that much even having been here almost 20yrs. There are cultural differences which seem big at first, but human nature is basically the same the world over. You are polite to people they are polite to you. You are polished on the outside but rotten underneath , it will show sooner or later. Actions speak louder than words etc. etc. I think living in any foreign country teaches you to take your queues more from body language, situations etc. It is a another good lesson into the human condition.

[bggg]

The chap was being reasonable, I thought, but he evidently rubbed you up the wrong way and you indicated that a sanction might ensue unless he altered his attitude.

Really?

I thought the topic was - have you changed since becoming an expat?

It turned into another one of those topics that descend into a degenerate mindless slanging match. How often have you started reading a topic where some people can come up with some very good points and arguments and then all of a sudden you get someone on there who just wants an exercise in confrontational antagonism.

Male or female is beside the point; if the forum is to be an informative and entertaining place for the majority, perhaps the minority who try and spoil it for self satisfaction would actually discover it can be far more rewarding if you invite a few of your own brain cells along to participate.

Back to have you changed since becoming an expat? Not really that much even having been here almost 20yrs. There are cultural differences which seem big at first, but human nature is basically the same the world over. You are polite to people they are polite to you. You are polished on the outside but rotten underneath , it will show sooner or later. Actions speak louder than words etc. etc. I think living in any foreign country teaches you to take your queues more from body language, situations etc. It is a another good lesson into the human condition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Sally! All too often a thread begins on an interesting topic. After following it for a short time I come back and it has reached its usual gutter level. At which point I look for a new topic that has yet to hit the gutter. It is a shame!

On the subject of change..... While I agree with what you are saying Sally, I do believe that environment has an impact on most if not all people. Not only from the stand point of what is in the environment around you but sometimes more importantly what is not.

[meemiathai]

SBK

Do you think it appropriate for a moderator to be so active within the forum.The chap was being reasonable, I thought, but he evidently rubbed you up the wrong way and you indicated that a sanction might ensue unless he altered his attitude.Forgive me for interfering, but I would have thought that such a policy is counterproductive since it inevitably will lead to posts that only meet your personal criteria and consequently some of the dynamism necessary for the survival of any forum may be lost.

Regards

D

I second.

But afterall, this is the ladies forum, if you don't like it u just have to leave.

oops! off-topic!

Ok, yes, I've changed. On-topic now. Everything ok?

[sbk]

I wonder how many of the Ladies who post on this forum feel the same as you men??? Frankly, I for one, am extremely tired of the constant need to be defensive on this forum because of men who cannot just butt out of something but have to end up in a slanging match. I could see it coming from this guy and gave him a nice warning, I could have upped his warning level and chose not to but instead gave him a chance to, as he like to put it "play nice". Flaming of Kat was unacceptable. Perhaps I used the wrong terminology but if you men would bother to re read my original post I said he was off topic and made an inflammatory remark about Kat. I am sick of the double standards practiced by the men on this forum and if you don't like the way I moderate it, too bad. Somehow, I doubt the women would agree.

Now that the men have successfully hijacked this thread with their own personal opinions and attacks, lets try to get back on topic.

I will say one thing that has changed in me is I am less tolerant of fools but then that probably has more to do with age than Thailand.