New Honda Fit (Jazz) Hybrid

[Tonykalniev]

Hi guys,

Again, it seems, I will be ranting about electric cars. We have received some time ago, the new Honda Fit (Jazz in Thailand) HYBRID from Japan. It was about January 2011 and our import company has contacted us that the car finally arrived in the Thai seaport and will brought to our house in the next few days. By the way, my mom works for the UN so logically, we bought an environmentally budget car that is, AT LEAST to make my satisfaction, a half electric car. She can get that duty free tax, which is pretty cool and we got the price from Japan whatever it costs there.

So the car came out at a price tag of about 700,000 baht with everything included up to our doorstep. So that is basically cheaper than the top model here in Thailand and it isnt even a hybrid. Statistically, the hybrid car can go 70 miles per gallon, when the normal 1.5 vtec can go 35 miles per gallon. That is half better milage. Sorry, I cant be bothered to calculate the kilometers right now, its too late in the evening.

Anyway, It is a great drive! The car is upgraded with special sound proofing that the normal versions dont have. It has auto-stop, so when you stop at a traffic light, the motor stops, but everything else works - a great benefit because idling your engine in traffic is the worst efficiency of a normal car. Also the car can drive on EV mode from 30km/hr up to 55km/hr for about 5 kilometers until it gives way to the motor to charge the battery. I also really adore the cruise control, working at its most efficient for cruising.

Trunk space is practically similar to the original, with the batteries taking up the spare tire compartment. New controls on the dashboard show EV-Hybrid information (its still in Japanese so I have to ask Honda to update that). And in addition a few cosmetic changes for more aerodynamics.

Yes, I know its not as good as the Toyota Prius, but for the price vs quality vs performance......I am completely and utterly satisfied.

So even if the car enters the Thai market, I reckon it will be launched with a price tag of about 1 million and up. Which in my eyes will be cost cutting as usual (removing heater, special spoilers, no automatic A/C, etc. etc.) and a complete smack in the face to the Thai people BY the Thai lies of "somebody needs to fill their pockets again"...

If you are interested in the car, you can look at the gallery on my profile and if you are really very interested you can contact me by e-mail to set up a day for a test drive (this is only for Honda lovers, technicians, and car technology enthusiasts). In addition, you can read my previous post about electric cars, if you are really interested.

Next step for the Honda is a solar roof package, which I will be going to soon and will keep record...

Thanks

Tony

[juehoe]

Very interesting infomation - thank you! I am really astonished about the low prize after import taxes...! Which is your import company?

In Switzerland I am driving a small electric car (TWIKE III) since 1997. 3 years ago, it was very hard to find a car for me and my Thai wife, which was pleasant to both of us and had the right size (not too big and not too small). We finally bought the Mazda 3 with the 2 litres engine - only because of its better safety equipment...

I am very interested in the Toyota Prius and could test drive the newest model for about 1 month in Switzerland. Its prize is OK for Thailand, but it has quite a small luggage compartment for its size. I am hoping that the newly announced Prius+ «minivan» will also come to Thailand.

[katasyd]

Very interesting infomation - thank you! I am really astonished about the low prize after import taxes...! Which is your import company?

In Switzerland I am driving a small electric car (TWIKE III) since 1997. 3 years ago, it was very hard to find a car for me and my Thai wife, which was pleasant to both of us and had the right size (not too big and not too small). We finally bought the Mazda 3 with the 2 litres engine - only because of its better safety equipment...

I am very interested in the Toyota Prius and could test drive the newest model for about 1 month in Switzerland. Its prize is OK for Thailand, but it has quite a small luggage compartment for its size. I am hoping that the newly announced Prius+ «minivan» will also come to Thailand.

His mother works for the UN, just one of the perks.

Embassy officials also have this luxury.

Why not import something worthwhile if you can bypass the taxes?

Just saying that a Jazz hybrid would be at the bottom of my list if i could get tax free.

[Tonykalniev]

@ katasyd yes you are right on both points. we get the duty free benefit. and yes, we could have gotten something unique like a tesla roadster, but budget was an issue. in addition, if something happens to the car, lets say front bumper damage, we can easily and cheaply replace parts as the jazz is popular in thailand. same issue when getting a unique car. there are so many cool cars out there, we are just scared of maintenance problems.

but we did try to order the nissan leaf, but at that time the preorders were full so we couldnt reserve it...

[katasyd]

@ katasyd yes you are right on both points. we get the duty free benefit. and yes, we could have gotten something unique like a tesla roadster, but budget was an issue. in addition, if something happens to the car, lets say front bumper damage, we can easily and cheaply replace parts as the jazz is popular in thailand. same issue when getting a unique car. there are so many cool cars out there, we are just scared of maintenance problems.

but we did try to order the nissan leaf, but at that time the preorders were full so we couldnt reserve it...

I understand where you are coming from on body work but what about the hybrid engine etc?

From what i understand is Honda won't touch a grey market import Honda's for servicing and maintaining, my friend had a type R Civic and had a hell of time trying to fix certain engine codes and Honda Thailand would not touch it.

Hope the importer takes care of you.

[Tonykalniev]

@ katasyd yes you are right on both points. we get the duty free benefit. and yes, we could have gotten something unique like a tesla roadster, but budget was an issue. in addition, if something happens to the car, lets say front bumper damage, we can easily and cheaply replace parts as the jazz is popular in thailand. same issue when getting a unique car. there are so many cool cars out there, we are just scared of maintenance problems.

but we did try to order the nissan leaf, but at that time the preorders were full so we couldnt reserve it...

I understand where you are coming from on body work but what about the hybrid engine etc?

From what i understand is Honda won't touch a grey market import Honda's for servicing and maintaining, my friend had a type R Civic and had a hell of time trying to fix certain engine codes and Honda Thailand would not touch it.

Hope the importer takes care of you.

I doubt its gonna break down, given honda's reliability record...we researched a lot about honda's hybrid system and there is still a honda from 2001 still running on the same engine, same batt, just normal oil changes, tires and brakes. Im just hoping she doesnt have a major accident with the car lol

Anyway, I am going to China to find this factory where they are willing to custom make a full electric car with a fairly fast motor for 17,000 USD. It wont be a Tesla roadster competitor, but it will beat 2.0 cc cars in acceleration. and it has a 280w solar roof to charge the car while parked...great price. I just wanna go there to see it for myself and test it. Do you know if cars from china are under the free trade agreement with thailand? as this is also not based on engine size, there shouldnt be any tax....

[LeCharivari]

"my mom works for the UN so logically, we bought an environmentally budget car"

I don't see the connection. "Logically" you should have bought the most inefficient, most expensive and most unreliable car available. I used to work for the UN.

[Shocktreatment]

Very interesting infomation - thank you! I am really astonished about the low prize after import taxes...! Which is your import company?

In Switzerland I am driving a small electric car (TWIKE III) since 1997. 3 years ago, it was very hard to find a car for me and my Thai wife, which was pleasant to both of us and had the right size (not too big and not too small). We finally bought the Mazda 3 with the 2 litres engine - only because of its better safety equipment...

I am very interested in the Toyota Prius and could test drive the newest model for about 1 month in Switzerland. Its prize is OK for Thailand, but it has quite a small luggage compartment for its size. I am hoping that the newly announced Prius+ «minivan» will also come to Thailand.

His mother works for the UN, just one of the perks.

Embassy officials also have this luxury.

Why not import something worthwhile if you can bypass the taxes?

Just saying that a Jazz hybrid would be at the bottom of my list if i could get tax free.

I agree, what a waste.

There would be a long list of 25 30,000 USD cars that he could have bought in and doubled or tripled his money.

The new honda Jazz is a shit box.

[Tonykalniev]

Very interesting infomation - thank you! I am really astonished about the low prize after import taxes...! Which is your import company?

In Switzerland I am driving a small electric car (TWIKE III) since 1997. 3 years ago, it was very hard to find a car for me and my Thai wife, which was pleasant to both of us and had the right size (not too big and not too small). We finally bought the Mazda 3 with the 2 litres engine - only because of its better safety equipment...

I am very interested in the Toyota Prius and could test drive the newest model for about 1 month in Switzerland. Its prize is OK for Thailand, but it has quite a small luggage compartment for its size. I am hoping that the newly announced Prius+ «minivan» will also come to Thailand.

His mother works for the UN, just one of the perks.

Embassy officials also have this luxury.

@ Lecharivari

as Un employees, we need to set examples for Un staff as well as the thai people of efficient vehicles...

@ shocktreatment

you are also right. we could have gotten some super cool car and then sell it to compete against import cars' prices here in thailand, it has passed my mind...

however, to do this 1000% profit, we need to wait 5 years before selling it. we would then have depreciation as well as heavy maintenance on the large engine overheating (i see new mercedes on the side of the road all the time)

the jazz hybrid will enter the thai market at around 1 million baht. with depreciation on such a car over 5 years, considering fuel prices then, we would most likely break even or make a small profit as well.

something i would like to add; 4 years ago i looked through a japanese export website about used vehicles. i found the mclaren SLR (new costs 500,000USD). it was being sold at 100,000USD. I immediately told my mom to get that car, considering the amount of profit you can make here in thailand. the mclaren at that time was priced in thailand at 60 miillion baht. buying it for 3 mill and selling it after 5 years for say 30mill, that would be 1000% profit! sadly we didnt have that money...

to conclude, i see your point, but we are a "green" technology family (my mom is an environmental officer in UN). we NEED to make an example...

you have no idea how many people ask us questions about the hybrid jazz, which is a fairly simpler system than the prius. people are interested in technology and so we need to show them what is out in the world...

Why not import something worthwhile if you can bypass the taxes?

Just saying that a Jazz hybrid would be at the bottom of my list if i could get tax free.

I agree, what a waste.

There would be a long list of 25 30,000 USD cars that he could have bought in and doubled or tripled his money.

The new honda Jazz is a shit box.

[Tonykalniev]

I agree, what a waste.

There would be a long list of 25 30,000 USD cars that he could have bought in and doubled or tripled his money.

The new honda Jazz is a shit box.

@ Lecharivari

as Un employees, we need to set examples for Un staff as well as the thai people of efficient vehicles...

@ shocktreatment

you are also right. we could have gotten some super cool car and then sell it to compete against import cars' prices here in thailand, it has passed my mind...

however, to do this 1000% profit, we need to wait 5 years before selling it. we would then have depreciation as well as heavy maintenance on the large engine overheating (i see new mercedes on the side of the road all the time)

the jazz hybrid will enter the thai market at around 1 million baht. with depreciation on such a car over 5 years, considering fuel prices then, we would most likely break even or make a small profit as well.

something i would like to add; 4 years ago i looked through a japanese export website about used vehicles. i found the mclaren SLR (new costs 500,000USD). it was being sold at 100,000USD. I immediately told my mom to get that car, considering the amount of profit you can make here in thailand. the mclaren at that time was priced in thailand at 60 miillion baht. buying it for 3 mill and selling it after 5 years for say 30mill, that would be 1000% profit! sadly we didnt have that money...

to conclude, i see your point, but we are a "green" technology family (my mom is an environmental officer in UN). we NEED to make an example...

you have no idea how many people ask us questions about the hybrid jazz, which is a fairly simpler system than the prius. people are interested in technology and so we need to show them what is out in the world...

[Shocktreatment]

depreciation as well as heavy maintenance on the large engine overheating

If you bought the right car there would be no depreciantion or hi maintenance and as for being a large engine and over heating, is just a load of bull.

I would be pissed if I had to drive a shopping trolly because of what my mum did.

[WarpSpeed]

depreciation as well as heavy maintenance on the large engine overheating

If you bought the right car there would be no depreciantion or hi maintenance and as for being a large engine and over heating, is just a load of bull.

I would be pissed if I had to drive a shopping trolly because of what my mum did.

Yes his argument definitely went off the rails with that one, it's not like they just came out with V8's a week or 2 ago .. Just ran an entire F1 race in Malaysia and to my knowledge not a single engine failed over the course of the race, plenty of other mechanicals but no engines and they have to last at least 2 races with a maximum of 8 allowed per season. The stresses on those engines and temps achieved far exceed anything close to a stock V8 of any brand so cooling them is not any sort of an issue..

Edited April 19, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[wandrinstar]

Hybrids are Horrid, like tree a huggers, the Toyota's a waste of money, pop in and try one.V8 rules , batteries are for Golf Carts .Model Airplanes and cell phones.:jap:

[LeCharivari]

Its not his "shopping trolley", ST, its his "mom's".

He's not only wrong about Mercs overheating "all the time" here, but he's wrong about being able to sell it after 5 years at a nice profit having paid no tax. The 5 year rule only applies to vehicles sold to a government agency, not to private sales - unless sold to a government agency she can take it with her, sell it and pay all the original taxes due, or bin it.

Edited April 19, 2011 by LeCharivari

[MoonRiverOasis]

I would have used the opportunity to buy a Porsche Cayenne Hybrid for < 2.5M Baht instead of 6.5M, but that goes without saying I guess

Also, resale on your gray market import will not be the same as a Thai made Jazz Hybrid (when they finally arrive). Gray market always devalues faster.

[katasyd]

I would have used the opportunity to buy a Porsche Cayenne Hybrid for < 2.5M Baht instead of 6.5M, but that goes without saying I guess

Also, resale on your gray market import will not be the same as a Thai made Jazz Hybrid (when they finally arrive). Gray market always devalues faster.

Hell, why stop there and order a 2012 Porsche 918 Hybrid?

[Tonykalniev]

well, everyone has their opinions...

I mentioned a lot of my reasoning in my other post. Please go through my profile or find the post here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/455379-electric-vehicles-in-thailand/

If you like, research also what thailand is doing with oil subsidies and once that budget will run out (being this month) what do you think will happen? I reckon to run your v8-efficiently and economically-you will pay as much as renting a 30,000 baht condo per month at 200km per tank (this i know, cuz my friend has a 2.5 v6 nissan 2010 and it runs at 300km before refueling the 65 litre tank), then take into account the tax, insurance, accident spare parts nu-sense etc etc

do your math...but of course if you have the money, dont worry about it. Ever increasing food, fuel, rent, inflation...you dont need to worry if you wipe your ass with 1000 baht bills

So, in my eyes i did the right thing...how about you?

[WarpSpeed]

well, everyone has their opinions...

I mentioned a lot of my reasoning in my other post. Please go through my profile or find the post here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/455379-electric-vehicles-in-thailand/

If you like, research also what thailand is doing with oil subsidies and once that budget will run out (being this month) what do you think will happen? I reckon to run your v8-efficiently and economically-you will pay as much as renting a 30,000 baht condo per month at 200km per tank (this i know, cuz my friend has a 2.5 v6 nissan 2010 and it runs at 300km before refueling the 65 litre tank), then take into account the tax, insurance, accident spare parts nu-sense etc etc

do your math...but of course if you have the money, dont worry about it. Ever increasing food, fuel, rent, inflation...you dont need to worry if you wipe your ass with 1000 baht bills

So, in my eyes i did the right thing...how about you?

I'm sorry but Thailand stopped subsidizing petrol and oil a few years ago hence the up tick in NGV and LP cars. The subsidy you're speaking of is for diesel oil not petrol or benzine as it's more commonly known here so that pinch is/has already been felt for some time and besides those who can afford the cars with those sized engines and features aren't really going to balk at an increase just to restrict their pleasures in life...

I also didn't see anyone disputing the lowered efficiency of a V8 just your silly contention that they can't handle the Thailand heat as a reason not to own one..

Edited April 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[LeCharivari]

........I reckon to run your v8-efficiently and economically-you will pay as much as renting a 30,000 baht condo per month at 200km per tank (this i know, cuz my friend has a 2.5 v6 nissan 2010 and it runs at 300km before refueling the 65 litre tank), then take into account the tax, insurance, accident spare parts nu-sense etc etc

do your math...but of course if you have the money, dont worry about it. Ever increasing food, fuel, rent, inflation...you dont need to worry if you wipe your ass with 1000 baht bills

So, in my eyes i did the right thing...how about you?

In my eyes you're talking absolute nonsense, but that hardly comes as a surprise after your previous posts on this subject.

"a 30,000 baht condo per month" costs 30,000 baht (I don't see the relevance of the condo, but what's new?). For that I can currently buy 1,000 litres of diesel which will take my 3 litre turbo'd Toyota Vigo Prerunner around 11,000 kms (a lot more than my monthly mileage, and probably rather more than most people's as few clock up over 130,000 kms per year).

Although my tax is rather higher than yours for the Honda Fit, my insurance and spare parts (if needed) are considerably less. No idea what "nu-sense" is - non-sense?.

The Vigo has an 80 litre tank, which gets me 880 kms, more on long trips ; 65 litres would take me 715 kms around town. Is a Nissan really so bad that it only gets 4.6 kms per litre??

You seriously think that you and your Honda Fit are an example of being "green" to "the thai people"? Dream on. A Thai in Issan living in a wooden or bamboo hut, growing his own rice and living a relatively normal existence there probably has less effect on the environment in a year than you do in a day, driving from your air-conditioned city house to your air-conditioned city office in your air-conditioned city car. If you really wanted to be "green" you'd walk or cycle; failing that, next choice would be an electric bicycle; if you couldn't manage that and you had to have a car then at least the Prius is locally made and costs (tax free) little more than your Fit. Last and worst option would be importing a Fit: not as advanced as a Prius, higher emissions, worse fuel consumption, etc, and far more damaging to the environment overall than any diesel (or petrol) engined equivalent (or my pick-up) because of the environmental damage resulting from its production, importation and transportation - something those wanting to give the impression of being green seem unable to consider.

"do your math". Your version of being green doesn't work - it never has and it never will. What you have may be "greener" than a conventional car and produce less emissions, but the environmental cost of producing it is such that the car (and the batteries) would need to be used for several decades before you would see any sign of any benefits at all.

"So, in my eyes" you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

[Tonykalniev]

........I reckon to run your v8-efficiently and economically-you will pay as much as renting a 30,000 baht condo per month at 200km per tank (this i know, cuz my friend has a 2.5 v6 nissan 2010 and it runs at 300km before refueling the 65 litre tank), then take into account the tax, insurance, accident spare parts nu-sense etc etc

do your math...but of course if you have the money, dont worry about it. Ever increasing food, fuel, rent, inflation...you dont need to worry if you wipe your ass with 1000 baht bills

So, in my eyes i did the right thing...how about you?

In my eyes you're talking absolute nonsense, but that hardly comes as a surprise after your previous posts on this subject.

"a 30,000 baht condo per month" costs 30,000 baht (I don't see the relevance of the condo, but what's new?). For that I can currently buy 1,000 litres of diesel which will take my 3 litre turbo'd Toyota Vigo Prerunner around 11,000 kms (a lot more than my monthly mileage, and probably rather more than most people's as few clock up over 130,000 kms per year).

Although my tax is rather higher than yours for the Honda Fit, my insurance and spare parts (if needed) are considerably less. No idea what "nu-sense" is - non-sense?.

The Vigo has an 80 litre tank, which gets me 880 kms, more on long trips ; 65 litres would take me 715 kms around town. Is a Nissan really so bad that it only gets 4.6 kms per litre??

You seriously think that you and your Honda Fit are an example of being "green" to "the thai people"? Dream on. A Thai in Issan living in a wooden or bamboo hut, growing his own rice and living a relatively normal existence there probably has less effect on the environment in a year than you do in a day, driving from your air-conditioned city house to your air-conditioned city office in your air-conditioned city car. If you really wanted to be "green" you'd walk or cycle; failing that, next choice would be an electric bicycle; if you couldn't manage that and you had to have a car then at least the Prius is locally made and costs (tax free) little more than your Fit. Last and worst option would be importing a Fit: not as advanced as a Prius, higher emissions, worse fuel consumption, etc, and far more damaging to the environment overall than any diesel (or petrol) engined equivalent (or my pick-up) because of the environmental damage resulting from its production, importation and transportation - something those wanting to give the impression of being green seem unable to consider.

"do your math". Your version of being green doesn't work - it never has and it never will. What you have may be "greener" than a conventional car and produce less emissions, but the environmental cost of producing it is such that the car (and the batteries) would need to be used for several decades before you would see any sign of any benefits at all.

"So, in my eyes" you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

well, i did my math and lets compare for a minute:

i took my mom's car and did a full tank with driving at its most efficient whenever i could. result is i just did a 26 liter gas-up, costing me 980 baht. for that i went 934km. the average my mom drives is 40km per day. considering in one month, i would cost me roughly 1300 baht (rough estimate and im being generous including the weekends).

how about you? and maybe you should do your estimate when the real value of diesel appears, then calculate how much it will cost to fill your humongous truck.

ok, but consider this; dont you want some cool, new technology instead of being stuck with a 100 year old, expired tech?

[Kwasaki]

I can understand your enthusiasm but something like that would never interest me until I was much older the only thing electric I may get is a electric Tuk Tuk or a golf buggy to runabout the village.

In EV mode you say 34mph, be careful not to fall asleep.

[LeCharivari]

well, i did my math and lets compare for a minute:

i took my mom's car and did a full tank with driving at its most efficient whenever i could. result is i just did a 26 liter gas-up, costing me 980 baht. for that i went 934km. the average my mom drives is 40km per day. considering in one month, i would cost me roughly 1300 baht (rough estimate and im being generous including the weekends).

how about you? and maybe you should do your estimate when the real value of diesel appears, then calculate how much it will cost to fill your humongous truck.

Nothing to compare.

I never drive any vehicle at ITS most efficient - I drive at MY most efficient.

Your mom drives 40 km a day? Well, that's roughly the same as I do on my bicycle every day and even on my worst days my CO₂ emissions per km are minimal in comparison to her's.

If I want to go to the local market or hardware store I'll take my scooter, unless its raining; if I want to enjoy a quiet drive and smell the roses I'll take my motorbike and sidecar. Either one gets around twice the mileage of your mom's shopping cart (more if you include the cost of re-charging the batteries and how that electricity was generated) and is considerably quicker and more fun.

If I am buying pet food (a quarter tonne at a time usually), going to the cash-and-carry in Rayong, the garden markets, on holiday, or taking any of my dogs to the vet in Naklua, I'll take my "humongous truck"; your mom's shopping cart simply couldn't do any of that.

Yes, I could have a shopping cart like your mom's for the local trips which would look "greener", but the reality would be that the environmental cost of producing that extra car would far outweigh any benefits from running it.

Even comparing like with like, try comparing a hybrid on a longer drive with its petrol (or preferably diesel) equivalent; the cost of lugging those batteries around makes for worse fuel consumption, not better.

ok, but consider this; dont you want some cool, new technology instead of being stuck with a 100 year old, expired tech?

You really don't have any idea of your facts, do you?

New York had a fleet of electric taxis in 1897. The first production petrol-electric hybrid, the Woods Dual Power, was made in 1917. The first production diesel, the Citroen 7U estate, wasn't made until 1933.

Advanced production diesel cars (and I freely admit mine isn't one of them) produce considerably less CO₂ emissions per km than any production hybrid and far less than any production electric cars, which are very inefficient once you factor in power generation and grid transmission losses. Once you include the additional environmental cost of producing hybrids/electric cars and their batteries they are clearly more of an environmental disaster than an environmental solution - which is why people like you and the electric car lobby prefer not to mention these facts.

Being "green" isn't really what its about, though, is it? Its really about Metroman showing off his "cool, new technology".

[Tonykalniev]

well, i did my math and lets compare for a minute:

i took my mom's car and did a full tank with driving at its most efficient whenever i could. result is i just did a 26 liter gas-up, costing me 980 baht. for that i went 934km. the average my mom drives is 40km per day. considering in one month, i would cost me roughly 1300 baht (rough estimate and im being generous including the weekends).

how about you? and maybe you should do your estimate when the real value of diesel appears, then calculate how much it will cost to fill your humongous truck.

Nothing to compare.

I never drive any vehicle at ITS most efficient - I drive at MY most efficient.

Your mom drives 40 km a day? Well, that's roughly the same as I do on my bicycle every day and even on my worst days my CO₂ emissions per km are minimal in comparison to her's.

If I want to go to the local market or hardware store I'll take my scooter, unless its raining; if I want to enjoy a quiet drive and smell the roses I'll take my motorbike and sidecar. Either one gets around twice the mileage of your mom's shopping cart (more if you include the cost of re-charging the batteries and how that electricity was generated) and is considerably quicker and more fun.

If I am buying pet food (a quarter tonne at a time usually), going to the cash-and-carry in Rayong, the garden markets, on holiday, or taking any of my dogs to the vet in Naklua, I'll take my "humongous truck"; your mom's shopping cart simply couldn't do any of that.

Yes, I could have a shopping cart like your mom's for the local trips which would look "greener", but the reality would be that the environmental cost of producing that extra car would far outweigh any benefits from running it.

Even comparing like with like, try comparing a hybrid on a longer drive with its petrol (or preferably diesel) equivalent; the cost of lugging those batteries around makes for worse fuel consumption, not better.

ok, but consider this; dont you want some cool, new technology instead of being stuck with a 100 year old, expired tech?

You really don't have any idea of your facts, do you?

New York had a fleet of electric taxis in 1897. The first production petrol-electric hybrid, the Woods Dual Power, was made in 1917. The first production diesel, the Citroen 7U estate, wasn't made until 1933.

Advanced production diesel cars (and I freely admit mine isn't one of them) produce considerably less CO₂ emissions per km than any production hybrid and far less than any production electric cars, which are very inefficient once you factor in power generation and grid transmission losses. Once you include the additional environmental cost of producing hybrids/electric cars and their batteries they are clearly more of an environmental disaster than an environmental solution - which is why people like you and the electric car lobby prefer not to mention these facts.

Being "green" isn't really what its about, though, is it? Its really about Metroman showing off his "cool, new technology".

thanks for writing,

please read the other post on electric cars where most of your comments have my answer.

its also great that you use a bicycle. i miss using it as i did in belgium but in bangkok, it is unfeasible as there arent even sidewalks, let alone bicycle paths.

i know the history of electric propulsion and assist systems as you do, but 95% of the world population doesnt, so just needed to make a generalized point for easier understanding.

maybe car manufacturers should design the exhaust in such a way so that the fumes go straight into the cabin, maybe then people will think differently.

what is am confused about is why people always attack electric cars (which are at their infancy) and their harmful production process. lets take oil and its process, social (war) and environmental damage and psychological impact on drivers. have you as of yet, seen any camry hybrid or prius drivers do crazy stuff on the road, i havent.

but anyway, thanks for everyone for commenting, ill be off to making my next steps of acquiring an EV and self sustainable products to leave the grid...till next time