Rubber Trees

[scotbeve]

I know one of our neighbours have about 700 trees. (You need at least treble what you have, and that's with another source of income.) They are too old to tap themselves, but it's not enough for a Burmese family either. Go to You Tube and search James Collister.

I would say closer to 10 times that to have a comfortable retirement.... We're almost up to 8000 trees. 3rd and 4th plots come online this year. 4 more plots after that within 4 years.

[anthill34]

Hello everyone , this is my first post but I have been an interested reader for some time and have had some email correspondence with Jim C . I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread . I have found it so helpful . I am an aspiring rubber farmer in the Udon district and have purchased 42 rai ( so far ) .I have been with the same Thai lady for 9years and we have a daughter . I am well acquainted with her family and they are experienced rubber tappers working in the South . They are all excited about the prospect of being able to return to there area to work in the future .I am currently working and making decent money but my aim is to have enough land producing enough rubber to retire on . So far all my land has access to plenty of water . I consider myself to be experienced when it comes to Thai people . I know that I am extremely lucky to have fallen into the family I have . I have seen all the usual horror stories over the last 15 years . I admit to having no experience as a farmer but I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty .,

Can anyone give me a basic opinion on how many Rai I should aim for to achieve a comfortable life ?. I appreciate there are many variables.

[scotbeve]

Hello everyone , this is my first post but I have been an interested reader for some time and have had some email correspondence with Jim C . I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread . I have found it so helpful . I am an aspiring rubber farmer in the Udon district and have purchased 42 rai ( so far ) .I have been with the same Thai lady for 9years and we have a daughter . I am well acquainted with her family and they are experienced rubber tappers working in the South . They are all excited about the prospect of being able to return to there area to work in the future .I am currently working and making decent money but my aim is to have enough land producing enough rubber to retire on . So far all my land has access to plenty of water . I consider myself to be experienced when it comes to Thai people . I know that I am extremely lucky to have fallen into the family I have . I have seen all the usual horror stories over the last 15 years . I admit to having no experience as a farmer but I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty .,

Can anyone give me a basic opinion on how many Rai I should aim for to achieve a comfortable life ?. I appreciate there are many variables.

Hi Anthill,

Welcome to the wonderful world of rubber! Glad to hear that your life is going well here. I'ved lived in Thailand for 32 yrs. and have had a few agri-businesses here. rubber is our final venture. We have 110 rai of rubber and I've calculated that this should be enough for a good retirement. We will probably sell 1 or 2 rubber plots and still have enough (72 - 78 rai) to live comfortably. Happy tapping!

Regards,

Scott

[thaiguzzi]

Concur with Scott, 60 rai min, about 5000 trees. Anything above is a nice bonus.

Mike.

[Dakling]

Hello everyone , this is my first post but I have been an interested reader for some time and have had some email correspondence with Jim C . I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread . I have found it so helpful . I am an aspiring rubber farmer in the Udon district and have purchased 42 rai ( so far ) .I have been with the same Thai lady for 9years and we have a daughter . I am well acquainted with her family and they are experienced rubber tappers working in the South . They are all excited about the prospect of being able to return to there area to work in the future .I am currently working and making decent money but my aim is to have enough land producing enough rubber to retire on . So far all my land has access to plenty of water . I consider myself to be experienced when it comes to Thai people . I know that I am extremely lucky to have fallen into the family I have . I have seen all the usual horror stories over the last 15 years . I admit to having no experience as a farmer but I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty .,

Can anyone give me a basic opinion on how many Rai I should aim for to achieve a comfortable life ?. I appreciate there are many variables.

Hi Anthill,

Welcome to the wonderful world of rubber! Glad to hear that your life is going well here. I'ved lived in Thailand for 32 yrs. and have had a few agri-businesses here. rubber is our final venture. We have 110 rai of rubber and I've calculated that this should be enough for a good retirement. We will probably sell 1 or 2 rubber plots and still have enough (72 - 78 rai) to live comfortably. Happy tapping!

Regards,

Scott

I thinks this depends a lot on your expected expenditures at retirement. I know some guys who go through 100,000 baht a month and others who are on less than 50,000. It might be better to determine what you expect your monthly outlay to be and then determine what shortfall you need to make up with the rubber farm after all other retirement incomes are considered. We have 35 rai now (not producing), my goal is to net 35k baht/month from rubber. I hope we do better than that but I think my target is a reasonable planning number until I actually see some money coming in. We have very simple tastes and generally don't spend much more than 40,000 baht per month. We plan to make up the difference with other income and investments from both inside and outside Thailand. I would feel uncomfortable depending on the trees alone as no one knows what the future will hold regarding prices, labour costs, etc.

[Falang737]

Hello to all remaining Rubber Farmers,

Have been reading and learning from all your post since I purchased 60 Rai for my wife about 2 and a half years ago. So thanks to all past and present posters.

As we are still living in the West and only get to visit Thailand twice a year, we decided it would be the best idea to utilise this land for rubber. My BIL if fairly reliable and experienced in Rubber Tree cultivation so he's been taking care of the land since we started planting. The first year we planted about 1000 trees and last year we planted the entire plot so a little over 5000 trees in total. This year we'll probably have to replace about 500 - 800 trees that won't make it through the dry season or have picked up some sort of infection. We're just back from a visit and it's great to see things progressing nicely. We intended to retire or semi retire a little after the estimated time they are due to be opened so will probably need to take some extended leave to keep an eye on things in the beginning. From advice obtained here it will be necessary to be there full time to obtain max ROI.

I don't think this will be enough to take care of our growing family. We'll be trying to add to it in the future if we can. But at the moment the price of land seems to have gone off the charts.

[scotbeve]

Hello everyone , this is my first post but I have been an interested reader for some time and have had some email correspondence with Jim C . I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread . I have found it so helpful . I am an aspiring rubber farmer in the Udon district and have purchased 42 rai ( so far ) .I have been with the same Thai lady for 9years and we have a daughter . I am well acquainted with her family and they are experienced rubber tappers working in the South . They are all excited about the prospect of being able to return to there area to work in the future .I am currently working and making decent money but my aim is to have enough land producing enough rubber to retire on . So far all my land has access to plenty of water . I consider myself to be experienced when it comes to Thai people . I know that I am extremely lucky to have fallen into the family I have . I have seen all the usual horror stories over the last 15 years . I admit to having no experience as a farmer but I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty .,

Can anyone give me a basic opinion on how many Rai I should aim for to achieve a comfortable life ?. I appreciate there are many variables.

Hi Anthill,

Welcome to the wonderful world of rubber! Glad to hear that your life is going well here. I'ved lived in Thailand for 32 yrs. and have had a few agri-businesses here. rubber is our final venture. We have 110 rai of rubber and I've calculated that this should be enough for a good retirement. We will probably sell 1 or 2 rubber plots and still have enough (72 - 78 rai) to live comfortably. Happy tapping!

Regards,

Scott

I thinks this depends a lot on your expected expenditures at retirement. I know some guys who go through 100,000 baht a month and others who are on less than 50,000. It might be better to determine what you expect your monthly outlay to be and then determine what shortfall you need to make up with the rubber farm after all other retirement incomes are considered. We have 35 rai now (not producing), my goal is to net 35k baht/month from rubber. I hope we do better than that but I think my target is a reasonable planning number until I actually see some money coming in. We have very simple tastes and generally don't spend much more than 40,000 baht per month. We plan to make up the difference with other income and investments from both inside and outside Thailand. I would feel uncomfortable depending on the trees alone as no one knows what the future will hold regarding prices, labour costs, etc.

Fair statement - what's your life style? Always go with low numbers in Thailand! (but not when figuring your life style!)

[Dakling]

Fair statement - what's your life style? Always go with low numbers in Thailand! (but not when figuring your life style!)

Pretty modest lifestyle, I like my beer and being able to splash out on nice restaurants on occasion but I rarely spend more than 30,000 baht a month for normal expenses. Things like school costs, vehicle insurance and any capital purchases would be on top of the 30,000. Originally I set my budgets at 50,000/month but we rarely actually spend that much.

[scotbeve]

Fair statement - what's your life style? Always go with low numbers in Thailand! (but not when figuring your life style!)

Pretty modest lifestyle, I like my beer and being able to splash out on nice restaurants on occasion but I rarely spend more than 30,000 baht a month for normal expenses. Things like school costs, vehicle insurance and any capital purchases would be on top of the 30,000. Originally I set my budgets at 50,000/month but we rarely actually spend that much.

Sounds good. We're in the final stages of setting up my retirement. Splashing out on the last investments(and including living expenses) to the tune of 170,000/month (ish). This goes down in 6 months....

[Mosha]

Big downpour, followed as ever by a ant/termite hatch. Fingers crossed for tapping tomorrow,

[rubberpatch]

We have been tapping 2 weeks now but not up to end of last seasons figures as rain has yet to kik in on production.

We have had about 5 good downpours from thunderstorms, enough to get the water well up too speed and adequate liquid for 3 houses. we took a break due to lack of Nam last two weeks to reduce the stress on the bore. Looks like a new well to dig this year as this is the second year running with same drama. Might just go with guttering on the bahn and a tank methinks? How aussie is that but I still cant get used to good rain water just running off unused

Soil tests are back and now we are looking down the barrel of 100rai worth of Pui - on last years figures of 20 rai 15,000thb the ouch figure is 75,000thb and TWICE a year - will this venture ever pay??

46-0-0 and 0-0-60 with Kee Gai thown in for good measure at a 6/4 ratio (Nitrogen + Potasium + Chook Shit for those agriculturaly devoid)

I have cleared about another rai n a bit along the Klong and will plant more trees towards the end of the month when rain should be a bit more reliable. Sweet corn on this also till the trees get bigger.

Next project is to drain the swamp and get another 4 rai into production - any clues as to which variety of tree can handle wet feet 10 months of the year? No aligators or croc's expected but if the trees fail -maybe diversify into shoes and handbags.

Till next time cheers from Rubberpatch

[thaiguzzi]

No rubber tree will grow with "wet feet 10 months" of the year. I've got about 20 trees, 8-9 years old that have "wet feet may to oct" at the bottom of two adjoining slopes - i have bigger and better looking 4-5 year old trees. Not even 20 cms girth.

Big, bad winds last night, did'nt lose any trees, but lost about 6 big top branches on 6 trees, the heavy 25-30cms in circumference type.

Mike.

[Mosha]

We put palm oil in our soggy soil.

[thaiguzzi]

Re my previous post about my poor wet feet trees, i take that back about 20cms circumference. Having a beer on the balcony yesterday afternoon looking at them, 20cms were the GOOD ones. Some are actually 10cms sticks with canopies! 8-9 years old. As Mosha said, palm would be better.

Mike.

[Mosha]

The number of durian we planted and lost, before err in doors realised they just won't grow there. Even going to the market, and she is telling her sister. Sister says plant more durian. At which point I lost the plot. "If she wants me to plant more ******* durian she can by the damn things herself. That was the end of the durian buying.

[anthill34]

Thank you for your opinions , much appreciated . I would like to earn around 120,000 baht per month . To achieve this I am prepared to continue working my " day job " and buying more land until I feel I have enough . I will probably diversify a little . While I intend to go mostly rubber I would also like some sugar cane which will give me some earn in the short time .

Anthony

[wijar]

Thank you for your opinions , much appreciated . I would like to earn around 120,000 baht per month . To achieve this I am prepared to continue working my " day job " and buying more land until I feel I have enough . I will probably diversify a little . While I intend to go mostly rubber I would also like some sugar cane which will give me some earn in the short time .

Anthony

Anthony

You and I are similar in our thoughts, although 120k/month is quite a high target. I am still making oil dollars and will continue to do so, untill I have achieved my goal, which is to be 100% self supporting from the farm. The savings will then become the "rainy day" slushfund.

If my calcs are correct, based on 30 baht per kilo as my share, with a production of about 350 kg/year/rai you'd need about 180 rai in producing rubber trees.

The sugar at the moment, I have just cut about 30 rai, gives you maybe 200k per year, whereas, at the calculated rate above for rubber, this would be 300k/year. Of course these calcs are based on figures gained on the "open market" and I am sure that some farmers will produce more than the quoted 350kg/yr/rai, as much as there are those that don't make that production. All dependent on health of land, type of tree, level of care etc. At present I have about 4800 trees and am planning to put the 30 rai sugar plot into rubber as well this year, so should near the 7000 trees mark. I'd be half way there, I suppose.

Good luck in your venture and let's hope that the rubber price doesn't take too much of a dive (in 5 years time that is).

Wim

[cobbler]

As all seeds have now formed and yang has now dropped to .6 of a kilo per rai.We now closed 2 days ago.Saw last week PM said on TV that she has made all farmers happy by supporting them.Number 1 happy are the yang farmers.Because shehas helped them with her guaranteed 100 baht per kilo.

I don't know anybody getting it.We have sold last 2 sales for 72 baht per kilo.So good to see freedom of the press is alive and well in Thailand.Don't expect any better until she is gone.

Amazing Mosha is about to open and we are just closing in this area.We expect to be closed till early May now .As this is when we get our 1st good rain of the new season.That will make a 4 to 6 week closed season.

Time to start picking chillis now.

Cheers Cobbler

[cobbler]

The number of durian we planted and lost, before err in doors realised they just won't grow there. Even going to the market, and she is telling her sister. Sister says plant more durian. At which point I lost the plot. "If she wants me to plant more ******* durian she can by the damn things herself. That was the end of the durian buying.

At risk of being killed Mate.If the durian were planted on the side or top of a mountain ,would that be ok ?Thats how they all seem to be done around here.

[cobbler]

No rubber tree will grow with "wet feet 10 months" of the year. I've got about 20 trees, 8-9 years old that have "wet feet may to oct" at the bottom of two adjoining slopes - i have bigger and better looking 4-5 year old trees. Not even 20 cms girth.

Big, bad winds last night, did'nt lose any trees, but lost about 6 big top branches on 6 trees, the heavy 25-30cms in circumference type.

Mike.

Good thats all that happened.If this happens during tapping season it can really drop the output as the shaking of the trees snaps off the fine roots .This lessens the moisture going into the tree for about 2 weeks

Cheeras Cobbler

[cobbler]

We have been tapping 2 weeks now but not up to end of last seasons figures as rain has yet to kik in on production.

We have had about 5 good downpours from thunderstorms, enough to get the water well up too speed and adequate liquid for 3 houses. we took a break due to lack of Nam last two weeks to reduce the stress on the bore. Looks like a new well to dig this year as this is the second year running with same drama. Might just go with guttering on the bahn and a tank methinks? How aussie is that but I still cant get used to good rain water just running off unused

Soil tests are back and now we are looking down the barrel of 100rai worth of Pui - on last years figures of 20 rai 15,000thb the ouch figure is 75,000thb and TWICE a year - will this venture ever pay??

46-0-0 and 0-0-60 with Kee Gai thown in for good measure at a 6/4 ratio (Nitrogen + Potasium + Chook Shit for those agriculturaly devoid)

I have cleared about another rai n a bit along the Klong and will plant more trees towards the end of the month when rain should be a bit more reliable. Sweet corn on this also till the trees get bigger.

Next project is to drain the swamp and get another 4 rai into production - any clues as to which variety of tree can handle wet feet 10 months of the year? No aligators or croc's expected but if the trees fail -maybe diversify into shoes and handbags.

Till next time cheers from Rubberpatch

Yep I'd go for palm oil.wasting your money even trying yang.

Or go the goleycare crocs

[cobbler]

Hello everyone , this is my first post but I have been an interested reader for some time and have had some email correspondence with Jim C . I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread . I have found it so helpful . I am an aspiring rubber farmer in the Udon district and have purchased 42 rai ( so far ) .I have been with the same Thai lady for 9years and we have a daughter . I am well acquainted with her family and they are experienced rubber tappers working in the South . They are all excited about the prospect of being able to return to there area to work in the future .I am currently working and making decent money but my aim is to have enough land producing enough rubber to retire on . So far all my land has access to plenty of water . I consider myself to be experienced when it comes to Thai people . I know that I am extremely lucky to have fallen into the family I have . I have seen all the usual horror stories over the last 15 years . I admit to having no experience as a farmer but I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty .,

Can anyone give me a basic opinion on how many Rai I should aim for to achieve a comfortable life ?. I appreciate there are many variables.

Hi Anthill,

Welcome to the wonderful world of rubber! Glad to hear that your life is going well here. I'ved lived in Thailand for 32 yrs. and have had a few agri-businesses here. rubber is our final venture. We have 110 rai of rubber and I've calculated that this should be enough for a good retirement. We will probably sell 1 or 2 rubber plots and still have enough (72 - 78 rai) to live comfortably. Happy tapping!

Regards,

Scott

I thinks this depends a lot on your expected expenditures at retirement. I know some guys who go through 100,000 baht a month and others who are on less than 50,000. It might be better to determine what you expect your monthly outlay to be and then determine what shortfall you need to make up with the rubber farm after all other retirement incomes are considered. We have 35 rai now (not producing), my goal is to net 35k baht/month from rubber. I hope we do better than that but I think my target is a reasonable planning number until I actually see some money coming in. We have very simple tastes and generally don't spend much more than 40,000 baht per month. We plan to make up the difference with other income and investments from both inside and outside Thailand. I would feel uncomfortable depending on the trees alone as no one knows what the future will hold regarding prices, labour costs, etc.

Then the other thing to think about is.If your wife dies ,will you get anything back or not

[cobbler]

Hello everyone , this is my first post but I have been an interested reader for some time and have had some email correspondence with Jim C . I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread . I have found it so helpful . I am an aspiring rubber farmer in the Udon district and have purchased 42 rai ( so far ) .I have been with the same Thai lady for 9years and we have a daughter . I am well acquainted with her family and they are experienced rubber tappers working in the South . They are all excited about the prospect of being able to return to there area to work in the future .I am currently working and making decent money but my aim is to have enough land producing enough rubber to retire on . So far all my land has access to plenty of water . I consider myself to be experienced when it comes to Thai people . I know that I am extremely lucky to have fallen into the family I have . I have seen all the usual horror stories over the last 15 years . I admit to having no experience as a farmer but I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty .,

Can anyone give me a basic opinion on how many Rai I should aim for to achieve a comfortable life ?. I appreciate there are many variables.

As James said sometime ago.3000 trees is good,but it all depends on your lifestyle and production of your trees.We have only 2400 or so with no income from outside Thailand.However we have mixed it up a bit with 500 or more namwa bananas few thousand prik hom(small chillis)And other vegies to give me something to do so I'm not bored.So it all depends what you want to do.By the way what the f$#k happened to James.Did that farkin commo kick him off for ever.Pissa ,I hope not

Cheers Cobbler

[Mosha]

Jim's cutting Teak to make Doors.

[Mosha]

The number of durian we planted and lost, before err in doors realised they just won't grow there. Even going to the market, and she is telling her sister. Sister says plant more durian. At which point I lost the plot. "If she wants me to plant more ******* durian she can by the damn things herself. That was the end of the durian buying.

At risk of being killed Mate.If the durian were planted on the side or top of a mountain ,would that be ok ?Thats how they all seem to be done around here.

All of ours is on the Chanote land at the side of the house, but above the flood level of the trickle/raging torrent behind the house.

[anthill34]

Hello everyone , this is my first post but I have been an interested reader for some time and have had some email correspondence with Jim C . I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread . I have found it so helpful . I am an aspiring rubber farmer in the Udon district and have purchased 42 rai ( so far ) .I have been with the same Thai lady for 9years and we have a daughter . I am well acquainted with her family and they are experienced rubber tappers working in the South . They are all excited about the prospect of being able to return to there area to work in the future .I am currently working and making decent money but my aim is to have enough land producing enough rubber to retire on . So far all my land has access to plenty of water . I consider myself to be experienced when it comes to Thai people . I know that I am extremely lucky to have fallen into the family I have . I have seen all the usual horror stories over the last 15 years . I admit to having no experience as a farmer but I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty .,

Can anyone give me a basic opinion on how many Rai I should aim for to achieve a comfortable life ?. I appreciate there are many variables.

Hi Anthill,

Welcome to the wonderful world of rubber! Glad to hear that your life is going well here. I'ved lived in Thailand for 32 yrs. and have had a few agri-businesses here. rubber is our final venture. We have 110 rai of rubber and I've calculated that this should be enough for a good retirement. We will probably sell 1 or 2 rubber plots and still have enough (72 - 78 rai) to live comfortably. Happy tapping!

Regards,

Scott

I thinks this depends a lot on your expected expenditures at retirement. I know some guys who go through 100,000 baht a month and others who are on less than 50,000. It might be better to determine what you expect your monthly outlay to be and then determine what shortfall you need to make up with the rubber farm after all other retirement incomes are considered. We have 35 rai now (not producing), my goal is to net 35k baht/month from rubber. I hope we do better than that but I think my target is a reasonable planning number until I actually see some money coming in. We have very simple tastes and generally don't spend much more than 40,000 baht per month. We plan to make up the difference with other income and investments from both inside and outside Thailand. I would feel uncomfortable depending on the trees alone as no one knows what the future will hold regarding prices, labour costs, etc.

Then the other thing to think about is.If your wife dies ,will you get anything back or not:w00t:

My land is also in my daughters name. She has dual citizenship . Thai / australia

[Dakling]

Sounds good. We're in the final stages of setting up my retirement. Splashing out on the last investments(and including living expenses) to the tune of 170,000/month (ish). This goes down in 6 months....

Thank you for your opinions , much appreciated . I would like to earn around 120,000 baht per month . To achieve this I am prepared to continue working my " day job " and buying more land until I feel I have enough . I will probably diversify a little . While I intend to go mostly rubber I would also like some sugar cane which will give me some earn in the short time .

Anthony

Not to turn this into a cost of living thread but I think we should point out that 170k baht/month is about $5,600 (american)/month. 120k baht/month is about $4,000 (american)/month. Only the top 5% of people in North America have this level of retirement income (post taxes). At these income levels in Thailand you would have a retirement that most in the west could only dream of. My liver couldn't handle that kind of money!

[Dakling]

I just realized that I have never posted a follow up on our fire issue. Turns out that the fire was not lit on the neighboring farm but was actually lit on a plot of land about 500m away. Apparently some fine gentleman thought that lighting his field on a windy day after 2 months of drought would be a good idea. He managed to burn about 20 or 30 small plots before the fire had enough and put itself out. We not only lost the 20 trees I originally saw on the perimeter but we also lost about another 10 at random throughout the field from sparks that blew in from other fields and ignited bits of grass in the middle of our plot. After I went of half-cocked at the neighbor farm owner the wife refuses to tell me who actually lit the fire in case I was to meet him.

[Scheduler]

As I continue to try to manage the development of a small
rubber tree from afar I find my Thai family can not quit planting monsompalong
(sp?)everywhere they can. Of the 25 rai I have purchased for the rubber tree
farm the last 10 rai section I planned to plant this spring. I told my wife to let the land sit for three
years turning every year twice to let it recuperate after many many years of sugar
cane. As with the other land I have
bought the family just does their own thing with it.

I am concerned that since I cannot be present (I have a few

years left before retiring) the tree will not be cared for correctly and quite
possibly damaged thus reducing their productivity when they mature.

In searching for solutions I am curious if there are seasoned
rubber tree workers in the south that I could possibly hire to oversee and
guide the care of the rubber tree farm into production?

I look forward to any suggestions and thoughts.

Fbrunhoff

Edited March 28, 2013 by fbrunhoff

[thaiguzzi]

I'm afraid i don't know any Thais, that would let 10 rai sit there doing nothing. Even i would'nt. Why wait 3 years? Get that rubber in the ground this year. As soon as the rain hits, get it in the ground man. Using people from the south to oversee younger trees aint gonna happen either, not without turmoil from your immediate family, especially if you are in Issan.

Mike.