Rubber Trees

[Boeing757]

Sorry tothemark. I misread your post.

Presumably you were asking how I had calculated 45 rai for Jim's land?

Between 3000 and 4000 trees must be about 45 rai.

Do you agree?

Clive

[tothemark]

Sorry tothemark. I misread your post.

Presumably you were asking how I had calculated 45 rai for Jim's land?

Between 3000 and 4000 trees must be about 45 rai.

Do you agree?

Clive

Clive,

It all depends on your planting pattern, 3m by 6m or 3m by 7m. That can determine whether it as low as 74 trees per rai or above.

I have seen a lot of rubber rai and the majority dont stack up to the number of trees you would expect for that number of rai.

You have about 80 trees per rai. I am impressed you counted them, it makes a big difference to be able to work figures out and know if you have some "slippage" in your yield returns.

In year one you should do approx 400kg per rai, once the latex starts to flow adequately - that wont happen in the first week ! Year 2 of tapping to around 480kg per rai and stick around that figure slightly increasing year on year on until you get to 800 kg per rai, probably 15 year plus (your making me feel conservative now !) All these figures are based upon Rimm600's and 80 to a rai. The 251 and JVP80 should undoubtedly give more, but as Jim said before the jury is out on that one.

Obviously I am presuming that your not on stony land, sand based well drained, trunks that will grow to 3m, adequate girth etc etc.

One thing to bear in mind is that not all those trees will give latex. Some will just not juice and some will die as the years progress. Personally I would write off in your mind 10% of the trees for doing any calculations - i havent on the figures i have given you.

Edited June 15, 2011 by tothemark

[SonnyWaxmo]

Hi to you all, I found this clip on youtube.

Supertab is a new rubber tapping knife developed by dr. wisut in Thailand.

Have any of you tried it?

There seems to be some kind of distans makin the tools work more like a razor than a knife.

And when steel is worn you only change a small piece

Part 1.

Part2.

Regards

Sonny

[SonnyWaxmo]

REALY NICE VIDEO, THANKS FOR SHARING!!!

When you have time pleas tell us more about the smoking process, I would love yo hear it,

Best regards

Sonny

Hi all Tothemark you are right about Oct. last year we almost hit the 2000 kilos, hope to psaa that this year. Sonny Google collister rubber or youtube my name, have video of making sheet, Bossie as long as you are happy the way you do things that;s all that matters. Now it;s time to have our worker boss drink, see you tomorrow. Jim

[Bosse137]

Hallo all! I have a preliminary report. First,my machines have not been in work for some time and I am ashamed to say,that i have neglected to take care of them.But based on earlier results over the years,the weight of the mats was 1.0-1.3 kg,so I use that as a norm.We used 4 kg latex,when we produced the mats before.(Am fixing the machines now and will do a more thorough test soon.)Now to the test I have done:I took 4 kg of latex,fresh from the trees and put it back in 8 cups,which stayed on the trees as usual.After the usual time,when it was time to sell,I collected it,put it in a sack (as usual) and next day, when I normally would have sold it,I checked the weight again:2.75 kg. That day,the price was 77 Baht/kg,which means,that I would have recieved 211.75 Baht.Compare to what I would have had got for mats with a price of 142 Baht/kg x1,3kg is 184 Baht..Now,there is a margin for error,but to me the verdict is clear;no reason to put on a lot of extra costs and work! As everybodu knows,a good test must be one,that anybody can do,so for those who think I not tell the truth;go ahead and check youself!! It must also be added,that perhaps there are local variations when it comes to how the price is set;I am talking of how it is here,where I sell my stuff.It should also be said,that there can be other reasons for making mats instead of cup lump,one being expectations of rising price.To James and all,you do not have to agree on this and I have no time to prolong this discussion,but I promised to let you know what I would find out.So,everyone to his own,good luck all!

Bosse,

A quick one for you.... I don't remember how many trees you have but in my case i'll have a bit over 7000 trees and I have the opportunity to buy rubber (almost) daily from relatives plots (for a total equal to 8000 trees / liquid latex per day). I still plan to build a small rubber sheet factory in hopes of making a decent profit during our second year - this is with a "buffer" fund kept as well. With an amount like this, do you not think this may be worth the extra hassle? I have a group of dedicated people that are willing to work for this....

Sorry, I hope you don't mind asking... What went wrong with your machines?

Regards,

Scott

Hi Scott! Like James,I don`t know exactly how many trees I have,all in all.Most of them will be in their first season for tapping this year.The ones I used to talk about are about 800 (there are more,but I only count those,who are worthy of tapping).About your plan; I am not an expert,(my wife has that role,he,he)but I guess it is a good idea.With a bit of luck,or rather absence of bad luck,if you store the sheets until the price is favourable,you would be able to make a decent profit.Takes a lot of space to do that,though..Regarding my machines and what went wrong; actually not so much,it is was the electric motors,which had become homes to thousands of ants,plus a general cleanup,which now is done.

[Mosha]

Is anyone using rain guards, and if so where can they be bought from? Our tappers have forgotten how to tap it's been that wet around Ranong.

[scotbeve]

Hallo all! I have a preliminary report. First,my machines have not been in work for some time and I am ashamed to say,that i have neglected to take care of them.But based on earlier results over the years,the weight of the mats was 1.0-1.3 kg,so I use that as a norm.We used 4 kg latex,when we produced the mats before.(Am fixing the machines now and will do a more thorough test soon.)Now to the test I have done:I took 4 kg of latex,fresh from the trees and put it back in 8 cups,which stayed on the trees as usual.After the usual time,when it was time to sell,I collected it,put it in a sack (as usual) and next day, when I normally would have sold it,I checked the weight again:2.75 kg. That day,the price was 77 Baht/kg,which means,that I would have recieved 211.75 Baht.Compare to what I would have had got for mats with a price of 142 Baht/kg x1,3kg is 184 Baht..Now,there is a margin for error,but to me the verdict is clear;no reason to put on a lot of extra costs and work! As everybodu knows,a good test must be one,that anybody can do,so for those who think I not tell the truth;go ahead and check youself!! It must also be added,that perhaps there are local variations when it comes to how the price is set;I am talking of how it is here,where I sell my stuff.It should also be said,that there can be other reasons for making mats instead of cup lump,one being expectations of rising price.To James and all,you do not have to agree on this and I have no time to prolong this discussion,but I promised to let you know what I would find out.So,everyone to his own,good luck all!

Bosse,

A quick one for you.... I don't remember how many trees you have but in my case i'll have a bit over 7000 trees and I have the opportunity to buy rubber (almost) daily from relatives plots (for a total equal to 8000 trees / liquid latex per day). I still plan to build a small rubber sheet factory in hopes of making a decent profit during our second year - this is with a "buffer" fund kept as well. With an amount like this, do you not think this may be worth the extra hassle? I have a group of dedicated people that are willing to work for this....

Sorry, I hope you don't mind asking... What went wrong with your machines?

Regards,

Scott

Hi Scott! Like James,I don`t know exactly how many trees I have,all in all.Most of them will be in their first season for tapping this year.The ones I used to talk about are about 800 (there are more,but I only count those,who are worthy of tapping).About your plan; I am not an expert,(my wife has that role,he,he)but I guess it is a good idea.With a bit of luck,or rather absence of bad luck,if you store the sheets until the price is favourable,you would be able to make a decent profit.Takes a lot of space to do that,though..Regarding my machines and what went wrong; actually not so much,it is was the electric motors,which had become homes to thousands of ants,plus a general cleanup,which now is done.

Bosse,

Ahhhh... electric ants! They have ruined several appliances at the farm house. Co-operatives with a good amount of rainy day cash in a proper bank are a great idea if the co-ops can manage to have an honest bookeeper and accountants with MANY balances and checks in place. Chantaburi province has done well with this type of co-op. Rumor has it that the co-op in Chaeng Saen will have at least 500M baht as a price buffer for those "rainy days".

[jamescollister]

Is anyone using rain guards, and if so where can they be bought from? Our tappers have forgotten how to tap it's been that wet around Ranong.

Rain guards good question, I have looked at it and decided it was not worth the expense. From memory they were about 8 Baht each, probably more now. They seem to be good for light rain , but here when it rains it rains no way a little plastic hat will keep the water out. There is a new rain guard out which is like a rain coat that hangs over the cup, believe it is costs over 20 Baht. A lot of money if you have more than a few trees and they will slow the tappers down, so not sure if they are a good thing or not. Anyway not seen any around for sale yet. Maybe when I can get a few will try them out on a 100 trees and see if it is worth the effort. jim

[David006]

Is anyone using rain guards, and if so where can they be bought from? Our tappers have forgotten how to tap it's been that wet around Ranong.

Rain guards good question, I have looked at it and decided it was not worth the expense. From memory they were about 8 Baht each, probably more now. They seem to be good for light rain , but here when it rains it rains no way a little plastic hat will keep the water out. There is a new rain guard out which is like a rain coat that hangs over the cup, believe it is costs over 20 Baht. A lot of money if you have more than a few trees and they will slow the tappers down, so not sure if they are a good thing or not. Anyway not seen any around for sale yet. Maybe when I can get a few will try them out on a 100 trees and see if it is worth the effort. jim

These guys are in India but won't Quote qty breaks and it takes 'em for ever to reply to mails...won't send samples either..sort of gave up on 'em myself. Keep looking out at the rain and thinking must design something myself!.. Why is it it only f.g rains just after the tress are all tapped and dripping...bugger!!

Anchani.com

[Mosha]

Hi David yes I've seen that site too, a bit disappointing. A friend designed something that takes for ever to get into. I pointed out the tapper wants to spend as little time as possible at the tree. Blank expression. So I just said they wpould get to the last tree at about 5:00 am, then go back to the 1st tree to harvest. You'll have no one to tap the tree. That sunk in I think.

[Khonwan]

Bump!

Lickey, what happened to this “pinned” topic? It’s fallen off the front page. Did you pm Bina with the request?

Rgds

Khonwan

[Lickey]

Yes, i sent a request as soon as the topic got off the ground, had a reply saying Bina would do it but her internet connection is very unstable in her kibutz, so if it goes of the front page, will perhaps try George,

Cheers, Lickey.

[David006]

Hi David yes I've seen that site too, a bit disappointing. A friend designed something that takes for ever to get into. I pointed out the tapper wants to spend as little time as possible at the tree. Blank expression. So I just said they wpould get to the last tree at about 5:00 am, then go back to the 1st tree to harvest. You'll have no one to tap the tree. That sunk in I think.

our big problem is heavy rain AFTER cutting and "rain take away" as wifey says.... I am waiting for a brain fart to solve the problem....I notice a high percentage of water comes down the tree trunk and drips/flows off the spout filling the cup ..figure if one put a secondary cut and spout ABOVE the panel it would atleast limit the dilution such that we would not lose the lot.now to convince wifey...might sneak out with a knife today..

[stoneman]

Yes, i sent a request as soon as the topic got off the ground, had a reply saying Bina would do it but her internet connection is very unstable in her kibutz, so if it goes of the front page, will perhaps try George,

Cheers, Lickey.

Lickey..

Thanks for all your efforts....A personal note...My little NamSum "tractor" is working out great....It gets me and my equipment back and forth to the farm in good fashion..

I do have a question for this group...We have 1,000 trees that we have been processing for two years now and we seem to have a good handle on the operation...

We have bought another 40 rai just outside of our home here in Nong Wuaso and will spend the next year getting it ready to receive rubber trees....

9 years ago, when we bought the trees that are now producing, the price was 13 baht each and they were very nice size trees...I know the price of trees has increased considerably and I am hearing stories around here that they are as high as 60 baht each...

Since we need to buy about 3,000 trees, my question is,,,What is the best(most economical) way to buy..Should I consider buying the small saplings that have just been budded and raise them for a year?....

Am also wondering if the price of trees is lower down south?...If they are, I would be willing to invest the time to drive there and pick them up..

Just trying to figure the best approach...3000 trees is a big investment and would like to make sure that I buy the smartest way...Appreciate any info or guidance..

Stoneman

[jamescollister]

Yes, i sent a request as soon as the topic got off the ground, had a reply saying Bina would do it but her internet connection is very unstable in her kibutz, so if it goes of the front page, will perhaps try George,

Cheers, Lickey.

Lickey..

Thanks for all your efforts....A personal note...My little NamSum "tractor" is working out great....It gets me and my equipment back and forth to the farm in good fashion..

I do have a question for this group...We have 1,000 trees that we have been processing for two years now and we seem to have a good handle on the operation...

We have bought another 40 rai just outside of our home here in Nong Wuaso and will spend the next year getting it ready to receive rubber trees....

9 years ago, when we bought the trees that are now producing, the price was 13 baht each and they were very nice size trees...I know the price of trees has increased considerably and I am hearing stories around here that they are as high as 60 baht each...

Since we need to buy about 3,000 trees, my question is,,,What is the best(most economical) way to buy..Should I consider buying the small saplings that have just been budded and raise them for a year?....

Am also wondering if the price of trees is lower down south?...If they are, I would be willing to invest the time to drive there and pick them up..

Just trying to figure the best approach...3000 trees is a big investment and would like to make sure that I buy the smartest way...Appreciate any info or guidance..

Stoneman

Stoneman, do your own nursery, it's easy. Nothing but some poles, shade cloth and a water pump. Make a deal with a nursey to buy the grafted sticks and stick them in plastic tubes. The nursery will have the bags. Make a wood fram to lean the trees against, water daily. Think I have a pic somewhere on picsa or flickr [yahoo] of the one we made. Not hard at all. Jim

[stoneman]

Stoneman, do your own nursery, it's easy. Nothing but some poles, shade cloth and a water pump. Make a deal with a nursey to buy the grafted sticks and stick them in plastic tubes. The nursery will have the bags. Make a wood fram to lean the trees against, water daily. Think I have a pic somewhere on picsa or flickr [yahoo] of the one we made. Not hard at all. Jim

Jim..

I had not thought about that...I will stop by one of the many nurseries here that sell rubber trees and try to do some negotiating...Thanks for the info..

Stoneman

[stoneman]

Jim..

I had not thought about that...I will stop by one of the many nurseries here that sell rubber trees and try to do some negotiating...Thanks for the info..

Stoneman

Jim..

I guess I am not as good of a negotiator, No one seemed anxious to even quote a price to buy the grafted sticks...I did find a lot of completed grafted sticks(in the soil - in the plastic tube) that had not budded out on the graft....The best price I found on these was 30 baht each, based on buying 2,700...I tried to get a feel for the number of "dead" grafts there would be 6 months from now and no one seemed to want to give that info...

So I finally found some grafted sticks that had already started...New growth about 2 inches high...I bought these for 33 baht...But he is delivering them to my place and will put them into the nursery that we built...It will take 3 trips to get all of them, so the extra few baht is saving me a lot of work...

So I am satisfied with my purchase....Now if they were just in the ground, I would feel a lot better...

Stoneman

[Dakling]

Hi all

I figured I would bump this quality thread by asking a stupid question.

I have read through the forums numerous times and I am still having trouble getting it straight in my head how the actual pricing for rubber works. For simplicities sake I will confine my question to cup lump rubber.

I was just looking at the pricing at the Thai Rubber Association website and they are quoting ~125 baht/kg for lump rubber. http://www.thainr.com/en/?detail=pr-local

I am curious to understand how that relates to the price that a producer actualy receives. For instance is that 125 baht reduced for moisture content or is cup rubber consistent enough that the water content is already factored in. Is that a retail price that is discounted by the factories that buy it as a way to increase their margins?

At the end of the day, if you have a reasonably good quality tree producing the equivalent of 1kg of dry rubber/month during its productive months would you recieve approximately 125 baht per tree in gross sales (gross as in prior to splitting profits with cutters, transportation, fertilizer or any other other operating expenses)?

For example if 1000 trees produced 1000 kg of lump rubber in one month your gross rubber value would be 1000kg x 125 baht/kg = 125,000 baht. ( I had thought to make about 1/2 that much from 1000 trees).

These numbers seem to good to be true to me so I am sure I have gone wrong somewhere. I know prices fluctuate and are pretty high these days but I am more curios to see if my thinking is wrong on the calculations rather than getting too concerned on future price trends.

[David006]

Hi all

I figured I would bump this quality thread by asking a stupid question.

I have read through the forums numerous times and I am still having trouble getting it straight in my head how the actual pricing for rubber works. For simplicities sake I will confine my question to cup lump rubber.

I was just looking at the pricing at the Thai Rubber Association website and they are quoting ~125 baht/kg for lump rubber. http://www.thainr.com/en/?detail=pr-local

I am curious to understand how that relates to the price that a producer actualy receives. For instance is that 125 baht reduced for moisture content or is cup rubber consistent enough that the water content is already factored in. Is that a retail price that is discounted by the factories that buy it as a way to increase their margins?

At the end of the day, if you have a reasonably good quality tree producing the equivalent of 1kg of dry rubber/month during its productive months would you recieve approximately 125 baht per tree in gross sales (gross as in prior to splitting profits with cutters, transportation, fertilizer or any other other operating expenses)?

For example if 1000 trees produced 1000 kg of lump rubber in one month your gross rubber value would be 1000kg x 125 baht/kg = 125,000 baht. ( I had thought to make about 1/2 that much from 1000 trees).

These numbers seem to good to be true to me so I am sure I have gone wrong somewhere. I know prices fluctuate and are pretty high these days but I am more curios to see if my thinking is wrong on the calculations rather than getting too concerned on future price trends.

bloody good question mate seeing as cup rubber is purchased by buyers here at about 75 baht a kilo minus guesstimated water content %...are they selling it to rubber cos at 100% mark up???

[jamescollister]

Hi all

I figured I would bump this quality thread by asking a stupid question.

I have read through the forums numerous times and I am still having trouble getting it straight in my head how the actual pricing for rubber works. For simplicities sake I will confine my question to cup lump rubber.

I was just looking at the pricing at the Thai Rubber Association website and they are quoting ~125 baht/kg for lump rubber. http://www.thainr.com/en/?detail=pr-local

I am curious to understand how that relates to the price that a producer actualy receives. For instance is that 125 baht reduced for moisture content or is cup rubber consistent enough that the water content is already factored in. Is that a retail price that is discounted by the factories that buy it as a way to increase their margins?

At the end of the day, if you have a reasonably good quality tree producing the equivalent of 1kg of dry rubber/month during its productive months would you recieve approximately 125 baht per tree in gross sales (gross as in prior to splitting profits with cutters, transportation, fertilizer or any other other operating expenses)?

For example if 1000 trees produced 1000 kg of lump rubber in one month your gross rubber value would be 1000kg x 125 baht/kg = 125,000 baht. ( I had thought to make about 1/2 that much from 1000 trees).

These numbers seem to good to be true to me so I am sure I have gone wrong somewhere. I know prices fluctuate and are pretty high these days but I am more curios to see if my thinking is wrong on the calculations rather than getting too concerned on future price trends.

Seen that site and I have no idea where they are getting the numbers from. Wish I was getting that kind of money. They often quote sheet prices over the FOB [ Free on board] price. Maybe it's the average price paid on delivery to another country. If anyone can find where these alleged buyers are, please tell me. Jim

[tothemark]

bloody good question mate seeing as cup rubber is purchased by buyers here at about 75 baht a kilo minus guesstimated water content %...are they selling it to rubber cos at 100% mark up???

David,

I would hazard a guess that the cup lump they refer to are granules (the end product of cup lump). The granules are the factory manufactured output hence the higher price, which would also explain the USS price as a factory output price, rather than an input price such as seen on rubberthai.com

Mark

[David006]

bloody good question mate seeing as cup rubber is purchased by buyers here at about 75 baht a kilo minus guesstimated water content %...are they selling it to rubber cos at 100% mark up???

David,

I would hazard a guess that the cup lump they refer to are granules (the end product of cup lump). The granules are the factory manufactured output hence the higher price, which would also explain the USS price as a factory output price, rather than an input price such as seen on rubberthai.com

Mark

thx..I actually emailed 'em to ask the question...but of course no reply..lol

[Mobaan]

COOKED VEGETABLES

thats what a lot of the very young leaves of our newly planted rubbertrees ( planted 3 weeks ago ) looked like last week . Of course they died off and put us a bit in shock . The local nursery tells us that they have the same problem and we should not worry !!!

During the past 1-2 weeks the weather was extremly hot with humidity levels around 90-100 % all day long . If I was a young leaf I would want ot shrivell too .After about 3 weeks after planting the plants showed good signs of taking root and producing new leaves -and now this !! But serious ...what could this be . Rubberplants are supposed to live in hot weather like this . There is no indication of any fungus infestation. No standing water . No drought stress . Actually what I would consider pretty ideal growing conditions .

Are we really to sit back and relax or is there anything we need to do ?

[jamescollister]

COOKED VEGETABLES

thats what a lot of the very young leaves of our newly planted rubbertrees ( planted 3 weeks ago ) looked like last week . Of course they died off and put us a bit in shock . The local nursery tells us that they have the same problem and we should not worry !!!

During the past 1-2 weeks the weather was extremly hot with humidity levels around 90-100 % all day long . If I was a young leaf I would want ot shrivell too .After about 3 weeks after planting the plants showed good signs of taking root and producing new leaves -and now this !! But serious ...what could this be . Rubberplants are supposed to live in hot weather like this . There is no indication of any fungus infestation. No standing water . No drought stress . Actually what I would consider pretty ideal growing conditions .

Are we really to sit back and relax or is there anything we need to do ?

Without being there hard to say, but when you first plant the trees go into shock or dormant. Some will die, but most will not. If you remember in my little piece I say about timing of planting. If the trees don't get to the growing spurt by the start of the dry season, you had better be prepare to water them. Round here we plant first good rains after Song Kran. Don't worry yet they will start to shoot up faster than you think once they get going. Jim

[kwonitoy]

COOKED VEGETABLES

thats what a lot of the very young leaves of our newly planted rubbertrees ( planted 3 weeks ago ) looked like last week . Of course they died off and put us a bit in shock . The local nursery tells us that they have the same problem and we should not worry !!!

During the past 1-2 weeks the weather was extremly hot with humidity levels around 90-100 % all day long . If I was a young leaf I would want ot shrivell too .After about 3 weeks after planting the plants showed good signs of taking root and producing new leaves -and now this !! But serious ...what could this be . Rubberplants are supposed to live in hot weather like this . There is no indication of any fungus infestation. No standing water . No drought stress . Actually what I would consider pretty ideal growing conditions .

Are we really to sit back and relax or is there anything we need to do ?

Mobaan:

The ones I planted at the end of May, beginning of June did the same thing, leaves turn yellow and then fall off leaving a stick behind. They now look just fine, see photo. Once the roots begin to get into the soil the tree bounces right back. If happens every time we plant and it stresses me out too but they'll grow. However the flooding we've had up North right now doesn't help them.

Guys I'm starting a new thread called hearbreaking pictures for a rubber farmer. We got nailed by Nock-Ten

Ken

[kwonitoy]

COOKED VEGETABLES

thats what a lot of the very young leaves of our newly planted rubbertrees ( planted 3 weeks ago ) looked like last week . Of course they died off and put us a bit in shock . The local nursery tells us that they have the same problem and we should not worry !!!

During the past 1-2 weeks the weather was extremly hot with humidity levels around 90-100 % all day long . If I was a young leaf I would want ot shrivell too .After about 3 weeks after planting the plants showed good signs of taking root and producing new leaves -and now this !! But serious ...what could this be . Rubberplants are supposed to live in hot weather like this . There is no indication of any fungus infestation. No standing water . No drought stress . Actually what I would consider pretty ideal growing conditions .

Are we really to sit back and relax or is there anything we need to do ?

Mobaan:

The ones I planted at the end of May, beginning of June did the same thing, leaves turn yellow and then fall off leaving a stick behind. They now look just fine, see photo. Once the roots begin to get into the soil the tree bounces right back. If happens every time we plant and it stresses me out too but they'll grow. However the flooding we've had up North right now doesn't help them.

Guys I'm starting a new thread called hearbreaking pictures for a rubber farmer. We got nailed by Nock-Ten

Ken

[RedBullHorn]

Hi all well heres my bit, don't know if it is worth much and my skills as a technical writer leave a lot to be desired. Anyway when the next newbie asks he can at least get a rough idea as to what is involved. Jim

RUBBER 101 FOR BEGINERS a rough guide

First requirement is land, on which to plant. Rubber is a jungle tree and likes rain, but does not like wet ground. So rice paddies, swamps, marshes and flood plains are generally not suitable for rubber. Measures can be taken to utilise this type of land, but the long term cost will be prohibitive.

Ideally gently sloping land, that does not flood. As I am from Issan this is the area that I know. Here rubber is planted along the Cambodia, Lao border, near the mountains and Mekong river. Inland areas are just too dry for long periods of the year. Again measures can be taken, irrigation etc, but long term costs have to be looked at.

Now we have found our bit of rubber tree heaven and want to prepare the land for trees. Remember that in 7 or 8 years men will be staggering around in the dead of night tripping over old stumps. rocks and falling in holes. Level the ground as best you can and if you have access to animal manure [which includes septic sam the toilet man] plough it in to the ground. Put up your fences, don't want cattle and water buffalo wandering around and standing on or eating your young trees. Build a workers hut, the nicer the better. Workers and you may spend a lot of time there over the coming years. Be comfortable after all a cold beer with your workers, swinging in your hammock at the end off a hot day of grass cutting is one of the better moments and will help to bond you with the locals.

THE TREES

Which type of tree [clone] for you.

RIMM 600 your basic tried and tested rubber tree, grown throughout Thailand.

RIMM 251 a better rubber producer, twice as much as the 600, but with all things has some draw backs. Shorter life, less lumber value and worst of all, fall over in the wind. Not suitable for coastal regions or windy areas.

JVP80 New tree type and I know nothing about the pros and cons for it. Allegedly tappable after 5 years. Think the jury is still out.

Best advice go to the Government Agriculture Office for your district and ask what's best in your area. That's what these guys are paid to do, give advise. They may not be the smartest people in the world, but they will know what's doing well and what's not.

BUYING OR GROWING TREES.

To buy from a nursery or grow your own, that is the question.

If you are going the nursery way, do your home work and find the place with the best reputation, not the wifes 2nd. cousin, who started a nursery last week. I would not go the way of ordering and placing a deposit. If the nursery can get a better price they will sell the good trees and you will be left with what is left. It may cost more ,but just pay the price when you need them and get the good trees.

Personally I favour making your own nursery. It is not difficult or costly, just time consuming, but you will get trees that you know have been cared for.

THE BIG MOMENT PLANTING

Much debate has gone on about spacing and number of trees per Rai. For this we will stick to the Governments recommendation. 76 trees per Rai, 3 metres between trees and 7 metres between rows.

Mark out your land for the trees and await the rains. You want your trees in the ground as soon as possible, but not too early as the rain may stop and your trees start dying. Much of the timing will depend on where you are. The lack of rain [water ] will be your biggest enemy in the first 12 months. If you have the money buy a water tank on wheels and a good tractor to pull it. I being a poor man used a 2 wheeled rice tractor with 4 100 litre drums on the trailer.

Labour will be a problem, as planting falls at around the Cassava and rice planting times, most people will be busy on there own land. What you can do is pay by the hole and they will come and go as they see fit.

Holes should be 1 metre in diameter and 1/2 a metre deep, so as to form an earthen bowl. Check the hole sizes or they will get progressively smaller as time goes by. Just get 2/ 1 metre sticks make a cross and tie a 1/2 metre string with weight to it. Easy and fast to check.

When planting the trees remove them from the plastic bag, tickle out the roots and plant them. They are a very hardy tree and you don't have to be gentle. Water in if necessary ,

the hole my be half full of rain water already.

When all the plantings done have a party for the workers. You are now a planter.

PART 2 THE LONG HAUL

Now that the excitement of starting has waned and the family are not getting new toys, pickup trucks, tractors, scrub cutters etc You need a foreman, you maybe blessed by having an in-law who is hard working, loyal and given up all worldly greed, if not you need to be there to make sure what you pay for gets done.

FERTILISER

I won't go into too much depth on this subject as best practice changes as Agriculture researchers refine and learn better ways. Common practice for most Thais is one 50 kilo bag per Rai twice a year. The area around the tree is roughed up and the fertiliser is sprinkled around, then rice chaff or grass is place over the area to stop the fertiliser blowing or washing away. This method works fine, but is not best practice.

Here again we want our friend the local Agriculture advisers help. He can give you a booklet on the best method at the time. Which is currently the 3 hole varying amount and fertiliser type. The plan is worked out for the age of the tree and will save you money, as well as give you trees a little added help.

FIRE and WEED CONTROL

You have now entered into an on going war with grass and weeds, if not controlled they will out grow your trees and in the dry season will become a very serious fire hazard. Plough the field a least twice a year for the first 2 years. This not only keeps the weeds down, but allows the soil to soak up water. Scrub cutters [weed wackers] will be constantly on the go and you will need to poison. All it takes is one ember from someone burning off his rice stubble and all your work can go up in smoke.

BUGS MOULDS DESEASE and BANCHES

One of the constant on going jobs will be removing the small branches that grow on your trees. You only want the top branches, all others that grow from the trunk need to be removed. A small pair of side cutters will be your companion for a few years. Branches are removed to the 3 metre high mark. While doing your branch patrol you will see if a tree is having problems or has died. Dead trees can be replaced the next planting time for the first 2 maybe 3 years, after which the canopy of the existing trees will stop new trees growing. If you are smart you will have kept a percentage of your original trees and potted them [bigger grow bags] then you can replace dead or under preforming trees with healthy strong trees of the same age.

Other problems such as termites, moulds and diseases which may occur, will be seen on your branch patrols. Now just like our pig farmers you don't have to be a vet to know your pigs are sick. Same with your trees, if something is wrong hire an expert, you are the manager and your job is to manage.

TAPPING TIME HAS COME

The years have passed, your money and hair have gone, but you have made it to those magic numbers. 7 years old, 46 cm in circumference 1 metre from the ground. In reality after all the years you will be taking no notice of these numbers and will tap by tree condition, but for now we will stick to the generic numbers.

First problem tappers. Good tappers are hard to find. A good tapper will take a shaving of bark so fine that it will float to the ground like a feather. He will not touch the wood of the tree and latex will flow. A bad or inexperienced tapper will take a slice of bark with some tree wood and hurt the tree. Moral of this story is a good tapper us worth his weight in rubber, take care of him, it will pay in the long run.

Tapping schedule

Basic rule tap 2 rest 1. Many Thais will tap 3 rest 1. By this stage you should know what's best for your trees. If a tree stops growing or starts to struggle stop tapping and let the tree rest.

That's about it, now all you need to do is decide, liquid latex, cup or sheet. The rest is just sit in your comfortable tappers hut watching your workers toil in the hot sun, while you drink cold beer and think of your friends back home doing the 9 to 5 grind.

I had little fun today with all this input, The Kamnan was in my shop today with 3 big shot, he was buying some pliers and wrenchs, so i ask how was your day? He said they just been to a plot looking to buy a 216 rai rubber plantation. The 3 guys weren't interested in talking initially, but i mention 80 plants per rai in 3 x 7m row, they startled

I continue explaining the different on seedling type, RIMM 600 Rimm 251 and JVP 80...Oh boy~ they were surrounding me listening like as if i a preacher...

"No...I don't own any rai of rubber...just knowledge that all "

Big shot or no big shot...sure made me looks smarter

[jamescollister]

RBH when you convince them you know everything about everything, ie internet. They will believe you are just one step above the village idiot, just like me. Jim

[scotbeve]

COOKED VEGETABLES

thats what a lot of the very young leaves of our newly planted rubbertrees ( planted 3 weeks ago ) looked like last week . Of course they died off and put us a bit in shock . The local nursery tells us that they have the same problem and we should not worry !!!

During the past 1-2 weeks the weather was extremly hot with humidity levels around 90-100 % all day long . If I was a young leaf I would want ot shrivell too .After about 3 weeks after planting the plants showed good signs of taking root and producing new leaves -and now this !! But serious ...what could this be . Rubberplants are supposed to live in hot weather like this . There is no indication of any fungus infestation. No standing water . No drought stress . Actually what I would consider pretty ideal growing conditions .

Are we really to sit back and relax or is there anything we need to do ?

Mobaan:

The ones I planted at the end of May, beginning of June did the same thing, leaves turn yellow and then fall off leaving a stick behind. They now look just fine, see photo. Once the roots begin to get into the soil the tree bounces right back. If happens every time we plant and it stresses me out too but they'll grow. However the flooding we've had up North right now doesn't help them.

Guys I'm starting a new thread called hearbreaking pictures for a rubber farmer. We got nailed by Nock-Ten

Ken

Sorry to hear about your water / flooding (?) problems. Hope you can rebound.

[philo]

I have read the thread (or most of it) but I am too confused about the numbers. Also I have no chance of control or influence what is happening to the rubber plantations I have spent millions of Baht on (in total 60 rai with around 5000 trees).

I am divorced and have written it all off as the future for our two children. The deal is that as it produces more I will pay less in child support.

But - if you do not mind - would anybody please comment on the information my ex wife has given me til now:

Tapping 1000 trees aged 7-8 (some at 6+?) years (imo they are too small, but as the other 4000 trees are aged 2-6 years I don't worry too much about the tapping life span).

The numbers are (all cups):

May 13 - May 29: 180 kg, 75-79 Baht pr. kg

May 30 - July 13: 150 kg, 65 Baht pr. kg

July 14 - July 19: No info.

July 20 - August 3: Gross Baht 11,000 (could be anything, f.ex. appr. 170 kg @ 65 Baht/kg)

Next sale is scheduled for August 17.

Ty in advance.