Thai Talk: Debate About The Debate Is Missing The Point

[webfact]

THAI TALK

Debate about the debate is missing the point

By Suthichai Yoon

The Nation

Despite all the denials and sarcastic comments from the Pheu Thai Party's executive, it is still possible that Yingluck Shinawatra will decide to debate Abhisit Vejjajiva, perhaps just a few days before the July 3 general election.

Yingluck is gearing up for the big confrontation with the country's best-known political debater in her own way. Abhisit has thrown down the gauntlet several times, in the hope of forcing Thaksin Shinawatra's "clone" to confront him on real issues.

Why have Yingluck's handlers advised her against a one-on-one face-off with Abhisit?

They have argued that such a debate would be a waste of time. It would be tantamount to a noisy squabble, something akin to a shouting match in a busy market that benefits nobody.

Yingluck herself, in an attempt to avoid an early verbal battle, to which she was admittedly new, has said that there will be "plenty of time for debate" in the House after the election. But an Abac Poll suggested that nearly 60 per cent of the people polled wanted to see an Abhisit-Yingluck debate.

PNET, a non-partisan election watchdog, has said it will organise a debate to which the leaders of six major political parties will be invited to "show their visions" to the voters. Last time such a public forum was held, Thaksin Shinawatra, then leader of the Thai Rak Thai party, refused to take part. The organisers placed a huge picture of Thaksin in the empty seat allocated for the leader of the biggest party in the country.

But is a live televised debate a crucial part of parliamentary democracy?

As far as Thai politics goes, those who think they will win will try to avoid a debate. It is believed that if you are the underdog, a debate could turn the tide. But that's electioneering tactics. One must consider how and whether a live debate would benefit voters.

It has been said that the two major prerequisites of democracy are the fair and inclusive right to vote and the opportunity to conduct informed, uncensored public discussion of ideas.

But those against the idea of a debate argue that there is no need for an adversarial confrontation between the leading candidates, who may only try to "win" through rhetoric rather than substance. In this digital age, they insist, voters can have access to all the information they need about the candidates any time, anywhere, without opponents having to exchange blows in public.

But precisely because we are caught in this digital age, the need for a vigorous, well-moderated debate is even more important. True, individuals can self-select the information they want from a multitude of sources. But often that means picking and choosing information that conforms to their existing views, thereby reinforcing their respective biases.

It is important to realise that election debates, if carried out in a professional manner, have the positive effect of compelling individual voters to hear opposing positions on the issues that are crucial to their decision-making. In other words, in a democracy, the public should be given the chance to hear all points of view from all parties concerned before they enter the polling booth to cast their ballots.

The fact that Thailand hasn't written into law the creation of a Thailand Debates Cooperative to organise such discussions doesn't mean the Election Commission can't take that initiative for future elections.

For this election, the choice of the next Parliament and prime minister is vital to the future of political reform and national reconciliation. It is imperative that the two PM hopefuls, representing two extremes of the spectrum, must be required to step forward together in a debate that will shed light on how they intend to take this country forward.

It's not about the presentation style. It's all about the quality of leadership, the substance of the policies and, most important, a public appearance to pledge to the whole country that they will accept the outcome of this election, whatever it may be.

-- The Nation 2011-05-26

[maewrocks]

We don't need a debater AV we need someone that can implement policy & heal rifts. "Good at talking only"

[FOODLOVER]

I'm still trying to figure out the "Clone" comment. Was this supposed to help his sister?

[animatic]

You can not implement policy and heal divisions if you can not articulate policy vision and specific points, one on one, AND to a group under preassure. A debate puts into stark relief the debators communications skills. Politics is very much about communications.

[virtualtraveller]

If it's not standard (ie like in a US election), the it's the party's prerogative whether or not to agree, and if their candidate lacks the debating skills then of course they are going to decline, and of course the other side is going to continually challenge them to a debate to underscore their reluctance.

Point here is; parliamentary activity is all about debating so it's important that any future PMs display their skills prior to us selecting them. In this respect Dems have an advantage in Abhisit's experience and good debating skill, but want we really want to see his how well Yingluck can debate, and since she is a complete unknown to us all it's doubly important we get to see how she copes.

And the real issue is; we all know she's just a clone (especially Puea Thai) and that a debate will only expose their farce. I'm sure she might perform better than expected but she's going to get caught out if she has to answer on the spot without putting a call into Dubai. That is the crux of this matter and the Dems are right to continually push this point by asking again and again why she's unwilling to face a debate.

[Buchholz]

Thaksin Shinawatra, then leader of the Thai Rak Thai party, refused to take part. The organisers placed a huge

picture of Thaksin in the empty seat allocated for the leader of the biggest party in the country.

Get Yingluck's cut-out ready.

.

[Prichard]

No, the political debate is not for determining who is “good at talking only”. By hearing on first account and in a controlled environment the voters can assess the overall qualifications and qualities of the candidates, i.e., party’s policies, visions for promoting and improving the welfare of the country and its citizens, communication skills – what to say, what not to say, when and how to say it, to name but a few. This debate is for a country leader and its voters deserve to learn and know more about the candidates rather than hearing them through a frenzy crowd during “dog and pony” shows currently going on around the country.

If there will be a political debate in Thailand, I hope that the organizer will have a rule not allowing the candidates to carry mobile phone and wear earphone or to have a personal video/audio link from external source. This is to ensure that the candidate is expressing his/her own opinion. He/she must response in a spontaneous fashion without any unreasonable delay. A long delay or a long pause could be construed that the candidate is receiving instruction/response from an external source.

This is not to say that he/she who wins the debate will go on and becomes the best PM and can eventually lead the country to the promise land. That’s totally different story. That’s politics. Cheers.

[hyperdimension]

Thaksin Shinawatra, then leader of the Thai Rak Thai party, refused to take part. The organisers placed a huge

picture of Thaksin in the empty seat allocated for the leader of the biggest party in the country.

Get Yingluck's cut-out ready.

.

... or just reuse that picture of Thaksin;

Or show a switched-on television screen that is meant to be a live satellite link to Thaksin himself so that he can decide to enter the debate at any time if he suddenly feels compelled to.

[otherstuff1957]

The PT leaders have to ask themselves what they would gain from a debate. The polls currently show them ahead of the Democrats, but still not getting a clear majority. Could they get a clear majority with a boost from a debate? Unlikely.

The other factor that they would need to consider is Yingluck's demeanor during the debate. If she starts crying, as she has done during some campaign speeches, how will people perceive it? Would they see her as weak and unsuited for the job? Or would they view Abhiset as a bully? If the second is true, they probably wouldn't hesitate to throw here to the wolves.

[madmitch]

They mention "this digital age" but how many of Pheu Thais probable supporters would use the internet on a regular basis?

[jimmybkk]

Love him or hate him you can't take it away from Mr. T that one thing he was very good at was winning elections. Unless things have changed over the past few years the chances are his formula will still work. He won without turning up for the debate so why shouldn't she.

[samurai]

They mention "this digital age" but how many of Pheu Thais probable supporters would use the internet on a regular basis?

Go to google trends and check how many search engine traffic the names of different Thai politicians generate. That might give you an idea. what Thai internet user are looking for.

Like here for example:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Thaksin%2C+Abhisit&ctab=0&geo=all&geor=all&date=all&sort=0

You should of course use their names in Thai. But because English is the only language allowed in the news, I am not allowed to post a link for the Thai version.

Another way to find out what Thai internet user are up to is to check at the website this article speaks of:

In this digital age some question are easy to answer.

You might wanna also check to how many websites were blocked by the Ministry for Information and Communication Technology.

[whybother]

They mention "this digital age" but how many of Pheu Thais probable supporters would use the internet on a regular basis?

Go to google trends and check how many search engine traffic the names of different Thai politicians generate. That might give you an idea. what Thai internet user are looking for.

Like here for example:

http://www.google.co...date=all&sort=0

You should of course use their names in Thai. But because English is the only language allowed in the news, I am not allowed to post a link for the Thai version.

Another way to find out what Thai internet user are up to is to check at the website this article speaks of:

http://www.thaivisa....ines-last-year/

In this digital age some question are easy to answer.

You might wanna also check to how many websites were blocked by the Ministry for Information and Communication Technology.

Are they "Peau Thai probable supporters" or just people trying to find out what lies PTP are telling?

"Lies, dam_n Lies, and Statistics"

[samurai]

They mention "this digital age" but how many of Pheu Thais probable supporters would use the internet on a regular basis?

Go to google trends and check how many search engine traffic the names of different Thai politicians generate. That might give you an idea. what Thai internet user are looking for.

Like here for example:

http://www.google.co...date=all&sort=0

You should of course use their names in Thai. But because English is the only language allowed in the news, I am not allowed to post a link for the Thai version.

Another way to find out what Thai internet user are up to is to check at the website this article speaks of:

http://www.thaivisa....ines-last-year/

In this digital age some question are easy to answer.

You might wanna also check to how many websites were blocked by the Ministry for Information and Communication Technology.

Are they "Peau Thai probable supporters" or just people trying to find out what lies PTP are telling?

"Lies, dam_n Lies, and Statistics"

What your common sense tells you?

[whybother]

Are they "Peau Thai probable supporters" or just people trying to find out what lies PTP are telling?

"Lies, dam_n Lies, and Statistics"

What your common sense tells you?

I know I do a lot more search for PTP related articles than for Abhisit ... so, my common sense tells me that the statistics that you were showing don't mean anything.

[samurai]

Are they "Peau Thai probable supporters" or just people trying to find out what lies PTP are telling?

"Lies, dam_n Lies, and Statistics"

What your common sense tells you?

I know I do a lot more search for PTP related articles than for Abhisit ... so, my common sense tells me that the statistics that you were showing don't mean anything.

What makes you think you personal search engine has any significance in relation how the swarm moves through the web?

Do you search in Thai?

I notice that there is not much traffic generated by people looking for Abhisit. Would your explanation be that it indicates that no-one hates Abhisit and because he tells no lies, no-one waste time to check what he says.

Anyway, whoever looks up for PTP, Yingluck or Thaksin. they spark interests in the interwebs. Meanwhile the Democrats who even run some fancy new social media shows don't get much attention.

So at least for the PTP, the argument: "In this digital age, they insist, voters can have access to all the information they need about the candidates any time, anywhere, " seems to be valid.

And if you know how much lies the PTP tells, why do you want them to appear on television?

I am pretty sure otherwise you would argue to close the red media channels like their radio and TV station and websites and that is rights so to arrest and jail publisher of red print media.

[ratcatcher]

It should really come as no surprise to anybody in this country that Ms Yingluck is receiving lots of attention. She is a fresh face, attractive and a novelty as the first potential female Prime Minister in this rather chauvinistic land.

However there is more to governing a country than just looking cute in photo ops and crying spontaneously when the occasion demands. Her management experience has all been in Shinawatra owned companies where she has existed on the mere mention of her name. Jobs were created for her at the very top based more likely on who she was rather than what she knew. No doubt she performed these jobs very well.

A year ago, no-one would have dreamed that Thaksin would thrust his sister into the political arena in such a fashion.

A couple of sayings come to mind.

“She’s all fart and no shit” when a person uses empty promises.

“All ads but nothing in the store” all talk, little substance.

Only time will tell.

[samurai]

It should really come as no surprise to anybody in this country that Ms Yingluck is receiving lots of attention. She is a fresh face, attractive and a novelty as the first potential female Prime Minister in this rather chauvinistic land.

However there is more to governing a country than just looking cute in photo ops and crying spontaneously when the occasion demands. Her management experience has all been in Shinawatra owned companies where she has existed on the mere mention of her name. Jobs were created for her at the very top based more likely on who she was rather than what she knew. No doubt she performed these jobs very well.

A year ago, no-one would have dreamed that Thaksin would thrust his sister into the political arena in such a fashion.

A couple of sayings come to mind.

“She’s all fart and no shit” when a person uses empty promises.

“All ads but nothing in the store” all talk, little substance.

Only time will tell.

Just like Abhisit.

Except that he don't get some attention, nor will win the election.

[rubl]

Just like Abhisit.

Except that he don't get some attention, nor will win the election.

At least all your references to k. Abhisit must have increased the hit-rate for him tremendously

[samurai]

Just like Abhisit.

Except that he don't get some attention, nor will win the election.

At least all your references to k. Abhisit must have increased the hit-rate for him tremendously

the thread is about "Missing The Point"

[yoshiwara]

It should really come as no surprise to anybody in this country that Ms Yingluck is receiving lots of attention. She is a fresh face, attractive and a novelty as the first potential female Prime Minister in this rather chauvinistic land.

However there is more to governing a country than just looking cute in photo ops and crying spontaneously when the occasion demands. Her management experience has all been in Shinawatra owned companies where she has existed on the mere mention of her name. Jobs were created for her at the very top based more likely on who she was rather than what she knew. No doubt she performed these jobs very well.

A year ago, no-one would have dreamed that Thaksin would thrust his sister into the political arena in such a fashion.

A couple of sayings come to mind.

“She’s all fart and no shit” when a person uses empty promises.

“All ads but nothing in the store” all talk, little substance.

Only time will tell.

Just like Abhisit.

Except that he don't get some attention, nor will win the election.

Red predictions are about as useful as their prediction of peaceful intentions in May 2010.