Bar Owners Beware- Music "Police" Scam

[JurgenG]

There is currently a couple of threads telling the sad stories of foreign bar owners in Thailand.

But is it legal for a foreigner to own and/or operate a bar in Thailand ?

[Richard4849]

There is currently a couple of threads telling the sad stories of foreign bar owners in Thailand.

But is it legal for a foreigner to own and/or operate a bar in Thailand ?

If they have the proper paperwork (business registration, work permit) -- yes, sure.

Most nationalities (other than American) can only hold 49% of the shares in a business, but this can be gotten around by director rights in the same way that is commonly done to register land ownership.

[JurgenG]

^ Once you have solved the problem of the ownership, is it easy to get a work permit to run a bar ?

[fester471]

This scam is not only being orchestrated against foreigners many Thai's have been stung too.... look at the video I posted both are businesses run by Thai's not Farang

[truevista63]

This group also extorts money from Restaurants

My friend runs a small cafe in Chiang Mai completely legal restaurant operation.

He has a music license. They were not interested at even looking at it.

My friend broke down to these people and was told to pay 200,000 baht

at the end of the night he ended up paying 20,000 baht and they went away

Amazing Thailand

Yes, The Police are involved and paid to look the other way

The Police are more out of control now then ever before

I have been living in Thailand 15 years now and from what I see it is getting worse

Not just bars, There is so much corruption from the Police it is out of control and know-one can do anything about it, Sad

P.S. There is only one Mafia in Thailand,, " The Royal Thai Police"

[Mirth]

It's not only music license. The scam is on every license be it music, beer, business or whatever. These scammers prey on the gullibles through acting tough and if you have all the necessary licenses, just pull down the shutters, lock them in and call the police. I just did that recently. The scammers asked for 50,000 but when i told the police i will donate all amount to them, they multiply it by 10. Scammers ended up paying 500,000 and anything happen to my shop for the next 12 months, they are automatically the culprits.

[blabla1]

The thirsty beaver now the maple leaf got hit the other night in Chiang mai, Thai owner, they pay police protection,but their guys were over ridden by a bigger policeman ,so the owner was taken to jail and had to pay a negotiated fee of around 15000, i have photos of the guys who raided my place, not the same guys in the video posted here.

The only so called legitimate music license company , is one stop music in BKK, they are the official,reps of foreign copyright, but i have just heard they are also a scam and can't protect you, so now i took off all music out of my place, if you go to business registration offices and tell them about playing music,their answer is, you can play what you like!

It's time to pull out baseball bats and bring these scam problems to a head!!

[blabla1]

So you paid, the Police? it means you paid the scamers,they just made you feel good!!

It's not only music license. The scam is on every license be it music, beer, business or whatever. These scammers prey on the gullibles through acting tough and if you have all the necessary licenses, just pull down the shutters, lock them in and call the police. I just did that recently. The scammers asked for 50,000 but when i told the police i will donate all amount to them, they multiply it by 10. Scammers ended up paying 500,000 and anything happen to my shop for the next 12 months, they are automatically the culprits.

[Ulysses G.]

This group also extorts money from Restaurants

My friend runs a small cafe in Chiang Mai completely legal restaurant operation.

He has a music license. They were not interested at even looking at it.

The Thai women who owns the A__ Cafe in CM got scammed by this group and she is pretty wealthy. She even called her lawyer who told her to pay, but bargained the price down a bit.

[fester471]

The thirsty beaver now the maple leaf got hit the other night in Chiang mai, Thai owner, they pay police protection,but their guys were over ridden by a bigger policeman ,so the owner was taken to jail and had to pay a negotiated fee of around 15000, i have photos of the guys who raided my place, not the same guys in the video posted here.

The only so called legitimate music license company , is one stop music in BKK, they are the official,reps of foreign copyright, but i have just heard they are also a scam and can't protect you, so now i took off all music out of my place, if you go to business registration offices and tell them about playing music,their answer is, you can play what you like!

It's time to pull out baseball bats and bring these scam problems to a head!!

What you say about one stop music is not entirely correct, there is another company which has Licenses for both Western & Thai music known as RS they provide a lot of licensing for Thai businesses and are the ones who have taken action in Pattaya and are currently building a case against these people in Chiang Mai, make contact with them if you wish and provide what evidence you have to help get these people at least prosecuted.

The problem is that its the police who are the real culprits and will never be caught, I feel sorry for you that you paid the 15000bt , if it happens again lay counter criminal charges against them, you can bend the truth as much as they do if you have reliable witnesses then stand up to them and pay nothing they will never go to court as its all false, your charges however are more likely to be upheld. Remember in Thailand you are guilty until proven innocent this works in your favour especially in a case of assault or kidnapping , which is what they do. Certainly defend yourself but never hit them first if it gets to that because you could be in big trouble.

[fester471]

Since PM Abbisit has just made a speech about stamping out corruption, see Thai Visa news 2/6, can anyone suggest how we get this information to him directly?

Maybe if some heat was brought to bear during an election campaign the police in Pattaya & at Chang Puak Police station in Chiang Mai might actually get into some trouble.

Heaven forbid if Thaksin gets back in he was the one who made this stuff an art form it will only get worse, but if course the poor Thai people cant seem to see what damage he has done to their society.

[Mirth]

So you paid, the Police? it means you paid the scamers,they just made you feel good

Thai law is simple, if someone tries to scam 50,000 from you and you can prove that you have done no wrong, the party trying to scam pays the one they try to scam. In this case, since they try to scam 50,000 from me, they have to pay me 50,000 instead since i made it a police case.

By donating the amount to the police, they charge the scammers the maximum amount that can be penalised by law which is multiply by 10 hence the scammers have to pay the police, not me.

Whether i feel good or not, i don't care and never will. I just don't enjoy people looking for free lunches be it thailand or anywhere else.

[blabla1]

No dis respect intended, but pease keep us informed of the case,where the maffia pays 10 times more!

So you paid, the Police? it means you paid the scamers,they just made you feel good

Thai law is simple, if someone tries to scam 50,000 from you and you can prove that you have done no wrong, the party trying to scam pays the one they try to scam. In this case, since they try to scam 50,000 from me, they have to pay me 50,000 instead since i made it a police case.

By donating the amount to the police, they charge the scammers the maximum amount that can be penalised by law which is multiply by 10 hence the scammers have to pay the police, not me.

Whether i feel good or not, i don't care and never will. I just don't enjoy people looking for free lunches be it thailand or anywhere else.

[Mirth]

no disrespect intended either but as mentioned in previous post, the scammers already paid their "fine" to the police and sign a document that anything goes wrong with my shop, they are automatic the culprits.

No dis respect intended, but pease keep us informed of the case,where the maffia pays 10 times more!

So you paid, the Police? it means you paid the scamers,they just made you feel good

Thai law is simple, if someone tries to scam 50,000 from you and you can prove that you have done no wrong, the party trying to scam pays the one they try to scam. In this case, since they try to scam 50,000 from me, they have to pay me 50,000 instead since i made it a police case.

By donating the amount to the police, they charge the scammers the maximum amount that can be penalised by law which is multiply by 10 hence the scammers have to pay the police, not me.

Whether i feel good or not, i don't care and never will. I just don't enjoy people looking for free lunches be it thailand or anywhere else.

[blabla1]

Mirth, TIT, not dreamland, please supply us with the written charge and proof that they paid Police, because this is not normal practice, if every bar owner did like you, they (the Police) would get richer much faster, it's cheaper and easier to talk the price down, you lost 50000, they split 50000 and told you stories, then againTIT, i could be wrong..

[Richard4849]

What's being paid (apparently) are civil damages to the music rights owner, in exchange for dropping criminal copyright infringement charges.

I am still flummoxed as to why anyone would pay if they were not in the wrong and/or thought the raid party were impostors.

If it were me, I'd say I decline to settle out of court with you. File criminal charges if you want, and we'll see what the judge has to say. And, by the way, if you are on my premises uninvited without a Court-issued search warrant, you are hereby charged with trespassing.

Why are people such push-overs if they supposedly have done nothing wrong?

[Mirth]

Mirth, TIT, not dreamland, please supply us with the written charge and proof that they paid Police, because this is not normal practice, if every bar owner did like you, they (the Police) would get richer much faster, it's cheaper and easier to talk the price down, you lost 50000, they split 50000 and told you stories, then againTIT, i could be wrong..

Call it dreamland or call me a liar as you wish, am just stating the scenerio as it happened. The only people who pay are the ones genuinely in the wrong. On a daily basis, millions are paid out just so that businesses can do things illegally and these are where the mafia and police enjoy doing their scams or duties just to close their eyes. It's no different doing businesses here than our homeland, just that the laws here are more lax. If business owner don't want any trouble or problem with their business, then just do it here as they would back home.

[blabla1]

Here here! exactly.

What's being paid (apparently) are civil damages to the music rights owner, in exchange for dropping criminal copyright infringement charges.

I am still flummoxed as to why anyone would pay if they were not in the wrong and/or thought the raid party were impostors.

If it were me, I'd say I decline to settle out of court with you. File criminal charges if you want, and we'll see what the judge has to say. And, by the way, if you are on my premises uninvited without a Court-issued search warrant, you are hereby charged with trespassing.

Why are people such push-overs if they supposedly have done nothing wrong?

[Mirth]

Mirth, TIT, not dreamland, please supply us with the written charge and proof that they paid Police, because this is not normal practice, if every bar owner did like you, they (the Police) would get richer much faster, it's cheaper and easier to talk the price down, you lost 50000, they split 50000 and told you stories, then againTIT, i could be wrong..

In what way i lost 50,000????

[blabla1]

On a final note, there is really nothing legal you can do, they will get you one way or another, you will pay, the maffia,the Police, end of story! beam me up Scotty, over and out!

[saintofsilence]

Since PM Abbisit has just made a speech about stamping out corruption, see Thai Visa news 2/6, can anyone suggest how we get this information to him directly?

Maybe if some heat was brought to bear during an election campaign the police in Pattaya & at Chang Puak Police station in Chiang Mai might actually get into some trouble.

Heaven forbid if Thaksin gets back in he was the one who made this stuff an art form it will only get worse, but if course the poor Thai people cant seem to see what damage he has done to their society.

Post it on his facebook page

[blabla1]

You said you donated the money to the Police,that is LOST my friend!!

Mirth, TIT, not dreamland, please supply us with the written charge and proof that they paid Police, because this is not normal practice, if every bar owner did like you, they (the Police) would get richer much faster, it's cheaper and easier to talk the price down, you lost 50000, they split 50000 and told you stories, then againTIT, i could be wrong..

In what way i lost 50,000????

[Mirth]

You said you donated the money to the Police,that is LOST my friend!!

Ah okie, am sure you would happily take the 50,000 from the scammers and they return the next few days to look for other troubles and we can have a new thread about unhappy scammers retribution.

[blabla1]

Scotty,beam me up, that's an order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nocturn]

This group also extorts money from Restaurants

My friend runs a small cafe in Chiang Mai completely legal restaurant operation.

He has a music license. They were not interested at even looking at it.

The Thai women who owns the A__ Cafe in CM got scammed by this group and she is pretty wealthy. She even called her lawyer who told her to pay, but bargained the price down a bit.

time to find a new lawyer methinks

[Guest siamjourney]

After reading several of the music police threads one gets the impression that if they choose you you've already lost. I have lots of questions:

Does anyone know a 'happy ending' where the owner showed their current 1StopMusic license and the bad guys went away? Does anyone know of anyone who after not being presented with proper ID and a proper search warrant (name of establishment to search, etc..) asked the bad guys to leave and they actually left? Does anyone know of anyone not paying off money that night and having the incident end up in a court of law? If so how did it work out? Has anyone tried to go to the police preemptively to find out how to prevent a raid in the first place? Finally, many people have asked for the name of a great lawyer who would be available to fight these guys at midnight but I've yet to see one named.

[blakegeee]

<br />After reading several of the music police threads one gets the impression that if they choose you you've already lost.  I have lots of questions:<br /><br />Does anyone know a 'happy ending' where the owner showed their current 1StopMusic license and the bad guys went away?  Does anyone know of anyone who after not being presented with proper ID and a proper search warrant (name of establishment to search, etc..) asked the bad guys to leave and they actually left?  Does anyone know of anyone not paying off money that night and having the incident end up in a court of law?  If so how did it work out?  Has anyone tried to go to the police preemptively to find out how to prevent a raid in the first place?  Finally, many people have asked for the name of a great lawyer who would be available to fight these guys at midnight but I've yet to see one named.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

They came to my bar 2 times in 2009. The first time, the wife and I were not there, and we weren't prepared for this sort of thing. That was the first we has heard about it. The staff made both mistakes;

-Allowed them to take stereo, ipod, etc as well as my laptop which was not even hooked up to anything or turned on

-And the staff went with them to the station.

We needed our stuff back, were ignorant to the whole situation so the wife went down, negotiated from 50,000 to 15,000 and called it a night.

Then they came back again in Sept 2009. This time we were ready with a camera, etc and the wife and I were both there. I got a photo of the boss red shirt guy from second video, as well as his sidekick, driver, and fortuner including number plates. The windows were blacked out but there was a lady in the back of the fortuner calling the shots but not showing her face. They didn't like the photos being taken and quickly ran out of the bar to stop me. They tried taking my camera, tried taking me but I didn't let them do either. After a big scene in the road, they took off empty handed. They haven't come back...yet.

Since then, we bought the MCT (1-Stop) licence. This last time they were there, our neighbours already had the license and these scammers weren't interested in it. They said its no good, didn't want to see it, etc. They refuse to show id or even say who they work for. They do not own the rights to anything and are nothing more than extortionists. They are so successful simply because most bar-owner/managers do not know their rights. Because some "big-shot" music company guy tells them that he can look around, confiscate things, take people to the police station, etc, the bar managers take their word for it. They prey on ignorance.

I am considering posting the photos somewhere but am concerned about pissing these guys off more which is asking for more trouble...

[Tokay]

Why would you play Thai music in your bar anyway (unless you cater to Thais)? I go out of my way to avoid places playing Thai music.

[Tokay]

I got a photo of the boss red shirt guy from second video, as well as his sidekick, driver, and fortuner including number plates. The windows were blacked out but there was a lady in the back of the fortuner calling the shots but not showing her face. They didn't like the photos being taken and quickly ran out of the bar to stop me. They tried taking my camera, tried taking me but I didn't let them do either.

You did the right thing. You should install a good CCTV and a recorder. Get them from every angle next time and show them to the world.

[fester471]

<br />

<br />After reading several of the music police threads one gets the impression that if they choose you you've already lost.  I have lots of questions:<br /><br />Does anyone know a 'happy ending' where the owner showed their current 1StopMusic license and the bad guys went away?  Does anyone know of anyone who after not being presented with proper ID and a proper search warrant (name of establishment to search, etc..) asked the bad guys to leave and they actually left?  Does anyone know of anyone not paying off money that night and having the incident end up in a court of law?  If so how did it work out?  Has anyone tried to go to the police preemptively to find out how to prevent a raid in the first place?  Finally, many people have asked for the name of a great lawyer who would be available to fight these guys at midnight but I've yet to see one named.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />They came to my bar 2 times in 2009. The first time, the wife and I were not there, and we weren't prepared for this sort of thing. That was the first we has heard about it. The staff made both mistakes; <br />-Allowed them to take stereo, ipod, etc as well as my laptop which was not even hooked up to anything or turned on<br />-And the staff went with them to the station.<br />We needed our stuff back, were ignorant to the whole situation so the wife went down, negotiated from 50,000 to 15,000 and called it a night. <br /><br />Then they came back again in Sept 2009. This time we were ready with a camera, etc and the wife and I were both there. I got a photo of the boss red shirt guy from second video, as well as his sidekick, driver, and fortuner including number plates. The windows were blacked out but there was a lady in the back of the fortuner calling the shots but not showing her face. They didn't like the photos being taken and quickly ran out of the bar to stop me. They tried taking my camera, tried taking me but I didn't let them do either. After a big scene in the road, they took off empty handed. They haven't come back...yet.<br /><br />Since then, we bought the MCT (1-Stop) licence. This last time they were there, our neighbours already had the license and these scammers weren't interested in it. They said its no good, didn't want to see it, etc. They refuse to show id or even say who they work for. They do not own the rights to anything and are nothing more than extortionists. They are so successful simply because most bar-owner/managers do not know their rights. Because some "big-shot" music company guy tells them that he can look around, confiscate things, take people to the police station, etc, the bar managers take their word for it. They prey on ignorance.<br /><br />I am considering posting the photos somewhere but am concerned about pissing these guys off more which is asking for more trouble...<br />

<br /><br /><br />

In the situation I originally posted here as with you they dont care if you have a real licence this bar had both one stop and RS, for kareoke, they are just mafia. The problem is they are a front for the police which is why there is little point in getting them involved you have to stand up to them , take photos, and lay criminal charges if they do to you its the only way and never pay them anything.

Please post the photos the more times their faces are shown people will recognise who they really are. The woman is a very nasty little b..ch but is a complete coward when threatened which people involved in my case did and she hid in the car when confronted, fight fire with fire as they say but be careful they are nasty people.

Interestingly the Chang Puak police took some revenge for not receiving their money and set up a breath test unit a few nights later near the bar in question , in a location they have never been seen before.