Sugar Disaster On Chao Phraya River

[Bagwan]

http://www.fishesoxford.co.uk/ Check out this cultural experience.

If fishes is perfectly acceptable in Oxford, home of OED, the recognised authority on the English language, then all bets should be off. However I think that the word is obsolescent if not obsolete save for the Biblical reference. Surely most would use the phase 'many varieties of fish' rather than 'lots of fishes'.

How odd that there should be discussion and disagreement on etymological matters in a forum where those who were unable to acquire a sound knowledge of their native tongue, and/or recognise the benefits of a spell-checker, take those who set their sights higher in these respects to task.

[Soutpeel]

Reports talk of a barge which in my terminology means a floating transporter with a power unit and steering arrangements.

A barge can on its own power or towed....usually the term dumb barge is used to define a barge which is towed..

[RickBradford]

Yes, from the newspapers and TV it looks like one of those huge non-powered barges which are towed by a little tug about one-tenth of their size, although my newspaper this morning describes it just as a boat ('reua').

[FOODLOVER]

Joy to the world

All the boys and girls now

Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea

Joy to you and me

Three Dog Night

Oxford blows

[ginjag]

Soutpeel #62

Memories Ha, ref to your "towed" as in example---- horse drawn (canal) style ?? Towpath !

Bagwan, thanks for the dads army reminder--5555 so stupid but hilarious. My father was in that (regiment) L.D.V. local defense volunteers, In Lincolnshire,U.K. they call it -look -duck-and vanish. sorry for a little off topic for once :jap:

Edited June 4, 2011 by ginjag

[SiangDeeMahk]

I know aeration is needed for fish and to keep water from getting stagnant. But how on earth do they think pumping air into the water will help take care of the sugar that has desolved in the water.

Because the aerobic bacteria in the water will digest the sugar which is organic. It is the same principle we use in designing sewage plants to treat sewage, and the same principle used in aeration lagoons. The aerobic bacteria will digest the sugar rapidly.

Mmmm.. and what is the natural byproduct of billions of bacteria as they eat the sugar in a solution? For the right kind of bacteria, it's gonna be alcohol (or, it could be Carbon Dioxide, too). Won't THAT be a great addition to the river's chemistry.

Ok, these people can turn a boatload of sucrose into a toxic disater, so who's ready to build (and then hand over the ignition keys to) a Nuclear power plant in Thailand.? Anyone? Anyone?

[Richard W]

T.I.T. no need to knock the translation obviously "melted" is a direct translation from Thai whereas we use the word "dissolved".

Though deprecated, the use of 'melt' for 'dissolve' is quite common in English.

[wandrinstar]

The E.U. are donating 200 Surplus Human Rights Lawyers to defend the Fish.

[ginjag]

Yes, from the newspapers and TV it looks like one of those huge non-powered barges which are towed by a little tug about one-tenth of their size, although my newspaper this morning describes it just as a boat ('reua').

I just wonder if the word GREED came to mind with any posters---was the barge overloaded ?? with that weight sounds a bit heavy on that part of the river. Did the owner fall asleep? had he passed his river license, ?? he should have been more aware of tides and water movements. Those single double and TRIPLE overloaded antique lorries transporting sugar cane around, so high they break down trees and 25% of the lorries are left to die on their side on the side of the road. ANOTHER Greedy industry. Then they pay 200 bht a day for the cutters. These big companies should be behind bars-together with the bib that allow overloads.

[Soutpeel]

Yes, from the newspapers and TV it looks like one of those huge non-powered barges which are towed by a little tug about one-tenth of their size, although my newspaper this morning describes it just as a boat ('reua').

I just wonder if the word GREED came to mind with any posters---was the barge overloaded ?? with that weight sounds a bit heavy on that part of the river. Did the owner fall asleep? had he passed his river license, ?? he should have been more aware of tides and water movements.

The first of the resident TV master mariners rears their head... ...please explain the "bit heavy on that part of the river"... I am intrigued

The owner could most likely have fallen asleep and may not have a "river license", but possibly irrelevant as the "owner" of the either the vessel/barge or sugar was most likley not even anywhere near the river at the time...

[FOODLOVER]

T.I.T. no need to knock the translation obviously "melted" is a direct translation from Thai whereas we use the word "dissolved".

Though deprecated, the use of 'melt' for 'dissolve' is quite common in English.

I think the application of a heat source is the difference. When working with pulled sugar you melt the sugar slowly so there is very little moisture but if you are making simple syrup you dissolve the sugar in water and then bring to simmer. Just a note, if just one drop of water hits the sugar during caramelization you will then cause a chain reaction crystallization affect which will leave you with a nice batch of rock candy. Great for fancy coffee and tea service though. peas be with you!

[ginjag]

Yes, from the newspapers and TV it looks like one of those huge non-powered barges which are towed by a little tug about one-tenth of their size, although my newspaper this morning describes it just as a boat ('reua').

I just wonder if the word GREED came to mind with any posters---was the barge overloaded ?? with that weight sounds a bit heavy on that part of the river. Did the owner fall asleep? had he passed his river license, ?? he should have been more aware of tides and water movements.

The first of the resident TV master mariners rears their head... ...please explain the "bit heavy on that part of the river"... I am intrigued

The owner could most likely have fallen asleep and may not have a "river license", but possibly irrelevant as the "owner" of the either the vessel/barge or sugar was most likley not even anywhere near the river at the time...

Was not being too bright,was I?? it was just a guess that as happens here owners are often the drivers of these vessels, and anyway if not then they are responsible for who at "the wheel" and the weight of the boat. IS HE NOT ??

my remark was not intended to get a response really only as observation of normal happenings. With not knowing who owns--who steered-- how heavy--mine was a sort of search-if you get my drift. Do you understand if the owner was in the MALDIVES he would still be responsible--so I didn't think my post could be so odd. I don't suppose you agree??? but I was interested you thought the owner could not be responsible as he wasn't around ????) Hey did you notice where it said it ""CRASHED""" rammed and smashed it;self wound be a better description. Adding weights of vessels and depths of water DOES have a bearing do they not ??

Edited June 5, 2011 by ginjag

[Soutpeel]

T.I.T. no need to knock the translation obviously "melted" is a direct translation from Thai whereas we use the word "dissolved".

Though deprecated, the use of 'melt' for 'dissolve' is quite common in English.

Really ...."melt" implies "heat or change in temperature" where dissolve does not..and someone whose 1st language is English would know instinctively which word to use in which situation..

[ginjag]

T.I.T. no need to knock the translation obviously "melted" is a direct translation from Thai whereas we use the word "dissolved".

Though deprecated, the use of 'melt' for 'dissolve' is quite common in English.

Really ...."melt" implies "heat or change in temperature" where dissolve does not..and someone whose 1st language is English would know instinctively which word to use in which situation..

You are correct, but we all don't want teachers posting to peoples typos or errors, as in my SUGAR reply you will get my drift.

[Soutpeel]

Yes, from the newspapers and TV it looks like one of those huge non-powered barges which are towed by a little tug about one-tenth of their size, although my newspaper this morning describes it just as a boat ('reua').

I just wonder if the word GREED came to mind with any posters---was the barge overloaded ?? with that weight sounds a bit heavy on that part of the river. Did the owner fall asleep? had he passed his river license, ?? he should have been more aware of tides and water movements.

The first of the resident TV master mariners rears their head... ...please explain the "bit heavy on that part of the river"... I am intrigued

The owner could most likely have fallen asleep and may not have a "river license", but possibly irrelevant as the "owner" of the either the vessel/barge or sugar was most likley not even anywhere near the river at the time...

Was not being too bright,was I?? it was just a guess that as happens here owners are often the drivers of these vessels, and anyway if not then they are responsible for who at "the wheel" and the weight of the boat. ??

I think the term your getting at taking about the "weight of the boat" is draft of the vessel ...this is what determines the minimum water depth a vessel can operate in....I havent seen the photos but I would hazard a guess and say the barge concerned was flat bottomed, therefore would have a very shallow draft...ie shallow water operation

Towed barges are very difficult to control even with experienced/competant masters and maybe a simple case of the master losing control of the barge and hitting something, it doesnt take much an impact to do a lot of damage due to the mass involved, this is not restricted to Thai mariner's....have seen this on many occassions in many parts of the world

[ginjag]

soutpeel#75

Thanks for reply, Suppose then it's up to the weight-stopping distance -Pilot-experience-tides- flow-so it wouldn't take too much to collide ===if the current was strong or the speed wasn't right= or the watch was poor== Tricky business this heavy sugar barge business. Margin of error should be taken into consideration. but do respect your points.

[elektrified]

It's not really a laughing matter. A lot of people lost a lot of money (one woman lost 5 million Baht). Also it's an environmental disaster.

[RickBradford]

No, it's not a laughing matter for those involved, but nor is it an environmental 'disaster' -- let's keep a sense of proportion.

A respected local news source has reported that 92% of the 2,400 tonnes of sugar have been cleared and that the level of dissolved oxygen has increased from 0.4 milligrams per litre two days ago to 3mg/l yesterday, where the normal level is between 3 and 6mg/l.

Edited June 5, 2011 by RickBradford

[FOODLOVER]

It's not really a laughing matter. A lot of people lost a lot of money (one woman lost 5 million Baht). Also it's an environmental disaster.

I have only seen the pics of the live ones, So where the dead feeshes? Thai gov has already started the hand out factory so there will be profit to be had up and down the line.,so to speak.

[elektrified]

No, it's not a long-term disaster, a short-term one for the people affected in the area. You are right.

They showed the dead fish on the news yesterday. As far as the eye could see were dead fish, mostly pla taptim (ปลาทับทิม)

[RickBradford]

Anyone interested can get a closer look at the area, the ship, and the clean-up efforts from

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmlfEQUoNBs

Most of this 13min 36s news segment (in Thai) is devoted to this incident -- at 10min or so, note the elephants being used to haul concrete pillars around the place.

Edited June 5, 2011 by RickBradford

[FOODLOVER]

Thank you for the video. I would like a link to the" As far as the eye could see were dead fish, mostly pla taptim (ปลาทับทิม) ", Only saw a few in the video. 5,000,000 baht claim for fish deaths! . From one lady! . This is local fish! . Please tell me it was not from the farm on the video because that whole business aint worth that including the house! This accident is being referred to as a disaster and required the Prime Minister. At least the elephants work for peanuts. Holy Crap!

[katana]

Pics of one of three giant stingray washed up on the riverbank downstream from the incident in Patumthanee province.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/region/176425

[ginjag]

It's not really a laughing matter. A lot of people lost a lot of money (one woman lost 5 million Baht). Also it's an environmental disaster.

I am not trying to be funny--but who reported she ACTUALLY lost 5 mill bht ??? (in fish alone) or is the POOR lady on the bandwagen like many claims will be. We don't know we tend to have to guess all the time, seldom does the whole truth ever unfold-Coincidence

[tomyummer]

...and now introducing a new fish sauce....sweetened!

[ginjag]

...and now introducing a new fish sauce....sweetened!

Very REFINED--I got BEET a lot at school with a CANE, one or two LUMPS on the hand, but never had a sugar daddy

[FOODLOVER]

It's not really a laughing matter. A lot of people lost a lot of money (one woman lost 5 million Baht). Also it's an environmental disaster.

I am not trying to be funny--but who reported she ACTUALLY lost 5 mill bht ??? (in fish alone) or is the POOR lady on the bandwagen like many claims will be. We don't know we tend to have to guess all the time, seldom does the whole truth ever unfold-Coincidence

"Several people who raise fish for a living, along with a Pathum Thani woman who claims to have lost Bt5 million worth of fish stock, have also filed complaints."

Sounds like a few more people on board so this number will increase presumably as it does not account for the home repairs.

[Bagwan]

Reports talk of a barge which in my terminology means a floating transporter with a power unit and steering arrangements.

A barge can on its own power or towed....usually the term dumb barge is used to define a barge which is towed..

So you,and nobody else either, knows the answer to my question. Since nobody has mentioned the vessel being a 'dumb barge' I assume that it was not a lighter - a term in use in London docks and the River Thames where they knew a thing or two about transporting goods by water. I understand that the term was borrowed from the Dutch - who also know a thing or two about the practice.

[FOODLOVER]

Reports talk of a barge which in my terminology means a floating transporter with a power unit and steering arrangements.

A barge can on its own power or towed....usually the term dumb barge is used to define a barge which is towed..

So you,and nobody else either, knows the answer to my question. Since nobody has mentioned the vessel being a 'dumb barge' I assume that it was not a lighter - a term in use in London docks and the River Thames where they knew a thing or two about transporting goods by water. I understand that the term was borrowed from the Dutch - who also know a thing or two about the practice.

Piloted barge with wheel house is what it looks to me in the video. Note the other barges hauling ass past the one on the bank. Very close together as well. If you look at the video that RickBradford kindly posted around the 8:10 mark i think they might be the same cruising by.Or not.

Edited June 6, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[phutoie2]

TV reports this morning saying that compensation will not be paid out due to it not being a natural disaster, (unlike flooding and rice crops destroyed).

The owner of the barge has not been forthcoming in offering compo either.