Thai PM Abhisit Slams Rivals' Thaksin 'Whitewash'

[webfact]

Thai PM slams rivals' Thaksin 'whitewash'

BANGKOK (AFP) - Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva accused the opposition Wednesday of inflaming political tensions by "whitewashing" the crimes of their de facto leader, fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Abhisit is in the midst of a tough electoral battle against Thaksin's allies in the Puea Thai party, who want an amnesty for politicians who have been charged or convicted if they win the July 3 vote.

This would potentially pave the way for the return of Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and lives abroad to avoid a jail term for corruption. He is also charged with terrorism in relation to unrest in Bangkok last year.

Abhisit, who heads the establishment-backed Democrat Party, said it did not make sense for political parties to "try to introduce fresh points of contention", such as "whitewashing Thaksin".

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

He said one of the Puea Thai leaders, Chalerm Yubamrung, "has been very clear about that. He wants Thaksin back, basically whitewashing Thaksin, and we offer the country to move beyond that problem."

Thaksin's youngest sister, political newcomer Yingluck Shinawatra, is the Puea Thai's top candidate for prime minister, underscoring her brother's ongoing dominance in Thailand's fractured political scene.

Parties linked to Thaksin have won the most seats in the past four elections, but the results of the last two were reversed by the courts.

Abhisit said that if Puea Thai wins the most seats they would "get the first shot" at forming a government.

Oxford-educated Abhisit, who came to power at the end of 2008 in a parliamentary vote and is accused by critics of having no popular mandate, said a return by Thaksin as a free man "doesn't augur well for the rule of law".

"He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to."

Thaksin, a former telecoms tycoon, is hailed by many rural and working-class Thais for his populist policies but loathed by the Bangkok-based elite which sees him as corrupt, authoritarian and a threat to the monarchy.

Protests by his "Red Shirt" supporters led to Thailand's worst civil violence in decades last April and May, in which more than 90 people died in clashes between the opposition street movement and security forces.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-06-09

[cougar52]

Before we again get on the band wagon of, "Thaksin has to serve his time" if he comes back.

How about those that are convicted but never serve their time, and are right here in Thailand. Names jump out at you like Sondhi, Thaksin's Brother-in-law, Thaksin's wife, Wife's brother and maid. And at least another 10 to 15 that I can think of that have never served their time.

Before some of you start to say, appeal process, Khun Sondhi is on bail on several cases and convicted on at least one. How can one still be on Bail after breaking the law again. If one is then arrested while on bail, it is a simple process of revoking the bail and the bail money then goes to the state. The effect of that is, if the bail is forfeited in each case the bond person is out the money or land or what ever was the surety of the bond, and it makes it very hard to get bond when you continue to break the law.

[Buchholz]

Before we again get on the band wagon of, "Thaksin has to serve his time" if he comes back.

How about those that are convicted but never serve their time, and are right here in Thailand. Names jump out at you like Sondhi, Thaksin's Brother-in-law, Thaksin's wife, Wife's brother and maid. And at least another 10 to 15 that I can think of that have never served their time.

Before some of you start to say, appeal process, Khun Sondhi is on bail on several cases and convicted on at least one. How can one still be on Bail after breaking the law again. If one is then arrested while on bail, it is a simple process of revoking the bail and the bail money then goes to the state. The effect of that is, if the bail is forfeited in each case the bond person is out the money or land or what ever was the surety of the bond, and it makes it very hard to get bond when you continue to break the law.

Granted the appeals process can be a lengthy one, eg. Potjaman was convicted nearly three years ago and still has yet to spend a single night in prison following her sentencing then, at least she and the other defendants are working within the framework of the legal system, such as it is, here.

The same can not be said for the fugitive from justice, Thaksin, who did not appeal his conviction.

Additionally, no one is attempting to "whitewash" their crimes by expunging them via an amnesty.

.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Buchholz

[ianbaggie]

I dont understand why anyone would be proud of winning the last four elections when they've achieved it through threats, vote buying, bribery, corruption, assisted bribery and false law suits - no matter how poular with the poor of Isan he may be, hes achieved it through bribery and corruption - "but the people love him" is not a defence for Thaksin, it wouldnt see a convicted criminal get into power in the west, although the exception of Italy and its leader Berlesconi springs to mind, but current events there should serve as a reminder.People bought up in western culture should know this. If the fugutive returns, bribery, corruption and scandal will return with him and the few rich in bangkok will be left paying for the bribes through their taxes, just like the last time - remember this mans crimes before you shout "bring him back".

Edited June 9, 2011 by ianbaggie

[hellodolly]

Would amnesty not just be a admission of guilt.

If you are innocent why would you need it?

Yes I know there are some being charged with crimes who might not be guiilty but that in no way means that if they go to trial they will be found guilty.

The way I see it is that the Puea Thai is saying the events in Bangkok a year ago were OK.

No big deal that as a direct result of a lot of the people they are seeking amnesty for 90 deaths and a attempt to burn Bangkok down occurred.

[random]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

[whybother]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

So, you're supporting someone that plans to give amnesty to everyone involved in lasts years deaths?

[MunterHunter]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

As i understood it, it was an Amnesty for everyone except the leaders of the government... they still want Suthep and Abhisit's blood...

[hellodolly]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

Perhaps you were not here when all the trouble happened. There is documented evidence that the red shirts were armed. Where did you ever get the idea they were unarmed?

In no way did the Government order the army to kill people. They were charged with stopping a illegal seizure of Municipal and private property. It was unfortunate that the criminals were armed and choose to fight rather than obey the law.

I am quite sure that if you were to stop and consider that if it was your property they illegally seized and turned into a garbage dump you might have a different out look on the event.

For myself I am a retiree living in Thailand. I am a farong and can not vote. I stand to gain absolutely nothing by trying to change reality. This allows me to take a honest look at events. For instance I supported the Red Shirt when they had there initial rally after about ten days it was abundantly clear that they did not support there ideas. They did not want democracy they wanted a dictatorship under there rule. Now if I had any thing to gain by there actions I might not have seen that I would have been looking at my personal gain.

[ianbaggie]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

Thaksin is convicted by a legal court and his absence proves his guilt. Abhisit is a victim of your attempts to apologise for the red shirts - theres a difference. Please provide proof of the killings ordered by the Government, (you can ignore the 30 killed by the black shirts on thaksins orders). Please provide proof that the army killed unarmed citizens. Those of us on planet earth would LOVE to read it!!

[ianbaggie]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

Perhaps you were not here when all the trouble happened. There is documented evidence that the red shirts were armed. Where did you ever get the idea they were unarmed?

In no way did the Government order the army to kill people. They were charged with stopping a illegal seizure of Municipal and private property. It was unfortunate that the criminals were armed and choose to fight rather than obey the law.

I am quite sure that if you were to stop and consider that if it was your property they illegally seized and turned into a garbage dump you might have a different out look on the event.

For myself I am a retiree living in Thailand. I am a farong and can not vote. I stand to gain absolutely nothing by trying to change reality. This allows me to take a honest look at events. For instance I supported the Red Shirt when they had there initial rally after about ten days it was abundantly clear that they did not support there ideas. They did not want democracy they wanted a dictatorship under there rule. Now if I had any thing to gain by there actions I might not have seen that I would have been looking at my personal gain.

an excellent clearly put reply

[animatic]

Before we again get on the band wagon of, "Thaksin has to serve his time" if he comes back.

How about those that are convicted but never serve their time, and are right here in Thailand. Names jump out at you like Sondhi, Thaksin's Brother-in-law, Thaksin's wife, Wife's brother and maid. And at least another 10 to 15 that I can think of that have never served their time.

Before some of you start to say, appeal process, Khun Sondhi is on bail on several cases and convicted on at least one. How can one still be on Bail after breaking the law again. If one is then arrested while on bail, it is a simple process of revoking the bail and the bail money then goes to the state. The effect of that is, if the bail is forfeited in each case the bond person is out the money or land or what ever was the surety of the bond, and it makes it very hard to get bond when you continue to break the law.

Granted the appeals process can be a lengthy one, eg. Potjaman was convicted nearly three years ago and still has yet to spend a single night in prison following her sentencing then, at least she and the other defendants are working within the framework of the legal system, such as it is, here.

The same can not be said for the fugitive from justice, Thaksin, who did not appeal his conviction.

Additionally, no one is attempting to "whitewash" their crimes by expunging them via an amnesty.

.

Additionally Thaksin has many other charges with MUCH longer incarcerations probable that are stalled in court, by his not appearing to acknowledge the charges. Something he could not do if he was in country. If he can call all his charges 'politically based' and then amnesty 'All Political Charges' after 2006, or return to '97 constitution he figurres he can avoid ALL court cases... It's not about the 2 years he's skipped on, but the 20 years for cumulative charges he faces. And the courts have proved willing to follow through on his prosecutions, so he has reason to think he WILL have to stand trial on his return unless he controls the ballgame personally.

[Buchholz]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

So, you're supporting someone that plans to give amnesty to everyone involved in lasts years deaths?

Nothing has ever been mentioned by Pheu Thai Party that the amnesty covers the Army.

It's just pie-in-the-sky speculation by the poster.

[hoaker]

Here comes back Thaksin and along with it the biggest riot of the century!!!!

[rixalex]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

So let me get this straight, if Abhisit is convicted of a crime and isn't white-washed, it will be his own silly fault and we can all say well that serves you right for having declared that all Thais should face the same justice?

[tragickingdom]

Abhisit and his master Suthep are bringing Thailand shame. The big whitewash is 93 demonstrators killed by army bullets and a security tzar telling the world that they were not shot by the military but that "they walked into the bullets". The international Criminal court or in a few decades the Thai courts will deal with either one and maybe also Thaksin time will tell. But Abhisit has as much or even more blood on his hands than Thaksin.

In Latin America we only see now military sponsored amnesty laws repelled and military commanders and prime ministers brought to justice. Not a great idea for a man in his 40's. Abhisit is simply a sore loser.

[bungalownights]

More than simply a sore loser, Abhisit is worried that he will be put behind bars for his alledged involvement in the deaths of 93 demonstrators. Not long now until Abhisit will be fugitive 2.0

[MunterHunter]

Guess he will have to share a cell with Thaksin then... oh yeah, thats right, PTP want amnesty for their allies and their sponsor. Just not for their enemies, right?

How do you spell Double-standards again?

[rixalex]

Abhisit and his master Suthep are bringing Thailand shame. The big whitewash is 93 demonstrators killed by army bullets and a security tzar telling the world that they were not shot by the military but that "they walked into the bullets". The international Criminal court or in a few decades the Thai courts will deal with either one and maybe also Thaksin time will tell. But Abhisit has as much or even more blood on his hands than Thaksin.

If we accept your supposition - and supposition with no supporting evidence is all it is - that Abhisit was responsible for the deaths of all 93 demonstrators, it still pales with thousands of innocent people killed during Thaksin's war on drugs, so why is it you say Abhisit has as much or even more blood on his hands than Thaksin? How can that be?

[bungalownights]

and how do you spell Karma ?

[whybother]

Abhisit and his master Suthep are bringing Thailand shame. The big whitewash is 93 demonstrators killed by army bullets and a security tzar telling the world that they were not shot by the military but that "they walked into the bullets". The international Criminal court or in a few decades the Thai courts will deal with either one and maybe also Thaksin time will tell. But Abhisit has as much or even more blood on his hands than Thaksin.

In Latin America we only see now military sponsored amnesty laws repelled and military commanders and prime ministers brought to justice. Not a great idea for a man in his 40's. Abhisit is simply a sore loser.

More than simply a sore loser, Abhisit is worried that he will be put behind bars for his alledged involvement in the deaths of 93 demonstrators. Not long now until Abhisit will be fugitive 2.0

WHEN did 93 demonstrators get shot?

If I remember correctly, there were a few civilians and army personnel killed by grenades fired by the red shirts. Of course, a few others could have been killed the red shirt's militia too.

[junglist]

tak bai massacre, ThakSin. Karma is calling you.

[hbullinger]

I must be getting something wrong here.

How can any government declare an amnesty for someone who was sentenced to go to prison for stealing money from the country by tax evasion. It is irrelevant whether the convicted person is or was a politician. Therefore the term "political crime" doesn't apply here. Theft is theft. The only legally acceptable way to avoid serving the prison sentence would be a court decision on an appeal in favour of the person sentenced by the courts.

As far as I am aware Thaksin did not appeal against his sentence and even if he had done so he would have to come back to Thailand before a court would hear his appeal.

Thailand is not a banana republic, although you begin to wonder when considering that a fugitive ex-PM installed his "cloned daughter"(his words) as the leader of the party which promises the 'political amnesty'. I further wonder whether he plans to replace the exising courts by a bunch of 'cloned' judges.

[lannarebirth]

Thought it was 91? Anyhow, the first killed were Army personnel from Thaksin's "Black Shirts". Video of red shirt protesters killing an Army driver in cold blood around also.

Edited June 9, 2011 by lannarebirth

[rixalex]

As for Thaksin's convictions. They were all adjudicated on by a military installed judiciary that were instructed to vilify him in an attempt to marginalise his overwhelming popularity, so are all null & void. It's all going to come out in the wash shortly after PT become the next government. There are going to be a lot of broken faces.

Military installed judiciary? OK, let's hear the names of these judges you speak of.

[Buchholz]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty

Nothing has ever been mentioned by Pheu Thai Party that the amnesty covers the Army.

It's just pie-in-the-sky speculation by the poster.

Additional unsubstantiated, pie-in-the-sky speculations....

The big whitewash is 93 demonstrators killed by army bullets

As for Thaksin's convictions. They were all adjudicated on by a military installed judiciary that were instructed to vilify him

[noahvail]

Some posters make ludicrous statements and when pressed for specifics, refuse to answer. If history is a guide, do not expect an informative reply.

[rixalex]

I been here since 2003 and I hope you are right we called it the land of smiles back then and it was. Let the Thais have their say and all of us listen and keep our non voting mouth shut!

Effectively, you are telling everyone here to stop expressing an opinion, having in the sentence just prior, shared your own.

[metisdead]

A post containing quoted content from Bangkok Post has been removed as well as the replies to that post.

31) All members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from bangkokpost.com or phuketwan inside topics on thaivisa.com. Posts containing quotes will be deleted from the forum. Links referring back to the sites are also not allowed and will be deleted.

[wolfmanjack]

If you repeatedly put yourself in harms way then don't be surprised when you get hurt. Any idiot knows that when you attack a line of people with guns you may get shot. Especially when you have a bunch of armed people running around in your midst.