473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yep...... a very solid endorsement of PT by the leader of the coup....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Scholars say that the 2007 constitution was pretty undemocratic in how it came about --- but they also say that it strengthens democracy in that it put the checks and balances on the executive branch back in place. Reasonable analysis imho. You said the word, scholars ! People who never had the courage to step in the real world. People who make your every day world, people who grow your food, people who cook it, people who build the house you live in, people who drive you around, real people, they all vote for Thaksin. Then you have the civil servants, scholars ... IMO they shouldn't have the right to vote. As their name says it so well, they are just servants. Ah --- Red shirt democracy is sounding more like the PAD proposal all the time .... --- I can say now that you fit in with the red version of democracy totally! (Our way is democratic and if you are against us you are against democracy! -- no dissent allowed! --- which does in fact mirror the final Thaksin led (directly) government in Thailand! If you would prefer ---- I say the 2007 constitution did not come about in a wholly democratic manner ---- I also say that it reinstated the checks and balances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 There is no doubt this endorsement is good for PT..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 There is no doubt this endorsement is good for PT..... All it says is that Sonthi is greedy to get in ANY government. It says not a thing about PTP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yep...... a very solid endorsement of PT by the leader of the coup....... General Sonthi Boonyaratglin, leader of the Matubhum party, said his party was prepared to join either the Democrat-led government or Pheu Thai-led government after the general election. It's not an endorsement of anything. All it shows what lengths some Thai politicians will go to to get their snout in the trough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 There is no doubt this endorsement is good for PT..... All it says is that Sonthi is greedy to get in ANY government. It says not a thing about PTP. Course it does, he ran them out with coup.........now he is prepared to support them.....it would appear he believes they are capable.......more so than before.....a man that is obviously capable of moving on and moving with the times.....unlike some....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Course it does, he ran them out with coup.........now he is prepared to support them.....it would appear he believes they are capable.......more so than before.....a man that is obviously capable of moving on and moving with the times.....unlike some....... So, he's saying the Democrats are capable too. He ran Thaksin out with the coup. He didn't run Yingluck out. I don't expect him to support any legislation that PTP put forward to whitewash Thaksin's crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbamboo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 With Thai politics you don't know whether to laugh or cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 There is no doubt this endorsement is good for PT..... All it says is that Sonthi is greedy to get in ANY government. It says not a thing about PTP. I know it isn't an endorsement ---- it could easily be seen as a 'threat' --- but it is likely just stating that he would rather have his party IN the government (Dem led or PTP led) more than he would want to be in the OPPOSITION. Then again he might be pushing PTP to reject him as they have other people offering .... It really may be a strange enough year to come down to Chuwit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini81 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Just to clarify the repeated misstatement Thaksin had been re-elected, but he, and he alone, dissolved parliament to have a snap election. That made him a Care Taker UNELECTED PM. His job then was to mind the government and run a successful election.The election was botched, his time as Care Taker PM expired. He went to the palace to be 'reconfirmed for a 2nd term as Caretaker PM'. Making large, hubristic statements on going, and total silence on returning. Next day he publicly announced he was stepping down as Care Taker PM. Effectively removing himself from the job and installing his Deputy PM AS acting PM. The guy publicly quit. By all appearances he was told he was not being re-instated and to submit his resignation for botching the election and dividing the nation gravely. And he than made the best of it by appearing to step down himself. One week later he announces 'unilaterally' he will take back the Prime Ministers job, 'Because the country needs him." He never returned to the palace to be reconfirmed as is required by the constitution at that time. It was discussed publicly that he was not a confirmed Prime Minister Of Thailand. He announced he would go to te UN in NYC to make a speech 'as Prime Minister of Thailand'. Many people of all levels of society agreed that this was inappropriate, since he was not even a confirmed Care Taker PM. He ignored this gfood advice, and the coup happened. At the time of the coup, Thaksin was NOT the "Elected Prime Minister Of Thailand" He was a pretender of outrageous ego, illegally stepping on the checks and balances of the Thai legal system. Any other statements pretending to be facts, such as: " the 2006 Coup that Deposed Prime MInister Thaksin Shinawatra ", or "...the legally elected prime minister ousted by a military coup...." are FACTUALLY INCORRECT, and should be ignored. He removed himself from being Elected PM with his own hand. No one else did anything but remove an illegal pretender to the job. that's what I recall. Others are truly adding fantasy as well as fiction to the fact that the 2nd time he was a legitmate PM when he wasn't! If people here actually vote for this schmuck's family dynasty members, i guess they'll get what they deserve. He did things quickly and more confidently than abhisit, and it seems like the uneducated and the country bumpkins recall, and are buying into the yingluk propaganda. Edited June 11, 2011 by gemini81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 ... Then you have the civil servants, scholars ... IMO they shouldn't have the right to vote. As their name says it so well, they are just servants. A true champion for Democracy. Is this the sort of "Democracy" you support and would like to see in Thailand? It reminds me of Pol Pot sending the educated (or whoever happened to wear glasses) to the killing fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Course it does, he ran them out with coup.........now he is prepared to support them.....it would appear he believes they are capable.......more so than before.....a man that is obviously capable of moving on and moving with the times.....unlike some....... So, he's saying the Democrats are capable too. He ran Thaksin out with the coup. He didn't run Yingluck out. I don't expect him to support any legislation that PTP put forward to whitewash Thaksin's crimes. You really want to know what he is saying, ask him not me.........but I would think your assumption is good..... Are you saying PTP are as good as elected.......otherwise I doubt he would have the opportunity "to support any legislation that PTP put forward"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) They started up less than 6 months after. Thank you for making this point. The "reds" stood up in reaction of a military coup. We agree here. Actually, I think we agree on precise little. The Red Shirts were just doing the bidding of their financier, Thaksin. They were supporting the legally elected prime minister ousted by a military coup. Put it the way you want, facts are facts : no coup, no red shirts. First came the yellow shirts, backed by people who couldn't accept democracy. Then the coup. Then, as a reaction, the red shirts. You have to accept facts. The people who started all that mayhem are people with little respect for democracy. People can vote for whoever they want as long as it is for the controlling elite. If they don't, then we have a problem ... The problem is not vote buying, the problem is free information. Why do you think the junta is closing local radios and internet access ? You post a lot, a lot of your stuff comes from different sources on the internet. Would it be fair if I cut your internet sources? That's what happen to people who oppose this government. Is it fair ? You're right that I obtain news from a wide variety of sources. To date, I've not had problem accessing any of them. It seems that most of the sites that have been blocked were for reasons other than the news, eg. LM and porn. As for the radio stations, I would suggest they get legal by obtaining the proper licenses so that they won't interfere with the reception of those stations that are legal and have obtained the proper license. As for the red and yellow shirts, the Reds were the first group to turn violent. That's pretty much where I draw the line as the paramount issue for me is if a group that is protesting is violent or non-violent. The reds far surpass the yellows in that regard. btw, no sure if you are unaware, but the junta ended years ago. . Edited June 11, 2011 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 You really want to know what he is saying, ask him not me.........but I would think your assumption is good..... Are you saying PTP are as good as elected.......otherwise I doubt he would have the opportunity "to support any legislation that PTP put forward"....... You're calling it an endorsement for PTP. Based on that, it must be an endorsement for the Democrats too. Where did I suggest that the PTP are as good as elected. IF PTP get into government, I doubt he would support their legislation for Thaksin. If they don't get elected, he won't be supporting any legislation for Thaksin. Based on the PPP's efforts, the PTP will only be trying to put forward one piece of legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 You really want to know what he is saying, ask him not me.........but I would think your assumption is good..... Are you saying PTP are as good as elected.......otherwise I doubt he would have the opportunity "to support any legislation that PTP put forward"....... You're calling it an endorsement for PTP. Based on that, it must be an endorsement for the Democrats too. Where did I suggest that the PTP are as good as elected. IF PTP get into government, I doubt he would support their legislation for Thaksin. If they don't get elected, he won't be supporting any legislation for Thaksin. Based on the PPP's efforts, the PTP will only be trying to put forward one piece of legislation. He didn't out the Democrats in coup........therefore the relationship is clearly different........you can't see that? There is no reason why he would not support the Democrats......and clearly now he has underlined the fact that he sees no reason not to support PTP......that is quite an endorsement.......I think...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yep...... a very solid endorsement of PT by the leader of the coup....... did you read the same OP every one else did??? his party was prepared to join either the Democrat-led government or Pheu Thai-led government after the general election. and Sonthi cited three conditions to join the Pheu Thai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yep...... a very solid endorsement of PT by the leader of the coup....... did you read the same OP every one else did??? his party was prepared to join either the Democrat-led government or Pheu Thai-led government after the general election. and Sonthi cited three conditions to join the Pheu Thai There's a reason I so liberally use the ignore function ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Just to clarify the repeated misstatement Thaksin had been re-elected, but he, and he alone, dissolved parliament to have a snap election. That made him a Care Taker UNELECTED PM. His job then was to mind the government and run a successful election.The election was botched, his time as Care Taker PM expired. He went to the palace to be 'reconfirmed for a 2nd term as Caretaker PM'. Making large, hubristic statements on going, and total silence on returning. Next day he publicly announced he was stepping down as Care Taker PM. Effectively removing himself from the job and installing his Deputy PM AS acting PM. The guy publicly quit. By all appearances he was told he was not being re-instated and to submit his resignation for botching the election and dividing the nation gravely. And he than made the best of it by appearing to step down himself. One week later he announces 'unilaterally' he will take back the Prime Ministers job, 'Because the country needs him." He never returned to the palace to be reconfirmed as is required by the constitution at that time. It was discussed publicly that he was not a confirmed Prime Minister Of Thailand. He announced he would go to te UN in NYC to make a speech 'as Prime Minister of Thailand'. Many people of all levels of society agreed that this was inappropriate, since he was not even a confirmed Care Taker PM. He ignored this gfood advice, and the coup happened. At the time of the coup, Thaksin was NOT the "Elected Prime Minister Of Thailand" He was a pretender of outrageous ego, illegally stepping on the checks and balances of the Thai legal system. Any other statements pretending to be facts, such as: " the 2006 Coup that Deposed Prime MInister Thaksin Shinawatra ", or "...the legally elected prime minister ousted by a military coup...." are FACTUALLY INCORRECT, and should be ignored. He removed himself from being Elected PM with his own hand. No one else did anything but remove an illegal pretender to the job. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 He didn't out the Democrats in coup........therefore the relationship is clearly different........you can't see that? There is no reason why he would not support the Democrats......and clearly now he has underlined the fact that he sees no reason not to support PTP......that is quite an endorsement.......I think...... There is no reason why he wouldn't sell his soul to be part of the government. This is actually good for the Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yep...... a very solid endorsement of PT by the leader of the coup....... did you read the same OP every one else did??? his party was prepared to join either the Democrat-led government or Pheu Thai-led government after the general election. and Sonthi cited three conditions to join the Pheu Thai For reasoned explanation please read post #74........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesse89 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 By all appearances he was told he was not being re-instated and to submit his resignation for botching the election and dividing the nation gravely. And he than made the best of it by appearing to step down himself. Just to clarify, The Thai general elections of 2006 were "botched", due to the choice of the opposition parties to refrain from running in the election not through any direct action by Thaksin. Thailand was certainly divided over Thaksin's rule, however, it was the strategic choice of the Democrats, the Mahachon Party and Chat Thai to boycott the election that led to the political uncertainty in the election's aftermath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 He didn't out the Democrats in coup........therefore the relationship is clearly different........you can't see that? There is no reason why he would not support the Democrats......and clearly now he has underlined the fact that he sees no reason not to support PTP......that is quite an endorsement.......I think...... There is no reason why he wouldn't sell his soul to be part of the government. This is actually good for the Democrats. This is the man who masterminded the coup......who according to some, on this forum, saved the country from a terrible fate........you cannot be seriously questioning his judgement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Just to clarify the repeated misstatement Thaksin had been re-elected, but he, and he alone, dissolved parliament to have a snap election. That made him a Care Taker UNELECTED PM. His job then was to mind the government and run a successful election.The election was botched, his time as Care Taker PM expired. He went to the palace to be 'reconfirmed for a 2nd term as Caretaker PM'. Making large, hubristic statements on going, and total silence on returning. Next day he publicly announced he was stepping down as Care Taker PM. Effectively removing himself from the job and installing his Deputy PM AS acting PM. The guy publicly quit. By all appearances he was told he was not being re-instated and to submit his resignation for botching the election and dividing the nation gravely. And he than made the best of it by appearing to step down himself. One week later he announces 'unilaterally' he will take back the Prime Ministers job, 'Because the country needs him." He never returned to the palace to be reconfirmed as is required by the constitution at that time. It was discussed publicly that he was not a confirmed Prime Minister Of Thailand. He announced he would go to te UN in NYC to make a speech 'as Prime Minister of Thailand'. Many people of all levels of society agreed that this was inappropriate, since he was not even a confirmed Care Taker PM. He ignored this gfood advice, and the coup happened. At the time of the coup, Thaksin was NOT the "Elected Prime Minister Of Thailand" He was a pretender of outrageous ego, illegally stepping on the checks and balances of the Thai legal system. Any other statements pretending to be facts, such as: " the 2006 Coup that Deposed Prime MInister Thaksin Shinawatra ", or "...the legally elected prime minister ousted by a military coup...." are FACTUALLY INCORRECT, and should be ignored. He removed himself from being Elected PM with his own hand. No one else did anything but remove an illegal pretender to the job. that's what I recall. Others are truly adding fantasy as well as fiction to the fact that the 2nd time he was a legitmate PM when he wasn't! If people here actually vote for this schmuck's family dynasty members, i guess they'll get what they deserve. He did things quickly and more confidently than abhisit, and it seems like the uneducated and the country bumpkins recall, and are buying into the yingluk propaganda. A bit of extra clarity sort of. http://www.nationmul...es_30001016.php [thenation]April 5 2006[/thenation Sondhi warned, however, that the protest might continue if the government continued to intimidate the media and curb people's rights to information, or if Thaksin tried to cling to power after this month. We know Thaksin did NOTHING of the sort. Since he was clearly trying to run the show and Be PM of Thailand the following September by addressing the UN. I also note he was trying to play the reconciliation card then, very hard.... but clearly only on his terms. Edited June 11, 2011 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 This is the man who masterminded the coup......who according to some, on this forum, saved the country from a terrible fate........you cannot be seriously questioning his judgement? Given that he led the coup to oust Thaksin, and is now prepared to support Thaksin's puppet party ... YES, of course I'm questioning his judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 By all appearances he was told he was not being re-instated and to submit his resignation for botching the election and dividing the nation gravely. And he than made the best of it by appearing to step down himself. Just to clarify, The Thai general elections of 2006 were "botched", due to the choice of the opposition parties to refrain from running in the election not through any direct action by Thaksin. Thailand was certainly divided over Thaksin's rule, however, it was the strategic choice of the Democrats, the Mahachon Party and Chat Thai to boycott the election that led to the political uncertainty in the election's aftermath. I would suggest that the "political uncertainty" was already there --- the Dem's very strategic decision to not play in a rigged game was brilliant but painful. It did lead to a constitutional crisis in that the results of failed elections and by-elections were not covered by the constitution. The resulting extra-constitutional caretaker government status was further damaged when Thaksin quit and then stepped back into the caretaker PM slot ... The country was split then --- it is split now and Thaksin is the wedge causing the split. Many things need to change in Thailand, one being the oath of office for the military. The next is political reform including an amnesty --- NOT an amnesty for the violence and politics since the coup. Simply an amnesty on all past corruption ---- and that amnesty needs to be accompanied by new mandatory sentencing laws that give a 20 year non-commutable prison sentence for any government employee caught in corruption --- and a 20 year non-commutable prison sentence for any citizen caught trying to corrupt a state official. (This should apply from street-sweepers to Prime Ministers!) The sting operations alone should get rid of the people in the supporting roles around all of the regional power families --- in effect isolating them from the ability to peddle influence in the future. (I am assuming the Newins and Sutheps and S'nohs are all smart enough not to do the dirty work themselves so won't get caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 This is the man who masterminded the coup......who according to some, on this forum, saved the country from a terrible fate........you cannot be seriously questioning his judgement? Given that he led the coup to oust Thaksin, and is now prepared to support Thaksin's puppet party ... YES, of course I'm questioning his judgment. Rather than trying to embrace his thinking, that with his support, PTP could well provide a way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yep...... a very solid endorsement of PT by the leader of the coup....... did you read the same OP every one else did??? his party was prepared to join either the Democrat-led government or Pheu Thai-led government after the general election. and Sonthi cited three conditions to join the Pheu Thai There's a reason I so liberally use the ignore function ---- ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 This is the man who masterminded the coup......who according to some, on this forum, saved the country from a terrible fate........you cannot be seriously questioning his judgement? Given that he led the coup to oust Thaksin, and is now prepared to support Thaksin's puppet party ... YES, of course I'm questioning his judgment. Rather than trying to embrace his thinking, that with his support, PTP could well provide a way forward. As long as PTP don't try to whitewash Thaksin's crimes, they *could* provide a way forward. If they try to whitewash Thaksin's crimes, all they will be doing is going backwards. Given who their boss is, I'm guessing that they'll pick the backwards way. And I don't think Sonthi will back them to do that. Given he'll only get a couple of seats, it's probably not going to make much difference. As I said before, I think this is good for the Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) By all appearances he was told he was not being re-instated and to submit his resignation for botching the election and dividing the nation gravely. And he than made the best of it by appearing to step down himself. Just to clarify, The Thai general elections of 2006 were "botched", due to the choice of the opposition parties to refrain from running in the election not through any direct action by Thaksin. Thailand was certainly divided over Thaksin's rule, however, it was the strategic choice of the Democrats, the Mahachon Party and Chat Thai to boycott the election that led to the political uncertainty in the election's aftermath. Actually again NOT SO. The Dems refused to run in the fixed snap election. This required either: a ) TRT candidates to win 20% outright otherwise a by-election would be called. or b ) small parties had to run against them and then the 20% rule didn't come into effect. In most constituencies the smaller paerties did not run, and some TRT candidates were too fearful of not reaching 20%, that an large scale organized effort to bribe, suborn, or fake smaller parties as shills was attempted by members of the TRT leadership. They got caught out in several instances which is what lead to the TRT party being banned under the 1997 constitution. Some others also got caught trying tit for tat charges against the Dems for allegedly bribing smaller parties NOT to run, this was never proved and the Dems continued. The election was botched by the Election Commission, that had been suborned, and they ALL went to jail for Malfeasance In Office. The combination of Thaksin as caretaker not properly seeing the election run and the time it took to remove and then replace the EC members heading toward jail, cause his caretaker status to expire. By the time and NEW EC had an election on the tracks again Thaksin was well past his expiry as caretaker, and under intense pressure to resign, and quite visibly acting irrationally in response to that pressure. Similarly to when he was caught lying on international TV during the 2008 Songkran attempted insurrection he lead. Edited June 11, 2011 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow1red1 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 There were no Red shirts before the coup good point. look at my biline, expect to see Thaksin, Sondhi, Sonthi all a dancing hand in hand how did I KNOW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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