Ex-Premier Thaksin Return To Thailand Not Possible: Deputy PM Suthep

[OzMick]

The coffee is fresh and Thaksin is not doing anything to be altruistic,

to believe otherwise is fantasy land.

Democracy has never been installed to create consumerism,

regardless of companies will take an opportunity to profit where they can.

Laos was a tragedy, but was intended to prevent another exported Maoist Cultural Revolution, which as certainly not proved a success in China. I was not for the war by the way, I just understand the why aprt of it. Oh my, think of the trade that war has brought the USA from Laos... Zip.

I find it curious you have no problem profiting from pyramid schemes,

but decry Democracy as failed, but the shoot guys running pyramid schemes in China....

Somethings missing in your general outlook.

Perhaps time for a self induced internal mental keel hauling.

Why would you be curious about my having no problem with pyramid schemes. It is was a completely legitimate investment that I was fortunate to have inside information about. Nothing illegal about it. I didn't live in China so I don't know what that has to do with anything. You might also be interested in some of the other dodgy things I did on behalf of my company when I was an executive. All perfectly "legal" just like the derivatives fiasco. The result is that I get to live a comfortable life without a worry in the world.

Since we're being "curious" how did you make your money? Teaching? Because if you have ever actually worked in business these things wouldn't come as such a big surprise.

You still don't get it. It doesn't matter what you think or I think of some academic from some top university thinks. The Thai people think that he is looking out for them. They are accustomed to someone looking out for them and they have been trusting this democratic system to produce results that benefit them. We're going back to the village for the election. Each and everyone of my wifes family are voting red. What they see is the medical program that was put into effect by Thaksin, that benefits them. They had a huge drug problem in their village before Thaksin started killing them and the problem went away over night. They also remember Thaksin trying some things to keep the price of rice higher. My wifes grandparents collect old age pensions from the government that THEY believe came from Thaksin. They don't see anything of benefit from the Oxford guy, they haven't even seen him until the election comes around. Their not stupid. They haven't been lulled into an overweight stupor like those in the west, they're asking "where's the beef" for me?

You need to check your historical facts and maybe have a few more cups of coffee. I guess I shouldn't expect a cloistered saint to understand the world. You may fall for the propaganda that you have been fed, but I chose to draw my own objective conclusions using my own critical thinking skills as opposed to believing everything I hear.

" My wifes grandparents collect old age pensions from the government that THEY believe came from Thaksin.......... Their not stupid."

Somebody must be ......the pension was brought in by the Abhisit govt.

The B30 medical scheme was brought in Thaksin, but not funded. It is now free, with a huge increase in funding.

"........Thaksin trying some things to keep the price of rice higher." Farmers organisations think that 60% of the new PTP scheme will go to millers.

"........ pyramid schemes. It is was a completely legitimate investment that I was fortunate to have inside information about." If only the courts thought the same way..............

"Each and everyone of my wifes family are voting red.........but I chose to draw my own objective conclusions using my own critical thinking skills as opposed to believing everything I hear." Uh-huh, yep, sure you do. Which leads you believe Thailand needs an megalomanic kleptomaniac as a dictator. Right.

[rubl]

Pyramid schemes are not illegal when they are presented as a legitimate business. What do you think Tupperware was?

I would also like to know who these "greatest minds" are, just give us a few. You made the comment you shouldn't have to do any research at all.

Yes, Thaksin is a criminal as defined by his opponents. So what?

If you have a point. Why don't you make it?

My apologies for getting a bit off topic with pyramid schemes:

Wiki says

"A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment, services or ideals, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme or training them to take part, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public. Pyramid schemes are a form of fraud."

The article also says it's illegal in Thailand, China amongst others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

This suggests that the 'Tupperware' business is not a pyramid scheme. A pyramid scheme presented as a legitimate business would indicate criminal intention.

[animatic]

The coffee is fresh and Thaksin is not doing anything to be altruistic,

to believe otherwise is fantasy land.

Democracy has never been installed to create consumerism,

regardless of companies will take an opportunity to profit where they can.

Laos was a tragedy, but was intended to prevent another exported Maoist Cultural Revolution, which as certainly not proved a success in China. I was not for the war by the way, I just understand the why aprt of it. Oh my, think of the trade that war has brought the USA from Laos... Zip.

I find it curious you have no problem profiting from pyramid schemes,

but decry Democracy as failed, but the shoot guys running pyramid schemes in China....

Somethings missing in your general outlook.

Perhaps time for a self induced internal mental keel hauling.

Why would you be curious about my having no problem with pyramid schemes. It is was a completely legitimate investment that I was fortunate to have inside information about. Nothing illegal about it. I didn't live in China so I don't know what that has to do with anything. You might also be interested in some of the other dodgy things I did on behalf of my company when I was an executive. All perfectly "legal" just like the derivatives fiasco. The result is that I get to live a comfortable life without a worry in the world.

Since we're being "curious" how did you make your money? Teaching? Because if you have ever actually worked in business these things wouldn't come as such a big surprise.

You still don't get it. It doesn't matter what you think or I think of some academic from some top university thinks. The Thai people think that he is looking out for them. They are accustomed to someone looking out for them and they have been trusting this democratic system to produce results that benefit them. We're going back to the village for the election. Each and everyone of my wifes family are voting red. What they see is the medical program that was put into effect by Thaksin, that benefits them. They had a huge drug problem in their village before Thaksin started killing them and the problem went away over night. They also remember Thaksin trying some things to keep the price of rice higher. My wifes grandparents collect old age pensions from the government that THEY believe came from Thaksin. They don't see anything of benefit from the Oxford guy, they haven't even seen him until the election comes around. Their not stupid. They haven't been lulled into an overweight stupor like those in the west, they're asking "where's the beef" for me?

You need to check your historical facts and maybe have a few more cups of coffee. I guess I shouldn't expect a cloistered saint to understand the world. You may fall for the propaganda that you have been fed, but I chose to draw my own objective conclusions using my own critical thinking skills as opposed to believing everything I hear.

Ponzi was prosecuted for a reason.

Add what rubi says above.

Unsustainable is the basic problem.

There is certainly a difference between a pyramid scheme, AKA Ponzi and multi-level marketing which is what Ponzi schemes were prosecuted into necessarily becoming. Some are sustainable as long as the continue to expand. But buy into a saturated market and you are still shit out a luck.

Edited June 18, 2011 by animatic

[OzMick]

Even if he comes back in some form or another the people are not just going to breath a sigh of relief, their going to expect results and I have no doubt that if they don't get them they will continue to seek them by whatever means they chose.

I can't say with any certainty that Thaksin will fix everything, but he will buy some breathing room and he is probably the best guy to "convince" the real power in Thailand that they need to "share the wealth." I'm a poker player not an intellectual. I look at the odds and the best odds for stability is the reds getting a shot. Conveniently it is also the most likely outcome.

I think that many of you are basing your views on what you have been taught to think; that democracy is good, socialism is bad, etc. If you think objectively you must see that democracy is a failing social system because it cannot react fast enough to the changing times.

" I'm a poker player not an intellectual............... democracy is a failing social system............"

The greatest minds of the last 20 centuries have decided that democracy, while not perfect, is the best system devised so far, but we should take your word for it that it's stuffed. And as

"The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes............" I gather that you're not even much of a poker player. You do seem to have an affection for criminals though.

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

I actually wrote "of the last 200 centuries." Aristotle, Lincoln, Churchill as a spread - but I'm sure you can google too. I personally like Denis Diderot's bon mot, but not on this forum.

Try "man will never be free......"

[animatic]

Even if he comes back in some form or another the people are not just going to breath a sigh of relief, their going to expect results and I have no doubt that if they don't get them they will continue to seek them by whatever means they chose.

I can't say with any certainty that Thaksin will fix everything, but he will buy some breathing room and he is probably the best guy to "convince" the real power in Thailand that they need to "share the wealth." I'm a poker player not an intellectual. I look at the odds and the best odds for stability is the reds getting a shot. Conveniently it is also the most likely outcome.

I think that many of you are basing your views on what you have been taught to think; that democracy is good, socialism is bad, etc. If you think objectively you must see that democracy is a failing social system because it cannot react fast enough to the changing times.

This line caught my attention since it refers to Thaksin (who is wealthy) and the 'real power" in Thailand (the elite and on up the food chain, who are even wealthier).

Great Britain has had a monarchy (am, I allowed to refer to this in a historical context?) for over a thousand years and many of the monarchs were totally corrupt and in the 1000 years since, the landed gentry and other wealthy individuals have controlled much of the business & political scene.

Vast tracts of land were given, and dukedoms and earldoms created, for service to the crown and country, not always of the finest moral kind. Some of the wealthiest aristocrats in England today owe their wealth to people, in the past,of Thaksin's ilk

The Americans had a euphemism "robber barons". Corrupt industrialists. Thaksin would be proud to be counted in their company.

However when, or rather if ,he does return, it remains to be seen just how long the Red Carpet will be.

The so called elites in Thailand will be divided like never before.

Robber Baron . . .

Fits Thaksin to a T,

[Britannia]

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

Pyramid schemes are illegal. Thaksin is a criminal.

You can do your own research on democracy

Rather an emotional reaction, the man talks a lot of sense, everybody can talk but very few can listen, perhaps we should do away with ears, they are never used, The man comments his statements are from his own observations, that is commendable as most people get their opinions second hand.

The whole insurance business, banking business communication business is immoral, but legal, why are imoral things legal, simply because imoral people make the laws, Does that make it right because its legal? Further I have had my own interpretation of democracy for a long time: My opinion but only my opinion. Democracy is where we are all freely allowe to vote for whoever we want to dictate to us for the next period 4 - 5 years

Change yourself do not try to change others

[samurai]

You still don't get it. It doesn't matter what you think or I think of some academic from some top university thinks. The Thai people think that he is looking out for them. They are accustomed to someone looking out for them and they have been trusting this democratic system to produce results that benefit them. We're going back to the village for the election. Each and everyone of my wifes family are voting red. What they see is the medical program that was put into effect by Thaksin, that benefits them. They had a huge drug problem in their village before Thaksin started killing them and the problem went away over night. They also remember Thaksin trying some things to keep the price of rice higher. My wifes grandparents collect old age pensions from the government that THEY believe came from Thaksin. They don't see anything of benefit from the Oxford guy, they haven't even seen him until the election comes around. Their not stupid. They haven't been lulled into an overweight stupor like those in the west, they're asking "where's the beef" for me?

You need to check your historical facts and maybe have a few more cups of coffee. I guess I shouldn't expect a cloistered saint to understand the world. You may fall for the propaganda that you have been fed, but I chose to draw my own objective conclusions using my own critical thinking skills as opposed to believing everything I hear.

Exactly, that is the point.

[animatic]

Even if he comes back in some form or another the people are not just going to breath a sigh of relief, their going to expect results and I have no doubt that if they don't get them they will continue to seek them by whatever means they chose.

I can't say with any certainty that Thaksin will fix everything, but he will buy some breathing room and he is probably the best guy to "convince" the real power in Thailand that they need to "share the wealth." I'm a poker player not an intellectual. I look at the odds and the best odds for stability is the reds getting a shot. Conveniently it is also the most likely outcome.

I think that many of you are basing your views on what you have been taught to think; that democracy is good, socialism is bad, etc. If you think objectively you must see that democracy is a failing social system because it cannot react fast enough to the changing times.

" I'm a poker player not an intellectual............... democracy is a failing social system............"

The greatest minds of the last 20 centuries have decided that democracy, while not perfect, is the best system devised so far, but we should take your word for it that it's stuffed. And as

"The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes............" I gather that you're not even much of a poker player. You do seem to have an affection for criminals though.

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

I actually wrote "of the last 200 centuries." Aristotle, Lincoln, Churchill as a spread - but I'm sure you can google too. I personally like Denis Diderot's bon mot, but not on this forum.

Try "man will never be free......"

I used to work on rue Diderot HA!

Evil always turns up in this world through some genius or other. Denis Diderot

No man has received from nature the right to give orders to others. Freedom is a gift from heaven, and every individual of the same species has the right to enjoy it as soon as he is in enjoyment of his reason. Denis Diderot

For the voters:

Watch out for the fellow who talks about putting things in order! Denis Diderot

For P. Yingluck:

We are far more liable to catch the vices than the virtues of our associates. Denis Diderot

For that Kuhn T.

Power acquired by violence is only a usurpation,

and lasts only as long as the force of him who commands

prevails over that of those who obey. Denis Diderot

Disturbances in society are never more fearful than

when those who are stirring up the trouble can

use the pretext of religion to mask their true designs. Denis Diderot

For those thinking to Vote Red.....

From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step.

[Britannia]

Even if he comes back in some form or another the people are not just going to breath a sigh of relief, their going to expect results and I have no doubt that if they don't get them they will continue to seek them by whatever means they chose.

I can't say with any certainty that Thaksin will fix everything, but he will buy some breathing room and he is probably the best guy to "convince" the real power in Thailand that they need to "share the wealth." I'm a poker player not an intellectual. I look at the odds and the best odds for stability is the reds getting a shot. Conveniently it is also the most likely outcome.

I think that many of you are basing your views on what you have been taught to think; that democracy is good, socialism is bad, etc. If you think objectively you must see that democracy is a failing social system because it cannot react fast enough to the changing times.

" I'm a poker player not an intellectual............... democracy is a failing social system............"

The greatest minds of the last 20 centuries have decided that democracy, while not perfect, is the best system devised so far, but we should take your word for it that it's stuffed. And as

"The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes............" I gather that you're not even much of a poker player. You do seem to have an affection for criminals though.

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

I actually wrote "of the last 200 centuries." Aristotle, Lincoln, Churchill as a spread - but I'm sure you can google too. I personally like Denis Diderot's bon mot, but not on this forum.

Try "man will never be free......"

Thank for your short list of names Churchill and Lincoln are differnt from the norm, maybe they were great minds because could be revered for their action and success rather than their philosophy.

I wonder if they would have been considered great minds if they had lost, Well Aristotle who could doubt. but plato his teacher never believed in a democracy has it was democracy that had killed his teacher socreties

Great minds come from men of peace without care of wealth, see if you can think of some

[trisailer]

" My wifes grandparents collect old age pensions from the government that THEY believe came from Thaksin.......... Their not stupid."

Somebody must be ......the pension was brought in by the Abhisit govt.

The B30 medical scheme was brought in Thaksin, but not funded. It is now free, with a huge increase in funding.

"........Thaksin trying some things to keep the price of rice higher." Farmers organisations think that 60% of the new PTP scheme will go to millers.

"........ pyramid schemes. It is was a completely legitimate investment that I was fortunate to have inside information about." If only the courts thought the same way..............

"Each and everyone of my wifes family are voting red.........but I chose to draw my own objective conclusions using my own critical thinking skills as opposed to believing everything I hear." Uh-huh, yep, sure you do. Which leads you believe Thailand needs an megalomanic kleptomaniac as a dictator. Right.

So, you can cut and paste. You missed the part where I said that people vote on what THEY believe not necessarly the true facts. That's obvious to everyone but you.

41% of Americans think that Iraq was involved in the 911 attack even after bush said otherwise, 20% believe that Obama is a muslim, you get the picture. Are American's stupid based on these facts?

I also said that It dosen't matter to me who they vote for. I never made any claim to understand what the issues are in the way I would if I were voting. Check your reading comprehension skills.

The simple fact is that it looks like his sister is going to win which is probably a good thing for the stability of the county. Thailand does things it's own way. After she wins he will likely return and who knows maybe even become PM again. Why would I care? Why does any farang care?

[notime]

Tough choice in the coming elections! It's like choosing between two bad fish at a market: one fish has rotten body but a good head (Abhisit) and another good body but a rotten head (Thaksin). What is it going to be?

[sawadeeken]

I should think that it would be a powerful election persuasion for the present government to show the Taksin Family as the cheats that they are, by interviewing all the people who owned land where the new airport is and sold that land for a small price to the Taksins, at a time when only 'privileged' political individuals knew that the airport would aquire the land. I would like 'all the Thai people' to know the true feelings of those people who could have made good money for their land, but instead took meager amounts for it since they never knew the impending value --- but 'privileged' others did know the value and the Greedy ^#$#)*&^% (Taksins) took advantage of the situation. Wouldn't it be interesting to hear their opinions (Those who sold their land so cheaply) NOW??????????

[Buchholz]

Every now and then I ask myself, what kind of person could possibly support Thaksin...

Suit yourself. The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes run by a "friend"...

...so far I haven't been impressed by the moral fiber of his supporters.

Wholeheartedly agree.

It provided a very revealing insight.

[trisailer]

Every now and then I ask myself, what kind of person could possibly support Thaksin...

Suit yourself. The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes run by a "friend"...

...so far I haven't been impressed by the moral fiber of his supporters.

Wholeheartedly agree.

It provided a very revealing insight.

Proved what? That you can cut and paste peoples comments out of context. Please share with us your revealing insight. Is this the guilt by association strawman argument?

It's late, I understand.

[jdinasia]

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

Pyramid schemes are illegal. Thaksin is a criminal.

You can do your own research on democracy

Rather an emotional reaction, the man talks a lot of sense, everybody can talk but very few can listen, perhaps we should do away with ears, they are never used, The man comments his statements are from his own observations, that is commendable as most people get their opinions second hand.

The whole insurance business, banking business communication business is immoral, but legal, why are imoral things legal, simply because imoral people make the laws, Does that make it right because its legal? Further I have had my own interpretation of democracy for a long time: My opinion but only my opinion. Democracy is where we are all freely allowe to vote for whoever we want to dictate to us for the next period 4 - 5 years

Change yourself do not try to change others

No emotion in my reaction. Pyramid schemes are illegal. Thaksin is a criminal (convicted.)

I don't care what your personal opinion is on democracy as it isn't relevant. I don't care about your opinion of banking or insurance is, simply because, again it is not relevant. Your statement starting "The man..." is missing any referent.

(and yes I read trisailor's post referred to above ... it explains a lot.

[hellodolly]

President Ford pardoned Nixon, there must be some sort of mechanism for the same thing to happen in Thailand.

when a President leaves office it is the accepted practice for him to issue pardons.

Thaksin does not want a pardon that would require him to admit he is a criminal. Not going to happen.

How do you figure if the US does it there must be a system for Thailand to do it.

The US invades countries on different continents militarily is there a system for Thailand to do it.

Look out Mexico Thailand has a system

Edited June 18, 2011 by hellodolly

[OzMick]

" My wifes grandparents collect old age pensions from the government that THEY believe came from Thaksin.......... Their not stupid."

Somebody must be ......the pension was brought in by the Abhisit govt.

The B30 medical scheme was brought in Thaksin, but not funded. It is now free, with a huge increase in funding.

"........Thaksin trying some things to keep the price of rice higher." Farmers organisations think that 60% of the new PTP scheme will go to millers.

"........ pyramid schemes. It is was a completely legitimate investment that I was fortunate to have inside information about." If only the courts thought the same way..............

"Each and everyone of my wifes family are voting red.........but I chose to draw my own objective conclusions using my own critical thinking skills as opposed to believing everything I hear." Uh-huh, yep, sure you do. Which leads you believe Thailand needs an megalomanic kleptomaniac as a dictator. Right.

So, you can cut and paste. You missed the part where I said that people vote on what THEY believe not necessarly the true facts. That's obvious to everyone but you.

41% of Americans think that Iraq was involved in the 911 attack even after bush said otherwise, 20% believe that Obama is a muslim, you get the picture. Are American's stupid based on these facts?

I also said that It dosen't matter to me who they vote for. I never made any claim to understand what the issues are in the way I would if I were voting. Check your reading comprehension skills.

The simple fact is that it looks like his sister is going to win which is probably a good thing for the stability of the county. Thailand does things it's own way. After she wins he will likely return and who knows maybe even become PM again. Why would I care? Why does any farang care?

No I ididn't miss that part, I was was contesting the "their (sic) not stupid."

Are americans stupid for believing idiocy - up to you. But his sister winning being a good thing for the stability of the county is lunatic. She is puppet-string bound to push for amnesty for her criminal brother, which IMHO will trigger another coup, and will seriously affect tourism AND my income stream. Yes, I CARE!

[OzMick]

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

I actually wrote "of the last 200 centuries." Aristotle, Lincoln, Churchill as a spread - but I'm sure you can google too. I personally like Denis Diderot's bon mot, but not on this forum.

Try "man will never be free......"

Thank for your short list of names Churchill and Lincoln are differnt from the norm, maybe they were great minds because could be revered for their action and success rather than their philosophy.

I wonder if they would have been considered great minds if they had lost, Well Aristotle who could doubt. but plato his teacher never believed in a democracy has it was democracy that had killed his teacher socreties

Great minds come from men of peace without care of wealth, see if you can think of some

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.

Abraham Lincoln

Personally, I quite admire his philosophy.

[Bkkorupcountry]

Why is it that some foreigners, farang or otherwise, who are not even eligible to vote, are so passionate in either their attack or defence of various politicians? At the end of the day, as one poster commented, democracy is where we are all freely allowed to vote, whether it will proved right or wrong.

A general question: would you vote for someone who would benefit the country but is detrimental to you personally, or would you vote for someone who would benefit you personally but detrimental to the country?

[Tokay]

Interesting comment coming from the guy who said the protesters were not shot by the military, rather they walked into their bullets.

Thaksin will be back sooner or later, and that's simply the face pie the current administration is going to have to eat.

[obi1970]

Why is it that some foreigners, farang or otherwise, who are not even eligible to vote, are so passionate in either their attack or defence of various politicians? At the end of the day, as one poster commented, democracy is where we are all freely allowed to vote, whether it will proved right or wrong.

A general question: would you vote for someone who would benefit the country but is detrimental to you personally, or would you vote for someone who would benefit you personally but detrimental to the country?

Its not because we are farangs that we dont care about what happen to Thailand , like it our not its our country 2 we live here we have family and children here , spend most of our life here , we just cant vote but still we love this country and hate that it when bad things happen 2 it , with thaksin return will be only be good for family shinawatra . they just will start to fill there pockets again

And for your question yes people should vote for the best of the country and not for personel intrest , people need to look @ themself and should realise that only with improving the country you can improve yourself (omg i have become a communist )

[zthyadat]

What ??!!!

He's only facing 2 years of jail and he is in exile for that ??

I know and have heard all about the conditions of Thai Jails, but surely he can do his 2 years and move on in his life from there.

I wouldn't be on the run from my home country for a piddly 2 years... I could understand people facing life sentences, and otherwise lengthy jail sentences.

Also I think he might come out better (more popular? greater support?) with his followers -- as a man who took his punishment, not run away from it.

Real sad all this for only 2 years, if thats all it is.

Not in this country, matey... going to jail for even a day is a huge loss of face. It particularly shows that you aren't omniscient and above the law - which for a guy like Thaksin, is unacceptable. Think of it as Thailand's version of principles.

[Rinrada]

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said the fugitive billionaire, who controls the opposition Puea Thai Party from his Dubai mansion, can return to Thailand only if he agreed to serve a two-year jail sentence for corruption.

....this is from a guy whos only call to fame was running a gang of thugs in Patti.. and shortly may be signing on as a new client of the local Prat-u-Nam Job Centre plus. ...could be worse i supose....exiled to Dubai

[Britannia]

Thaksin has the support of the masses, regardless if they are blind or not, they the poor are the masses and they the poor are looking for someone to guide them out of that poverty, to say they are not educated and should not vote (have opinion) is Arrogrance.

Taksin take off your shoes, donate or give up your money, use all your intellect, wisdom and cunning, and walk among those that support you, do all the things that you have ability to do, guide everyone of Thasiland without harm or condemnation to anyone or any group, and you will be immortalized in Thailand. .Look at all the money you have and still you are not satisfied, more money will not make you happy, close the ego and open the heart, then contentment will flow in

Before comment, ask yourself, am I the slave to my mind (the thoughts that come from where?) and straight out of my mouth or hand, or is my mind my servant, under my control, who’s every thought that enters him I shall question and truly evaluate before comment

[trisailer]

The Thai constitution provides for people to vote and their vote to count. That is the democratic system that exists and that is the system that should be dealt with. If Thaksin's sister is elected and It appears that she will be elected in a landslide, the government should respect that and deal with it as best it can. There are ways to do that and move the country forward at the same time. On the other hand if there is an attempt to deny the voters their choice than it is more likely that all hell will break lose.

If she gets elected and then fails to produce visible progress than we will quickly return to the present unstable situation. A great leader can take lemons and make lemonade. It doesn't mean that they should just hand out money for people to blow, there can be a targeted investment in Thailand's future. I think that if Thaksin (sister) is elected even he must understand that he is going to have to do a better job than he did before. The money can come from cleaning up some of the corruption which is, according to Bloomberg, clipping at least a few percent off the GDP. Investing in programs like education and interest free loans and small business loans will go a long way to accomplish progress while calming the unrest. Calming the unrest is paramount IMO because there is a point of no return with these things. When peoples passions are aroused they do crazy things. Those crazy things hurt everyone, for a long time. People go on about how great Lincoln was, but I believe that he was a huge failure and had no respect for history. He was obviously listening to the power brokers in the north because the American civil war could and should have been avoided - at all costs. If you add up the lives lost and the damage done and the decades of resentment and violence that resulted I ask myself was it worth it? No it was not. There were several things that he could have done to defuse the situation. Ultimately he had to negotiate with the south anyway and the freedom of the slaves looked good on paper, but produced more violence and actually made their lives worse for 100 years. It was 50 years rebuilding the damage done.

Somebody needs to convince the powers in Thailand that they need to avoid letting this unrest get that far. If the reds had better leaders they could be making a lot more trouble than they are now. This is a wake up call for the powers that be. It is exactly these situations that produce people like Hitler and Saddam and once you've produced one of those guys everyone loses. Thaksin made a lot of money, true, but he made it by being in the right place with the right idea at the right time. Yes there was corruption involved, there is corruption involved in every big business in Thailand. Does anyone think that there were not forces at work to grab a piece of his pie? Nobody knows what really happened and probably never will. It's in the past.

The powers that be in control don't really want democracy because they don't think the farmers and poor people are smart enough to make decisions about the country's forward progress. I think that they are sure smart enough to know that the current system is not benefiting them like it is benefiting the rich.

Abhist has had his shot and he got it through manipulation, but he has failed to convert into real progress that THE PEOPLE who are ready to vote red can SEE with their own eyes. It appears that he's not going to be reelected so it means nothing anyway.

[trisailer]

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

I actually wrote "of the last 200 centuries." Aristotle, Lincoln, Churchill as a spread - but I'm sure you can google too. I personally like Denis Diderot's bon mot, but not on this forum.

Try "man will never be free......"

Thank for your short list of names Churchill and Lincoln are different from the norm, maybe they were great minds because could be revered for their action and success rather than their philosophy.

I wonder if they would have been considered great minds if they had lost, Well Aristotle who could doubt. but plato his teacher never believed in a democracy has it was democracy that had killed his teacher socreties

Great minds come from men of peace without care of wealth, see if you can think of some

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.

Abraham Lincoln

Personally, I quite admire his philosophy.

Lincoln was a complete failure IMO. He let the civil war happen which killed over a million people and destroyed the American economy for many decades. It is beyond me how anyone can think that was a good thing. The slave's that he "freed" had it much worse than before they were "freed" and a third of the country was burned to the ground.

You do realize that 200 century's is 20,000 years, right? You did say 20 century's BTW and 20 century's ago democracy was a very small social experiment in Greece as a result of a popular uprising, that in actuality wasn't democracy at all. Rome fiddled with it, but kept going back to the autocracy. Nowhere else in the world was democracy being practiced 2,000 years ago, it represented only .1% of the worlds population and it only took hold because of the failure of the autocracy's to appease the people in the 1700's. Google "evolution of democracy" and learn something besides the propaganda the you were taught to believe.

Humans want LEADERSHIP! they are starved for it and they will follow great leaders to the death. The problem is that democratic process does not produce great leaders at all. They show up from time to time randomly just like great autocrats did. So humans are right back where they started with suffering with poor leadership.

Ghandi was a great leader. He ran the British out of India and held the opposing forces together to form a coalition government and he did it all without violence. People supported him and trusted him because they knew he loved them and he was willing to live simply in spite of having a choice.

[Britannia]

I think the poster trisailer thinks without emotional intervention, which is positive thinking There are two things that govern the Universe and we are a part of the Univers, positive and negative and before anyone comments I fully understand that there needs to be negative to balance the positive. Actions are what count not words not reading not knowledge but actions. Academics will never make a Ghandi, Good actions generate good actions, and bad generate bad. Like it or not Taksin is venerated in much of thailand and many would prostrate before him, As the Taksin we are all talking about, he will be loved and hated, but with the heart of Ghandi, he would be immortalised and do great things, nothing is not reversable one only needs the heart and will. He was blessed as a leader, he should lead with heart not greed

[OzMick]

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.

Abraham Lincoln

Personally, I quite admire his philosophy.

Lincoln was a complete failure IMO. He let the civil war happen which killed over a million people and destroyed the American economy for many decades. It is beyond me how anyone can think that was a good thing. The slave's that he "freed" had it much worse than before they were "freed" and a third of the country was burned to the ground.

You do realize that 200 century's is 20,000 years, right? You did say 20 century's BTW and 20 century's ago democracy was a very small social experiment in Greece as a result of a popular uprising, that in actuality wasn't democracy at all. Rome fiddled with it, but kept going back to the autocracy. Nowhere else in the world was democracy being practiced 2,000 years ago, it represented only .1% of the worlds population and it only took hold because of the failure of the autocracy's to appease the people in the 1700's. Google "evolution of democracy" and learn something besides the propaganda the you were taught to believe.

Humans want LEADERSHIP! they are starved for it and they will follow great leaders to the death. The problem is that democratic process does not produce great leaders at all. They show up from time to time randomly just like great autocrats did. So humans are right back where they started with suffering with poor leadership.

Ghandi was a great leader. He ran the British out of India and held the opposing forces together to form a coalition government and he did it all without violence. People supported him and trusted him because they knew he loved them and he was willing to live simply in spite of having a choice.

200 was a typo.

I'm well aware of Athenian democracy and IMHO .1% is probably an overestimate. Lincoln corrected a great social evil but perhaps in your opinion the price was too high - I doubt that most African Americans would agree with you.

You continually run down democracy but fail to mention, or perhaps notice, the huge flux of people voting with their feet and moving from autocratic to democratic regimes. Strangely enough, these are the greatest advocates of democracy, much more than many , like yourself, who have brought up in a democratic state. Perhaps it's because they have tried both.

I have mixed feelings about Ghandi. As a person, the man was a hypocrite refusing to let his wife be treated by western medicine (she died) while later accepting treatment for himself. Perhaps he learned, or perhaps it had to do with his penchant for sleeping with very young women 2 at a time - supposedly it helped his arthritis.

I have similar feelings about MLK, a christian minister who would shag anything that would lie down. At least he had some achievements unlike many others of similar habits in that profession.

[animatic]

Tough choice in the coming elections! It's like choosing between two bad fish at a market: one fish has rotten body but a good head (Abhisit) and another good body but a rotten head (Thaksin). What is it going to be?

Getting good head,

beats having a rotten body.

I've dated crazy girls with hot bods,

but their mind makes all the pleasure of their looks irrelevant.

Now if the head is crazy and the body is large

and keeps kicking you it is lose lose all around.

[animatic]

'Britannia' timestamp='1308395113' post='4497672'

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

I actually wrote "of the last 200 centuries." Aristotle, Lincoln, Churchill as a spread - but I'm sure you can google too. I personally like Denis Diderot's bon mot, but not on this forum.

Try "man will never be free......"

Thank for your short list of names Churchill and Lincoln are different from the norm, maybe they were great minds because could be revered for their action and success rather than their philosophy.

I wonder if they would have been considered great minds if they had lost, Well Aristotle who could doubt. but plato his teacher never believed in a democracy has it was democracy that had killed his teacher socreties

Great minds come from men of peace without care of wealth, see if you can think of some

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.

Abraham Lincoln

Personally, I quite admire his philosophy.

Lincoln was a complete failure IMO. He let the civil war happen which killed over a million people and destroyed the American economy for many decades. It is beyond me how anyone can think that was a good thing. The slave's that he "freed" had it much worse than before they were "freed" and a third of the country was burned to the ground.

You do realize that 200 century's is 20,000 years, right? You did say 20 century's BTW and 20 century's ago democracy was a very small social experiment in Greece as a result of a popular uprising, that in actuality wasn't democracy at all. Rome fiddled with it, but kept going back to the autocracy. Nowhere else in the world was democracy being practiced 2,000 years ago, it represented only .1% of the worlds population and it only took hold because of the failure of the autocracy's to appease the people in the 1700's. Google "evolution of democracy" and learn something besides the propaganda the you were taught to believe.

Humans want LEADERSHIP! they are starved for it and they will follow great leaders to the death. The problem is that democratic process does not produce great leaders at all. They show up from time to time randomly just like great autocrats did. So humans are right back where they started with suffering with poor leadership.

Ghandi was a great leader. He ran the British out of India and held the opposing forces together to form a coalition government and he did it all without violence. People supported him and trusted him because they knew he loved them and he was willing to live simply in spite of having a choice.

Quite obviously you have read little of Lincoln and the world he was forced to deal with.