Thai Democrats Go For Broke

[paul43]

Spot on.

Democrats are now blaming PTP for the 91 deaths which is perverse.

"if you hadn't demonstrated so strongly we wouldn't have needed to shoot you'

If they had demonstrated legally there would have been no need of any violence. OF COURSE the Red Sides ringers in Black attacked FIRST.

Not true, there was black shirt people as democrorats clamed - theese people come from somewhere and was set up to give

a reason for the army to attack, the fact is they was asking for new election long time

and things started to burn the day abisist gave the order for attacking !

Your logic:

red shirt people get manipulated by 500 bath and are wanted to lose their life for 500 bath fee

so if they realy fight for some needings they have they do deserve to die by the shooting of the army.

and if they would ask for a election peacefully ................(wich for requested 4 times actualy before the mob)

they wouldnt get shooten ??

may i ask what kind of 3, world country you are naturaly from ?

if red shirts collect 143 thousend votes...........do you think its fair of the actualy goverman to not vote new?

and do you realy think that its wrong to demonstrate against a military ruled party call themselve democrats but

reject a new vote with over 43.000 people more than needed ?

the fact is, you have not at all any idea of what is democracy all about .............

who cares demonstrate leaders was in the mom in 2006, actualy many of them...........

its sadly you belive in evil lies -

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It's not hang em high.

It's vote the rotters back to hell, not to control over all our lives.

I *SO* look forward to browsing these pages in 2-3 weeks. time.

Back on the topic at hand: What Abhisit is doing is the same failing tactic: try to provoke Phua Thai into an ungentlemanly response. That he does this over the corpses of the protesters that died makes it all the more sickening, but all is fair in love and elections.

As long as Phua Thai and k. Yingluck don't allow themselves to be dragged down into the mud puddle there's not much to worry about.

Will all be well in 3 weeks time.. of course not. Even if Phua Thai wins, the invisible hands will be hanging over them, proving once again that Thailand isn't really a democracy. They DO however would get another shot at building a strong civilian / elected government. Better hope it's not too late.

Edited June 18, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[lannarebirth]

the fact is, you have not at all any idea of what is democracy all about .............

I think "The Seven Pillars Of A Sustainable Democracy" as outlined by former PM Anand Panyarachun are a good start. It's not just about votes;

http://thailand.prd.go.th/ebook/review/content.php?chapterID=72

That's just an excerpt from his lectures on the subject. Well worth Googling.

[mrtoad]

if you wanna have a good tip,

go back in your stupid bar drink your stupid beer and shut and better talk to your intelegant

ladys you got your arguments from lol

emotional misstype - so by the way since you dont have anything else to say seems like you think also that im right ?

thanks :=)

No, sadly I don't think you are right, and what I think might not really be appropriate for posting.

However, I will say that you have managed to pile in a lot of sweeping generalisations and assumptions in your previous couple of posts/ arguments, showing a well developed sense of narrow mindedness.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

your 500 bath fairytail was never real and will never be real,

red shirt supporters even hate thaksin - at least far more than 50 %

i know that you would do everything for 500 bath but please dont

think what you do everone will do, we all know you like to sitt in bars and need that money so hard

for payin your addiction but - realy................get a life and stop commenting with a argument got proofed thousend

times that its such a cheap propaganda lie.

you cannot talk thai at all right ? otherways you would not comment such a crap

i comment it already..............go to your pattaya bar and talk to people are in your class,

they understand the argument since it comes by the same crack heads anyways :=)

Looking forward to more of your analysis of the political, social and economic situation in Thailand. You seem to have a very open mind

LOL, as if this sub-forums residents have shown a very open mind.

Paul43: Your response is exactly what Abhsit hopes to accomplish in Phua Thai and Ms. Yingluck. Don't get pulled down to his level.

It also shows what a brilliant decision it was to let k. Yingluck lead the campaign; those who fought and saw their brothers die would very likely have snapped at this sickening tactic from Mr. Abhisit. Not sure if the Western press will pick up on him losing his mask; underneath he's just another Suthep..

[samurai]

the fact is, you have not at all any idea of what is democracy all about .............

I think "The Seven Pillars Of A Sustainable Democracy" as outlined by former PM Anand Panyarachun are a good start. It's not just about votes;

http://thailand.prd.go.th/ebook/review/content.php?chapterID=72

That's just an excerpt from his lectures on the subject. Well worth Googling.

"In his view, there are seven main pillars of the architecture of democracy, namely elections, political tolerance, the rule of law, freedom of expression, accountability and transparency, decentralization, and civil society. Democracy becomes dysfunctional when the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the legislature, the private sector, the police, and the military all use their power to enrich themselves and advance their own interests at the expense of civil society."

[gleeglee]

The next leaders of Thailand Joke

Pheu Thai deputy leader Kanawat Wasinsungworn warned yesterday that the Democrats are reviving memories of the May 19 turbulence at their peril. "You know who killed protesters," he said, "but can the government prove the red shirts burned buildings?"

Really, some of us saw it with our own eyes, Guns and Fire. and more to the point the Leadership of the Reds was telling them to do it. What other proof do you need?

Everyone knows... We don't need to prove it was red shirts!

The single largest portion of the electorate believe that burning some buildings in retaliation for stealing their votes and shooting at them is a reasonable response.

Which is why the people of Thailand do not need their representation. Rational thought is necessary.

[JurgenG]

"Almost two decades ago, a similar strategy stunned Chamlong Srimuang. It was a home-stretch election offensive that continues to fuel the long-held belief that the Democrats are the masters of character assassination. Accusing Chamlong of "leading people to their deaths" was not a noble tactic, but it worked quite well."

Should I say more ?

I know there is a number of teachers here and they will understand what I'm talking about. Sometime you see young students and you think if they spent the same energy studying that they spend trying to cheat, they would most certainly be at the top of their class.

It's the same with the democrats. Will they one day try to win the election in a clean way ?

They suck at cheating. But they are so convinced that's the only way to win an election that they don't even try to win the honest way.

I wish one day the democrats will reconnect with our moral values. That day we will have a real alternative to Thaksin.

Edited June 18, 2011 by JurgenG

[lannarebirth]

the fact is, you have not at all any idea of what is democracy all about .............

I think "The Seven Pillars Of A Sustainable Democracy" as outlined by former PM Anand Panyarachun are a good start. It's not just about votes;

http://thailand.prd....hp?chapterID=72

That's just an excerpt from his lectures on the subject. Well worth Googling.

"In his view, there are seven main pillars of the architecture of democracy, namely elections, political tolerance, the rule of law, freedom of expression, accountability and transparency, decentralization, and civil society. Democracy becomes dysfunctional when the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the legislature, the private sector, the police, and the military all use their power to enrich themselves and advance their own interests at the expense of civil society."

Almost every institution named is tremendously flawed. The question is who might begin to make progress towards reforming those institutions? For each one named I'll give you an example of Thaksin's approach.

Elections: Party disbanded for vote fraud.

Political Tolerace: When in power he withhld funds in a punitive manner from those districts that did not vote for his party

The rule of Law: When human rights organizations took issue with his mass murdering war on drugs and Tak Bai massacre, he said "The UN is not my father"

Freedom Of Expression: Endless defamation lawsuits against anyone who dared to question his leadership or actions

Accountability: He's in self imposed exile and a fugitive from justice.

Transparency: Show me his party platform beyond amnesty

Decentralisation: He actually made some progress in this regard but always with tyhe local feudalist who became his patron.

Civil Society:

Edited June 18, 2011 by lannarebirth

[paul43]

i dont know how you all see it......................but the most funny thing this days is that the DEMOCRATS say NO VOTE over propaganda papers they hand out everywhere in the city but still

call themselve democrats - this is such soooooooo funny and then call thaksin the thief or chinese is even more funny.

abisith is and was always far away of beeing democratic, he is a set up puppet by a interest groupe that only plan to play around with the needings of thai people

but never planed to realy fillfull them, luckely thais are awake this days and many so called "yellow" shirts get pissed of by this kind of agressive fooling tactics.

[whybother]

"Almost two decades ago, a similar strategy stunned Chamlong Srimuang. It was a home-stretch election offensive that continues to fuel the long-held belief that the Democrats are the masters of character assassination. Accusing Chamlong of "leading people to their deaths" was not a noble tactic, but it worked quite well."

Should I say more ?

Please don't.

I know there is a number of teachers here and they will understand what I'm talking about. Sometime you see young students and you think if they spent the same energy studying that they spend trying to cheat, they would most certainly be at the top of their class.

It's the same with the democrats. Will they one day try to win the election in a clean way ?

They suck at cheating. But they are so convinced that's the only way to win an election that they don't even try to win the honest way.

I wish one day the democrats will reconnect with our moral values. That day we will have a real alternative to Thaksin.

The Democrats suck at cheating, but Thaksin's parties are really good at it.

[whybother]

i dont know how you all see it......................but the most funny thing this days is that the DEMOCRATS say NO VOTE over propaganda papers they hand out everywhere in the city but still

call themselve democrats - this is such soooooooo funny and then call thaksin the thief or chinese is even more funny.

abisith is and was always far away of beeing democratic, he is a set up puppet by a interest groupe that only plan to play around with the needings of thai people

but never planed to realy fillfull them, luckely thais are awake this days and many so called "yellow" shirts get pissed of by this kind of agressive fooling tactics.

Ummm... Which Democrats are handing out No Vote leaflets?

[paul43]

so can you bring any proof of thaksin party is cheatin ?

i bet not :=)

[whybother]

so can you bring any proof of thaksin party is cheatin ?

i bet not :=)

His last two parties were banned for cheating.

Edited June 18, 2011 by whybother

[paul43]

I certainly have no idea what you're talking about. Does that count?

of course not, bangkok post and "the nation" dont write that ..........................

[MrChangers]

"Almost two decades ago, a similar strategy stunned Chamlong Srimuang. It was a home-stretch election offensive that continues to fuel the long-held belief that the Democrats are the masters of character assassination. Accusing Chamlong of "leading people to their deaths" was not a noble tactic, but it worked quite well."

Should I say more ?

I know there is a number of teachers here and they will understand what I'm talking about. Sometime you see young students and you think if they spent the same energy studying that they spend trying to cheat, they would most certainly be at the top of their class.

It's the same with the democrats. Will they one day try to win the election in a clean way ?

They suck at cheating. But they are so convinced that's the only way to win an election that they don't even try to win the honest way.

I wish one day the democrats will reconnect with our moral values. That day we will have a real alternative to Thaksin.

Regarding the students, I agree with you whole heartedly as I see the same in my students, especially the adults.

Back to the news item..... Abhisit has shown the last act of a desperate man in politics, throwing dog mess about, hoping someone else will pick it up to throw back. Not clever, where was his wise council?

[noahvail]

if you can read thai take a look at this my friend http://www.matichon....1306812633l.jpg

this is an officaly democratic yellow shirt poster ..............any questions ?

then whole party claim around like DONT VOTE and shit.............

another example for this great democrats http://1.bp.blogspot...0/vote%2Bno.JPG

all they want is hold the power..............thats why they also shoot the people last year anyways

I think you need to find out a bit more about Thailand politics. That isn't a Democrat poster.

Quite right.

Perhaps Paul should take his own advice.

[paul43]

no i say that it aint cheatin if a govermant want reds to be the cheater and call them like that only to get in charge and get the power

and not at all democratic

[soundman]

Politicians, political parties and other social groups will be referred to by their proper names, or your posts will dis-appear.

[paul43]

Now you're saying it's OK that Thaksin's parties cheated?

you still dont understand that its about who call what what right ?

if abisith want get the power and call thaksin that time cheatin.

a) what has that to do with PTP today?

is this realy worth to listen someone want the power and kick someone else out and does it worth

to give any weight on people call thaksin that time "cheating" ?

an example, you have a bar in pattaya and me come around and talk to the police and pay them for kick you out cause you cheating the beer with put water inside,

would you yourselve belive in that you was cheating ?

i bet so

[whybother]

Now you're saying it's OK that Thaksin's parties cheated?

you still dont understand that its about who call what what right ?

if abisith want get the power and call thaksin that time cheatin.

a) what has that to do with PTP today?

is this realy worth to listen someone want the power and kick someone else out and does it worth

to give any weight on people call thaksin that time "cheating" ?

an example, you have a bar in pattaya and me come around and talk to the police and pay them for kick you out cause you cheating the beer with put water inside,

would you yourselve belive in that you was cheating ?

i bet so

A ) PTP is Thaksin's party, just the same as TRT and PPP were.

B ) There was video evidence of Thaksin's PPP cheating.

[lannarebirth]

Politicians, political parties and other social groups will be referred to by their proper names, or your posts will dis-appear.

Fair enough, but why were my posts removed?

[soundman]

Politicians, political parties and other social groups will be referred to by their proper names, or your posts will dis-appear.

Fair enough, but why were my posts removed?

Bundled into the replies, and on these fast moving topics it takes a lot of time to edit.

(next time by PM thanx).

[Bagwan]

Pheu Thai deputy leader Kanawat Wasinsungworn warned yesterday that the Democrats are reviving memories of the May 19 turbulence at their peril. "You know who killed protesters," he said, "but can the government prove the red shirts burned buildings?"

Really, some of us saw it with our own eyes, Guns and Fire. and more to the point the Leadership of the Reds was telling them to do it. What other proof do you need?

Everyone knows... We don't need to prove it was red shirts!

The single largest portion of the electorate believe that burning some buildings in retaliation for stealing their votes and shooting at them is a reasonable response.

Which is why the people of Thailand do not need their representation. Rational thought is necessary.

The danger to Thailandis not Yingluck but a citizenry capable of entrusting an inexperienced womanlike her with the leadership of the political process. It will be far easier tolimit and undo the follies of a PTP Government than to impart the necessary commonsense and good judgment to an ignorant and deluded electorate willing to havesuch a woman for their puppet leader. The problem is much deeper and far moreserious than Yingluck and the rest of the Shinawatra clan, who are mere symptomsof what ails Thailand.Blaming the elected leader of the fools who govern should not blind anyone tothe vast confederacy of fools that made him/her their leader. Thailandcan survive a PTP Government. It is less likely to survive in the modern worldthrough the actions of a multitude of fools whose votes and loyalty can bebought and thus perpetuating what has gone before.

Maybe Thailand’ssalvation will come in the form of full time education and access toinformation via the Internet. I fear that it may be too late already,.

[animatic]

Politicians, political parties and other social groups will be referred to by their proper names, or your posts will dis-appear.

Dems and PTP Ok...

no need to write the whole name out right?

[animatic]

'KKvampire' timestamp='1308362154' post='4496430'

Pheu Thai deputy leader Kanawat Wasinsungworn warned yesterday that the Democrats are reviving memories of the May 19 turbulence at their peril. "You know who killed protesters," he said, "but can the government prove the red shirts burned buildings?"

Really, some of us saw it with our own eyes, Guns and Fire. and more to the point the Leadership of the Reds was telling them to do it. What other proof do you need?

Everyone knows... We don't need to prove it was red shirts!

The single largest portion of the electorate believe that burning some buildings in retaliation for stealing their votes and shooting at them is a reasonable response.

Which is why the people of Thailand do not need their representation. Rational thought is necessary.

The danger to Thailandis not Yingluck but a citizenry capable of entrusting an inexperienced womanlike her with the leadership of the political process. It will be far easier tolimit and undo the follies of a PTP Government than to impart the necessary commonsense and good judgment to an ignorant and deluded electorate willing to havesuch a woman for their puppet leader. The problem is much deeper and far moreserious than Yingluck and the rest of the Shinawatra clan, who are mere symptomsof what ails Thailand.Blaming the elected leader of the fools who govern should not blind anyone tothe vast confederacy of fools that made him/her their leader. Thailandcan survive a PTP Government. It is less likely to survive in the modern worldthrough the actions of a multitude of fools whose votes and loyalty can bebought and thus perpetuating what has gone before.

Maybe Thailand'ssalvation will come in the form of full time education and access toinformation via the Internet. I fear that it may be too late already,.

The last line gets to the point.

Salvation of Thailand will be from the under 30-40 generation, who have seen and communicated outside the narrow schooling they grew up from. Their parents have not, and can not in general. So sadly we may have 10-20 years more before these following communications enable generations take full controls, and a more true democratic functioning can take place.

[tlansford]

If they had demonstrated legally there would have been no need of any violence. OF COURSE the Red Sides ringers in Black attacked FIRST.

Red logic:

It is reasonable to shoot at security forces,

and not the other way round.

It is obvious then and now,

that the violence was caused by a chain of Red Leader Decisions

and that the PTP was closely tied to the Red Leaders,

when they weren't actually within the same person like Jaturporn.

Many groups protest in Bangkok, and little or no violence happens,

but few ever push the social order to the breaking point as the red rallies so clearly did, as a clear aim of their very existence.

This needs to be loudly trumpeted and shown on all media,

the facts can speak fro themselves, no need to exaggerate.

The forces of good must show the forces of evil for what they are,

and then show how they plan to help those desperate enough to believe the evil ones lies.

Governments have the obligation to not kill their own citizens. They also have the means to achieve this.

This is not limited to last May in BKK, but that is a good example.

[MrChangers]

The danger to Thailandis not Yingluck but a citizenry capable of entrusting an inexperienced womanlike her with the leadership of the political process. It will be far easier tolimit and undo the follies of a PTP Government than to impart the necessary commonsense and good judgment to an ignorant and deluded electorate willing to havesuch a woman for their puppet leader. The problem is much deeper and far moreserious than Yingluck and the rest of the Shinawatra clan, who are mere symptomsof what ails Thailand.Blaming the elected leader of the fools who govern should not blind anyone tothe vast confederacy of fools that made him/her their leader. Thailandcan survive a PTP Government. It is less likely to survive in the modern worldthrough the actions of a multitude of fools whose votes and loyalty can bebought and thus perpetuating what has gone before.

Maybe Thailand'ssalvation will come in the form of full time education and access toinformation via the Internet. I fear that it may be too late already,.

The last line gets to the point.

Salvation of Thailand will be from the under 30-40 generation, who have seen and communicated outside the narrow schooling they grew up from. Their parents have not, and can not in general. So sadly we may have 10-20 years more before these following communications enable generations take full controls, and a more true democratic functioning can take place.

On the subject of education: I agree that with all the hi-tech equipment the younger Thai people use they have access to more truth/opinions in their village/city than the blind following of older generations.... BUT and it is a big BUT .... they are taught not to question the elder/better/richer person from day 1. Those of us that live buried into Thai life know that Po-Rai is the core of the social fabric and will be a very hard, if not impossible thread to tease out. Students never question the teacher, they may question within themselves but will never confront the teacher.

I wonder how long it will take for this to change and hopefully for the better of the people.

[lannarebirth]

The danger to Thailandis not Yingluck but a citizenry capable of entrusting an inexperienced womanlike her with the leadership of the political process. It will be far easier tolimit and undo the follies of a PTP Government than to impart the necessary commonsense and good judgment to an ignorant and deluded electorate willing to havesuch a woman for their puppet leader. The problem is much deeper and far moreserious than Yingluck and the rest of the Shinawatra clan, who are mere symptomsof what ails Thailand.Blaming the elected leader of the fools who govern should not blind anyone tothe vast confederacy of fools that made him/her their leader. Thailandcan survive a PTP Government. It is less likely to survive in the modern worldthrough the actions of a multitude of fools whose votes and loyalty can bebought and thus perpetuating what has gone before.

Maybe Thailand'ssalvation will come in the form of full time education and access toinformation via the Internet. I fear that it may be too late already,.

The last line gets to the point.

Salvation of Thailand will be from the under 30-40 generation, who have seen and communicated outside the narrow schooling they grew up from. Their parents have not, and can not in general. So sadly we may have 10-20 years more before these following communications enable generations take full controls, and a more true democratic functioning can take place.

On the subject of education: I agree that with all the hi-tech equipment the younger Thai people use they have access to more truth/opinions in their village/city than the blind following of older generations.... BUT and it is a big BUT .... they are taught not to question the elder/better/richer person from day 1. Those of us that live buried into Thai life know that Po-Rai is the core of the social fabric and will be a very hard, if not impossible thread to tease out. Students never question the teacher, they may question within themselves but will never confront the teacher.

I wonder how long it will take for this to change and hopefully for the better of the people.

It's not going to start with Thaksin coming back now is it?

[animatic]

If they had demonstrated legally there would have been no need of any violence. OF COURSE the Red Sides ringers in Black attacked FIRST.

Red logic:

It is reasonable to shoot at security forces,

and not the other way round.

It is obvious then and now,

that the violence was caused by a chain of Red Leader Decisions

and that the PTP was closely tied to the Red Leaders,

when they weren't actually within the same person like Jaturporn.

Many groups protest in Bangkok, and little or no violence happens,

but few ever push the social order to the breaking point as the red rallies so clearly did, as a clear aim of their very existence.

This needs to be loudly trumpeted and shown on all media,

the facts can speak fro themselves, no need to exaggerate.

The forces of good must show the forces of evil for what they are,

and then show how they plan to help those desperate enough to believe the evil ones lies.

Governments have the obligation to not kill their own citizens. They also have the means to achieve this.

This is not limited to last May in BKK, but that is a good example.

I would say that governments have an obligation to try not to kill their own citizens. Also known as 'Showing Restraint'. Many now say Abhisit showed too much restraint, and let it go too far.

Some times it is unavoidable, such as Bkk 2010, some times said citizens make it the only possible choice. You may call that the tyranny of the majority, but it has always been so. To protect the majority occasionally harm is visited on the individual. Otherwise we have anarchy and individuals indiscriminately harming each other for their own personal advantage. If all humans were properly wired to be good citizens there would be no need for authority to exist.

Edited June 18, 2011 by animatic