Russian Found Hanged In Phuket Police Cell

[Samuian]

Tuk-tuk, Taxi-mafia, jet ski and motorbike-car-rental SCAM and the authorities look on because it's "good business" fine income, "money for nothig and the chicks for free" from stupid farang...it's so easy and no repercussions to be feared or be afraid of, so well, some do look down on the golden geese.. just make sure not to give 'em a chance to scam you!

And by far not all.... same, same but diferent, if it smells fishy it certainly is fishy..! So be aware inform yourself, get "street wise" by getting as much information as one can get, don't act stupid and don't make a fool out of yourself in public!

Edited June 21, 2011 by Samuian

[SkyHigh]

Like all stories in Thailand, you have to read between the lines, and the real truth will never be known. I am not buying that self immolation story, as stated by the rental operator. Sounds like the Russian guy was ripped off, and came back looking for revenge by burning up some motorcycles. I suspect that right now the rental operator is crapping in his pants, hoping the Russian mafia does not come after him. :jap:

Dont say it out loud. Let people think there's all about jetski scam.

Oh no no no.. the Russian mafia doesnt exist. And the Thai authorities are all super nice & innocent people.

Welcome to Thailand. lol.

[SAffer]

"He may have had a problem with another rental outfit and got confused," said the operator.

Got confused eh ? how come you DID have his passport ?????.....

"Arguments between motorbike rental operators and their clients are a common source of problems in the Phuket tourism industry."

Yeah because they keep trying to scam the tourists !!!

RIP the Russian guy, not saying he was blameless in all this but its still a terrible wasts of a life.

You read it the same as I did at first but re-read it and the Russian had his own passport. And with the smell of alcohol he probably was pretty drunk.

How do you smell of alcohol when you have gas poured over yourself?

Difficult to pour gas on yourself because gas is a vapour

Not in American English... and not in British English either... for example LPG, Refridgerant, and so-on. So... check your facts before making a fool of yourself.:jap:

[TinoThailand]

Suicide happens now and then under unhappy people mostly... A lot of unhappy people come to Thailand for a better life and forget they also have to work on themselfs.

I know many would not trust the fact it happend at a police station but that does not makes it easy to say he was killed.

I would be thinking sooner about the part that he is rusian, there are quit a few Rusian Businessman investing around the beaches who control parts of the police. But then again this is an other thinking up loud...

[normac44]

Typically the motor bike scam involves a tourist renting a bike and having to leave his or her passport with the rental agency as a deposit for the bike. Then when the bike is returned to the agency scratches or other faults are pointed out and a huge sum of money is required to cover the damage. The other and crueller version of the scam involves someone from the rental agency turning up at the renters hotel in the wee small hours with a duplicate set of keys and taking the vehicle back... then the renter has to report the bike as stolen... the so called insurance is useless and they have to pay to replace the bike before they get their passport back

Thanks for the valuable insight. So how should one protect oneself? Renting from more reputable operators (assuming one exists )

I only leave a color photocopy of my passport and license.if they don't accept it I just move on to another renter.Never leave your' passport with anyone.

I also take a photo of the bike as well.Better to shop around for a rental place that hires fairly new bikes rather than beaten up old ones.

If they object then I just move on to another one .Never had any trouble in the last 15 years doing this everywhere.

[normac44]

There are so many wonderful insights provided by the responders here. Obviously many have nothing better to do than theorise and provide unfounded conjecture as to what may, or may not have happened - then leap into digressive speculation about what they may, or may not know about the national habits of people from a country they have only heard about.

Get a life.

So we now have an expert on all things related to Thailand.I lived ther for years and am still confused.

[foxteen]

I find very weird about these suicides in Thailand,sorry but i have my doughts

[sylver]

...You read it the same as I did at first but re-read it and the Russian had his own passport. And with the smell of alcohol he probably was pretty drunk.

That means nothing. At all.

Most likely, the Russian guy rented a bike for one of these guys. They would have the passport, wouldn't they? So after they beat the guy up they put the passport back on him and that's the whole trick.

The typical scam is that the guy comes back, the rental guys complain about fake damages and ask for payment. They hold the passport hostage. The guy refuses to pay, they beat him up and call the police. The guy is out, so he can't say anything, and even if he could, the police would probably not understand him.

Here, these guys are trying to make us believe that some drunk russian guy managed to spill gas on their bikes AND on himself, pulled out a lighter, and then that they were able to prevent him from sparkling a flame? They supposedly couldn't stop this drunk guy to walk with a large canister of gas (has to be heavy to contain enough gas) and pour it over their bikes & on himself, but they were able to snatch the lighter at the last minute? Who the *** do these guys think they are kidding?

[Mrjlh]

...You read it the same as I did at first but re-read it and the Russian had his own passport. And with the smell of alcohol he probably was pretty drunk.

That means nothing. At all.

Most likely, the Russian guy rented a bike for one of these guys. They would have the passport, wouldn't they? So after they beat the guy up they put the passport back on him and that's the whole trick.

The typical scam is that the guy comes back, the rental guys complain about fake damages and ask for payment. They hold the passport hostage. The guy refuses to pay, they beat him up and call the police. The guy is out, so he can't say anything, and even if he could, the police would probably not understand him.

Here, these guys are trying to make us believe that some drunk russian guy managed to spill gas on their bikes AND on himself, pulled out a lighter, and then that they were able to prevent him from sparkling a flame? They supposedly couldn't stop this drunk guy to walk with a large canister of gas (has to be heavy to contain enough gas) and pour it over their bikes & on himself, but they were able to snatch the lighter at the last minute? Who the *** do these guys think they are kidding?

Would you like to add any more to your story? Starting to be a pretty good novel. I wasn't there and I'm sure you weren't either. Not all those guys are crooks. You might want to believe so but you'd be wrong. I deal with a quite a few of these people in the three years I lived there. There are some bad ones but there are many more good ones.

[swerver]

Typically the motor bike scam involves a tourist renting a bike and having to leave his or her passport with the rental agency as a deposit for the bike. Then when the bike is returned to the agency scratches or other faults are pointed out and a huge sum of money is required to cover the damage. The other and crueller version of the scam involves someone from the rental agency turning up at the renters hotel in the wee small hours with a duplicate set of keys and taking the vehicle back... then the renter has to report the bike as stolen... the so called insurance is useless and they have to pay to replace the bike before they get their passport back

Thanks for the valuable insight. So how should one protect oneself? Renting from more reputable operators (assuming one exists )

How to protect yourself,

Dont rent motorcycles in Thailand and absolutely NOT when you are from a country that drives on the other side of the road than in Thailand.

Forty years ago a guy that worked with me in the Middle East did not take my suggestion, well for the last forty-years he has been in a wheelchair, he did meet an 18-wheeler HEAD ON when he was hauling ass - as these Looney motorcycle riders say - on a winding mountain road outside Pattaya while driving as if he was in America which is the wrong side of the road in Thailand regardless that American demands to rule the world there are still lots of countries that drive on the LH side of the road. I can only remember one country that changed from LH to RH drive years ago right after WW II in Scandinavia.

If you insist on driving, rent a car in which you have more metal around you. On a motorbike you sit on both sides of it, so you cannot miss to get injured. When renting a car go with Hertz, Avis and some of the other international car rental companies. Stay away from the low price locals. Low price means lots of problems.

Edited June 21, 2011 by metisdead
Please use default forum font.

[KeyserSoze01]

There are so many wonderful insights provided by the responders here. Obviously many have nothing better to do than theorise and provide unfounded conjecture as to what may, or may not have happened - then leap into digressive speculation about what they may, or may not know about the national habits of people from a country they have only heard about.

Get a life.

I take it you have never been to Thailand or Russia. Most of the 'insights' provided by contributors here are true, of course, based on my own anecdotal experience having spent considerable time in each country..

How many times does a person have to hear horror stories about Thai rental agencies and the BiB before it starts to sink in? Farang are not wanted in these tourist destinations, only their $$$. If you make any trouble, you become the next Thai suicide victim. Capiche?

[Jeii3000]

It must be that Thai ploice are the Jack Kevorkian ofthe Frangs in Thailand

WOW!! Jack Kevorkian, here's a reference for you...Haven't heard that name in ages.

[OzMick]

Typically the motor bike scam involves a tourist renting a bike and having to leave his or her passport with the rental agency as a deposit for the bike. Then when the bike is returned to the agency scratches or other faults are pointed out and a huge sum of money is required to cover the damage. The other and crueller version of the scam involves someone from the rental agency turning up at the renters hotel in the wee small hours with a duplicate set of keys and taking the vehicle back... then the renter has to report the bike as stolen... the so called insurance is useless and they have to pay to replace the bike before they get their passport back

Thanks for the valuable insight. So how should one protect oneself? Renting from more reputable operators (assuming one exists )

I only leave a color photocopy of my passport and license.if they don't accept it I just move on to another renter.Never leave your' passport with anyone.

I also take a photo of the bike as well.Better to shop around for a rental place that hires fairly new bikes rather than beaten up old ones.

If they object then I just move on to another one .Never had any trouble in the last 15 years doing this everywhere.

Good advice on the passport. I have a bike small rental business and all my bikes have a few years on them. Understand that if you rent a new(ish) bike and it is badly damaged or stolen you could be up for the price of a new bike as replacement, and the replacement cost could be 3 times that of an older bike. As long as the bike is well maintained it should be OK.

[atsiii]

I have to agree... how do you smell alcohol if he poured gas all over himself? The tourist probably was drunk, as he no doubt got himself fortified with the courage to go back and demand his passport. It sounds like the "operator" did have his passport, and either put it back on his person after he and the tuk-tuk drivers "subdued" him... or he just handed it to the police and said that it was dropped during the fight.

The tourist is put into solitary for being drunk and disorderly like everyone else in Patpong... why solitary? And if his clothes really were soaked in gasoline--an inflammable and an irritant--would he not be given overalls or some jail suit to wear? If someone had covered themselves with gas and threatened to burn themselves alive--as the operator claims--would they not be on 24-hour suicide watch? It all sounds pretty strange once again.

My guess is that the tourist threw gas on the motor bikes (not himself) as a threat to get his passport back. A fight ensued... the police came and of course arrested the tourist and nobody else. The operator handed back the passport and said it was dropped during the fight with the "crazy farang" (wink-wink). Which leaves the questions: why was he put in solitary for being drunk and disorderly (like everyone else), and how did he end up dead while in police custody?

Can anyone actually figure out a way to roll up a shirt (no doubt a short sleeved light weight shirt or a t-shirt), or to tear up a shirt into strips so that it's long enough to tie one end around your neck and the other end around a steel bar; and then still be strong enough to support the weight of one's own body? Perhaps it's possible... but I'll bet it's not an easy task. You would of course also need a chair or box or something to stand on that you could kick away once everything was tied; so are there normally chairs or something else like this in solitary confinement cells? Perhaps they should call Dr. Porntip, as this sounds like another crazy suicide like the one where the farang beat himself to death with a baseball bat, or the one where the farang shot himself to death with three bullets to the head (he was a poor shot, apparently!).

...yet another sad loss of life over money.

[Shotime]

"Although the issue has been raised repeatedly in recent years at meetings among the island’s honorary consuls and sitting governor, little has changed in how the motorbike rental industry operates." Duh. I don't want to be cynical, or negative, BUT I would have added, "and it never will." ...or, I would have added, "and it can only get worse." There was someone who posted earlier, that the end to the scams was coming soon, or something like that. I'd like it if he would share his insights into that. Maybe he knows better.

I would sooner part with my passport in Thailand, than one of my arms.

AAA is some kind of auto-road assistance company, but it was an understandable mistake given the circumstances.

[tonypace02]

After all, the only thing i am struggling with is why would someone fly to Thailand to commit suicide? can they not do it back home

They fly because walking is out of the question. Clearly the man was trying to commit suicide unless you think he doused himself with gasoline because he had run out of deoderant.

And Charley, you think you might try reading the whole article before commenting and embarrassing yourself? The article said he was in possession of his passport when he was taken into custody. I did not see anything indicating the motorbike renter was taken into custody. Now you can rationalize all kinds of scenarios but the only evidence is what is in the article, unless you know something the rest of us don't.

Who knows what he had in mind. The only thing of any significance is that he poured gasoline on himself. You have to believe that at that moment all rational thinking is gone. There being no evidence of antipathy by the police, there is no reason to doubt the suicide story.

I find it a constant source of amusement that whenever their is a conflict between Thais and Farang, that a hard core group of expats, people who have run away from home in search of a cheap place to plant their next erection, creates some reason to blame the Thais. It boggles the mind that while these falang see jeopardy in every Thai business and public official they continue to remain in Thailand.

Edited June 21, 2011 by tonypace02

[EyesWideOpen]

After all, the only thing i am struggling with is why would someone fly to Thailand to commit suicide? can they not do it back home

They fly because walking is out of the question. Clearly the man was trying to commit suicide unless you think he doused himself with gasoline because he had run out of deoderant.

And Charley, you think you might try reading the whole article before commenting and embarrassing yourself? The article said he was in possession of his passport when he was taken into custody. I did not see anything indicating the motorbike renter was taken into custody. Now you can rationalize all kinds of scenarios but the only evidence is what is in the article, unless you know something the rest of us don't.

Who knows what he had in mind. The only thing of any significance is that he poured gasoline on himself. You have to believe that at that moment all rational thinking is gone. There being no evidence of antipathy by the police, there is no reason to doubt the suicide story.

I find it a constant source of amusement that whenever their is a conflict between Thais and Farang, that a hard core group of expats, people who have run away from home in search of a cheap place to plant their next erection, creates some reason to blame the Thais. It boggles the mind that while these falang see jeopardy in every Thai business and public official they continue to remain in Thailand.

Give the staggering number of farangs who come to their death here, either physical or financial, perhaps seeing jeopardy here here is an astute move...... Reading the article, seems only the owner of the rental business is saying the Russian guy poured gas on himself to light himself on fire. As the owner has every reason to lie to try to get himself out of a storm of bad press, I certainly would not stake my life on his version of events........ As to what happened in jail, who knows. However it does seem to me that a lot of people meet their end while in jail. Maybe I should not read the news here so much, and put my rose colored glasses back on...........

[hawker9000]

People actually surrender their passport willingly? Just to rent a motorbike? You've got to be kidding.

[zhaffsky]

People actually surrender their passport willingly? Just to rent a motorbike? You've got to be kidding.

Alas, many Russians do that. On Koh Samui they take your driver license though...

Edited June 21, 2011 by zhaffsky

[andrew55]

Please Dr. Phil , do enlighten me what my other struggles are.?

Yep, as always another "suicide" but this time IN police station. I wonder if the foreign suicide will ever stop in Thailand.

After all, the only thing i am struggling with is why would someone fly to Thailand to commit suicide? can they not do it back home

This may not be your only struggle, but you made me laugh

I gotta go with Dr Phil here mate.

Am I correct in assuming that your quotation marks (ie "suicide") mean that you are sceptical of this tragedy being suicide? Why would you think this? Also, your idea about people planning where and when to suicide (Hmm - June in Phuket'd be nice)might be less common than you think.

Suicide seems such a waste. Families never come to terms with it - car accident ok. Disease ok. Even war. Not suicide. It's just wrong.

Imaginable that this guy was suffering depression generally (a chronic thing). Easy to go 'down' with too much booze etc. Hassle with a bike. Confusion about passport. Locked in solitary in Thailand... old mate wasn't having a positive sort of a day. Life couldn't get lower. That's called acute depression. Not a nice place. He chose to call it a day in his agony. So sad.

Certainly seems irresponsible that as someone who'd already been threatining suicide he was left unsupervised after arrest. Wouldn't hospital under sedation have been more appropriate until embassy, family etc contacted?

ps - Dr Phil can be a little harsh sometimes.

[andrew55]

By all accounts Russians would fit in perfectly in my village, many start the day with a bottle of Lao washed down with a Red Bull.

Your Lao comes in bottles? Cool.

[andrew55]

There are so many wonderful insights provided by the responders here. Obviously many have nothing better to do than theorise and provide unfounded conjecture as to what may, or may not have happened - then leap into digressive speculation about what they may, or may not know about the national habits of people from a country they have only heard about.

Can you say that again please. I didn't get the bit after your opening qoutation mark.

[naiharn]

People actually surrender their passport willingly? Just to rent a motorbike? You've got to be kidding.

On a recent trip, I tried to rent a motorbike in Kata without leaving my passport. At one place, the owner opened the draw of his flimsy little desk and pulled out about 30 passports to show me that that was the only way he did business.

So yes, people do surrender their passports. Whether it's willingly or not is another matter.

On that trip I managed to find someone who rented me a bike while keeping only a copy of my passport.

Another time at Patong I simply could not find anyone who would rent me a bike without keeping my passport.

Once Sirchai gets back to me on my previous question, that problem will be solved!

[devdrinker]

@laurentbkk

From the same post:

Russians dont drink more than any body else

yes they might drink a bit more than others

Which is it then?

[princessa]

Once a friend of mine guested in a Russian village. He couldn't manage to stay there a planned week and left after 4 days. The reason was alcohol abuse by the locals. For 4 days he did not see a single sober face. They drink really hard guys.

Lol, I've seen this topic in my e-mail newsletter and clicked the link immediately.

Only one question so far - why did your friend go to the Russian village without consulting any other Russians first?

and he could cope with lack of very basic utilities like water heating and decent electricity that would be natural in a poverty struck area, but couldn't make it through drinking?

Russians DO drink quite a lot compared to other nations, plus 420 is strictly banned here, with penalties no being much different from heavy drugs, the legal drinking age is also pretty low (and in lots of cases, parents don't give a shit about their kids getting drunk, they'd be more worried if kids don't get wasted probably).

Imagine a Siberian Tennessee, except booze is dirt cheap and other relaxing substances aren't available at all.

Does not apply to all of Russia, by all means, but the villages here are getting on the edge of extinction. People who can work and have their brains in place move out to larger towns or cities.

Laughed irl at Russian tourists in Dubai story - know that crowd, hate that crowd.

[Lovedog100]

"He may have had a problem with another rental outfit and got confused," said the operator.

Got confused eh ? how come you DID have his passport ?????.....

"Arguments between motorbike rental operators and their clients are a common source of problems in the Phuket tourism industry."

Yeah because they keep trying to scam the tourists !!!

RIP the Russian guy, not saying he was blameless in all this but its still a terrible wasts of a life.

You read it the same as I did at first but re-read it and the Russian had his own passport. And with the smell of alcohol he probably was pretty drunk.

The Russian poured gasoline all over himself, yet smelled of alcohol?? Something smells fishy to me.

[evanson]

Typically the motor bike scam involves a tourist renting a bike and having to leave his or her passport with the rental agency as a deposit for the bike. Then when the bike is returned to the agency scratches or other faults are pointed out and a huge sum of money is required to cover the damage. The other and crueller version of the scam involves someone from the rental agency turning up at the renters hotel in the wee small hours with a duplicate set of keys and taking the vehicle back... then the renter has to report the bike as stolen... the so called insurance is useless and they have to pay to replace the bike before they get their passport back

Thanks for the valuable insight. So how should one protect oneself? Renting from more reputable operators (assuming one exists )

Well, One should protect Oneself by not renting an uninsured motorbike from a motorcycle operator in the first place. Which not One exists.

One should buy a cheap Honda Dream, with attached samlor, if One has wife/kids,and up One's travel insurance. I realise the procuring of such vehicle would take some time out of One's holiday arrangements. However, One just off the boat, so to speak, should have availed themselves of the wide variety of information on this subject before One disembarks.

One should also understand that this, despite the many glazed faceted highrise buildings shown in glossy tourist brochures, is a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.

[scorpio]

Yep, as always another "suicide" but this time IN police station. I wonder if the foreign suicide will ever stop in Thailand.

After all, the only thing i am struggling with is why would someone fly to Thailand to commit suicide? can they not do it back home

i personally do not think he committed suicide !!! but thats my view on things , im thinking that a majority of us are thinking the same ? when are the scams going to stop ? thailand is only hurting its own tourism industry for all this s**t they are dishing out to tourist and ex pats ref visa regulations, scams, etc etc etc

[Thongkorn]

why is it such a big deal with passport anyway? if one doesn't have enough money to pay for crashed bike, it is always an option to

a) get money from abroad with WU or whatever;

just claim passport as lost, get a temporary ID and go back home in peace. Well there's a chance to get blacklisted, but that's not the same as a suicide and Thailand is not the only tourist country in the world.

Because it is illigal for any Airline to let anyone board a plane without a passport. And if you have no money how do you get a new passport.

[andrew55]

Because it is illigal for any Airline to let anyone board a plane without a passport..

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