Thai Buddhism May Not Be What You Expect

[connda]

I had some specific conceptions (or perhaps misconceptions) of what Buddhism was (or wasn’t) in Thailand when I first arrived. Those have been pretty well shaken to the core.

I’ll make a very general statement that no one necessarily needs to agree with me on. As a Westerner, your concepts of Buddhism will probably me more aligned to one of the Thai Forest Sangha. I personally see an over-emphasis on the concept of money, the use of money, and what looks to be a disregard for the Vinyana in the city based traditions. Maybe I’m just a stupid Farang – but I don’t think so. I believe you may find a more disciplined approach to seeking an end to suffering within the confines of the Forest Tradition.

[rockyysdt]

Perhaps this is because, until enlightened, all practitioners of Buddhism are subject to the human condition..

Of course, excepting those in different realms.

Edited June 21, 2011 by rockyysdt

[Brucenkhamen]

This is a normal reaction for westerners who have either learned about Buddhism from books and developed an understanding of it's ideals, or have practised it in the west and come to an understanding of what Buddhist practise is, or even only have a superficial idea of Buddhism gained from the media.

Thailand is a culture shock.

[TongueThaied]

Okay, I have lived here several years. During the first few years, I tried to figure it out, because things just didn't seem to add up. I have heard different ideas about Thai Buddhism, have studied it, and have heard many times the farangs just don't understand, yada, yada, yada. I tried to make the connections. I speak a little Thai and have a lot of Thai friends that I have questioned intensely, some devout, some not so devout. I have arrived at a conclusion.

Let's call a spade a spade. "Buddhism" is only a label applied to what is practiced here. Gotta give it a name, right? What they practice here is mostly animism and is very mystical. Very few Thais even have any idea whatsoever what the chanting they have heard thousands of times means. The chants are in the Pali language. If any of you Catholics out there are old enough to remember Mass before Vatican Two, did you understand the Latin? No, I didn't think so. Also, remember, it is a very strong part of Thai culture to NOT question things. Children are taught at a young age to NEVER ask why; it is considered rude (this, alone, should explain a lot to you).

Bottom line is, if the Lord Buddha could come back here and have a look, he would recognize absolutely nothing (but then neither Jesus nor Mohammed would recognize the practices going on in their respective names either.). In fact, there was ZERO mysticism in what the Lord Buddha taught; it was a philosophy. There was no "praying" and no "faith." There are none but a few intellectuals here that practice anything close to what he taught. So just accept that despite what people may tell you, there is little to no "Buddhism" here. It's what it is. It is as good as any other religion.

And yeah, I know, I'm a farang, I just don't get it and probably won't last much longer here with my attitude. Whatever.

[montrii]

Yes, the forest tradition is pretty much where it's at, if we're talking about core Buddhist attitudes and beliefs. There are a lot of very wise monks in that tradition--and in others, too, you just have to look deep.

One has to keep in mind that in this area of the world, historically, animism came first, then Hinduism, then the Hinduism became overlaid with Buddhism, and finally Buddhism became dominant. But--and this is part of the inclusiveness of Buddhism, which I find admirable--the other layers never disappeared. And common people the world over gravitate towards the superficial in religion, so it was natural that here the temple would become a place where the superficial was celebrated. This is why you will find monks performing healing and excoricism rites, and handing out lucky numbers for the lottery. These things have actually added to the charm and pageantry of the Thai Buddhist tradition, but they can be pretty off-putting for someone coming here in hopes that this religion will give answers where others don't. The fact is that any time you're looking for spiritual depth, you have to look deep. I love the Taoteching, but Taoism as practiced is more a religion of magic than of spirituality. Same with the Buddhism here. But seek and ye shall find, to paraphrase an ancient teacher from the land of Palestine. The good stuff is here to be found.

[RickThai]

I'm not sure how Buddhism in Thailand is different from any other religion in any other part of the world. I know in Italy, Catholic priests, bless possessions, and I don't know of any Christian/Jewish religion where the pastors/rabbis, etc. don't accept money for their services. I don't think that is necessarily wrong. Thailand tries to preserve many aspects of the Buddhist faith, (eating one meal a day, accepting food donations, etc, but everything costs money, and temples don't build themselves, nor do monks clothe themselves for free. Just a fact of life in the present time.

RickThai

[sabaijai]

I count myself as a fan of the Thai forest tradition, but there are many approaches to Buddhism in Thailand, and quite a few monastic teachers outside the forest tradition who are admirable.

[IMA_FARANG]

We all have preconceptions...whether about Buddhisim in Thailand, or some other "religion" elsewhere. We shouldn't forget that religion is a human occupation and therefore only be "staffed" by humans not Buddhas.

I imagine within a hundred years of the first Buddhists there were those who called themselves "true Buddhistd" railing against the "degeneration" of "true Buddhism" in "these later days".

In my opinion, none of that is valid. Buddhisim is and aleays has been in your own heart and mind. It hasn't been any different since Buddhisim began, and I don't expect it to be any different in the future either.

If you wish to call yourself a Buddhist, that's you're personal choice. How you choose to display this choice to others is also you're personal choice.

For that reason, don't censure others, censure yourself first, and follow the way you feel to be correct.

It's always been that way, there is no easy solution.

[Jawnie]

Thai Buddhism is only one form of Buddhism and certainly doesn't reflect the full range of the Buddha's teachings or practices. Still, if one were to follow the Thai form, one should expect a good result. Thais becoming monks for a few months or a couple of years because it is expected of them isn't the greatest of intentions. It's sort of similar to Mormons who expect all men be serve as missionaries for two years. It makes for good citizens but do they really embody the teachings of their respective traditions?

I can imagine it is very difficult for a young Thai man to join the Sangha while living in Bangkok. It's probably pretty hard to calm the mind and draw the senses inward in such a sensuous and distracting environment. I think this is the reason the Vajrayana form of Buddhism has become more widely practiced, it has means within it to help individuals deal directly with urban life. Yeah, the forest is probably a better place to pursuit a real interest in Buddhist practice in Thailand. It's pretty off-putting to go to a wat and find the woman who prepares the flower offerings smoking over them; or the monk giving the blessings in the wat keeping his pack of cigarettes on the table with his blessing stuff. I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle trying to achieve real renunciation under such circumstances.

[rockyysdt]

Thai Buddhism is only one form of Buddhism and certainly doesn't reflect the full range of the Buddha's teachings or practices. Still, if one were to follow the Thai form, one should expect a good result. Thais becoming monks for a few months or a couple of years because it is expected of them isn't the greatest of intentions. It's sort of similar to Mormons who expect all men be serve as missionaries for two years. It makes for good citizens but do they really embody the teachings of their respective traditions?

I can imagine it is very difficult for a young Thai man to join the Sangha while living in Bangkok. It's probably pretty hard to calm the mind and draw the senses inward in such a sensuous and distracting environment. I think this is the reason the Vajrayana form of Buddhism has become more widely practiced, it has means within it to help individuals deal directly with urban life. Yeah, the forest is probably a better place to pursuit a real interest in Buddhist practice in Thailand. It's pretty off-putting to go to a wat and find the woman who prepares the flower offerings smoking over them; or the monk giving the blessings in the wat keeping his pack of cigarettes on the table with his blessing stuff. I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle trying to achieve real renunciation under such circumstances.

Yes, Bangkok is far from a place where one can escape desire/aversion/delusion.

If a Monk practicing full time in the Forest tradition has trouble becoming enlightened what are the chances of a citizen faced with the challenges of eeking out a living in Bangkok.

Also, what about the Bangkok Ajahn, with split system air con, dvd/television, sound system, microwave, refrigerator, cellphone, double mattress bed, pc/internet, who collects donations directly into his alms bowl for assessing ones future/past through palm reading, and date & day of birth.

Edited June 25, 2011 by rockyysdt

[IMA_FARANG]

If you wish to do a retreat or to actually ordain in Bangkok...don't blame Bangkok for you're failure (if you fail). As anywhere what you make of a retreat or becoming a monk is entirely up to you and your attitude. It's a copout (to use an American term) to blame the location if you can't find "peace" in a Buddhist retreat here in Bangkok.

Sure there are a lot of distractions...but there are those everywhere in the world. It's not the enviroment, it's what you make of the enviroment that makes the difference.

You can become just as (I hate this word) "spiritual" in Bangkok as you can in a Thai forest tradition Wat. It's not the location, it's your attitude that determines what you make of the experience.

Don't construe this as criticism. I'm just stating that what anyone makes out of a Bddhist retreat or studying Buddhisim is a personal thing. It has always been like that.

No one can "give" you Buddhisim, you have to get it for yourself. I expect that would be one of the first things that you would probably have to learn even in a Thai forest tradition Wat as a novice.

If you want to come to Thailand to study Buddhisim here, then do it. But don't blame the location if you fail to find what you expected or wanted.

I'll say it again, your results are up to you and your attitude.

Buddhisim is not a "day trip".

:jap:

Edited June 25, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[Jawnie]

If you wish to do a retreat or to actually ordain in Bangkok...don't blame Bangkok for you're failure (if you fail). As anywhere what you make of a retreat or becoming a monk is entirely up to you and your attitude. It's a copout (to use an American term) to blame the location if you can't find "peace" in a Buddhist retreat here in Bangkok.

Sure there are a lot of distractions...but there are those everywhere in the world. It's not the enviroment, it's what you make of the enviroment that makes the difference.

You can become just as (I hate this word) "spiritual" in Bangkok as you can in a Thai forest tradition Wat. It's not the location, it's your attitude that determines what you make of the experience.

Don't construe this as criticism. I'm just stating that what anyone makes out of a Bddhist retreat or studying Buddhisim is a personal thing. It has always been like that.

No one can "give" you Buddhisim, you have to get it for yourself. I expect that would be one of the first things that you would probably have to learn even in a Thai forest tradition Wat as a novice.

If you want to come to Thailand to study Buddhisim here, then do it. But don't blame the location if you fail to find what you expected or wanted.

I'll say it again, your results are up to you and your attitude.

Buddhisim is not a "day trip".

:jap:

Easier said than done, my friend.

[Brucenkhamen]

You can become just as (I hate this word) "spiritual" in Bangkok as you can in a Thai forest tradition Wat. It's not the location, it's your attitude that determines what you make of the experience.

I agree with this. However one of the main purposes of retreats or forest wats is to prepare you so that you have the presence of mind that you can take anywhere, that won't be rattled so much by a place like Bangkok.

[rockyysdt]

You can become just as (I hate this word) "spiritual" in Bangkok as you can in a Thai forest tradition Wat. It's not the location, it's your attitude that determines what you make of the experience.

I agree with this. However one of the main purposes of retreats or forest wats is to prepare you so that you have the presence of mind that you can take anywhere, that won't be rattled so much by a place like Bangkok.

Bangkok and indeed any large city can quickly remove ones presence of mind.

[rockyysdt]

Sure there are a lot of distractions...but there are those everywhere in the world. It's not the enviroment, it's what you make of the enviroment that makes the difference.

You can become just as (I hate this word) "spiritual" in Bangkok as you can in a Thai forest tradition Wat. It's not the location, it's your attitude that determines what you make of the experience.

Bangkok is only an example of any large world city capable of immense distraction.

There are countless objects, carefully crafted over millennia, designed to stimulate our greed/aversion/delusion.

Some so subtle we delude ourselves into thinking that we are traveling well.

Just as a young boy, influenced by bad company, can go astray, so can we lose our way or at the very least are left with limited resource, when bombarded with distraction.

Yes, it is up to us, but as unenlightened beings, we are all exposed.

Those fortunate enough to remain steadfast are few.

A Monk of many years recently indicated that isolation in the forest allows him to practice to states of very fine awareness which are needed to progress through the four tetrads of anapanasati.

Another practitioner of forty years confided that nine years of deep experience in a Thai forest retreat unraveled within three days in Bangkok.

[oftey]

Are there any good english language books or movies about the forest tradition? I've read the book "The Buddha in the Jungle" by Kamala Tiyavanich, which is an interesting collection of stories. Anything else?

[Brucenkhamen]

Bangkok and indeed any large city can quickly remove ones presence of mind.

The point is, don't blame it on Bangkok.

[bankei]

I used to admire the so called forest tradition many years ago. More than 20 years ago I went up to Wat Pa Nanachat hoping to ordain, but I was quickly put off by the attitude of the monks there. Many have strange attitudes for Buddhists. Huge egos and attachment to their interpretations and practice of vinaya by the book. Totally lacking in the spirit of the teachings.

Now the Forest tradition, especially that of the Chah sect, is a vast global corporation with huge wealth and control. Ascetic monks fly around the globe for meetings with their only concern being whether they can eat their airline meal because of the change in time zones.

For me the local money handling monks are much better exemplars of the Buddhas teachings

Bankei

[Xangsamhua]

Are there any good english language books or movies about the forest tradition? I've read the book "The Buddha in the Jungle" by Kamala Tiyavanich, which is an interesting collection of stories. Anything else?

"Forest Recollections: Wandering Monks in Twentieth -Century Thailand", Kamala Tiyanavich. Silkworm 1997.

[Xangsamhua]

The tudong forest tradition was a product of an age when there were extensive forests. It is a thing of the past. And solitary forms of sitting meditation reflect just one form of striving for enlightenment - the yogic dimension in Buddhism.

I would think it could be practised in the midst of a big, noisy city, if supportive conditions were provided, but the advantage of the forest for the old tudong monks was that it cut them loose from the sterile scholasticism and uniformity of the centralizing Bangkok-based Sangha.

[connda]

Are there any good english language books or movies about the forest tradition? I've read the book "The Buddha in the Jungle" by Kamala Tiyavanich, which is an interesting collection of stories. Anything else?

Being Dharma: The Essence of the Buddha's Teachings

Ajahn Chah

Translated by Paul Breiter

What I like about this set of tranlated discourses is that Ajahn Chah brings the complexities of Buddhist philosophy down to the level that can be understood equally by a poor, superstitious Issan rice farmer as well as a somewhat self-centered, consumer-driven American (like myself). And it's done with humor and compassion, but also with a constant admonishment to "get to work". It can be read from cover to cover, or just open a page and start reading. I highly recommend it.

[rockyysdt]

I used to admire the so called forest tradition many years ago. More than 20 years ago I went up to Wat Pa Nanachat hoping to ordain, but I was quickly put off by the attitude of the monks there. Many have strange attitudes for Buddhists. Huge egos and attachment to their interpretations and practice of vinaya by the book. Totally lacking in the spirit of the teachings.

Now the Forest tradition, especially that of the Chah sect, is a vast global corporation with huge wealth and control. Ascetic monks fly around the globe for meetings with their only concern being whether they can eat their airline meal because of the change in time zones.

For me the local money handling monks are much better exemplars of the Buddhas teachings

Bankei

A western Monk I met, whose current assignment with a Thai Forest Monastery has reached 20 years, confided that he doesn't necessarily agree with everything taught.

He continues to network to some extent on the internet and through literature in his journey, whilst making use of the Monastic setting to further his practice.

This includes security, living quarters, regular alms food, supplies, peaceful setting, medical assistance, and opportunity to mentor others (loving kindness).

I share your experiences regarding attachment & interpretation.

A recent stay revealed the loving kindness expressed by a nun towards mosquitoes.

That to freely offer your blood to a mosquito was an act of loving.

Any thought of exposure to debilitating disease didn't seem to be an issue.

On the positive side she indicated that an assignment to an American Sangha for a year revealed how narrow her life experience was.

Another lay woman rejected my gift, an act of loving kindness, expressing that money is better as they could then decide how best to use the resource. She felt that my offering was inappropriate and would not be acceptable by those in charge is it was not in keeping with tradition. My mindfulness quickly revealed a feeling of personal rejection, and of a person who felt her decisions were aligned with that of the Ajahn.

To my ego it was like a Monk rejecting my offer of food on an alms round.

After being mindful of the reactions going through my body and mind l decided to let go.

Attachment to the meaning of what had happened would fuel my aversion.

Edited June 26, 2011 by rockyysdt

[Xangsamhua]

I share your experiences regarding attachment & interpretation.

A recent stay revealed the loving kindness expressed by a nun towards mosquitoes.

That to freely offer your blood to a mosquito was an act of loving.

Any thought of exposure to debilitating disease didn't seem to be an issue.

On the positive side she indicated that an assignment to an American Sangha for a year revealed how narrow her life experience was.

Another lay woman rejected my gift, an act of loving kindness, expressing that money is better as they could then decide how best to use the resource. She felt that my offering was inappropriate and would not be acceptable by those in charge is it was not in keeping with tradition. My mindfulness quickly revealed a feeling of personal rejection, and of a person who felt her decisions were aligned with that of the Ajahn.

To my ego it was like a Monk rejecting my offer of food on an alms round.

After being mindful of the reactions going through my body and mind l decided to let go.

Attachment to the meaning of what had happened would fuel my aversion.

I wonder what Thai Buddhism would be like if the monks got off their pedestals and started relating to the laity in a more natural, respectful and egalitarian manner.

Perhaps they could start by ceasing the alms-round and accepting only donations to the wat, rather than to individual monks. Then they could cook for themselves, and if necessary they could grow their own vegetables (but that would be against the Thai pattimokha, wouldn't it).

Not having midle-aged/elderly female intermediaries/gatekeepers - rather like the well-intended but busybody ladies one finds in Christian parishes in the West - might not be a bad thing, too.

At present the Thai sangha both reflects and encourages the childlike status of the ordinary Thai person in relation to his or her seniors and patrons. These relationships, though longstanding, are no more guaranteed of permanency than anything else, and the sangha would be wise to consider that.

PS. The blood-sacrificing nun reminds me of these:

"Emerentiana, a Roman virgin and the foster-sister of the blessed Agnes, while she was still a Catechumen, burning with faith and charity, rebuked the idol-worshippers who were full of fury against the Christians, whereupon a mob assembled and stoned her. Praying in her torment at the grave of Saint Agnes, and having been baptized in her own blood, so generously shed for Christ, she gave up her soul unto God" (Matins, Jan. 23rd).

St. Mary Magdalen de Pazzi exclaimed on one occasion when in ecstasy: "Every time a creature offers up this Blood by which he was redeemed, he offers a gift of infinite worth, which can be equaled by no other!" God revealed to this sainted Carmelite nun the practice of making this offering when He complained to her that so little effort is made in this world to disarm His Divine justice against sinners. Acting upon this admonition, she daily offered the Precious Blood fifty times for the living and the dead. She did this with so much fervor that God showed her on different occasions the numerous souls whose conversion she had brought about in this manner and all the Poor Souls she had delivered from Purgatory. "This devotion," says Longius, "is pleasing to God, because He is thereby honored by the best and the most sublime gifts."

Apologies for any offense given. I don't really like to criticize Thai Buddhism any more, but Rocky's experience set me off.

[oftey]

Are there any good english language books or movies about the forest tradition? I've read the book "The Buddha in the Jungle" by Kamala Tiyavanich, which is an interesting collection of stories. Anything else?

Being Dharma: The Essence of the Buddha's Teachings

Ajahn Chah

Translated by Paul Breiter

What I like about this set of tranlated discourses is that Ajahn Chah brings the complexities of Buddhist philosophy down to the level that can be understood equally by a poor, superstitious Issan rice farmer as well as a somewhat self-centered, consumer-driven American (like myself). And it's done with humor and compassion, but also with a constant admonishment to "get to work". It can be read from cover to cover, or just open a page and start reading. I highly recommend it.

My wife saw someone on TV talking about Ajahn Chah just this morning. I'll definitely check this out. Also thanks to Xangsamhua for the suggestion. "Forest Recollections" should give me a good idea of what life was like for these wandering monks, and Ajahn Chan's book will give me more insight into the teachings. Just what I was looking for, thanks for the recommendations!

[Brucenkhamen]

Now the Forest tradition, especially that of the Chah sect, is a vast global corporation with huge wealth and control. Ascetic monks fly around the globe for meetings with their only concern being whether they can eat their airline meal because of the change in time zones.

Hardly a global corporation when every monastery is controlled financially by the local lay people.

Sure the charitable organisations that sponsor them own large plots of land, but they've still got light years to go to catch up to the catholic church.

Sure the senior monks have to travel a lot, but that's nothing like sunning it on the riviera or weekends in vegas.

[rockyysdt]

Sure the senior monks have to travel a lot, but that's nothing like sunning it on the riviera or weekends in vegas.

In Thai terms though, any international travel is more than equivalent.

The 54 year old cab driver I chatted with has never flown in his life, even from Bangkok to Udon Thani using Nok Air.

He said he just can't afford it.

[fabianfred]

I wonder what Thai Buddhism would be like if the monks got off their pedestals and started relating to the laity in a more natural, respectful and egalitarian manner.

Perhaps they could start by ceasing the alms-round and accepting only donations to the wat, rather than to individual monks. Then they could cook for themselves, and if necessary they could grow their own vegetables (but that would be against the Thai pattimokha, wouldn't it).

Not having midle-aged/elderly female intermediaries/gatekeepers - rather like the well-intended but busybody ladies one finds in Christian parishes in the West - might not be a bad thing, too.

At present the Thai sangha both reflects and encourages the childlike status of the ordinary Thai person in relation to his or her seniors and patrons. These relationships, though longstanding, are no more guaranteed of permanency than anything else, and the sangha would be wise to consider that.

One reason Buddhism died out in India was because the monks distanced themselves from the lay-followers, not going out on alms-round etc., so when the lays were attacked by Hindu/Brahmins they did not have much heart and feeling of support.

In my temple, the only two monks out of nine (including the Abbot) who go on alms-round are myself and the other Farang monk from New Zealand. The Thai monks just wait for offerings to be brought in by faithful followers, and some of those like to give to specific monks instead of the Sangha as a whole... The Thai novices go out mostly unless they have duties...or it rains...

No wonder the Thai monks and Novices distance themselves from us two.

We practice Vipassana meditation and they prefer to learn chanting....very useful when they get invited to house-warmings and funerals....and get buckets and envelopes.

When lays come in with offerings for a special occasion such as a birthday it is funny to watch the Thai monks scrabble to be the one who receives and gives a nice long blessing. Then the goodies and envelopes disappear into their rooms instead of getting shared out amongst the community...

[rockyysdt]

In my temple, the only two monks out of nine (including the Abbot) who go on alms-round are myself and the other Farang monk from New Zealand.

Hi Fred.

Just a side issue.

When you do your alms rounds, how do you go about ensuring you don't over impose on a few generous locals?

My concern, if I was a Monk, would be that l was a burden on poor but generous at heart.

I'd imagine you'd spread your walks over a number of areas.

The Thai monks just wait for offerings to be brought in by faithful followers, and some of those like to give to specific monks instead of the Sangha as a whole.

We practice Vipassana meditation and they prefer to learn chanting....very useful when they get invited to house-warmings and funerals....and get buckets and envelopes.

When lays come in with offerings for a special occasion such as a birthday it is funny to watch the Thai monks scrabble to be the one who receives and gives a nice long blessing. Then the goodies and envelopes disappear into their rooms instead of getting shared out amongst the community.

This conjures up images of great karmic cultivation.

Given the teachings and spirit of Buddhism, why do you think such behavior is occurring?

Edited June 27, 2011 by rockyysdt

[fabianfred]

In my temple, the only two monks out of nine (including the Abbot) who go on alms-round are myself and the other Farang monk from New Zealand.

Hi Fred.

Just a side issue.

When you do your alms rounds, how do you go about ensuring you don't over impose on a few generous locals?

My concern, if I was a Monk, would be that l was a burden on poor but generous at heart.

I'd imagine you'd spread your walks over a number of areas.

The Thai monks just wait for offerings to be brought in by faithful followers, and some of those like to give to specific monks instead of the Sangha as a whole.

We practice Vipassana meditation and they prefer to learn chanting....very useful when they get invited to house-warmings and funerals....and get buckets and envelopes.

When lays come in with offerings for a special occasion such as a birthday it is funny to watch the Thai monks scrabble to be the one who receives and gives a nice long blessing. Then the goodies and envelopes disappear into their rooms instead of getting shared out amongst the community.

This conjures up images of great karmic cultivation.

Given the teachings and spirit of Buddhism, why do you think such behavior is occurring?

We have different routes around the area allocated to individuals or pairs of Novices. The route myself and my fellow Farang monk take is the longest. We go along the main road to a far market place, making sure we leave at the same time each day. Only sickness stops us going, not rain. So as to allow the locals to know that we will be there without fail at a certain time of day.

We go on Bindhabaht....showing compassion for all beings....not asking...just making our presence felt and giving them the opportunity to make merit by giving. We have several regulars who give every day, especially stall owners at the market place. Also there are casual opportunists who spot us whilst shopping, and others who prepare stuff and pull off the road in their vehicles ahead of us walking out or back to wait and offer. We chant the same blessing to all, whether they give a little or a lot. Some have started to gain faith and attend weekly chanting on Buddha days at our temple after becoming regular donors to us.

Alms-round is definately the one thing which should never stop.

As far as the Thai monks going for the easy option....laziness is there in all of us. It requires commitment and effort to overcome the defilements. If they learned from teachers who were slack and didn't stress the importance of attaining the safety of Stream-entry in this very life...then they will teach others the same, and be a poor example which others who are lazy will quickly follow.

[rockyysdt]

We have different routes around the area allocated to individuals or pairs of Novices. The route myself and my fellow Farang monk take is the longest. We go along the main road to a far market place, making sure we leave at the same time each day. Only sickness stops us going, not rain. So as to allow the locals to know that we will be there without fail at a certain time of day.

We go on Bindhabaht....showing compassion for all beings....not asking...just making our presence felt and giving them the opportunity to make merit by giving. We have several regulars who give every day, especially stall owners at the market place. Also there are casual opportunists who spot us whilst shopping, and others who prepare stuff and pull off the road in their vehicles ahead of us walking out or back to wait and offer. We chant the same blessing to all, whether they give a little or a lot. Some have started to gain faith and attend weekly chanting on Buddha days at our temple after becoming regular donors to us.

Alms-round is definately the one thing which should never stop.

I have great respect for you Fred.

You have a wonderful heart.

As far as the Thai monks going for the easy option....laziness is there in all of us. It requires commitment and effort to overcome the defilements. If they learned from teachers who were slack and didn't stress the importance of attaining the safety of Stream-entry in this very life...then they will teach others the same, and be a poor example which others who are lazy will quickly follow.

What they do, dressed in cloth, is obviously wrong, even to a child, let alone an Ajahn.

In terms of causing many to lose faith, I'd say their actions go deeper than simple laziness.

Edited June 27, 2011 by rockyysdt