PM Abhisit Asserts Democrat Rally At Ratchaprasong Will Be 'Constructive'

[Thai at Heart]

21:55 @tulsathit

Pro-red TV broadcast Abhisit's speech but used footage of killed protesters to go with it. via @jin_nation

Somehow I think this whole exercise will only confirm people in their existing beliefs, right or wrong. Maybe the undecided will be influenced ?

I don't believe this won't change anyone's opinion of anything. Abhisit should have used the opportunity to admit the failings of the last year, apologise, hilight his successes and then lay out a vision for the future. So far, he hasn't even got to today with his speech, let alone tomorrow or what he is going to do in his next parliament.

For a current PM to lay out what he gonne do in the next term would be the same as admitting that he failed in the previous one,so better to let the people know that current policy's will be extended and warn the people about the wrong choices they could make in the next poll.

He isn't a current generally elected PM in the eyes of many. He didn't get to set out a manifesto and get elected. He was shoe-horned into the poistion.

He is a legitimate creation of a lot of back room deals. So be it. But he should try to set out a vision. He should be an icon, but all the military, PAD, BJT mess drags him down....

Having got there with a coup, the yellows, an election, 2 governments, a dodgy deal in a hotel, the best way for him to succeed would have been to start with....

Our country has problems. Problems of a. b. c. d. e. f. g. And here is where I want our country to be when I finish my second (first) fully elected position of PM.......... He has to offer a vision of where the country will be in 5 years time after he completes his term. It isn't hard to say. Delivering is another issue, which PTP seem not to care one jot about

Edited June 23, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[lannarebirth]

AV: this is the best opportunity ever to eliminate the poison of Thaksin from thailand./ Via@terryfrd

Abhisit: If Yingluck becomes PM, Thaksin will pressure her to pave his way back home, causing her major problem. /Via@tulsathit

AV on to amnesty, saying PT is determined to be deceptive in offering a general amesty in order to free Thaksin. /Via@terryfrd

That might get a few of the Yellows to forego their NO vote.

[themockrat]

I wonder if Abhisit will resort to "planking" at the end of the speech in order to squeeze out a few more votes from fellow plankers.

[janverbeem]

Amazing how fast time flies here. I wasunderthe impression that today is June 23rd and that elections are 2 weeks ahead....how come you can say that Dems lost the elections...

As for the quiet years to come IF PTP = UDD wins,, you must really be out of your mind....

Have we had quiet years under Democrat control? Umm, no. Be honest here. And the whole chaos started with the PAD who were 99% pro-Democrat, followed by an army coup that installed the Democrat government. We've had enough problems in Thailand under this government and you'll see that Thais have also had enough, when the votes start coming in on July 3rd.

You don't need to respect my opinion, and I'm not asking you to. But you'll have no choice but to respect the opinion of Thais on July 3rd.

Weren't it the democrats under Chuan who had the task to rebuild the country from the '97 financial debacle which they didn't create themselves?And I think they did a reasonable good job.

seconded (100%)

And I should have added that the only reason Thaksin won the next election because he promised to spend 77 Billion baht on gifts to the villages,from which the villageheads bought themselve a fortuner.He only forgot to add that those 77 Billion would be paid out of the citizens own pockets.

[Thai at Heart]

Only one question,... is this rally going to continue until tomorrow???

Looks like it. Possibly until July 3rd since Suthep said it would be "the last pit stop" before the election.

looks like he's got more to say yet, got a feeling it will run for some time yet..... will be interesting to see if he managed a gradual creschendo. I think a lot will hinge on whether Mark is able to deliver that tonighht.

Crescendo is coming. Distinct lack of party support around him on stage. Presumably past their bedtime. Poor buggar has to try to drag this party over the finish line on his own.

[jdinasia]

AV: this is the best opportunity ever to eliminate the poison of Thaksin from thailand./ Via@terryfrd

Abhisit: If Yingluck becomes PM, Thaksin will pressure her to pave his way back home, causing her major problem. /Via@tulsathit

AV on to amnesty, saying PT is determined to be deceptive in offering a general amesty in order to free Thaksin. /Via@terryfrd

That might get a few of the Yellows to forego their NO vote.

Yepers ... much of (all of) tonight was to show strength and determination to do good for the country and to show who has so damaged it. The 'swing' vote out there is the decider in this part of the game.

[themockrat]

Only one question,... is this rally going to continue until tomorrow???

Looks like it. Possibly until July 3rd since Suthep said it would be "the last pit stop" before the election.

looks like he's got more to say yet, got a feeling it will run for some time yet..... will be interesting to see if he managed a gradual creschendo. I think a lot will hinge on whether Mark is able to deliver that tonighht.

Crescendo is coming. Distinct lack of party support around him on stage. Presumably past their bedtime. Poor buggar has to try to drag this party over the finish line on his own.

I think I now know why the red shirt channels are showing Abhisit's speech. It's because he's just about finishing Puea Thai's homerun for them.

Abhisit's problem is that he talks too much. He's lost 99% of the viewers back when he started in the first 5 minutes. Now, 99% of viewers are crying because they missed a whole evening of soap operas.

All Puea Thai's Yingluck has to do is smile, wave and win a landslide. No talking needed, no debating.

Edited June 23, 2011 by themockrat

[patjem]

Only one question,... is this rally going to continue until tomorrow???

Looks like it. Possibly until July 3rd since Suthep said it would be "the last pit stop" before the election.

looks like he's got more to say yet, got a feeling it will run for some time yet..... will be interesting to see if he managed a gradual creschendo. I think a lot will hinge on whether Mark is able to deliver that tonighht.

Crescendo is coming. Distinct lack of party support around him on stage. Presumably past their bedtime. Poor buggar has to try to drag this party over the finish line on his own.

Must be watching a different stream to you...... pleasant to see there's no walls of tyres & bamboo being shipped in and set alight: makes a peaceful change for the residents.

[animatic]

Amazing how fast time flies here. I wasunderthe impression that today is June 23rd and that elections are 2 weeks ahead....how come you can say that Dems lost the elections...

As for the quiet years to come IF PTP = UDD wins,, you must really be out of your mind....

Have we had quiet years under Democrat control? Umm, no. Be honest here. And the whole chaos started with the PAD who were 99% pro-Democrat, followed by an army coup that installed the Democrat government. We've had enough problems in Thailand under this government and you'll see that Thais have also had enough, when the votes start coming in on July 3rd.

You don't need to respect my opinion, and I'm not asking you to. But you'll have no choice but to respect the opinion of Thais on July 3rd.

The army coup installed an interim government,

followed by two Pro Thaksin PPP governments.

Try facts, not mock facts.

[Thai at Heart]

21:55 @tulsathit

Pro-red TV broadcast Abhisit's speech but used footage of killed protesters to go with it. via @jin_nation

Somehow I think this whole exercise will only confirm people in their existing beliefs, right or wrong. Maybe the undecided will be influenced ?

I don't believe this won't change anyone's opinion of anything. Abhisit should have used the opportunity to admit the failings of the last year, apologise, hilight his successes and then lay out a vision for the future. So far, he hasn't even got to today with his speech, let alone tomorrow or what he is going to do in his next parliament.

The 'successes' and 'vision' have been discussed in previous campaign rallies the last weeks. The idea was to counter UDD (i.e. the non-political arm of PTP) lies, half-truths, insinuations, etc. with a more open view of things. K. Suthep was a bit harsh, but that's him. Expect a few articles from UDD leaders, PTP candidates tomorrow and various lawsuits.

Anything is possible. I just look at it all like a half assed effort at acting like the PAD. I don't care if Suthep was harsh.

The issue is that he apparently made his speech and is now not even willing to stand next to the party leader at the end of the night.(if it happens I stand corrected) This Democrat bunch is extremely disjointed and beyond Abhisit and Korn just as self interested as any other party. The hardcore Dems have power in their constituencies, and the somehow expect Abhisit to magically give the Dems nationwide favourability. The weakness in the Dems is the old guard, maybe Chuan excepted, and he is as clean as most but he isn't spotless. The rest try to maintain some respectability, but it doesn't wash anymore.

It is ludicrous to sit there with 100mn in the bank, but you never obviously worked for it and claim, that the other guy obviously stole his wealth, when it largely came from the same trough.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[janverbeem]

I think I now know why the red shirt channels are showing Abhisit's speech. It's because he's just about finishing Puea Thai's homerun for them.

Abhisit's problem is that he talks too much. He's lost 99% of the viewers back when he started in the first 5 minutes. Now, 99% of viewers are crying because they missed a whole evening of soap operas.

All Puea Thai's Yingluck has to do is smile, wave and win a landslide. No talking needed, no debating.

You might be right about that and I can tell you the reason in a clear language,but then my post will be deleted so i will tell you in a figurative language.

I'm a old ugly chap,and if I go walking street tonight I will have a hard time to find one of those working lady's even wanting to smile at me.Now if throw around a couple of ten thousand bahts tonight,I'm sure i will not be able to make my choice between the superstars who tell me that they love me long time.

[rubl]

...

It is ludicrous to sit there with 100mn in the bank, but you never obviously worked for it and claim, that the other guy obviously stole his wealth, when if largely came from the same trough.

This needs clarification. Who are you talking about here ?

[tominbkk]

I wonder if Abhisit will resort to "planking" at the end of the speech in order to squeeze out a few more votes from fellow plankers.

Leave the planking up to the red yobs....

[rubl]

I think I now know why the red shirt channels are showing Abhisit's speech. It's because he's just about finishing Puea Thai's homerun for them.

Abhisit's problem is that he talks too much. He's lost 99% of the viewers back when he started in the first 5 minutes. Now, 99% of viewers are crying because they missed a whole evening of soap operas.

All Puea Thai's Yingluck has to do is smile, wave and win a landslide. No talking needed, no debating.

The red channel uses the oppertunity to insert their own pictures and soundtrack to confirm by repetition 'this is your enemy, dead people all' around, etc., etc. K. Abhisit could be talking Greek for what they care. The red viewers may be crying realizing their made a wrong choice, doesn't mean those are 99% of the viewers, unless you talk about the red channel only?

It's also very enlighting to read that the PTP PM candidate only needs to smile. In most countries the candidate would be expected to talk

[landofthefree]

[ly 3rd since Suthep said it would be "the last pit stop" before the election.

looks like he's got more to say yet, got a feeling it will run for some time yet..... will be interesting to see if he managed a gradual creschendo. I think a lot will hinge on whether Mark is able to deliver that tonighht.

Crescendo is coming. Distinct lack of party support around him on stage. Presumably past their bedtime. Poor buggar has to try to drag this party over the finish line on his own.

Must be watching a different stream to you...... pleasant to see there's no walls of tyres & bamboo being shipped in and set alight: makes a peaceful change for the residents.

I bet Mr Abhisit and his cronies are gutted that tonight's provocation hasn't led to violence. Looks looks they have just helped Pheu Thai to win the election Som Nam Nar!

[Thai at Heart]

...

It is ludicrous to sit there with 100mn in the bank, but you never obviously worked for it and claim, that the other guy obviously stole his wealth, when if largely came from the same trough.

This needs clarification. Who are you talking about here ?

The old guard of the Dems have fed from the trough just as much as many of the current PTP. Different times, different faces, different opportunities, but I really don't differentiate between any of them that much. They are allied, connected, able to deliver and obtain favours in their local strongholds. That is the nature of business and politics in Thailand.

As a foreigner here in Thailand trying and succeeding to do business in the South and the North, I will wear whatever colour gets me ahead. I do believe the country should find an achieveable way to educate its kids 1000% better and find a way to care for its rural population. Unfortunately, for some of these groups/families they have nailed the flag to a mast, and they have to follow or be cast asunder. They don't hate Thaksin because he is bad, but because he impinges on their chances to make money, likewise the powerbrokers in the red areas act the same.

So it comes down to overall vision for the future. Abhisit is proving to be a complete wet blanket. Thaksin, I won't write more because he will be back in the country in 6 months. How Abhisit has so dismally failed to engage with the people is his failure. I just have to live with it, keep going and get through the RUBL afterwards.

[rubl]

...

It is ludicrous to sit there with 100mn in the bank, but you never obviously worked for it and claim, that the other guy obviously stole his wealth, when if largely came from the same trough.

This needs clarification. Who are you talking about here ?

The old guard of the Dems have fed from the trough just as much as many of the current PTP. Different times, different faces, different opportunities, but I really don't differentiate between any of them that much. They are allied, connected, able to deliver and obtain favours in their local strongholds. That is the nature of business and politics in Thailand.

As a foreigner here in Thailand trying and succeeding to do business in the South and the North, I will wear whatever colour gets me ahead. I do believe the country should find an achieveable way to educate its kids 1000% better and find a way to care for its rural population. Unfortunately, for some of these groups/families they have nailed the flag to a mast, and they have to follow or be cast asunder. They don't hate Thaksin because he is bad, but because he impinges on their chances to make money, likewise the powerbrokers in the red areas act the same.

So it comes down to overall vision for the future. Abhisit is proving to be a complete wet blanket. Thaksin, I won't write more because he will be back in the country in 6 months. How Abhisit has so dismally failed to engage with the people is his failure. I just have to live with it, keep going and get through the RUBL afterwards.

You didn't answer my question, but thanks for spelling my member name correctly

[hanuman1]

I'm just wondering if any of the possible violence by unknown people as forecasted by red leaders has materialized yet.

[janverbeem]

. Thaksin, I won't write more because he will be back in the country in 6 months.

I have to agrre with you on that,however I have the genuine feeling that he will not live to enjoy his victory.

[MrChangers]

Abhisit: If I had my own Bt46 billion, I would have given it to Thaksin now and told him to stop hurting Thailand.

Everyone that believes it, please stand up now.

I seemed to be glued to my chair

[rubl]

I'm just wondering if any of the possible violence by unknown people as forecasted by red leaders has materialized yet.

YES, but location changed to TV forum

[huanga]

You should advise him to take example from Yingluck's outstanding speeches....

I hope you're sarcastic. What speeches by Yingluck were inspiring?? The only things I heard were her shouting out figures to her red supporters. Just like how her brothers used to toss $ to gather an audience.

Blinded by the......

Just thanks God I am not a Thai and it's not my country to see down the toilet... I agree this election is to pick a lesser of two evils, but, no matter what, how can a Thai or any Thai trust his/her country to someone who just hasn't had any experience as a public servant. Learn on the job??? With almost 70 million people's livelihood on good look? For 4 years? If it's to pick a lesser of two evils, I will still bet on someone who at least in the past two years has shown that he could at least handle some hairy situations. Good of bad handling but at least he handled it.

My two cents. God bless Thai and please wake up.

[Thai at Heart]

...

It is ludicrous to sit there with 100mn in the bank, but you never obviously worked for it and claim, that the other guy obviously stole his wealth, when if largely came from the same trough.

This needs clarification. Who are you talking about here ?

The old guard of the Dems have fed from the trough just as much as many of the current PTP. Different times, different faces, different opportunities, but I really don't differentiate between any of them that much. They are allied, connected, able to deliver and obtain favours in their local strongholds. That is the nature of business and politics in Thailand.

As a foreigner here in Thailand trying and succeeding to do business in the South and the North, I will wear whatever colour gets me ahead. I do believe the country should find an achieveable way to educate its kids 1000% better and find a way to care for its rural population. Unfortunately, for some of these groups/families they have nailed the flag to a mast, and they have to follow or be cast asunder. They don't hate Thaksin because he is bad, but because he impinges on their chances to make money, likewise the powerbrokers in the red areas act the same.

So it comes down to overall vision for the future. Abhisit is proving to be a complete wet blanket. Thaksin, I won't write more because he will be back in the country in 6 months. How Abhisit has so dismally failed to engage with the people is his failure. I just have to live with it, keep going and get through the RUBL afterwards.

You didn't answer my question, but thanks for spelling my member name correctly

As to specifics, if I put a number, meaning that I knew exactly how much a given member of the upper echelons of the Dems had in an account, I would believe on average it was a gross underestimation.

Thus, it doesn't really wash to point a finger at an opponent and say, he stole his cash, when everyone (deep down inside)around you knows that your unusually large wealth didn't come legitimately either. None of these guys are better than the other. Their power comes from delivering votes. Who knows, maybe Suthep changes sides if it gets him a place at the top table a la Newin! How much would it cost? 100mnbht , 200mnbht, 1 bnbht??? 300 mn dollars to deliver the South of Thailand? Principles end when you leave your napkin on the table as they say.

[MrChangers]

your in for a wild awakening if you really believe things will return to normality if red thugs win unless you mean for here its normal for Taksin to loot burn and destroy. My wife asked why weve accelerated process of taking our assets out of thailand instead of waiting for result and what we cant get out using various channels were getting gold fast. So not to frighten her more than she is anyway I told her wed have a few years before things got really nasty. Im beginning to think it might be much quicker than a few years and that if red thugs win day a number of our assets will depreciate quite quickly. Luckely their are an umber of buyers who believe it will be ok and normal soon. when they ask why were selling cheap i tell them truth because I think its going to go down pan and im happy to take a 10-20% drop. Sad days ahead im sure of it

Mrs Changers wants to know what you are flogging at 20 % discount, of course your inflated figure will have to pass the "Mrs Changers prudent fiscal policy" but bags first dabs

[eeconomist]

Are they done talking?

[rubl]

Are they done talking?

Finished about 40 minutes ago, I think. With a 'De-Thaksi-cate' at the end

Edited June 23, 2011 by rubl

[hanuman1]

It seems to me that Abhisit pitched his speech as well as he could have. Trying to cosy up too much with the reds/PTP in pursuit of reconciliation at this stage of the game would have smacked of desperation and done nothing for his loyal followers, whilst at the same time he didn't go to the lengths that Suthep did in his accusations.

The one thing that struck me was that he said all those who died last year were innocent and that (according to Fredrickson's translation) he felt he had done wrong (presumably because of this). It takes serious balls for someone in his position to say that.

It's a shame he might lose the election for issues concerning more entrenched attitudes than his political policies and individual track record can overturn, but that's partly the legacy inherited by an Thai Prime Minister.

If he loses, I hope he stays in the game.

[tlansford]

Fans of Democrats making way to CTW for campaign rally, tight security with undercover police patrolling area.Nearby malls remain open. /TAN_Network

That's different to the standard practice for the malls to close whenever there is a red shirt protest.

last year Central World was open during the red-shirt rally when I was there. As were Pratuman, Platilum Plaza, and Pantip Plaza.

[animatic]

Fans of Democrats making way to CTW for campaign rally, tight security with undercover police patrolling area.Nearby malls remain open. /TAN_Network

That's different to the standard practice for the malls to close whenever there is a red shirt protest.

last year Central World was open during the red-shirt rally when I was there. As were Pratuman, Platilum Plaza, and Pantip Plaza.

Yeah, but that didn't last did it?

And the number of shoppers' willing to risk it' was greatly diminished.

[MrChangers]

It seems to me that Abhisit pitched his speech as well as he could have. Trying to cosy up too much with the reds/PTP in pursuit of reconciliation at this stage of the game would have smacked of desperation and done nothing for his loyal followers, whilst at the same time he didn't go to the lengths that Suthep did in his accusations.

The one thing that struck me was that he said all those who died last year were innocent and that (according to Fredrickson's translation) he felt he had done wrong (presumably because of this). It takes serious balls for someone in his position to say that.

It's a shame he might lose the election for issues concerning more entrenched attitudes than his political policies and individual track record can overturn, but that's partly the legacy inherited by an Thai Prime Minister.

If he loses, I hope he stays in the game.

He was a good Oxbridge debater but as we know most Uni debaters are wonderful until they hit the real world, and the brown smelly stuff floats over their shoes. He was never elected by the populace and never will be, he was placed in power. Having a rally here was not the most wise moves but I hope all went off peaceably. Not a good move in the strategy of one who wants to become PM