Thai Election

[samran]

Yes, those of use from democratic countries have the right to vote but it's not obligatory. Quite a lot of pompous nonsense on this thread - encourage her to vote? Teach her the importance of voting? Why the assumption that she has the brainpower of a retarded child? I agree with the late George Carlin on this point. I don't vote for politicians because it only encourages them. It's my right in a democracy not to vote for anyone, the OP should leave his wife to make her own decisions. Unless democracy means forcing your own opinions on other people (which in a way it does).

Well, it is compulsory to vote in Thailand, though the penalties for not voting are rather week.

Similar to Australia, and Belgium I believe.

Does anyone know what the exact penalties for not voting are? I've heard it is two things:

1. Can't run for political office (wow, big loss there...)

2. Can't be hired for a government job or work for the government.

This I've heard from the wife, who also doesn't vote. Says she is turned off by all the BS in Thai politics and politicians; I don't blame her one bit. I feel the same way about my country.

I also believe you lose your right to vote for 5 years, but it may be only for the important elections, not the local ones. Not quite sure.

Most of the above isn't true. You can only do the following if you voted at the last election:

- run for office

- sign petitions

That is about it.

[sbk]

But if each Thai person sits back and doesn't vote the person and party of their own choice , then what are we left with?

Essentially a government that is forced upon us based on the choice of other people. I may be a small voice, but at least it will be my choice. And if they do a bad job of fulfilling their promises, then I'll hope the next election comes soon enough so I can vote them out!

Good for you miggie, just wish more people felt the same.

[inthepink]

Yes voting is compulsory in Thailand

Yes penalties for not voting are not severe and mostly don't affect a lot of people (can't stand for any political office, can't sign petitions or impeachments)

But if each Thai person sits back and doesn't vote the person and party of their own choice , then what are we left with?

Essentially a government that is forced upon us based on the choice of other people. I may be a small voice, but at least it will be my choice. And if they do a bad job of fulfilling their promises, then I'll hope the next election comes soon enough so I can vote them out!

Those who have been in Thailand for some years may notice that in this election probably for the first time in Thai history, the campaigns are on party platforms and policies. Whereas in the past it was purely personalities based. Sure individuals / personalities will still play a major role in who people vote for. But the policy campaigns is a change, a development. It means politicians can be held accountable when one does a monitor of their campaign promises against the delivery once they are in parliament.

Democracy is a process. There's no quick fix. I can't say there is one party I am currently 100% happy with, but I'd rather choose something I'm 20% happy with, than have no say in it at all and left with a party I'm only 12% happy with

(numbers completely random)

I should think that a reasonable percentage of citizens will vote, those who are interested in the democratic process. As you say, it is your choice. For those who choose not to vote, that is also their personal choice. I don't believe they should be lectured by people who feel themselves to be morally or intellectually superior.

[Trembly]

In Thailand the confidentiality of your vote only exists as long as no one is interested in who you voted for.

If you apply for a government job they will look up your voting record . . . just to make sure that you're a responsible and participating citizen, of course.

If you go to petition or have any dealings with an elected representative, chances are they will look up your voting record, just for their information.

This is one of the reasons why turn out is so high in the rural areas. Folk are afraid of situations where "they won't help you out because you didn't vote for them"

Old biddies in the village market : "so who are we voting for then? number XX is it? What? I thought it was number XX . . . must be going deaf! Hahaha!. Right then, better write that down in case I forget"

Edited July 1, 2011 by Trembly

[MiG16]

should think that a reasonable percentage of citizens will vote, those who are interested in the democratic process. As you say, it is your choice. For those who choose not to vote, that is also their personal choice. I don't believe they should be lectured by people who feel themselves to be morally or intellectually superior.

I don't see where moral or intellectual superiority comes into play. Voting does not make anyone morally or intellectually inferior. And vice versa

But yes I do hope lots of people will vote

And that they do so without being coerced into choosing the candidates or parties - whichever that may be

[bangkokrick]

But if each Thai person sits back and doesn't vote the person and party of their own choice , then what are we left with?

Essentially a government that is forced upon us based on the choice of other people. I may be a small voice, but at least it will be my choice. And if they do a bad job of fulfilling their promises, then I'll hope the next election comes soon enough so I can vote them out!

Good for you miggie, just wish more people felt the same.

I agree with your sentiments also MIG, People should at least exercise their right to vote, especially in the case of women of whom many paid a high price in the early days to secure their vote.

[mario299]

[

Better teach the Yanks as well.

in each presidential election over the last 20 years, turnout has been under 50%.

Scion of democracy indeed...!

Don't know where you get your facts, but from Wikipedia:

Different countries have very different average voter turnouts. For example, in the United States 2008 presidential election turnout was 63%^[2] and 68% among African Americans (generally credited to Barack Obama's candidacy^[3]). In Australia, which has compulsory voting, and Malta, participation reaches 95%. These differences are caused by a mix of cultural and institutional factors.

Don't just make things up for your own entertainment please.

mario299

[inthepink]

should think that a reasonable percentage of citizens will vote, those who are interested in the democratic process. As you say, it is your choice. For those who choose not to vote, that is also their personal choice. I don't believe they should be lectured by people who feel themselves to be morally or intellectually superior.

I don't see where moral or intellectual superiority comes into play. Voting does not make anyone morally or intellectually inferior. And vice versa

But yes I do hope lots of people will vote

And that they do so without being coerced into choosing the candidates or parties - whichever that may be

You don't think a comment such as, "Why don't you teach her the importance of voting?" suggests a feeling of intellectual superiority on the part of the poster?

Comments like, "Its a social responsibility" and "We have the right to vote, and should exercise that right" don't sound a little moralistic to you?

Maybe we have different dictionaries? Morals govern "right conduct" (or "right action" if you prefer). A moralist seeks to regulate other people's morals (i.e. telling them what it is right to do), therefore those comments can't be anything other than moralistic. If somebody is going to lecture others on morals then it is only logical to assume that they think their morals are better, ergo they have a feeling of moral superiority.

Edited July 1, 2011 by inthepink

[Heng]

I don't like it when I have to wait in line for anything. Polling stations are out of the question.

[MiG16]

Inthepink

Clearly we see things differently

Just cos I appreciate the fact that we are able to vote does not mean I think I'm superior to those who don't care about voting

It just means we place different values on the importance of voting

That doesn't however stop me' from trying to influence / convince others to place more value on something I have a preference for

Take for example - I will still try to convince people to stop smoking. Not cos I think I'm morally or intellectually more superior than smokers. It just means I want more people on the same side as I am

[inthepink]

Inthepink

Clearly we see things differently

Just cos I appreciate the fact that we are able to vote does not mean I think I'm superior to those who don't care about voting

It just means we place different values on the importance of voting

That doesn't however stop me' from trying to influence / convince others to place more value on something I have a preference for

Take for example - I will still try to convince people to stop smoking. Not cos I think I'm morally or intellectually more superior than smokers. It just means I want more people on the same side as I am

Well, to be fair, you didn't make any of the comments that I referred to so I wasn't talking about you personally, rather the general tone of some of the other posts. There's nothing wrong with debating a point with somebody, as long as they are willing to do so. Where I think it would overstep the line is if you tried to convince somebody of your point of view after they had made it quite clear that they didn't want to vote and were not interested in discussing it.

I don't have an apathetic attitude towards voting myself. I feel quite strongly about not wanting to vote, which I think is different to not caring one way or the other (although it has the same end result).

[gregb]

Yes, those of use from democratic countries have the right to vote but it's not obligatory. Quite a lot of pompous nonsense on this thread - encourage her to vote? Teach her the importance of voting? Why the assumption that she has the brainpower of a retarded child? I agree with the late George Carlin on this point. I don't vote for politicians because it only encourages them. It's my right in a democracy not to vote for anyone, the OP should leave his wife to make her own decisions. Unless democracy means forcing your own opinions on other people (which in a way it does).

Truer words were never spoken. Way too many people take the high road about democracy being better than any other form of government. This is true only in limited circumstances and only while the specific country implementing democracy is experiencing economic growth. Democracy never survives a civilization's collapse.

Democracy is an anachronism that will be essentially gone within 100 years. It has risen and died out many times before in the history of the planet. Collapse is looming for us, and this period of history is not special. Surprisingly, the best comment on government actually comes from a paraphrasing of the Bible "When the king is good, the people rejoice, and when the king is bad the people mourn". Replace king with whatever other term for ruler that you want, and this is all that really needs to be said about any government system.

In practice, a good king is a better form of government than any democracy. The bad king isn't so great, but neither are the corrupt, evil and self serving politicians that democracy gives rise to. And popular revolutions are always possible when the monarch gets too far out of line.

Tell your girlfriend good for her for calling BS on the whole thing. Voting just gives the system a legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

[MiG16]

for those who say people should not vote (in protest or for whatever reason)

I would be interested to hear what you propose as alternatives?

sure democracy has its flaws....but what do you think is the better system?

(yes I see one of you have mentioned one other system....)

[gregb]

for those who say people should not vote (in protest or for whatever reason)

I would be interested to hear what you propose as alternatives?

sure democracy has its flaws....but what do you think is the better system?

(yes I see one of you have mentioned one other system....)

The form of government that will replace democracy this time around is the same one that replaced it last time around. First it will be some kind of military dictatorship set up hastily when democracy proves unable to react quickly enough to the emerging collapse/crisis. Eventually, this gives way to feudalism as the energy and money to support large empires vanishes. This will likely evolve from drug lords and other mafia figures who become defacto rulers in areas where the national authority is too weak to govern. Over time, the feudal estates will be brought into an organization resembling a monarchy, and eventually over many generations it will become an actual monarchy.

This is what happens when civilizations decline. And there is a reason for it. At the peak, democracies become to corrupt and too bloated to operate effectively. Institutional corruption sets in, and the complexity is such that it uses too large a slice of the available resources. Reform is impossible because doing anything at all simply increases the complexity. We are at that point in history now. Vote if you want, don't vote if you want. It really makes no difference. I only encourage my wife to vote this time because I fear the return of Thaksin. But that is not a sustainable pattern for democracy.

Useful technologies from various historical civilizations are always preserved because they serve a needed purpose in society. Democracy is always discarded because it does not. Don't blame me for looking at history and seeing the patterns. They are there for anyone who wants to look and study the academic literature on how civilizations rise and fall.

But remember the saying I would never want to belong to any club that would have me as a member. By definition, anyone willing to run for office in the current climate is someone you don't want to vote for.

[craigt3365]

Wife went to Issan today along with her cousins to vote. Not 100% sure why they didn't vote here, but they are off and excited about seeing all the people back in the village to vote. I'm sure it will be fun.

She wasn't going to vote, and I convinced her to do so. She's a bit afraid as she has heard they do find out who you voted for. Not sure how, but she says they do. Obviously, she's not voting "red".

Her mom gets bribes every time. Takes the cash and votes for who she wants to.

Good or bad, Thailand is a democracy. It's a citizens duty (and right) to vote...and after traveling around the world and seeing many countries where citizens have no ability to vote, it's a good thing. Glad I'm not a citizen of Cuba....but it is a beautiful country!