Soi Dogs

[bangkaew]

I know this sounds cruel, but is getting involved not in some way making it worse or just futile? There was an extremely malnourished puppy at the beach the other day and after discovering it had no home or mother, I wanted to take it to the Phuket Soi dog home. I ordered some food for it but it ran far away when approached. The Thai waitresses I could tell thought I was nuts and that got me thinking. I have gotten 2 dogs from the Phuket Soi dog home, both were puppies, and I would not think of paying a breeder to breed yet more dogs for me - and that is not just because I am Scottish.

But would it be better if that dog lives and goes on to mate? If it went to the Soi dog home it would be taken care of but there is no guarantee that anyone will adopt it. Considering there are hundreds of dogs there, all vacinated, it is a very expensive operation. Us feeding stay dogs could be making the problem worse and might be something that just makes us feel good.

There were 3 dogs at a building site here that were poisoned and the security guards have replaced them with 4 puppies. They probably do not want 4 dogs, but they probably got 4 because they expect some to be run over, poisoned or whatever. That seems cruel to us but that is the mentality of the free will Budhist. That is their solution to the problem, let the dogs find their own fate and keep the numbers manageable. In an ideal world all dogs who were not destined for breeding would be neutred, but in a Budhist culture? Both my dogs are neutred but I do not think you will get many Thais to do it and you can not go about doing it in Phuket anyway because the vast majority of dogs that appear to be feral are loosely attached to a home. I know it is tough to see but in a way its no different from seeing a starving lion in a nature reserve. Maybe the Soi dog foundation etc would be better trying to educate people about the benefits to all concerned of neutering dogs, but then again, have foreigners a right to tell them how to live? Just a thought

[sbk]

Actually, by spaying and neutering so many dogs he is treating the problem rather than a symptom, like feeding one malnourished puppy one meal.

[bangkaew]

Actually, by spaying and neutering so many dogs he is treating the problem rather than a symptom, like feeding one malnourished puppy one meal.

Yes. Neutering is a great policy, it is just that most dogs here do have a home and they do not want their dogs' balls chopped off.

[bangkaew]

The 'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan says that dogs would actually be happier if humans did not exist. He says a dog is happy when it is balanced and that unlike dogs who are pets, dogs in the wild are nearly always balanced. He says the best examples of balanced dogs are often those with homeless people. He says a street dog is happier than a dog who has a 10 minute daily walk and spends the rest of the time alone and/or couped up.

[isanbirder]

The 'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan says that dogs would actually be happier if humans did not exist. He says a dog is happy when it is balanced and that unlike dogs who are pets, dogs in the wild are nearly always balanced. He says the best examples of balanced dogs are often those with homeless people. He says a street dog is happier than a dog who has a 10 minute daily walk and spends the rest of the time alone and/or couped up.

Easy to say, difficult to prove.

But dogs are certainly pack animals, and therefore prefer not to be alone.

[bangkaew]

The 'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan says that dogs would actually be happier if humans did not exist. He says a dog is happy when it is balanced and that unlike dogs who are pets, dogs in the wild are nearly always balanced. He says the best examples of balanced dogs are often those with homeless people. He says a street dog is happier than a dog who has a 10 minute daily walk and spends the rest of the time alone and/or couped up.

Easy to say, difficult to prove.

But dogs are certainly pack animals, and therefore prefer not to be alone.

He says that as pets are confined to house or garden they are often unbalanced - excessive barking, destroying things, aggression, anxiety etc, which wild dogs on the whole do not do. Even if a dog has a big garden, it is still fenced and therefore the dog just sees it as a big kennel. Naturally in the wild, dogs travel as a pack to find food and that is the point of a walk first and foremost. Obviously a dog needs exercise but it should also get to travel in order to fulfil their hard wired instinct. Ideally the walk should be like work for them involving body and mind. In the wild when they are looking for food they are at work and are not scenting every tree and sniffing the ground, if they did they would never get anywhere. Once they have finished work they play as much as they like. Dogs live in the moment so they do not rationalize that they have a hard life. A street dog roaming for food is completely natural and if part of a pack all the better. I would bet that if dogs could rationalize, they would prefer that life to being stuck in a garden by themselves all day every day. Even if they get steak every day.

[bina]

the dog whisperere obviously doesnt know that many dog packs; here we have several feral packs of mostly canaani mix types; last week they attacked an adult male human jogging along one of the back roads here (we are an agricultural area and rabies is prevalent)... last year we had the pack (that lives between our kibbutz and 12 kilometer distance to an other moshav) they hang out near our petrol station, they attacked and bit a student worker living here, while on an evening jog around the kibbutz. while i agree that most dogs prefer to be outdoors and together, as they are here (our house dogs that is), our house dogs have territories that are very specific and woe be the strange dog that enters the area... new additons to families get quite a work up from the other dogs int he area...

the feral packs get rabies oral vaccine thru meat bait but that is not an accurate way to do things; the nature reserve people used to catch and bring the dogs in to holding areas and those that could be placed, were sent to humane society grups. those that were not placeable were destroyed. animal rights groups protested so now there is no way to destroy the dogs. the law here is that if a dog attacks u u can shoot it dead (yes lots of people working agriculture have guns for various obvious reasons); and the nature preserve folks probably also do some 'attacked me therefore shot it' type shooting, however, the packs have also been hunting and destroyed several newly introduced herds of a kind of deer (cant remember what its called in english, in hebrew its a yahmor) that have been bred and released in our area...

unlike cats, where we have a spay/neuter/rabies/release plan, for dogs there isnt one. domestic dogs living in feral packs are more dangerous to their surroundings that wild dogs (the difference is the genetic programming in the dog, not that the dog is living in the wild or in a home- domestic means bred to be with humans, genetically designed to be with us/work with us/tolerate us... and the feral packs are domestic dogs that are not afraid of humans therefore live close by and behaviourlly do not have the fright/flight attitude of most wild canines that are normal(not in corner, with litter, or ill).

almost every farm here hasa some dogs hanging around that are fed on and off, and not really cared for. now with hte new more western attitudes here of microchipping and registration, there is less and less of this. even farm yard dogs have to have a specific owner with a specific chip, and rabies every year is the law. if yoru dog is picked up and sent to doggie jail, u pay a huge sum plus pay per nite until u take your dog out ater ten days 'time'. i payed for bunjee (ratterrier) when he was picked up this way once. the difference being now that twenty years ago here there were tons of 'unowned' yard dogs in every village and town; now only the feral packs made up of runaways , thrown away pups, and born in the wild litters are left.

the micro chip registeration has only started in the past ten years, and still many dogs arent chipped/rabies vaccinated. here people still poison neighbhors dogs, or shoot them. spaying and nuetering was met with religious inacceptability or macho middle eastern denial. up til now, intact dogs payed twice the amount for the chip/registration and yearly vaccine. yesterday i read that the price for intact dogs getting the vaccine/registration per year may go up to 1000 NIS. these same incentives would probably work in thailand since there are many parallesl between there and here (this is not america where everything is perfect and modern and uptodate and everyone complies with everything)...

......a dissertation....... and yes, i am going to spay lilee as we sufferred through her heat this past month. the incentive to get thai hubby to coperate? yearly rabies vaccine will cost much less when i get lilee registered as spayed. cost is a great incnetive even with buddhist morals......

bina

israel

[sbk]

Curious bangkaew? You live in the same neighborhood as the OP so are confident all the soi dogs he is treating are owned? I don't know about where you live but where I live unwanted dogs and puppies are dumped at the temples and end up 1. not owned by the temple and 2. over run the temple as they breed and breed.

[bangkaew]

Bina, I am all in favour of what is your policy there regarding dogs and if packs of wild dogs are attacking people then it is perfectly justified to shoot the whole pack as that is obviously the pack mentality. I was not advocating stray dogs for one minute, I know I fear one will bite my wife every time she has an early morning beach run - but again most of them have homes. I was merely pointing out that the dogs are not unhappy being wild and still think are more happy than dogs who 'have a big yard to play in'. The dogs that attacked the jogger were probably having a great time. But from a human perspective, we do not like to see stray dogs that have fleas, missing fur, are emaciated etc not to mention possibly have diseases and are aggressive - but again the animal might well be happy enough. So if city strays are not dangerous, wanting to castrate them and put them in a shelter and then more than likely killed, is for us humans' sensibilities, not for the dogs benefit. I entirely accept that and go along with it as part of a civilized society.

I think you would like the 'Dog Whisperer' show on the National Geographic channel. It is a Mexican guy who grew up on a farm similar it sounds to in Isreal. He specializes in rehabilitating red zone dogs who everyone says must be killed. He has a pack of 40 dogs, mostly pitbulls, rotts, akitas etc who were originally in the red zone. In the pack all are now calm submissive with no fights. Of course he is not in favour of stays, his point is that all dogs need to walk every day and if they do not then problems can occur.

[bangkaew]

Bina, I am all in favour of what is your policy there regarding dogs and if packs of wild dogs are attacking people then it is perfectly justified to shoot the whole pack as that is obviously the pack mentality. I was not advocating stray dogs for one minute, I know I fear one will bite my wife every time she has an early morning beach run - but again most of them have homes. I was merely pointing out that the dogs are not unhappy being wild and still think are more happy than dogs who 'have a big yard to play in'. The dogs that attacked the jogger were probably having a great time. But from a human perspective, we do not like to see stray dogs that have fleas, missing fur, are emaciated etc not to mention possibly have diseases and are aggressive - but again the animal might well be happy enough. So if city strays are not dangerous, wanting to castrate them and put them in a shelter and then more than likely killed, is for us humans' sensibilities, not for the dogs benefit. I entirely accept that and go along with it as part of a civilized society.

I think you would like the 'Dog Whisperer' show on the National Geographic channel. It is a Mexican guy who grew up on a farm similar it sounds to in Isreal. He specializes in rehabilitating red zone dogs who everyone says must be killed. He has a pack of 40 dogs, mostly pitbulls, rotts, akitas etc who were originally in the red zone. In the pack all are now calm submissive with no fights. Of course he is not in favour of stays, his point is that all dogs need to walk every day and if they do not then problems can occur.

[bina]

yeah i know the show....

the amount of care that pets get is a direct relationship to the amount of money people have to spend... the less money, the less actual care as far as food/vet stuff simply cause its too expensive as we have the same problem here... the opposite direction is the pets in place of children syndrome but thats an other story...

im sure thailand will catch up to the states as far as animal care is concerned in the next ten years if the economic differences/situation changes...

in the mean time, any program involving spaying/neutering/vaccinations/feeding probably helps if only to control and limit the problem ...

bina

israel

[bangkaew]

im sure thailand will catch up to the states as far as animal care is concerned in the next ten years if the economic differences/situation changes...

in the mean time, any program involving spaying/neutering/vaccinations/feeding probably helps if only to control and limit the problem ...

bina

israel

50 years, maybe!

the amount of care that pets get is a direct relationship to the amount of money people have to spend... the less money, the less actual care as far as food/vet stuff simply cause its too expensive as we have the same problem here... the opposite direction is the pets in place of children syndrome but thats an other story...

I would say in the developing world this is certainly true and often in the west too. But I would rather be a dog who is free to roam about with my friends but was sometimes hungry, than have everything a human thinks I need but only get out 10 minutes a day on a leash.

yeah i know the show....

Yeah it seems to be that dog trainers do not like him - probably jealous, but people to whom dog trainers have said 'put your dog down and get a new one because there is nothing that anyone can do for your dog', he is a godsend. I mean how do you use positive reinforcement techniques to stop a dog wanting to bite people?

[bangkaew]

Curious bangkaew? You live in the same neighborhood as the OP so are confident all the soi dogs he is treating are owned? I don't know about where you live but where I live unwanted dogs and puppies are dumped at the temples and end up 1. not owned by the temple and 2. over run the temple as they breed and breed.

Sorry, but who is 'the OP'? I totally agree with you regarding the temple dogs, but how do you know if the dog is owned? Apparently a few years ago they told everyone that on a certain day they were going to shoot all the feral dogs on the beach so if you have a dog, keep it at home that day. Problem is that the dogs that do have homes still mate at will. Again, it is education of the benefits of neutering that is needed but even then I do not know if they would go for it.

[Sophon]

But I would rather be a dog who is free to roam about with my friends but was sometimes hungry, than have everything a human thinks I need but only get out 10 minutes a day on a leash.

You seem to have a romanticized idea of and very little knowledge about how soi dogs actually live in Bangkok and other big cities in Thailand. Because there are so many dogs living in the sois, they are not "free to roam about with their friends", but have to stick to their own very small area of the soi - often no more than 50 meters. If they try to move beyond their own small territory they are attacked by other dogs or chased away by people.

And hunger is not the biggest problem for the dogs, between what they can scrounge from the garbage and people feeding the, most of the dogs get enough to eat not to go hungry. Most of the suffering comes from parasite infestations and horrific injuries from car accidents. Many soi dogs are scratching themselves bloody trying (without success) to relieve the itching caused by mange or hobble around with untreated broken bones and big infected wounds.

Do these look like happy dogs to you?

Sophon

[bina]

the romanticism of wild animals or being 'simple and poor'....

for most domestic dogs a pack of two (a good book btw if somein is in to reading abbout alcoholism and a dog as a pet)is enough. apart from some rather primitive breeds , the bangkew being one of them (primitive in genetic terms not in anthrompological terms) most dogs prefer to be in a house with or without people. of course for certain breeds boredom sets in, but the alternative, constant fighting to maintain a toe hold in a pack or risk getting ripped to pieces (as happens to intruders, younger weaker males, etc) is not a very good one. maybe the feral dogs roaming in our wadis (valleys) here are 'living the born to be free wild dream' but most of the bitches that give birth lose most of their pups to road accidents, disease; drought can kill young or ill pups and dogs if their is no open access to water like here in certain seonons ;forest fires; dying by poison from organic phosphates sprayed on crops and fields; caught in fencing of agricultural areas... the list is numverous.

the city has its own traps. here, there are no dog packs in the cities, there are cats. the dogs are ostly in the argicultural areas and so rabie sis also very prevalant.

anyhow, back to the subject at hand. i admire anyone who takes on strays. sevarl times ive done placements here, we have way to manystrays here and as the economic and lack of affordable housing situation gets worse more dogs are tossed. also, anyone helping a stray here is stuck with it, including vet bills which are way way way over a good many peoles' salaries.

however there is ajewish adage of 'u save one life you save a thousand ' so the same for dogs (saving one life u save the potential for sperm/ovaries to meet and create more people), for dogs, by saving one, and spaying, u are preventing 6 puppies times five years from growing up, breeding and suffereing. as for parasites etc, its not just a canine problem as fleas are vectors for intestinal parasites, ticks are vectors for reketsias both human and canine etc.; rabies; etc.

bina

im not against cesar, its jus tthat its very hard for me to trust a dog with a violent and aggressive behavioral problem sinc e for the most part, the human owners are not able to keep up the behavioral actions to maintain the dog in its new good behaviors.

i recently helped a girl (single yuppie living alone) with her pekinese pup. i was like super nanny. piles of useless and potentially dangerous childrene's toys given to the pup, no daily schedule (she works from home mostly), lets him run outside loose cause when seh leashes him, he 'faints', so almost gets run over by a car. she gave me a very hefty tip for two hours of show and tell for basic doggy manners , and when i called again, she was apologetic for not sticking to the rules but she cant resist his sad brown eyes. he will become a biter, run away, will get run over or stolen, or will eat poison (they're on a working agricultural moshav) and she will be sad. and im good with dogs and training people. but for a dangerous dog, in the long run its potential heartbreak unles su can find a good owner who maintains and reinforces th behaviors.i had her practice with him, she got positive reinforcement for doing good with him, etc. but laziness - not getting up everyday at same hour for poo/pee/feed, not doing the same routine for leashing/harness, poo first, play after, she just couldnt be bothered.

(foofoo my nasty lhasa is a prime example of if he had been in an other family he would have been put in doggy prison and probably put down for aggressive behavior and non provoked biting and erratic reactions. because we mainatain the same rules and regulations in our house for him and when we have strangers over, he is able to stay alive. but not everyone is willing to remember constantly to use the same commands all the time, never give in, always make sure the gates are shut, always make sure the dog is not approached while in his bed, always make sure that small chidlren are introduced to the dog and that there is adult supervision or dog is in enclosed area, always use verbal reprimands only since dog freaks if physically rough handled even by accident, the list goes on... he is my second 'problem dog' out of the four i have had/have, and most people are not made to live their lives around rules/regs for dealing with psychiatric canine cases.)

and frankly i hve a repuation for dealing with 'problem dogs' so folks are always coming to me for help and most of the problem is indeed the human side but again, need time and patience which most dont have cause they simply dont have it. and so the dog gets thrwon out, donated to the army/guard squads/put down...

bina

[bangkaew]

But I would rather be a dog who is free to roam about with my friends but was sometimes hungry, than have everything a human thinks I need but only get out 10 minutes a day on a leash.

You seem to have a romanticized idea of and very little knowledge about how soi dogs actually live in Bangkok and other big cities in Thailand. Because there are so many dogs living in the sois, they are not "free to roam about with their friends", but have to stick to their own very small area of the soi - often no more than 50 meters. If they try to move beyond their own small territory they are attacked by other dogs or chased away by people.

And hunger is not the biggest problem for the dogs, between what they can scrounge from the garbage and people feeding the, most of the dogs get enough to eat not to go hungry. Most of the suffering comes from parasite infestations and horrific injuries from car accidents. Many soi dogs are scratching themselves bloody trying (without success) to relieve the itching caused by mange or hobble around with untreated broken bones and big infected wounds.

Do these look like happy dogs to you?

Sophon

I did say FREE to rome about right? The dogs you are talking about are not free to rome about therefore are not the dogs i am talking about. Of course I do not think those dogs have a good life but what do you suggest happens to them? Treated and put back on the street or treated and put in a pen for a year and then killed? Because for every dog like that who is adopted there are 99 who will not be. So it basically comes down to a choice of, leave them on the street, or kill them.

The big cities are not what I am talking about. I am talking about the majority of the country where the dogs are free to do what they please but do go hungry some of the time. My point is that although the people doing this are full of love and compassion, they are basically cleaning up their neighbourhood to make it nicer for them to live in. The same way that you do not get homeless people in expensive areas because they are moved on to a poor area because no one wants a homeless man sleeping outside their front gate. The people here might argue that if every soi did what they are doing - and they are doing it for the right reasons, then the problem would be solved, but there will still be hundreds of unwanted dogs and owners who will not fence or neuter their pets.

[Galong]

Ticks and fleas aren't fatal, but heartworm is and leads to a horrible death.

Yes, first of all, thank you OP for your kindness to our furry friends. I know exactly where you're coming from as I have to take care of all of the dogs in my neighborhood too... even the ones who belong to people who have enough money to take care of them, but choose not too.

I have almost lost two of my five rescued dogs to a certain kind of tick fever, so I wouldn't say it's not fatal. Besides being very, very sick, they almost died.

I most certainly agree that heartworm medicine is a MUST.

Best of luck to you and your canine friends.

[NALAK]

Wendy at SCADS best contact, i do very similar in Pattaya about 25-30 dogs. neutering bitches is best way to reduce numbers, i got a vet who does it for 700 baht per dog. insect control the easiest way i found is buy bottle of ivomec about 500 baht, get a few syringes and needles. fill the syringe with ivomec and get some raw meat minced pork good, mix 2 ml ivomec with some pork i usually mix it into a ball. then feed 1 to each indvividual dogs as and when you can. internal parasites again buy from vet about 50 baht for 1 tablet mixed with meat again. cheapest way to feed in my experience is to buy rice they sell for dog food, 13 baht per kilo, i buy 15kg at a time as thats cheaper, i get a frozen dog food that makro sell for 20 baht per kilo. have a big pot mix rice and 2 packs of frozen dog food and boil up, once boiling switch off to save gas and leave for couple of hours. then empty into big bowl that they use to do laundary in and leave to cool for a few hours. mix it all up them as meat is then obviously thawed out. chicken carcass can replace meat but i dont like giving chicken bones to young dogs. so cost for days food is about 60 baht, heart gaurd way is to expensive.

PM me for wendys e mail at SCADS if interested

[bangkaew]

the romanticism of wild animals or being 'simple and poor'....

I am quite aware that the majority of wild animals live in a near constant state of fear and hunger. I was merely saying that the dogs in Phuket, although sometimes hungry, look to live better lives than many in the West.

anyhow, back to the subject at hand. i admire anyone who takes on strays. sevarl times ive done placements here, we have way to manystrays here and as the economic and lack of affordable housing situation gets worse more dogs are tossed. also, anyone helping a stray here is stuck with it, including vet bills which are way way way over a good many peoles' salaries.

That is the good thing about Thailand, the vet bills are about a tenth of the UK. I got 2 puppies who were rescues but I would agree that taking on a fully grown stray is something that should be given a lot of thought. And what makes dealing with the problem in BBK a difficult decision.

im not against cesar, its jus tthat its very hard for me to trust a dog with a violent and aggressive behavioral problem sinc e for the most part, the human owners are not able to keep up the behavioral actions to maintain the dog in its new good behaviors.

That is perhaps what a lot of trainers think. Maybe they think that the only cases where his methods are the only methods that work, are cases that are not worth it anyway. But to be fair to Ceasar, he started out rescuing abused rotts that were going to be killed. He did it for the dogs purely and then people who were willing to put in the work then adopted them. Remember that Michael Vick's pitbulls are now therapy dogs in a cancer hospice. Cesar's belief is that dogs can move on and become balanced again with exercise, discipline and affection in that order. He then was called in by desperate people who were told to have their dogs put down. He was not telling anyone what to do, he was only helping to save the animal at the owners request.

(foofoo my nasty lhasa is a prime example of if he had been in an other family he would have been put in doggy prison and probably put down for aggressive behavior and non provoked biting and erratic reactions. because we mainatain the same rules and regulations in our house for him and when we have strangers over, he is able to stay alive. but not everyone is willing to remember constantly to use the same commands all the time, never give in, always make sure the gates are shut, always make sure the dog is not approached while in his bed, always make sure that small chidlren are introduced to the dog and that there is adult supervision or dog is in enclosed area, always use verbal reprimands only since dog freaks if physically rough handled even by accident, the list goes on... he is my second 'problem dog' out of the four i have had/have, and most people are not made to live their lives around rules/regs for dealing with psychiatric canine cases.)

I only turned to Cesar when we got our bangkaew mix. As I am sure you know they are half jackal and ours anyway was quick to bite. But with daily runs and making sure he knows he is not the pack leader, he really is now a wonderful dog. When people say you should not dominate your dogs, I hope they one day have a naturally dominant dog. And we do not really dominate. Is having rules, boundaries and limitations dominating? Cesar also says that you do not get the dog you want but the dog that you need and it is so true!

[NALAK]

The one problem i get now and a gain is a dog thats in a bad way, vets are not sypmrathetic here, i took dog in last week literally picked it up in park put it in the car, asked for it to be put down they said they would do but wanted to try and make better first. that was never going to happen, i ended up with a bill for 13200 and a dead dog. tough choice, ignore or mget hammered. i would really like to get a bolt gun as used in abbatoirs for killing cattle, although i have found one vet who will put down for 2000 baht. he was closed unfurtunatly when i took this one in.she was never going to survive an operation.

Edited July 25, 2011 by NALAK

[Sophon]

I did say FREE to rome about right? The dogs you are talking about are not free to rome about therefore are not the dogs i am talking about. Of course I do not think those dogs have a good life but what do you suggest happens to them? Treated and put back on the street or treated and put in a pen for a year and then killed? Because for every dog like that who is adopted there are 99 who will not be. So it basically comes down to a choice of, leave them on the street, or kill them.

The big cities are not what I am talking about. I am talking about the majority of the country where the dogs are free to do what they please but do go hungry some of the time. My point is that although the people doing this are full of love and compassion, they are basically cleaning up their neighbourhood to make it nicer for them to live in. The same way that you do not get homeless people in expensive areas because they are moved on to a poor area because no one wants a homeless man sleeping outside their front gate. The people here might argue that if every soi did what they are doing - and they are doing it for the right reasons, then the problem would be solved, but there will still be hundreds of unwanted dogs and owners who will not fence or neuter their pets.

But this whole thread is about soi dogs and what can be done to give them a better life, so your comments are not relevant here. If you wish to discuss the quality of life for dogs living free compared to dogs living in a house feel free to open a new thread.

Sophon

[sbk]

Curious bangkaew? You live in the same neighborhood as the OP so are confident all the soi dogs he is treating are owned? I don't know about where you live but where I live unwanted dogs and puppies are dumped at the temples and end up 1. not owned by the temple and 2. over run the temple as they breed and breed.

Sorry, but who is 'the OP'? I totally agree with you regarding the temple dogs, but how do you know if the dog is owned? Apparently a few years ago they told everyone that on a certain day they were going to shoot all the feral dogs on the beach so if you have a dog, keep it at home that day. Problem is that the dogs that do have homes still mate at will. Again, it is education of the benefits of neutering that is needed but even then I do not know if they would go for it.

OP is the original poster, the person you are denigrating for trying to do something constructive and assuming he is treating pets.

And yes, after over 20 years watching dogs in Thailand you do have a very romanticized view of a dogs life here,including beach dogs. Show me a bitch in heat in the midst of mating who gets attacked by other male dogs and gets her uterus pulled out because of it and tell me how great her life is and how much she loves it. Show me the male dogs who fight over a bitch in heat and end up with great gaping wounds and dying a slow painful death because of it and then tell me how great that is again.

And frankly, most the Thais I know do want their dogs sterilized they just can't afford it. When a climic offering free and low cost sterilizations opened up here they couldnt cope with the demand from locals.

[bangkaew]

And frankly, most the Thais I know do want their dogs sterilized they just can't afford it. When a climic offering free and low cost sterilizations opened up here they couldnt cope with the demand from locals.

Well it is 600b here in Phuket or free if you go to the Soi Dog Foundation and yet I have never heard of or seen a neutred dog here that belonged to a Thai. I do know Thais that spend way over 600b over the lifetime of a dogs life giving pills and shots to keep them sterile but they will not spay.

This is a forum about soi dogs so I am entitled to give my opinion on the subject and that is; 1. In my opinion, and I may well be wrong, the locals want to not interfere in the life of another living thing. Therefore they do not want to kill or neuter. 2. The only real options are kill the dogs or leave them because so few will be adopted.

Of course feeding the dogs meat with medicine is a great thing and yes if you can spay them that is great too.