Pheu Thai's Wage Hike Doesn't Add Up For Thailand

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Pheu Thai's Wage hike doesn't add up for Thailand

By The Nation

The promised Bt300 minimum wage may have won votes, but it will cost jobs and competitiveness if put into action

The Pheu Thai Party must reconsider its plan to raise the daily minimum wage to Bt300 if it wants to avoid damaging the job market, pushing up inflation to uncontrollable levels and causing job losses.

Going ahead with this policy in order to score short-term political points would result in a long-term impact to the economy as a whole. The consequences of such hasty action would damage, rather than benefit, the Kingdom.

Prime minister-in-waiting Yingluck Shinawatra said during the election campaign that if her party was elected to government, it would raise the minimum wage to Bt300 within 90 days. Yingluck later changed her tune, saying that the raise would be implemented next year, but her frequent statements concerning the minimum wage have already caused confusion.

It remains unclear how the government will implement the hike. Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra said last week that the Bt300 minimum wage would be applicable in Bangkok and its vicinity only. But after a meeting of the Wage Tripartite Committee earlier this week, Labour Ministry Permanent Secretary Somkiat Chayasriwong suggested that the government might start the hike in Bangkok and Phuket, where current minimum wage levels stand at Bt215 and Bt221 respectively.

At any rate, the proposal to select only certain provinces for an immediate wage hike is imperfect. Such a selective hike would not only widen the income gap of workers but could also inflate the populations of big cities as workers migrate to where they can earn Bt300 a day.

Although Pheu Thai claimed the instant wage rise would boost the wealth of workers, putting more cash in their pockets, the party failed to take into account the pressure from rising prices, which could diminish the value of money. In short, the wage hike may not really boost the purchasing power of people after all.

In fact, the Tripartite Committee, consisting of representatives for employers, employees and the government, is the best forum to decide a suitable minimum wage, because it seeks a level that works best for all stakeholders.

The wage level, mutually agreed upon and decided by the tripartite committee members, has so far proven effective in boosting the productivity of workers in line with an increased minimum wage and inflation rate. The existing mechanism to determine the wage minimum has been successful in enhancing the bargaining power of workers while maintaining the competitiveness of businesses so as to ensure workers are not made redundant.

However, political parties used an artificially high wage figure as a tool to attract votes during the general election. The parties thereby gave voters unrealistic expectations, especially those in the provinces beyond Bangkok and Phuket, where the minimum wage is between Bt160 and Bt190. The Bt300 wage is a temptation that blue-collar workers, many of whom are Pheu Thai supporters, find difficult to resist.

If the government insists on a hike to appease voters for political reasons, it should instead consider other methods, such as raising the wage in steps or raising it nationwide by Bt85, which is the difference between Bangkok's minimum-wage level and the proposed Pheu Thai rate. Or they should explain to voters that their policy promise may deliver negative impacts if acted upon, and therefore has to be revised.

Even in Bangkok where the minimum wage is Bt215, the proposed hike to Bt300 would mark a 39.5-per-cent increase and would instantly add an average 22 per cent to production costs - 29.6 per cent for manufactured goods and 19 per cent for the service sector - according to figures from the University of Thai Chamber of Commerce. The same research also showed that small- and medium-sized businesses (SMEs) would be affected the most. A minimum wage of Bt300 would adversely affect 73.79 per cent of SMEs, according to a survey of the Federation of Thai Industries.

The wage hike could also open the floodgates for illegal migrant workers.

As voters, we have a responsibility to monitor the viability and consequences of this policy. Otherwise, this offer will only encourage irresponsible promises from politicians eager to win elections.

The unrealistic Bt300 minimum would adversely affect low-skilled workers, unless they could manage to improve their skills or productivity, which is unlikely in the short term given the government's lack of policy for competitiveness.

These low-skilled workers will be expecting Pheu Thai's promised wage hike to put more money in their pockets, but they may end up without a job when employers choose to replace them with foreign workers or machinery.

-- The Nation 2011-07-14

[REM]

Agreed. This, combined with the B15,000 price hike for a bag of rice, and there's going to be some major shifts in business in Thailand. That, along with the expected devaluation of the baht to 40 baht for one USD, and the farmers, blue collar workers are going to be in a worse position once customers go elsewhere, and there's no more jobs. It's funny, I've tried to explain to Thai friends how they might have more money in their pockets, but their spending power won't' increase, and they can't grasp that. I'm glad the author did. Can we put this in a Thai newspaper, in Thai?? People are going to buy rice from Cambodia and other countries (there's already a problem with rice smuggled in from Cambodia as it's so much cheaper), workers might lose jobs as SME's might go under, and the city will be flooded with even more unqualified labor!

Ah, Thaksinomics, as another article said. Let the lies begin, and give us a double shot!!! (one from Thaksin, one from Ying-Luck)

This is what shortsightedness gets you.....nothing.

[RogueExpat]

Ah, Thaksinomics, as another article said. Let the lies begin, and give us a double shot!!! (one from Thaksin, one from Ying-Luck)

This is what shortsightedness gets you.....nothing.

Thaksinomics = road to banana republic.

[ThaiSold]

Basic economics really, most of the people who voted for her don't even understand the economics, they just want the 300 per day. It won't ever happen not this year not next, big businesses still control things here just like other countries, they won't allow it. We'll see what really happens but if they do, expect many peopele to just close up shop.

[lacomey2]

If Baht 215 for a days work in the rice fields or factories is such a fair deal, why don't some of you yo-yo's take these jobs. Working for less than $10 per day at this hard labor is a joke and insult to the Thai Nation.

If International Companies move to Thailand to exploit the thai labor force they have no HONOR! These are human beings and deserve a fair wage for a fair days work. Just because people are born into poverty

doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated as equals. My father told me when I was a child that no man, Not even the President of the United States was a better man than I just because of his title or power or wealth!

[whybother]

If Baht 215 for a days work in the rice fields or factories is such a fair deal, why don't some of you yo-yo's take these jobs. Working for less than $10 per day at this hard labor is a joke and insult to the Thai Nation.

If International Companies move to Thailand to exploit the thai labor force they have no HONOR! These are human beings and deserve a fair wage for a fair days work. Just because people are born into poverty

doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated as equals. My father told me when I was a child that no man, Not even the President of the United States was a better man than I just because of his title or power or wealth!

I agree. All foreign companies should kicked out. That'll show 'em for not paying a fair wage.

[brianb1944]

If Baht 215 for a days work in the rice fields or factories is such a fair deal, why don't some of you yo-yo's take these jobs. Working for less than $10 per day at this hard labor is a joke and insult to the Thai Nation.

If International Companies move to Thailand to exploit the thai labor force they have no HONOR! These are human beings and deserve a fair wage for a fair days work. Just because people are born into poverty

doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated as equals. My father told me when I was a child that no man, Not even the President of the United States was a better man than I just because of his title or power or wealth!

Oooh! you are a newbie, why on earth should any of us take a job in Thailand? not that we could get a work permit anyway. Also people working rice fields in Issan only get about 120 baht per day ($4)

[Crushdepth]

If Baht 215 for a days work in the rice fields or factories is such a fair deal, why don't some of you yo-yo's take these jobs. Working for less than $10 per day at this hard labor is a joke and insult to the Thai Nation.

If International Companies move to Thailand to exploit the thai labor force they have no HONOR! These are human beings and deserve a fair wage for a fair days work. Just because people are born into poverty

doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated as equals. My father told me when I was a child that no man, Not even the President of the United States was a better man than I just because of his title or power or wealth!

Because we aren't yoyos?

Wages in Thailand are much better than neighbouring countries. Not everybody can live in the United States or earn a US wage. And US consumers seem entirely happy to buy their shiny new iPhones built by sweatshop labour.

[Gary A]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

[whatsupdoc]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

Narrowing the gap is a good thing, rising inflation and unemployment isn't. A sudden nationwide increase of the minimum wage to 300 baht will create more problems than it solves and ironically, might make the gap even wider.

[ginjag]

If Baht 215 for a days work in the rice fields or factories is such a fair deal, why don't some of you yo-yo's take these jobs. Working for less than $10 per day at this hard labor is a joke and insult to the Thai Nation.

If International Companies move to Thailand to exploit the thai labor force they have no HONOR! These are human beings and deserve a fair wage for a fair days work. Just because people are born into poverty

doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated as equals. My father told me when I was a child that no man, Not even the President of the United States was a better man than I just because of his title or power or wealth!

So near 7000 a month is low and hard toil agree put up the wage and he will have to pay more when shopping or bills, Form Macro you can get 5 kilo's of rice for 75 bht. Tesco 85 bht. You cannot compare the dollars, it's not USA, as I would not work for 10 dollars a day in U.K. Look at his food bill and drink and large HUT costs. And together with all the family money at that house, they still live well to Thai standards. I live on their wages and buy English food. TRUE. but I don't swill down white whisky or beer every day, or smoke a pack a day. These families can save if they new how to keep house !!! Yes I live next door to them, yes it's hard work in the fields AT TIMES, as they are not always planting and harvesting. Do you live in the city???? have you been watching the recent foreigner working in Thai =T.V. documentaries, thought so.

[OzMick]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

I don't know about the US but there is NOTHING in Australia cheaper than in Thailand, with the possible exception of items imported into this country. Many of the price problems Thais are facing are a direct result of economic woes exported from the US - should the Thais start selling houses to people who can't afford them and follow the US into the garbage disposal?

[animatic]

Punish the middle men and pass more down the line to the workers,

not raise prices wholesale in one swoop by a blanket unsustainable pay hike.

This is not to say I don't want better pay for the poor, not at all,

it means to gradually ramp up minimum wage over a moderate period while

nailing the profetteers, who take the lions share from the products grown by the poor

One way also might be to install and PROTECT farmers Co-ops in many regions,

let the farmers sell direct to the end market, and then let the market pay the

millers themselves, AFTER fair price purchase from the Co-ops.

Oh. I can hear the howling from the middlemen already.

Every time the farmers try for a co-op their leaders get beaten or killed by thugs of vested interests, but if the government sets them up, but lets them have local autonomy and global protection, we can see this working much better than a blanket minimum wage in all sectors.

Edited July 14, 2011 by animatic

[exbelg]

I suggest the government uses the 46 billion baht seized from mr T. until it is all gone and yingluck will withdraw immediatly her demand as there will be no more loot...

[gregb]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

History will show you that the way you narrow the gap is by bringing the wealthy down to the level of the poor. Too often people think this works the other way.

That is not to say I don't agree we should do it. There are many social benefits, including a much more stable society, less envy and animosity between the citizens, etc. The way I would recommend to fix the wealth gap is by abandoning capitalism and embracing distributism. Heavily tax every industry above the minimum size necessary to function. All department stores, grocery stores, 7-11 etc. will go away. The country can get by on mom and pop shops and local community supported establishments. We don't need the labor efficiencies of large corporations. We need full employment more egalitarian options.

The purpose of this is not to make everyone rich and wealthy. Human nature doesn't allow for that, especially not now with soaring energy prices. But a nation built on distributist philosophies would allow resiliency in the face of the coming energy decline and industrial collapse. It would reduce the discontent in the population and be more peaceful in general. And by outlawing corporations and multinationals associated with terminal stages of capitalism, there would be little concentration of wealth in the hands of extremely rich merchants.

No, its not ideal, but it is possible. The existing proposals that I see, the ones with an idea of forcing structures that are designed to concentrate wealth to distribute wealth instead, are doomed to failure. Any effect will be transient if it can be seen at all.

[ericthai]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

History will show you that the way you narrow the gap is by bringing the wealthy down to the level of the poor. Too often people think this works the other way.

That is not to say I don't agree we should do it. There are many social benefits, including a much more stable society, less envy and animosity between the citizens, etc. The way I would recommend to fix the wealth gap is by abandoning capitalism and embracing distributism. Heavily tax every industry above the minimum size necessary to function. All department stores, grocery stores, 7-11 etc. will go away. The country can get by on mom and pop shops and local community supported establishments. We don't need the labor efficiencies of large corporations. We need full employment more egalitarian options.

The purpose of this is not to make everyone rich and wealthy. Human nature doesn't allow for that, especially not now with soaring energy prices. But a nation built on distributist philosophies would allow resiliency in the face of the coming energy decline and industrial collapse. It would reduce the discontent in the population and be more peaceful in general. And by outlawing corporations and multinationals associated with terminal stages of capitalism, there would be little concentration of wealth in the hands of extremely rich merchants.

No, its not ideal, but it is possible. The existing proposals that I see, the ones with an idea of forcing structures that are designed to concentrate wealth to distribute wealth instead, are doomed to failure. Any effect will be transient if it can be seen at all.

Not sure your idea would work. With all the multinationals pushed out and big business closed down, where do all the people that worked for these companies get jobs? Ford, chevy, Toyota, BMW etc all gone and the thousands of workers that worked for them, they do what? go home and grow rice? All the 7-11, Big C workers where do they go, work in a mom and pop shop? i think these is a big flaw in your plan. Or maybe Im missing something.

Now to increase the minimum wage and the posters here that agree to that, do you realize that now all the poor farmers that need some extra help on their farms are now going to have to pay 300B a day instead of 170B or 190B or whatever they are paying, or they are not going to hire anyone and just pay the guy with the combine to come in and harvest. Increasing to 300B per day is not just going to effect the big business it will effect the farmers and the workers. The guy (or i should say girl) that used to work each harvest for the neighbors rice field will now be out of a job as the guy will use a tractor instead of paying the high labor that he cant afford for the low price he gets for rice. A big increase in minimum wage does not fix anything. A few posters are talking about the USA and minimum wage there, yes it's high and so is the cost of living. When I was working, minimum wage was only $3.10 per hour, a loaf of bread $0.30 now minimum wage is i believe the guy said $7.$$ something and a loaf of bread is what $1.50 Minimum wage little more than double but the loaf of bread about 5 times as much, costs of wages goes up it effects everything.

just my 2 cents worth.

[55Jay]

Very interesting stuff. I'm no economist but what's the solution? It all seems so linked together - do one thing, impacts something else, diagramed out by smart people who end up talking themselves out of everything because it will negatively impact something else.

Seems so upside down that the solution to throw another couple dollars to the poor guy will always have this doomsday result on a global scale; so the folks at the bottom of the pyramid always end up screwed. Never at the top or middle, they carry on same same, making ominous predictions about doing this or that will make us charge more, etc. and hope like hell the election season ends soon = nothing ever changes.

Is Thailand destined to remain as it is?

Edited July 14, 2011 by 55Jay

[btsfreak]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

History will show you that the way you narrow the gap is by bringing the wealthy down to the level of the poor. Too often people think this works the other way.

That is not to say I don't agree we should do it. There are many social benefits, including a much more stable society, less envy and animosity between the citizens, etc. The way I would recommend to fix the wealth gap is by abandoning capitalism and embracing distributism. Heavily tax every industry above the minimum size necessary to function. All department stores, grocery stores, 7-11 etc. will go away. The country can get by on mom and pop shops and local community supported establishments. We don't need the labor efficiencies of large corporations. We need full employment more egalitarian options.

The purpose of this is not to make everyone rich and wealthy. Human nature doesn't allow for that, especially not now with soaring energy prices. But a nation built on distributist philosophies would allow resiliency in the face of the coming energy decline and industrial collapse. It would reduce the discontent in the population and be more peaceful in general. And by outlawing corporations and multinationals associated with terminal stages of capitalism, there would be little concentration of wealth in the hands of extremely rich merchants.

No, its not ideal, but it is possible. The existing proposals that I see, the ones with an idea of forcing structures that are designed to concentrate wealth to distribute wealth instead, are doomed to failure. Any effect will be transient if it can be seen at all.

It would work, if first priority of the people would not be consumer goods, but strive for happiness not through consuming. Do you see that anywhere in Thailand? Do you see that anwhere in the world? Well, that is why it is not happening.

[whybother]

Very interesting stuff. I'm no economist but what's the solution? It all seems so linked together - do one thing, impacts something else, diagramed out by smart people who end up talking themselves out of everything because it will negatively impact something else.

Seems so upside down that the solution to throw another couple dollars to the poor guy will always have this doomsday result on a global scale; so the folks at the bottom of the pyramid always end up screwed. Never at the top or middle, they carry on same same, making ominous predictions about doing this or that will make us charge more, etc. and hope like hell the election season ends soon = nothing ever changes.

Is Thailand destined to remain as it is?

Just last week, minimum wages were raised.

Generally, there isn't a problem with raising minimum wages. The problem with PTP's plan is they want to raise it by 40-70%.

In most countries, minimum wage increases are usually included with productivity increases. Does the PTP have a plan that includes how productivity can be increased by the wage rises that they are proposing ... or even by a quarter of that?

[ToffeEFCpower]

What's the issue here? As far as I can see things are moving along nicely and according to plan.

1. Tell the voters a load of crap to secure their vote.

2. Increase Bangkok wage to 300 baht.

3. Attract more red shirt countryfolk to Bkk in search of higher wages, thus increasing the red population in Bkk and eventually command it.

[richard_smith237]

Wifey tells me they have done a subtle turn around and offered the minimum salary increase to B300 for only a few jobs (not sure which).

[Ricardo]

Wifey tells me they have done a subtle turn around and offered the minimum salary increase to B300 for only a few jobs (not sure which).

Yes, PTP were still saying a national-rate post-election, while Thaksin just announced that it only applies in Bangkok. This after the voters have been fooled by it, and cast their votes, is immoral & wrong IMO.

It also clashes with Thaksin's claim to want to help the poor, you don't do that by paying the city-folks better than the Isarn country-people, that simply maintains the current divide & resentment & pressure to move to Bangkok for better money (and higher living-costs).

[timberboy]

If Baht 215 for a days work in the rice fields or factories is such a fair deal, why don't some of you yo-yo's take these jobs. Working for less than $10 per day at this hard labor is a joke and insult to the Thai Nation.

If International Companies move to Thailand to exploit the thai labor force they have no HONOR! These are human beings and deserve a fair wage for a fair days work. Just because people are born into poverty

doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated as equals. My father told me when I was a child that no man, Not even the President of the United States was a better man than I just because of his title or power or wealth!

Yea i understand your point. But they are telling people that they will increase the minimum wage. And unless they have the foresight to understand a little simple economics, PRICES for everything will have to increase accordingly to offset the wage increases. So, what are they really gaining ? Higher prices for the food and other staples they need?

As far as your complaint about international companies "investing" in Thailand. I dont think you need to worry about it. The ex- prime minister living in Dubai owns many Thai companies, and he is paying those same low wages also, and his family is reaping the benefits. So maybe you should ask that Thai billionaire businessman to have some honor and pay the people bettter, instead of getting on your soapbox and complain about the evil foreigners. Besides ,they are having most products made in China these days, so dont worry about them coming to Thailand, its cheaper to make things in China.

[timberboy]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

I don't know about the US but there is NOTHING in Australia cheaper than in Thailand, with the possible exception of items imported into this country. Many of the price problems Thais are facing are a direct result of economic woes exported from the US - should the Thais start selling houses to people who can't afford them and follow the US into the garbage disposal?

Dont worry about Thais buying houses. They will be spending their wage increase on the increased prices for food and other staples. Anyone will a lick of common sense understands that. Just a ploy to get votes from people that are uninformed.

[timberboy]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

History will show you that the way you narrow the gap is by bringing the wealthy down to the level of the poor. Too often people think this works the other way.

That is not to say I don't agree we should do it. There are many social benefits, including a much more stable society, less envy and animosity between the citizens, etc. The way I would recommend to fix the wealth gap is by abandoning capitalism and embracing distributism. Heavily tax every industry above the minimum size necessary to function. All department stores, grocery stores, 7-11 etc. will go away. The country can get by on mom and pop shops and local community supported establishments. We don't need the labor efficiencies of large corporations. We need full employment more egalitarian options.

The purpose of this is not to make everyone rich and wealthy. Human nature doesn't allow for that, especially not now with soaring energy prices. But a nation built on distributist philosophies would allow resiliency in the face of the coming energy decline and industrial collapse. It would reduce the discontent in the population and be more peaceful in general. And by outlawing corporations and multinationals associated with terminal stages of capitalism, there would be little concentration of wealth in the hands of extremely rich merchants.

No, its not ideal, but it is possible. The existing proposals that I see, the ones with an idea of forcing structures that are designed to concentrate wealth to distribute wealth instead, are doomed to failure. Any effect will be transient if it can be seen at all.

So , when do you plan to bring the "harmonius society"? Do i smell a little communist ideoolgy? Well that would never work in Thailand, unless there was a revolution. And your idea of taxing large corporations, will just tax them out of the country to ANY neighboring country where they wont be over taxed. You want to go backward to mom n pop stores? sounds like you want to go back in history. Your idea sounds good in theory. But it wont happen in reality. Cause there will always be rich and poor, the whole world is like that. To think otherwise is just dreaming.

Edited July 14, 2011 by timberboy

[YellowFeverCAD]

Narrowing the gap is a good thing, rising inflation and unemployment isn't. A sudden nationwide increase of the minimum wage to 300 baht will create more problems than it solves and ironically, might make the gap even wider.

I am shocked at how many of the "educated" westerners that can't seem to grasp this. You can't simply put up wages and magically that money appears from newly planted money trees. It has to come from somewhere and as it comes from the bottom line of the employer that means IF they leave their staff levels the same it will increase their costs by quite a bit in BKK. So all those pimping this huge increase seem to think those business owners will just grin and bear it? Not bloody likely... hello increased unemployment...

[Crushdepth]

Narrowing the gap is a good thing, rising inflation and unemployment isn't. A sudden nationwide increase of the minimum wage to 300 baht will create more problems than it solves and ironically, might make the gap even wider.

I am shocked at how many of the "educated" westerners that can't seem to grasp this. You can't simply put up wages and magically that money appears from newly planted money trees. It has to come from somewhere and as it comes from the bottom line of the employer that means IF they leave their staff levels the same it will increase their costs by quite a bit in BKK. So all those pimping this huge increase seem to think those business owners will just grin and bear it? Not bloody likely... hello increased unemployment...

There is no *practical* mechanism to enforce the wage claim for the vast majority of employees. It was basically a "populist" (aka empty) promise on the part of PTP.

[dutchweller]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

I don't know about the US but there is NOTHING in Australia cheaper than in Thailand, with the possible exception of items imported into this country. Many of the price problems Thais are facing are a direct result of economic woes exported from the US - should the Thais start selling houses to people who can't afford them and follow the US into the garbage disposal?

Dont worry about Thais buying houses. They will be spending their wage increase on the increased prices for food and other staples. Anyone will a lick of common sense understands that. Just a ploy to get votes from people that are uninformed.

Yep and just today at my Hotel the management announced there would be a mandatory 100 jobs cut from the 600 full time staff.

They made sure everyone knew this was a direct result of the possible wage hikes.

Needless to say not so many happy faces at work as there were the day the Reds..Correction PTP won.... the election..

I guess all the unemployed can go home out of BKK and have all the Red villages take good care of them right??

[hellodolly]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

Well I agree with you that the gap should be narrowed but why are you talking about the wages in the states. A Thai could live six months on what the minimum wages in the states pay for rent for a month. I fail to see the connection. Well I guess they are both in the Northern Hemisphere. But beyond that I don't see the connection.

Another thing why do people talk about the farmers. They do all right it is their employes that make 120 baht a day.

[hellodolly]

I realize that this is not the USA. I'm normally pretty conservative but 300 hundred baht per day is barely a livable wage. The minimum wage in the USA varies from state to state with the lowest being $7.20 per hour and the highest being $12.50 per hour. Note that this is per HOUR and not a day. Some food prices in the USA are cheaper than here and some are more expensive. Many US made products are cheaper than similar Thai made products. Many Thai companies make obscene profits at the expense of poorly paid workers. It is past time for Thailand to raise the standard of living for the workers.

The farmers have been cheated for many years by the wealthy middlemen. You may or may not know that the middlemen rarely or never pay the support price for farm products. They usually use the excuse that their quota is filled and that they don't need any more product unless the farmers accept a lower price.

The gap between the haves and have nots definitely needs to be narrowed. This is a first step to narrowing the HUGE gap.

History will show you that the way you narrow the gap is by bringing the wealthy down to the level of the poor. Too often people think this works the other way.

That is not to say I don't agree we should do it. There are many social benefits, including a much more stable society, less envy and animosity between the citizens, etc. The way I would recommend to fix the wealth gap is by abandoning capitalism and embracing distributism. Heavily tax every industry above the minimum size necessary to function. All department stores, grocery stores, 7-11 etc. will go away. The country can get by on mom and pop shops and local community supported establishments. We don't need the labor efficiencies of large corporations. We need full employment more egalitarian options.

The purpose of this is not to make everyone rich and wealthy. Human nature doesn't allow for that, especially not now with soaring energy prices. But a nation built on distributist philosophies would allow resiliency in the face of the coming energy decline and industrial collapse. It would reduce the discontent in the population and be more peaceful in general. And by outlawing corporations and multinationals associated with terminal stages of capitalism, there would be little concentration of wealth in the hands of extremely rich merchants.

No, its not ideal, but it is possible. The existing proposals that I see, the ones with an idea of forcing structures that are designed to concentrate wealth to distribute wealth instead, are doomed to failure. Any effect will be transient if it can be seen at all.

Can you explain this a little bit to me.

"And by outlawing corporations and multinationals associated with terminal stages of capitalism, there would be little concentration of wealth in the hands of extremely rich merchants."

I don't see where it would change any thing other than geography. There would still be a concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. The difference being they would not be in Thailand and there by raising the unemployed rate in Thailand. I see no advantage in that. It would just widen the gap.