Falling Tone

[KunMatt]

This may be a bit late in asking this but the Falling Tone confuses me the most. It always sounds high to me compared to Mid tones, so I have just one, maybe obvious, question - where does the falling tone start from?

If it starts High and falls to midtone then that explains a lot and makes sense as to why it always sounds like a High tone to me. But if it starts at mid tone and falls to a low tone then I am still lost with it!!

[AyG]

Starts high. Falls almost to low.

However, I suggest that rather than thinking of tones like this, think whether they move or not. (Be careful with the high tone, though, because on long vowels this dips slightly then rises even higher.)

[KunMatt]

Thanks!! This is a Eureka moment for me. I assumed it was supposed to be from Mid to Low which is why I was always confused when it sounded higher than a normal mid tone word.

So, for completeness, what about Rising tone? To me that sounds like Mid to High, but like you say, I just listen for the tone movement instead of the level, but it would be good to know what it really is though.

[AyG]

Rising tone basically starts low, then rises to high. However, it actually starts a little bit higher than low, then dips to low before rising.

You might find http://thai-language.com/ref/tones useful. It has samples of each tone. Try listening and copying until you get the hang of it.

[sourcherry]

I believe in a rapid speech, high-to-low and mid-to-low alternate each other.

[luteplayer1981]

Rising tone basically starts low, then rises to high. However, it actually starts a little bit higher than low, then dips to low before rising.

You might find http://thai-language.com/ref/tones useful. It has samples of each tone. Try listening and copying until you get the hang of it.

Re: realization of the high tone and the explanation on the thai-language.com website

While there is an interesting note on the thai-language site about a variant pronunciation of the falling tone when it is on a syllable with a short vowel length and non-sonorant ending (i.e. dead syllable) there is nothing on the 'allotone' of the high tone. In fact, the so-called high tone does also seem to have a variant realization which depends on its environment for which reason I refer to it as an 'allotone'( its use does not change the meaning of the word from that of the other form of the high tone). When a syllable ends in a sonorant consonant or vowel , excluding the glottal stop which is equivalent in Thai to a non-sonorant consonant for tonal determination purposes, the sonorant part of the syllable, or rhyme, then is long, so allowing more time for a long contoured tone. Thus, the high tone on an open syllable or a closed syllable with sonorant consonant ending e.g. n, m, ng, w,y, is realized as high and rising, i.e, it starts above the F0 of the mid-tone and perceptibly rises to a very high peak formant value. On the contrary, with a high tone on a syllable that has a short vowel and non-sonorant consonant ending (including glottal stop finals), there is insufficient time for an extended rising contour so the 'rise' of the high tone is minimal in comparison to that of the high tone on an open syllable or one ending in a sonorant consonant. The thai-language website fails to mention this allotone of the high tone.

This high-rising variety of the high tone in fact could be considered the 'underlying form' of the high tone on the basis of its higher frequency of occurrence while it could be argued the short minimal rising high tone is the allotone. Whatever the case, the high-rising tone can be observed in comparison with a falling-rising tone on an identical syllable on the word for horse ' maa- h'; and dog ' maa -falling-rising', where the length of the contours are similar and unlike that of a dead syllable.

See the Peter Ladefoged 'A Course in Phonetics' site for realization of the Thai tones with formant values, for an example of the high (rising) tone on an open syllable here http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter10/thai/thai.html