I've been denied entry to Thailand - Now What ! ?

[4nr]

Ive been employed for the last two years as a full time employee. However, things are going pear-shaped.

The Managing Director (also a foreigner) has basically decamped from Thailand with his family to a neighboring country. Since this happened, he has basically stuck his head in the sand / ignored anything going on with the business here as much as possible.

My work permit is going to expire very soon, and no effort is being made to renew it, so I am preparing for the worst. I realize that my annual extension will expire when my work permit expires, so I already have a plan for my visa status / staying legal in Thailand.

I'm wondering if anyone else has ever been in this situation. I have received no actual written termination notice, I'm guessing that he believes the expiring work permit is sufficient enough. However, since I am a full time employee with no contract, I believe I should be eligible for notice and severance pay. Can anyone confirm this for me?

I have also learned from our part-time accountant that my income tax payments have not been paid for several months. As part of the head in the sand routine, the MD isn't submitting any of the monthly payments for VAT, Social security, taxes, etc. I'm not an accountant so I don't know the extent and all of the payments involved, except that none of it is happening. Anybody know what the law is in this regard? Should he not be deducting these from my salary and submitting them? Who is ultimately responsible? Will the Thai revenue department come after me if he doesn't submit them?

Would sure like to hear from other people who have been in this situation or have other advice to offer.

[gregb]

Yes, you are effectively fired when your work permit expires and is not renewed. No, it does not count as notice unless you have a contract with a specific date. Yes, you are eligible for severance.

However, it sounds to me like the company is about ready to go broke and close up shop. I suspect they will laugh in your face at any request for severance, and in several months when you could get a judgement through the labour court there will most likely be nothing of the company left to attach.

I would say you are SOL in this case, and you should should start calling in sick alot and spending your time at work doing nothing but looking for a new job. You should speak to them about severance immediately though and make sure they know you will expect this on the day after your work permit expires. This is what you are due if the company has the money to pay you:

120 days - 1 year : 1 month salary

1 year - 3 years: 3 months salary

3 years - 6 years: 6 months salary

6 years - 10 years: 8 months salary

More than 10 years: 10 months salary

So in theory you are due 3 months salary plus the current month because the failed to give proper notice plus pay for any unused holidays.

BTW, you are still responsible for income taxes if the company has not paid them. Social security is their problem. If they deducted them from your salary and didn't pay, you can sue them. But again, if they're broke, it's not going to do you much good. Many lawyers will tell you they can attach the personal assets of the company directors in this case. Don't believe them. Once they have your money you will find out the truth and you won't like it.

[4nr]

Hi Greg,

Thanks for taking the time to reply in detail. You confirmed everything that I thought, and you're pretty much on the mark about the company. I'm sure the MD doesn't care about things anymore and would be happiest if the company died and went away.

He came to Thailand several months ago and sold off most of his stuff, without so much as a word to me or the staff. A lot of the Thai staff lost faith in him at that point, and have resigned / moved on to greener fields. I'm fully prepared to be "SOL" as you so aptly put it.

Even though I realize that there aren't any real assets beyond some office furniture and computers, I'm wondering what would happen if I did file a complaint with the labour board. I know he set up the company through a well known "business consultant / lawyers / visa service" here in Bangkok, and that they assisted him with finding the 51% Thai directors. Could he simply deflect the issue off to them? I'm not as interested in pissing them off as I am in getting what is due from him.

Even though he has decamped, he does come back here occasionally. He tells his wife that he is coming here on company business, but spends his time paying golf and the "19th hole". didn't even call us or come to the office on his last trip.

If there was an outstanding case at the labour board, would they prevent him from leaving Thailand until it is resolved? Being away from his wife / family and new company for a protracted period whilst at the mercy of the Thai courts might motivate him to settle the situation!

Appreciate any opinion or advice from you or anyone else!

[TerryLH]

You might think about contacting the Social Security Office about the non payments. If they were deducted from you and not paid, the'll contact the employer about it.

If you go three months (may be 6) without payments being made you are out of the system and have to start over.

You can arrange to make payments on your own with no employment. 432B per month.

[4nr]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the reply.

I've been considering this, but the company has never issued me a proper "pay slip", so I don't know how I could explain / prove to the Social Security people.

I've been considering lots of other Machiavellian ways to mess with this guy. The Social security department, the revenue department etc would probably all be interested!

I am intrigued by what you said about making the social security payments on my own with no employment. What's the benefit to that? Basic medical coverage in a big emergency / accident?

[harrry]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the reply.

I've been considering this, but the company has never issued me a proper "pay slip", so I don't know how I could explain / prove to the Social Security people.

I've been considering lots of other Machiavellian ways to mess with this guy. The Social security department, the revenue department etc would probably all be interested!

I am intrigued by what you said about making the social security payments on my own with no employment. What's the benefit to that? Basic medical coverage in a big emergency / accident?

The Social security is the important part. It entitles you to care at nominated public and private hospitals at quite a reasonable level, this includes most medicines and can be kept if you have been paying it for a year by paying about 500 a month yourself. A real bargain.

[TerryLH]

OP, do you have a Social Security card? If you do, you'll be in their computer. They can tell when/what payments have been made.

The health benefits, as Harrry mentioned, are pretty good. Much more than major events or accidents.

It covers in and out patient care for almost everything. Meds, minor/major surgery +++. It also doesn't exclude pre-existing conditions.

Once you quit paying through employment you have 6 months to sign up to pay on your own. The office staff here in KKC were very helpful with info ect. Very simple to sign up.

During the 6 months after you quit paying/being eligible, you can still get the benefits.

Good luck with this.

[4nr]

Hi Terry,

No, I don't have a card. Or, if I do, it was never given to me. However, it wouldn't surprise me if this is something else the employer never did.

I've been reading about this, and trying to make sense of it. Is it correct that it is mandatory for the employer to enroll / pay this on my behalf?

[harrry]

Hi Terry,

No, I don't have a card. Or, if I do, it was never given to me. However, it wouldn't surprise me if this is something else the employer never did.

I've been reading about this, and trying to make sense of it. Is it correct that it is mandatory for the employer to enroll / pay this on my behalf?

yes

If you are a teacher in a private school you are not covered though.

Edited August 8, 2011 by harrry

[4nr]

Hi Harrry, thanks for the reply.

No- I'm not a teacher. I'm in a totally different business. I don't want to specify exactly because I know that the MD is a Thaivisa poster.

If I find out that the company didn't enroll / pay Social Security on my behalf, will I end up being responsible for this too?

[beano2274]

If you can pay yourself it is not 500baht but 432baht per month, as that is what I pay.

It allows you to go for basic medical treatment at Hospitals.

[4nr]

Hi Beano,

Thanks for adding to my topic.

The 432 per month is the same as indicated by TerryLH above, and this is definitely a "must do". Damned cheap for what it is and provides.

However, I wonder what will happen when I go to apply for it if my employer hasn't been paying it up to now. Will I still be eligible? fortunately I'm old enough to be retiring after this, so still valid for me on a retirement visa?

Edited August 8, 2011 by 4nr

[harrry]

Social security requires that you have held it for a year before you can get it yourself. I really think you may have to go to talk at the labor court. It sounds as if you already know that there is little likelyhood of continued employment. You can only gain from it. You have a lot to lose if you do not.

[4nr]

Indeed Harrry. The chance of employment is definitely dwindling. I'm now about 10 days from the expiry date, so I can't imagine the company getting it together in a hurry. Doesn't break my heart in the slightest.

However, the continued Social Security benefit is definitely too good to lose. If I can find out that the company has broken the law by not enrolling / paying in my Social Security, this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and sends me on the warpath to the social security office. I wanted to do this gracefully, but if this is the case everyone else can be damned.

I really don't know for sure what the status is though, because I've never received a pay-slip of any kind to explain what is being paid and deducted. Should I be receiving a pay-slip every pay period?

I'll try calling the accountant lady tomorrow and try to sweet talk her, but don't know if she will be helpful or not because I guess a lot of this could impact her too if it gets right down to it, and I know she hasn't been getting paid - hence the stoppage of accounting and payments.

Thanks to all who have replied. Great information from everyone to help me figure out what to do / prepare for the worst.

[TerryLH]

"I really don't know for sure what the status is though, because I've never received a pay-slip of any kind to explain what is being paid and deducted."

You should be able to figure it out.

Do you know what your monthly salary is?

What is the difference between that and what you actually get?

Have you been paying taxes each year?

Is that amount the same as the difference between your gross and net?

If it is, nothing was deducted for Social Security.

If that figure isn't the same, does it come to 750 baht a month? That would be for Social Security.

You should have been getting a form from your employer each year to use for taxes. It should show gross, and any deductions that were made for withholding tax and Social Security.

You would need that form to file Form 91 (Personal Taxes) with the Revenue Dept.

If you find that nothing was deducted for social Security, all may not be lost.

The social security Office can require the employer to pay all back amounts due. They can also require them to pay your half, as well as their own half.(750 + 750 baht per month)

If it was me, I'd contact them as soon as I could.

Good luck with all of this.