Would A Work Permit Be Required For This?

[DEVATSAR]

My friend is coming to Thailand shorltly and asked a question to which I have no idea as to the "right answer" (if there is one)

If he was to supply food to a shop (thai restaruant) which was been made by a thai national here in Pattaya would that be considered as working, he will take NO part in the production of the product, he will not be delivering it. He will be paying for the making of the product by the thai worker.

[Soutpeel]

No doesnt need a WP, in this case it appears the person concerned is mearly an "investor".....same as the farang husbands in Isaan "invests" in a house and car in their teeraks name..... .....no different..

[DEVATSAR]

No doesnt need a WP, in this case it appears the person concerned is mearly an "investor".....same as the farang husbands in Isaan "invests" in a house and car in their teeraks name..... .....no different..

Many thanks for that info i will inform him !

Cheers

Paul

[nam-thip]

From what i understand and i did hold a work permit for many years is that your friend could be considered as working under Thai law and if some jealous Thai reports him to immigration he will find it difficult to explain his way out of what might be a deportation order.

He's entering a mine field.

An immigration officer once told me that any type of connection to a business can be construed as working.

Example: A foreigner buys a bar in his Thai ladies name, most evenings he sits in the bar drinking with customers whilst at the same time keeping an eye on business, according to the immigration officer under Thai law he is considered to be working but a blind eye (brown envelopes)is turned until such times as he starts to move ash trays, stock the bar, bring in empty beer bottles, M/T the till, that's when the shit can hit the fan.

Example: I once drove my lady to Udon Thani to a factory to buy clothing to sell at the market. When the truck was fully loaded she asked me not to drive as it could be considered as working. On the return journey she told me a remark had been made about me 'working' from one of the factory sales staff.

It's a very fine line.

You say he'll deliver the goods to an outlet, if that is the case then he is working as a delivery driver!!

Edited August 9, 2011 by nam-thip

[Mario2008]

The OP clearly states that the person will not be delivering it, only paying for it.

If he finances the food, that is just investing and not working. If he goes along to the shop and pays for it, it is indeed not so clear if it couldn't be considered as working.

[Soutpeel]

You say he'll deliver the goods to an outlet, if that is the case then he is working as a delivery driver!!

The OP said "he will not be delivering it"...

The OP also said....."He will be paying for the making of the product by the thai worker" and "he will take NO part in the production of the product,"

Example

Mr Old age pensioner moves to Thailand and gets a leather sofa made for his teenage teerak in Isaan.....is he working ?......this is no different from what the OP intends

Based on the written info, I dont believe what OP's friend intends to do is working

Your example of the farang owning the bar has absolutely no relevance and further, if the farang owned the bar in the Thai ladies name, and he plays no part in operating the bar, but sits with the customers and thats all he does he is not breaking any law, and doesnt need a WP for being an owner/shareholder, so therefore would not need to pass any "little brown envelopes to anybody...circumstances would change however if he did start playing an active role in the bar...ie the examples you give....then yes would be considered working..

[Soutpeel]

An immigration officer once told me that any type of connection to a business can be construed as working.

Well the immigration officer is talking through his bottom....If I walk into MacDonalds and buy a hamburger, at that point in time I am connected to that business....am I working ?

Even shareholders in Thai company who play absolutely no role in the operation of said business do not need WP's, the minute they do play a role, even signing a document in Thailand could be construed as work and then yes a WP is required..

[DEVATSAR]

Many thanks for all the info,

What ie reaaly happeng as Titanim said, is that he will be INVESTING in a bussiness albiet small!

He wiil never deliver, serve behind the counter or ever drink in the place, You can see how muddy the waters are when this qustions was raised. is there a definive anwer,( ie 100 percent guarenteed correct), people have there own perception of work really

If I enter lots in an auction in Pattya on regular basis after buying from a junk shops for say 1000 baht then sell the item at same auction for 1500 baht is that that condidered working ??

Thats a point worth raising !! I even pick up the items and put tmen into the auction AM I WORKING ?/

Intersting to see replies!

Cheers

Paul

[jdinasia]

The OP clearly states that the person will not be delivering it, only paying for it.

If he finances the food, that is just investing and not working. If he goes along to the shop and pays for it, it is indeed not so clear if it couldn't be considered as working.

If he makes the contacts, sales, advises ...... etc etc ...

[Soutpeel]

Many thanks for all the info,

What ie reaaly happeng as Titanim said, is that he will be INVESTING in a bussiness albiet small!

He wiil never deliver, serve behind the counter or ever drink in the place, You can see how muddy the waters are when this qustions was raised. is there a definive anwer,( ie 100 percent guarenteed correct), people have there own perception of work really

If I enter lots in an auction in Pattya on regular basis after buying from a junk shops for say 1000 baht then sell the item at same auction for 1500 baht is that that condidered working ??

Thats a point worth raising !! I even pick up the items and put tmen into the auction AM I WORKING ?/

Intersting to see replies!

Cheers

Paul

If he is investing and not playing an active role in the business then the answer is definitive...he is not working...doesnt need a WP

On the auction question..interesting one, but believe this could interpreted as working

[Soutpeel]

The OP clearly states that the person will not be delivering it, only paying for it.

If he finances the food, that is just investing and not working. If he goes along to the shop and pays for it, it is indeed not so clear if it couldn't be considered as working.

If he makes the contacts, sales, advises ...... etc etc ...

Now we delve into Non-imm B "doing business" and not so much WP's per se.

Based on discussions with immigration over the years:

If the person visits Thailand for business discussions/meetings (and suppose you could include the items you have mentioned) conducts his business and leaves Thailand...ie he is not resident in Thailand, then WP not required only Non-imm B

If person lives in Thailand and does as above then working..needs a WP

Of course this is an interpretation of 1 immigration offical, granted quite high up in the food chain for only 1 official

[DEVATSAR]

Chers Titatium,

Very intersting !

Many thanks for replying to my questions,

Im sure i will have !!

[saengsureeya]

Example

Mr Old age pensioner moves to Thailand and gets a leather sofa made for his teenage teerak in Isaan.....is he working ?......this is no different from what the OP intends

Soutpeel, it's just a grey area with a disputable activity; if the retired guy buys the sofa for his teerak to put it in her bar............is he working? not sure.

If he gives his teerak the money and she buys the sofa...........is he working? Definitely not.

[Soutpeel]

Example

Mr Old age pensioner moves to Thailand and gets a leather sofa made for his teenage teerak in Isaan.....is he working ?......this is no different from what the OP intends

Soutpeel, it's just a grey area with a disputable activity; if the retired guy buys the sofa for his teerak to put it in her bar............is he working? not sure.

If he gives his teerak the money and she buys the sofa...........is he working? Definitely not.

Its not a grey area, with disputed activity...lets simplify your example a little more and cut out teeraks/sofa's and bars

You walk into McDondalds and buy a hamburger.....working or not....No

You walk into Tesco Lotus and buy your weeks worth of Mama Noodles...working or not ? No

You walk into SCB and withdraw some money over the counter or from the ATM....working now as an investment banker ?.....no

If the answer is yes to any of the above...then every non-thai in the country is working illegally.....